To view this from a doylist perspective, If fuffy happened, we probably wouldn't get Willow as a lesbian/Tara unfortunatly. At best, Tara would be a friend that helps Willow with magic in a way that doesn't evoke coming out to a queer identity. We may not get Spike as a scoobie at all, or he'd have a different plotline, (maybe Willow/Spike? or maybe he'd go to Angel sooner)
Faith would instead be going through a redemption arc, and it would probably be a slow burn like Spike's, with Buffy having to grapple with both attraction to a woman and with someone she has been betrayed by. Having two slayers would likely have an impact on the plots going forward and the big bads schemes. Faith I think would bond well with Dawn and probably slot in for Spike there too.
I think you could make good arguments for either. Spike could have functioned as a recurring villain for longer then in canon as we know it, but for the buffyverse I think at a certain point he would have to be killed off or recruited. I think he could have been a relunctant ally in Buffy, maybe have a similar plot to canon but with Willow as a love interest. Vampirism and magic as parallel "addictions" would be interesting. Imagine a Spike/Dark Willow power couple. Or a plot where as Spike wants to be better, Willow falls into darkness.
Alternativly Spike could leave and join Angel early. Maybe being used by Wolfram and Hart as they have some form of control over him, maybe they even threaten to give him his soul back. Spike would of course eventually rebel and get his soul back and could then join Angel Investigations proper (maybe with an arc where Angel turns into Angelous shortly after for the role reversal)
Maybe, but Faith was someone who chose to betray her. She wasn't possesed by a demon due to a curse breaking. Buffy would have less initial sympathy towards her. In addition, the Angel drama in season 3 was provoked by the scoobies distrusting Angel and Angel distrusting and hating himself. Buffy was reluctant to grow close to Angel too, but it was more about her not wanting to get her hopes up about a realtionship that was doomed to fail.
The scoobies would still distrust Faith....but they distrusted Spike, too. Meanwhile, Faith's self-hatred is a different beast from Angel's. In practice, it would be more likely to resemble an altered Spike/Buffy than Angel/Buffy. With the added wrinkles of being a lesbian ship and ya know, Faith having a different personality than Spike and Angel. I think it would feel a lot different than either.
Faith would get her redemption in Buffy rather than Angel, but it should take until Season 6 at least so she could continue being an antagonist. Maybe she would wake up from the coma only in S6, and would try to protect Sunnydale in Buffy's absence while also struggling with her dark urges, then later tempt Buffy into the "darkness". In that way it would be similar to her relationship with Spike.
As for an out of universe point of view I don't think they would've made the main character a lesbian.
I kinda feel like it would be a lovers to enemies esque story in all honesty. Basically what we got in Season 3 irl but with Buffy reciprocating, lots more riffing on the "slayer as homosexuality" metaphor that we got with Buffy's "coming out" to Joyce in Season 2, none of the Xander stuff (less to make it cleaner and more as the show never really entertained the idea of bisexuality) and the high potential that Faith flat out dies during Graduation Day for a fourth slayer (because this is the Buffyverse and entering a relationship is a pathway to death)
The idea presented here of Faith awakening in Season 6 is fun though. I could see that taking the place of Amy's return in this scenario - Faith awakening right as Buffy hits her lowest depressive point and having that dark messy Spuffy arc.
It wouldn't make sense. Spike tried to rape Buffy, and that's what caused him to change. Faith did rape Xander, Buffy and Riley and felt zero remorse. If a piece of shit character like her didn't change from doing rape numbers that would put her in the same big leagues as Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein, then what makes you think they need this big redemption through a relationship with the main character?
I just don't think she should have been in the finale. She didn't add anything. She felt extremely shoe horned. Last we see of her, she attempted to kill Buffy. Then she runs away for like 3 years, and then they try to show the good side of her? If they couldn't do that, they shouldn't have attempted it. It was extremely sloppy.
I mean, S7’s entire storyline pretty much directly related to her. The First was trying to wipe out the whole Slayer line and Faith was the only other active Slayer in the world. It would’ve been frankly really weird if she wasn’t included so I don’t get you saying her inclusion was shoehorned in.
Her character spanned both shows. It’s inevitable you’re going to miss huge chunks of her development if you didn’t watch AtS.
How do fuffy shippers get over the facts that Faith was an unrepentant killer, basically raped Xander and tried to kill him, was a Big Bad's henchman, stole Buffy's body and had sex with her boyfriend AND YET think Buffy would want anything romantically to do with her? The bitch was a psychopath.
The Buffy verse I do not know. But my obsessed little queer heart would never have recovered.
To view this from a doylist perspective, If fuffy happened, we probably wouldn't get Willow as a lesbian/Tara unfortunatly. At best, Tara would be a friend that helps Willow with magic in a way that doesn't evoke coming out to a queer identity. We may not get Spike as a scoobie at all, or he'd have a different plotline, (maybe Willow/Spike? or maybe he'd go to Angel sooner)
Faith would instead be going through a redemption arc, and it would probably be a slow burn like Spike's, with Buffy having to grapple with both attraction to a woman and with someone she has been betrayed by. Having two slayers would likely have an impact on the plots going forward and the big bads schemes. Faith I think would bond well with Dawn and probably slot in for Spike there too.
thanks for your reply. is it likely that Spike would been a villain or a reluctant ally?
