Just read California Burning by Katherine Blunt, a complete history of PG&E. Phenomenal book. Couldn't help but notice how relevant the entire book was to the talk of PG&E on this sub, so I thought I'd summarize the main points.

Let me recommend: BUY THE BOOK AND SUPPORT THIS REPORTING. What follows is a summary.

How It Started

  • PG&E was founded in 1905, right before the 1906 SF earthquake
  • A rival power company - Great Western Power Company - built a bunch of transmission lines to carry electricity from new hydroelectric dams (including 1 notable one ~Chico which led to the creation of Lake Almanor) and was competing fiercely with PG&E right up to Santa Rosa/Bay Area
  • Hydroelectric dam & transmission was still a risky investment, so private investors funded it
  • PG&E eventually acquired Great Western & inherited all their infrastructure, and consolidated power distribution in Northern CA under a regulated monopoly structure regulated by the California Public Utility Commission (CPUC)
  • Great Western's role is critical, because the hook that failed and caused the Camp Fire that razed Paradise was actually a hook that Great Western purchased 100 years ago from Ohio Brass that was phased out after 1924 for a stronger alternative

The 1970s Energy Crisis

  • In the 1960s & 70s, OPEC restricted oil production in response to US involvement in the Yom Kippur War & caused energy prices to skyrocket
  • Utilities & governments turned to nuclear power plants & early renewable tech to attempt to quickly get off oil. This is ~when the Diablo Canyon & the San Onofre nuclear plants were built
  • Three Mile Island happened. Diablo & San Onofre construction costs went over budget by billions of dollars, partly due to more stringent safety retrofits
  • CPUC allowed utilities to recoup most of the construction costs via rate increase, though investors ate a portion
  • On the renewables side, this is like, 1970s & 80s solar + wind tech. They're way more expensive than today - but the utilities were stuck with the contracts, even after the energy crisis subsided
  • Customers ended up getting stuck with some of the bills, but CA's economy was booming in the Cold War era so people didn't care that much

Deregulation, Enron, and Market Failure

  • Cold War ends. Great for the world, but aerospace industry slows in CA & CPUC is looking for a way to lower energy costs
  • This is the deregulation era, so California decides to be one of the first to try to disaggregate energy transmission, distribution, and production so people don't get stuck paying for expensive sources if there's a less expensive power source
  • TL;DR it worked at first but ended terribly as loopholes in the market design allowed players like Enron to intentionally withhold electric supply at the last minute to create emergency shortages, which drove up prices (& made $$$ for Enron) but created crazy price spikes
  • It's 2000. The summer is super hot. AC demand goes way up. Prices are crazy & California grid goes down
  • Due to deregulation, PG&E doesn't own a ton of the power production capacity anymore. They're forced to pay super high costs on an emergency basis.
  • CPUC recognizes the high costs but refuses to allow rates to go up due to consumer price shock. PG&E takes crazy losses, and eventually goes bankrupt
  • Gov. Gray Davis fails to decisively respond to the crisis and gets recalled. He's out!
  • CA hits the brakes on deregulation entirely
  • Arnold Schwarzenegger gets elected the new governor of California

Schwarzenegger Era & Prelude to Our Current Crisis

  • PG&E gets a new CEO in the wake of bankruptcy. He's a part of a new wave of CEOs who promises "business transformation" with ~CFO backgrounds and the investors love it
  • He hires a ton of consultants from Accenture in an attempt to modernize PG&E's systems, which to be fair are quite ancient
  • Turns out hiring a ton of consultants did not modernize PG&E as much as the C-suite would like. PG&E starts feeling the financial pressure since the CEO promised investors great dividends & returns, and starts cutting costs in areas like reliability & maintenance (e.g. inspections)
  • Simultaneously, climate change is starting to (rightfully) become a big issue. Arnold makes it a big part of his agenda, and PG&E executives lean into climate as an issue since it's good publicity (e.g. CEO gets invited to the United Nations) and start to procure more renewable energy
  • It's the mid/late-2000s. Prices to build wind/solar still haven't fallen off a cliff like they did in the 2020s, so CA is paying a premium for these energy sources. The costs get passed onto ratepayers
  • It's 2010. Skimping on inspections seem okay, until they don't. A gas pipeline in San Bruno explodes. 8 people are dead, and 38 homes are destroyed

