So, I'm back. I want to thank all of you who encouraged me to give Ats another chance after struggling with season 1. It took a while for me to finally get into it, but when I did, it was hard to stop watching. Without further ado, my thoughts:
S2: Bit of a rough start I'll admit. I never quite enjoyed the monster of the week episodes on Ats as much as I did on Buffy, which most of the time ended up being my favorite thing about the show, the Scoobies dealing with crazy monsters while balancing life. While I liked the Darla/Dru episodes, especially the ones involving flashbacks, S2 was a tad slow. I loved seeing a new side of Angel, who finally began to grow on me as a character, and the episode where he quietly lets the girls eat half of Wolfram and Hart was great. That said, I started to get truly invested around 2x18. I always liked Lindsey and was sad to see him go, but at least he went out with a bang. Dead End was a fantastic and creepy episode.
Buut then, something magical came about, known as the Pylea arc. In all honesty, those few eps are probably my favorite in the entire show thus far (and I doubt that'll change). Everything I wished the show had more of, this arc provided. Humor, whackiness, cool sets and monsters, an awesome and somewhat out of the box story, it had all the ingredients I craved. At this point I'm getting decent at "Whedon humor" and can usually anticipate what the joke is gonna be, but I still laughed so hard and enjoyed myself a lot. Plus, "Do I put out some kind of com-shok-me vibe?" is most certainly one of the best lines on the Buffyverse, up there with "Horny Giles" lol. Groo, Angel complaining about his hair, Lorne's family, it was all so good I already want to re-watch it and it's only been 2 weeks. Not to mention, this season introduced Lorne and Fred, who quickly became favorites of mine.
I know it ends on a bit of a sour note because of Buffy, but it was probably one of my favorite season finales. I would be happy believing the gang simply went on fighting crime and living on the Hotel forever.
S3: Probably my favorite season overall, at least up until the last few eps. The standalone episodes were more compelling (at least to me) and Darla's pregnancy was super intriguing. Around ep 6 I simply couldn't stop watching. (Plus, Denisof acted his ass out during "Billy" he was straight up terrifying). The middle part of S3 was the most enjoyable. Maybe I'm getting old, but everytime someone held or cooed at the baby (especially Angel) I kinda melted a bit lol. He was adorable and I loved the dynamic it brought the group having to parent and kill monsters at the same time. The scene with Angel and Cordy feeding Connor and talking about buying a boat is probably the cutest thing on the verse'. Honestly, if that wasn't perfect happiness, I don't know what is. My fav episode was probably 3x13, "Waiting in the Wings". The plot was great, I loved the setting and I do very much enjoy Angel and Cordelia as a potential romantic pairing. Of course I always thought DB was attractive, but this is the first time he made me, eh feel things đ. His and Charisma's chemistry is off the charts. I also really liked Fred and Gunn together, at least at this stage. I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of love triangles, so I can't say I loved the Wes-Fred-Charles stuff all that much.
As for Holtz, he was fine. Outside of Glory, I never really connected all that much with Buffyverse villains, but he was okay. I can't say I liked Justine, she grated on me, but luckily she wasn't around very long.
Wesley frustrated the heck out of me, but I do think the direction they took the character was really interesting and very human in a way. I liked his dynamic and relationship with Lilah quite a bit, it wasn't something I was expecting, but it was great.
Connor on the other hand...was an exercise on patience. My silly wish is that he stayed a baby throughout the rest of the show, but I understand having a toddler on set is a nightmare and it would never work. I would've been happier with a Wyatt Halliwell from Charmed type storyline, but I get why the writers went on a different direction. Outside of that, he wasn't as annoying and awful to me as some fans find him. Yes, during S3 I wanted to punch the daylights out of him, (can't say I didn't enjoy Fred tasing him) but he wasn't so bad on S4, just poorly written.