I think you could make good arguments for either. Spike could have functioned as a recurring villain for longer then in canon as we know it, but for the buffyverse I think at a certain point he would have to be killed off or recruited. I think he could have been a relunctant ally in Buffy, maybe have a similar plot to canon but with Willow as a love interest. Vampirism and magic as parallel "addictions" would be interesting. Imagine a Spike/Dark Willow power couple. Or a plot where as Spike wants to be better, Willow falls into darkness.
Alternativly Spike could leave and join Angel early. Maybe being used by Wolfram and Hart as they have some form of control over him, maybe they even threaten to give him his soul back. Spike would of course eventually rebel and get his soul back and could then join Angel Investigations proper (maybe with an arc where Angel turns into Angelous shortly after for the role reversal)
When you lay it out like that it sounds way too similar to the Buffy/Angel drama in season 3 and the show would’ve been worst for it.
Maybe, but Faith was someone who chose to betray her. She wasn't possesed by a demon due to a curse breaking. Buffy would have less initial sympathy towards her. In addition, the Angel drama in season 3 was provoked by the scoobies distrusting Angel and Angel distrusting and hating himself. Buffy was reluctant to grow close to Angel too, but it was more about her not wanting to get her hopes up about a realtionship that was doomed to fail.
The scoobies would still distrust Faith....but they distrusted Spike, too. Meanwhile, Faith's self-hatred is a different beast from Angel's. In practice, it would be more likely to resemble an altered Spike/Buffy than Angel/Buffy. With the added wrinkles of being a lesbian ship and ya know, Faith having a different personality than Spike and Angel. I think it would feel a lot different than either.
Faith would get her redemption in Buffy rather than Angel, but it should take until Season 6 at least so she could continue being an antagonist. Maybe she would wake up from the coma only in S6, and would try to protect Sunnydale in Buffy's absence while also struggling with her dark urges, then later tempt Buffy into the "darkness". In that way it would be similar to her relationship with Spike.
As for an out of universe point of view I don't think they would've made the main character a lesbian.
Listen… Buffy has two hands.
just give it time
the fuffyspangel pyramid is wooooonderful
I kinda feel like it would be a lovers to enemies esque story in all honesty. Basically what we got in Season 3 irl but with Buffy reciprocating, lots more riffing on the "slayer as homosexuality" metaphor that we got with Buffy's "coming out" to Joyce in Season 2, none of the Xander stuff (less to make it cleaner and more as the show never really entertained the idea of bisexuality) and the high potential that Faith flat out dies during Graduation Day for a fourth slayer (because this is the Buffyverse and entering a relationship is a pathway to death)
The idea presented here of Faith awakening in Season 6 is fun though. I could see that taking the place of Amy's return in this scenario - Faith awakening right as Buffy hits her lowest depressive point and having that dark messy Spuffy arc.
Wouldn't have happened. Too much gay for the times. Nor would it have made sense. Too.much damage done.
I like how we’re talking about a “what if,” and you immediately shut it down. That’s definitely a great way to spark discussion
Yet amazingly, discussion carried on....
It wouldn't make sense. Spike tried to rape Buffy, and that's what caused him to change. Faith did rape Xander, Buffy and Riley and felt zero remorse. If a piece of shit character like her didn't change from doing rape numbers that would put her in the same big leagues as Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein, then what makes you think they need this big redemption through a relationship with the main character?
Spike did commit way more rape than that, also Faith did feel remorse
Shoving "remorse" into the last 3 episodes of the show doesn't really count.
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I just don't think she should have been in the finale. She didn't add anything. She felt extremely shoe horned. Last we see of her, she attempted to kill Buffy. Then she runs away for like 3 years, and then they try to show the good side of her? If they couldn't do that, they shouldn't have attempted it. It was extremely sloppy.
I mean, S7’s entire storyline pretty much directly related to her. The First was trying to wipe out the whole Slayer line and Faith was the only other active Slayer in the world. It would’ve been frankly really weird if she wasn’t included so I don’t get you saying her inclusion was shoehorned in.
Her character spanned both shows. It’s inevitable you’re going to miss huge chunks of her development if you didn’t watch AtS.
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No, I haven't. I couldn't get into Angel. But I shouldn't have to watch another show for something in Buffy to make sense.
She had a serious redemption arc on the spinoff
faith didn't rape xander. they got in there and stopped it before it got that far
Oh sorry. 1 attempted rape and 2 people she did rape, as opposed to the 3 people she raped.
She threatened to rape Xander, but went for choking him instead
She wanted sex from him, he said no, so she attempted to kill him. Do you not consider this attempted rape?
The amount of people that defend Faith are disgusting. They don't care what actions someone does as long as they are good looking.
I'd consider it attempted murder/sexual assault. Not defending her. Just stating what happened.
no i consider it attempted willful murder with sexual window dressing
at least be accurate
"2 people she did rape"
What the hell are you talking about? Faith didn't rape anyone.
^ The Faith Fandom at its finest
How do fuffy shippers get over the facts that Faith was an unrepentant killer, basically raped Xander and tried to kill him, was a Big Bad's henchman, stole Buffy's body and had sex with her boyfriend AND YET think Buffy would want anything romantically to do with her? The bitch was a psychopath.
Because it’s this thing called fiction and stranger things have happened.