San Bruno Gas Explosion

  • San Bruno marks the beginning of the end for the "business transformation" era
  • Darbee (CEO) is out. New CEO is focused on stabilizing the company post-San Bruno
  • Lawsuits fly. Regulators, including the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) close in on the gas division. 2 weeks after arriving, the NTSB release a 153-page document on PG&E's "failure to maintain the safety of its gas system"
  • PG&E brings in a seasoned gas pipeline exec from New England's National Grid. They finally fund more inspection & maintenance for their network of gas pipelines
  • In 2012, they bring in a 3rd party inspector: Lloyd's Register. 2 years later, they've turned things around. Meanwhile..

Camp Fire & 2nd Bankruptcy

  • Drought falls on California. It ultimately ends up being the most extensive drought in history
  • Invasive bark beetles proliferate as the drought saps the trees of their (literal) protective sap. Entire swaths of forests die
  • The same financial pressures that led to loose/nonexistent inspections of gas pipelines extend to the electrical infrastructure. Records or sparse, or didn't exist - particularly ones from Great Western's acquisition nearly a century ago
  • State lawmakers continued to focus on procuring more renewable energy, and PG&E is spending ~$1.5 billion each year in the mid-2010s to hit renewable targets
  • PGE stock regains its all-time high in 2014, and keeps on going up
  • PG&E is aware of adverse weather conditions, and prioritizes reliability & grid uptime around the populated SF Bay Area
  • By contrast, PG&E deprioritizes transmission in more rural locations. An engineer's series of requests from 2007 to 2017 to replace transmission towers along the remote Caribou-Palermo line, next to a small town called Paradise, are rebuffed
  • (In any case, under the regulated monopoly arrangement, PG&E gets a guaranteed return on new capital investments, not maintenance)
  • On October 8th, 2017, a fire starts north of Napa. The Tubbs fire sweeps across Napa & Santa Rosa. This is the first fire where I personally know someone whose family was affected
  • On November 8th, 2018, a worm hook on one of the century-old transmission towers broke and dropped a high-voltage wire. The Camp Fire sweeps across the dry forest, wipes out the entire town of Paradise. 50,000 people are displaced and 85 are dead
  • PG&E, saddled with more than $30 billion in liabilities, plunges into bankruptcy for a 2nd time

The Fate of PG&E: Public or Not?

  • Gavin Newsom is elected governor. PG&E files for bankruptcy shortly after
  • High risk fire territory has tripled from 15% to ~45% in PG&E's service area. Faced with high winds in October 2019, PG&E embarks on a series of rolling blackouts for days
  • The fate of Gray Davis flashes on Gavin Newsom's mind. He publicly tells PG&E to get their act together, and exit Chapter 11 by June 30th of the next year or else the state will step in & potential explore options to take over
  • Mayors lose faith in PG&E as well. Sam Liccardo, Mayor of San Jose, publicly comes out in favor of converting PG&E to a cooperative. Mayors of Sacramento, Oakland, Berkeley, and Davis join in
  • London Breed & SF embarks on their first attempt to straight up buy out PG&E in San Francisco for a municipally-owned utility. PG&E's shareholders and executives reject the offer
  • Newsom's strike team draws up options to potentially buy all of PG&E

The Trial & The Decision

  • Admit a plummeting stock, PG&E desperately needs money to pay out wildfire victims, and to continue trimming trees & continue operations even as it is in bankruptcy. Who will provide the money?
  • A series of hedge funds from Wall Street specializing in distressed assets swoop in and buy a ton of PG&E stocks and bonds, providing upfront capital in exchange for influence in the eventual restructuring
  • Newsom & his team is in a dilemma. He can fight to buy out PG&E, but it could take years and delay resolution for wildfire victims
  • Public takeover would allow the state to re-invest what would be dividends into safety improvements. But the fundamental risk of wildfires, and the liability incurred by any future wildfire, would remain
  • Ultimately, Newsom backs off the public takeover option, and opts to give PG&E a deadline for restructuring, which they do meet.