S4: Man, what to say about Season 4? I was very afraid of it being a dumpsterfire seeing the way some people talk about it, (I know others love it, it's just so divisive) but I loved 90% of it. I was happy the monster of the week stuff wasn't as prevalent, and it is probably the most addictive and binge-a-ble of the bunch. The Beast, Angelus, Jasmine, Faith, Dark Wesley, everything worked for me except one thing, and sadly it was a pretty big something (hint, it's male and starts with a C).
Before we get to Connor, I'll touch on the Cordy stuff. For the most part, I didn't have an issue with it. I of course can't know what it was like watching it back in the day when you had no idea what was going on, but a member of the group being possesed by a demon God isn't a bad storyline. It was a little odd at times, in that "Dan Humphrey reacts to Gossip Girl's posts when alone even though he was the one who wrote them" sort of way, but I was intrigued. What I suspect most people don't like about it, is that for all intents and purposes, Cordelia's character meets her grisly end during S3. Had Charisma not been fired and was able to return in S5 as regular Cordy, I think this plotline would've been great. But it is extremely bittersweet to say goodbye to one of the best characters on the show in this manner. I'm left feeling like there is still a lot more that could be explored in regards to Cordy, and I'm really sad the writers couldn't or wouldn't find a way to bring her back in the comics in order to give the fans more time with such a beloved character. I'm also left wondering how the cast felt about this choice. Alas, there is always fanfiction I suppose.
As for Connor, man he sucks. Do I hate him? No, not at all, but considering all the potential storylines that were open for him, what the show settled on wasn't very good. He's never allowed to grow, or have meaningful, evolving relationships with the rest of crew, or even a little side story of his own like what Dawn sometimes gets on Buffy.
I have a lot of sympathy for him because he's just a kid who grew up in a Hell dimention alongside a crazy old man, who was then groomed, gaslighted and assaulted by a God, but the show isn't even interested in exploring his trauma the way it does with Fred's ptsd. Connor is never a character in his own right, he's always someone's sad puppet or an avenue to cause Angel grief and inject drama when there's a spot for it. Even the actor said in an interview how tired he was of Connor's stagnation and tiresome scenes, which always seemed to revolve around Jasmine messing with his head or Angel beating the crap out of him. I wanted to like him, but there was nothing to hold onto in order for me to do so. I'm guessing they mostly wrote him out because the reception to him was very poor, but I wish they made an effort to keep him around and actually give him a proper story and development. He had the potential to be good, if allowed to be.
I think removing the love triangle and finding a workaround Jasmine's birth, alongside with letting Connor bond with Angel and co instead of always remaining an outsider until the very last moment, would've done a lot to bring the fans around (at least the loud ones who hate him). Plus, his last few scenes were a little strange to me. Not entirely sure what they were going for, but at least his last convo with Angel was good.
If I had to choose a favorite episode for this season, it would probably be Spin the Bottle. I didn't like it as much as Tabula Rasa, but it still had some hilarious lines and performances.
"You don't sound irish" (that has to be a meta joke right?) and "I'm rooting for the slave" had me in stiches (ok I feel bad about laughing at that last one, but humor like that doesn't make its way into tv much these days).
Also, off topic, but can someone explain what the hell was going on with Gunn and the panther?
Anyway, as usual I'm sorry I wrote such a long post. I've also read most of the comics, but there is no time to talk about that now. See you after season 5. Also, what's your ranking for the show? (seasons wise).
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Loved reading your thoughts.Â
We have different opinions of the show but thatâs what I found interesting. For example, I much prefer the first half of S2 (itâs my favourite era of the series) and was disappointed that the Darla arc wrapped up prematurely and we ended on Pylea. Eps like Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been, Dear Boy, Darla, Reunion, Reprise and Epiphany are so good.Â
Iâm not a big fan of S3. I think Connor was a mistake overall and didnât enjoy Cangel or the Wes/Fred/Gunn love triangle (we agree on this). I generally preferred the group dynamics far more when they were friendships. I didnât mind Holtz as a villain but the last 3 episodes are a slog for me to get through and peak weirdness, particularly when it comes to Cordyâs characterisation and silly powers. With that said, the S3 has many great moments. I agree that Wesley is frustrating this season.