Where We Are Now

  • The CA state legislature establishes a wildfire insurance fund for utilities. Utilities that maintain safety can access it
  • New PG&E CEO sees the writing on the wall. You can't fight forever against the climate. PG&E decides to bury as many high-risk transmission lines as they can, a project that will ultimately cost $20 billion+

Okay, that does it for the summary. I work in energy, so here's my (personal) preliminary analysis:

  • Why do we have investor-owned utilities anyway? Historically, new electricity generation (e.g. hydroelectric dams) were novel and potentially risky. Electricity itself was new, and the payoff was uncertain. It seems like raising money from risk-seeking investors was easier than selling bonds via. local or state government. Though it's possible to issue a ton of bonds to build megaprojects (e.g. Golden Gate Bridge), it seems like the investor-owned utility model worked well enough for most of the 20th century, particularly when you consider that you need a state-level authority to finance construction of transmission lines across many counties/jurisdictions
  • Would a public takeover have solved all our problems? Not all of them, I think. You'd still be left with elevated wildfire risk due to climate change, and all the transmission infrastructure would still be super old. It's still going to take $20B+ to underground the risky transmission distribution lines (thanks, u/fullmetalruin). It took decades of neglect to get into this hole, and we won't get out of it in a year. That said, public takeover would mean that PG&E doesn't have a perverse financial incentive to spend more on new infra > maintenance, which got us into this problem in the first place
  • Did Gavin Newsom + CPUC make a mistake in not buying out PG&E? I understand the pressures. Let's say we did go the public takeover route. What happens if a transmission line for a CA public utility sparks another Camp Fire? It's a very realistic possibility, and whoever is governor is probably getting booted. By contrast, if PG&E remained under private ownership, the CEO takes the blame. Also, Newsom was under time pressure (Gray Davis got recalled for not being decisive) to resolve the Camp Fire situation. I do think public utility may be better on the whole, but the path to get there wasn't easy.
  • Is it right to compare PG&E's grid vs. other grids with extreme weather (e.g. Midwest snowstorms, etc)? I don't think so. Lots of talk of the SF outages before Christmas, but the core of the problem for PG&E is that we have a ton of transmission lines that can all spark wildfires. PG&E's struggles is that they need to allocate tens of billions to fix problems that they've neglected for decades, and that's draining from all the other parts of reliability spending. You don't really have anything comparable across NEISO / PJM, though PJM & their data center load is quickly becoming a whole different sort of problem with utilities
  • Look at Sacramento MUD - they're paying so much less, and the service is excellent! SMUD's isn't responsible for maintaining the 100-year old long-distance transmission lines like the Caribou-Palermo line that sparked the Camp Fire, I believe. The risk is in the rural areas, and someone has to bear that risk.. right now, it's PG&E. If we go full public utility, the state will bear that risk.
    • Update: turns out SMUD does have transmission lines from ~Tahoe that they source ~20% of their power from via hydro. Thanks for bringing this up, u/RepresentativeRun71. However, u/Goobt notes that PG&E maintains ~12,800 miles of lines vs. SMUD's 484.

I see a lot of talk about PG&E being greedy and price gouging customers, and I agree with a bunch of that. You can't electrify California if everyone's going to pay way more for it. But after reading this book, I do appreciate that the situation is a lot more complex, and that PG&E really is saddled with an impossible situation and that it cannot simultaneously satisfy (1) investors, (2) politicians, and (3) customers.

If you want to support good investigative reporting, or want to read the full story, buy the book. Merry Christmas.

Edit: Merry Christmas to you, u/mikeinanaheim2 + 3 other kind souls, ty for the award!

  • Nice write up , thanks

    Just here to recommend folks check out the The Dollap podcast that did a 3 part deep dive on the early days of PG&E

    Another Podcast -- episode on PG&E and corporate greed. Corporate Gossip podcast. It is a bit on the gossip side rather than the NPR fact driven side. Still interesting and entertaining to listen to. Spoiler: customers are being played by PG&E. Sorry, I could only find the Apple link to the episode. Website. Apple Podcast link. 10/27/2023 PG&E: Go girl give us nothing!

  • Thank you for the informative article. Having lived through that era, I felt like Gray Davis was the sucker who was holding the bag when the deregulation scheme collapsed. The scheme started under Pete Wilson, I believe.

    Maybe Davis could have handled the crisis better, but replacing him with Schwarzenegger didn't actually help. Davis had already stabilized the situation, and Schwarzenegger was chummy with the corporations that created the mess in the first place.

    Also I appreciate the nuanced take on the Gavin Newsom / PG&E relationship.

    I think the reason why PGE is hated so much is not so much the rate hikes, lack of reliability or politics.

    When PG&E pays their CEO upwards of $20 million, and reports net income of $500mil quarter over quarter it does rub people the long way. Very few understand the intricacies.

    I appreciate Patty mention that company must report revenue to keep investors satisfied so they will get more capital to reach PG&E ambitions of a reliable grid, underground network and green energy. But where they fall short is the communication and educating people.

    The gap between rate hikes and CEO pay/PG&E profits further accelerates the erosion of trust in institutions. The layman is not going to take the time to understand intricacies, but the situation feels wrong and we feel powerless to change it.

    Listen, they can pay their CEO whatever they want... I don't care. Tim Cook gets paid a ton of money but has grown apple significantly.

    What bothers me is that I have zero choice for where to buy my electricity. There's no competition thanks to the government. I don't have all the answers, but that needs to change and now.

    What bothers me is that I have zero choice for where to buy my electricity. There's no competition thanks to the government. I don't have all the answers, but that needs to change and now.

    I mean, did you miss all of Enron? Having energy choices doesn't really matter, it's a utility, we should be paying the lowest we possibly can as long as the generation meets certain requirements. There is no difference in an electron sent from one company vs another.

    How would this work? Like you’d have multiple brands of electric wires running in your neighborhood and you’d choose to buy from different providers?

    If you live in the Bay Area, you may have a choice who you purchase your power generation from - many Bay Area communities are served by CCAs. If you are not served by a CCA, and admittedly, many communities still are not, it’s worth telling your city leaders you’d like the choice. It used to be a huge lift to get a CCA off the ground. It still is, but with so many more in existence, the road maps are there OR there is an adjacent CCA that your community can join.

    With regard to distribution, competing systems simply don’t make economic sense - two sets of wires down the road just doubles a set of fixed costs while halving the customer base, and so doubling the bills for each customer base. Electricity distribution is a natural monopoly for a reason and should be highly regulated as such.

    While that changes the generation charges, we still pay PG&E the same amount for the transmission charges. That means that the total cost is marginally cheaper but still super expensive, and the urban areas still end up subsidizing the really rural areas that are super expensive.

    The real solution, and unfortunately one that may not be super popular, is that rural high-risk areas should simply be dropped from the grid. They should create and invest in their own local microgrids and use solar/batteries to power it, and urban areas should be separate. That would lower rates for us and would mean that the rural areas finally pay their fair share.

    Hard agree that there is a largely unacknowledged (in the general public) urban-to-rural subsidy in electricity rates and microgrids should be part of the planning though I’m not here to debate to what extent. You're right to say it will be politically difficult to tackle this issue. Urban/rural subsidies have historically existed across many utilities and public services, while rural areas often pay for the externalities of industries that benefit urban areas.

    On the other hand, there's great history of rural areas forming electric coops that are customer-owned and a point of civic pride. They can be subsidized via taxes that pay for low interest rate government loans, which can be easier to digest than the current subsidization via electricity rates. These loans have high pay-back rates, and so maybe benefit everyone. A few coops already exist in California.