S4 is a mixed bag for me too but I like many of the things you love about it (The Beast, Faith, Angelus in the cage etc). I think the season is batshit insane and feels like two totally different seasons in one (The Beast era and the Jasmine era) but when itâs good itâs great! Itâs an enjoyable ride anyway, albeit incredibly bogged down by the lore and character baggage.Â
Wonât spoil S5 for you but looking forward to your opinions. If I had to rank the seasons theyâd probably be:
Iâll be very curious if you end up liking S1 more in rewatches. I initially found it a bit boring too but I absolutely love it now. I come to really appreciate the lovely dynamic between Angel/Cordy/Wes, the focus on saving souls as opposed to messy drama, and some of the standalone episodes in the latter half (plus the Faith arc!!).Â
Darla was a great ep. Maybe not as good as Fool for Love, but I grew to like the character a lot. As for rewatches, yeah I think purely for nostalgia's sake, season one would feel differently. Especially now that I've gotten to know Wes and Gunn so well. The story did get better for me after Cordy got the visions and the core group formed. S5 is...different. I've watched the first two eps last night and I'll have to wait and see. Me and change don't always get along and they were clearly going for something really different. (I was also never a huge fan of Spike and Angel together, it was Angelus and his "children" that I enjoyed most on BtVs S2).
Yeah S5 is a pretty abrupt reset. That was in many ways dictated by the network who felt the series had become so serialised and so weighed down by its backstory that it was no longer accessible to new viewers. For the show to be renewed, they pretty much dictated a soft reboot and a return to more of a mix of arc/standalone episodes.
I personally like it as I do actually agree that  by the end of S4 the showâs mythology was like an albatross around its neck. I really felt theyâd written themselves into a corner with Connor and the mythology had got so convoluted and messy that it felt like they were just making it up as they went along (and they were). It felt lost in a way that BtVS never did. So for me S5 was a breath of fresh air in that respect and it felt like there had been a resurgence of creativity again behind the scenes. The episodes feel more structured and distinct again.
But it does come with a price. The tone is pretty different, new sets and different vibes etc. And with the introduction of Spike (also dictated by the network) I can understand why many AtS fans were upset at the time. S5 is a pretty beloved season and many consider it the best of the show (its even a pretty popular opinion to consider it the best of the whole Buffyverse) but there are a subset of AtS fans who dislike it because itâs such a departure from the previous years. Will be interested to see how you feel about it as it progresses.
Itâs Top 3 for me. I wonât say too much as I canât without spoiling, but I think objectively itâs a step up for the show in many ways (production values, episode consistency, a cohesive arc etc). But I will say I miss the showâs original mission statement (âthis is about saving somebodyâs soulâ) and we lose the showâs earlier cozy vibe.Â
Watch season 5 and you'll find out.
I love season 4, the only bad stuff really is Connor and the last few episodes with Jasmine toward the end(but even those eps had some good parts like Fred). But everything else besides it is amazing; the Angelus-Faith arc, The beast-apocalypse story, Lilahs character+W&H, Wesley+his dynamic with Lilah etc so much amazing stuff and people dismiss the season just because of a few bad things at the end. Though I do find it weird how theyâll hate on season 4 but then hype up season 5 when itâs by far the worst and itâs peaks never reach anywhere near the peaks of season 4
Overall, I think I agree, for the most part! Been a while, I'm due for a rewatch!
I just want to applaud you for giving it another go! I kinda get annoyed sometimes at the people who want to say AtS sucks but then won't even watch it; I mean, if they haven't watched, they literally do not know what they're talking about!
I get it; I still prefer BtVS and watch it way more, but I also love AtS. They're different themes: Buffy = growing up is hell & how do you find the strength and will to keep trying; AtS = I have regrets and now that I'm older, how can I make amends so I can stop hating myself?
As an older fan, I relate to both themes.
I'm really glad I did. I got used to tone shift and really come to care about about the characters. Sadly, 2 eps in on S5 and not loving the soft reboot vibes.