    It sounds like you’re probably already aware that there's also a huge amount of high risk, high fire threat area in and directly abutting urban areas, as we saw in LA and Santa Rosa. Deferred maintenance impacts urban areas like San Bruno, too. Urban areas won't fully avoid the things that are currently making energy expensive in CA with microgrids, (and will still have to pay transmission costs), though again, you are very right that microgrids should be part of the conversation for affordability AND reliability reasons.

    I was offering potential current solutions for customer choice and POUs are generally cheaper than IOU service, even if as you said, occasionally only marginally. Folks should run comparisons themselves on what’s available because in some cases, the difference is nothing to sniff at.

    ...you do? There's probably a CCA where you live. What you can't have a choice in is different physical grids to belong to and that is mostly what PG&E is doing these days. 

    People don't want to be educated. 

    "The scheme started under Pete Wilson, I believe."

    Pete wilson signed the legislation into law literally on his last day in office. It was still created by a democrat-controlled legislature that should have known better.

    The book talks about this! Stephen Peace was the state senator who spearheaded the deregulation legislation. It ultimately cost him his political career.

  • Regarding SMUD and transmission lines, they source hydroelectricity (20% of total supply) from an area outside of Tahoe. SMUD didn’t burn down significant chunks of Placer and El Dorado counties where their transmission lines traverse.

    SMUD owns 484 miles of electric transmission lines.

    PG&E owns 12,800 miles

    When OP originally posted they stated SMUD has zero transmission lines. Which is why they updated their post.

    Great point. Adding this to the post

  • The main point is that they shouldn't have investors they have to satisfy, because something as essential as electricity should not be in the for-profit realm. Equally developed places where the government runs municipal electricity don't have these price gouging problems and they don't have worse service on average.

    Australia is the main point of comparison here (dry, large wildfires, public utilities). The big difference is that California operates under Inverse Condemnation, where utilities are on the hook for damages even if the wildfire was started by a freak accident. This means utilities in CA paid for the tens of billions in damages, whereas damages from the 2019-2020 Australian bush fires, for example, were more spread out between government / businesses / tourism.

    I think it's a fair to consider modifying inverse condemnation in California if we ever go the fully public utility route. I do think people & businesses who actively choose to move out to high risk fire zones shouldn't be 100% insulated from the risk of their decision to be out there.

    We aren’t; we pay extremely high fire insurance.

    I read that book and also the one about the Paradise Fire, I think called Paradise. As a Californian, I think building in such rural areas or in forests should be restricted or they provide their own energy source so the rest of us don’t have to foot the bill. And the idea of another Paradise is terrifying. The problems evacuating the town, the people getting stuck, no other town should have to go through.

    And rates are getting bad. We complain about ours in the Bay Area, imagine Bakersfield. They keep building and for 5-6 months of the year the have to use tons of energy due to their extreme heat.

    Partly because the Bay/LA simply refuses to make building more housing easier. I grew up here in the early 2000s in the Bay and the East Bay neighborhood I'm in looks almost exactly the same as 20 years ago. I do think the state at some point needs to step in and do something about this

    The state is doing more and more to restrict local municipalities from refusing to build housing. I really agree with you that more still needs to be done though. There really shouldn’t be any way to stop a project as long as it meets some basic zoning and limited height rules.

    The neighborhoods I've lived in have had almost no new units added in 60 years. Densification has been banned since the 1970's so that's what you get.

    Prop 13 has also distorted things beyond recognition.

    It creates bizarre incentives around allowing densification, so it’s even more unpopular here than usual.

    Prop 13 means that property taxes don't cover the services that muni's are required provide. So the last thing they want is more housing. Instead they want retail which provides sales tax revenue.

    Which residents know, so they don’t want to allow more housing either, because it’d reduce the quality of services even more, etc.

    I just started reading that last night (very little, though). Lizzie Johnson.

    I was zonked from cooking and throwing Christmas and as per usual, fell asleep with the book on my chest haha. I read in bed.

    Ah, the old "fuck the poor" methodology. 

    PG&E exists as a monopoly explicitly for equity. 

    I wish we had hydro like British Columbia. There's so much water there that it covers like, most of their energy needs. Incredibly affordable electricity compared to CA

    At the same time, a lot of those people who moved out to high risk fire zones have been there since well before the most obvious effects of climate change began to hit. How much should they be punished for things they didn't or couldn't have known sixty years ago when their parents or grandparents moved there?

    The situation isn't perfect, certainly. I understand that it's... complicated.

    I think u/mbatt2 brought up a good point about wildfire hardening, and Florida post-Hurricane Andrew comes to mind: tighter building standard for wildfire resistant housing for any new buildings, and state support for retrofits for housing that already exists.

    Smaller utilities don't actually serve a public good that the market wouldn't serve on it own with competition. 

    PG&E exists because a competitive market would fail to serve places like Paradise with power at all, as maintenance and lines would never earn any profit for what people would pay rates for. So the government creates a monopoly and regulates it, with the primary market failure fix regulation that they bring power to everyone. 

    In other words, the small government owned utilities are easy and very inexpensive. It's like saying "we should have seperate health insurance for people 15-30 and people 55-80." And then saying "why aren't prices for the 55-80 the same as 14-30!?"

    It's not JUST easier, it's creating inequality by saving cost locally while removing the easy high return areas from the distributed cost of powering rural poor. 

    The book actually talks about this: the solution for rural communities traditionally has been electrical coops, spurred by New Deal legislation designed to address exactly the lack of electricity & phone service you're talking about.

    It's fair to question whether urban communities should more or less subsidize rural expansion into high risk fire areas. The droughts are only going to get worse; shouldn't the price of living there reflect that, beyond just in the insurance?

    I'm not arguing for larger or smaller private entities providing these services. I'm arguing for doing it how most of the world does it: government service paid for by taxes.

    Exactly “public good” and “positive return for investors” are incompatible.

    No they aren't. Anyone with any education above 12th grade should know better. 

    I disagree. A reasonable return for investors is still compatible with public good. What was not compatible was overpromising returns to goose stock prices (remember, the C-level execs are compensated mainly with stock), and then starving safety and maintenance to achieve those returns.

    They legally cannot starve maintenance to goose stock prices. 

    They are required to spend 97% of revenue. They can't make a higher profit without spending it on building new power, which was legally required anyway. 

    Note: utilities like PG&E have a guaranteed rate of return on capital investments (like building new power lines or substations), but they do not earn a profit or return on routine operational expenses such as preventative maintenance. The book addresses this explicitly, and I think the CPUC should change this ASAP

    i'm not sure the CPUC can change anything, my understanding is they administer under the existing rules, but cannot create new ones.

    You may wish to experiment with reading the original post. And they very much did skimp on preventive maintenance, such as not running probes through the san bruno pipeline looking for cracks, not doing some tree trimming, not replacing power line "hooks" that were obsoleted in the 1920s.

    The problem is that without private financing, ratepayers and taxpayers (pretty much the same) are 100% on the hook to pay for any management mistakes. It's like not having insurance.

    A municipal utility doesn’t cover thousands of miles of transmissions and distribution lines through rural forest. It’s apples and oranges.

    Would be interesting other models, but unfortunately if the capital isn’t coming from investors where is it coming from? Investors need a return, if they don’t have that then the government has to raise the funds… and take the liability.

    if the capital isn’t coming from investors

    The state government takes the liability. But state taxes should be largely supplemented by federal taxes. Taxes on corporations and the ultra-rich should be higher, while taxes on corporations are functionally non-existent.

    There's the money. -0.1%/year of GDP growth for a safer and better society.

    The issue is that you still need to raise debt and other instruments. Just normal revenue on yearly taxes isn’t enough, you’re going to need more since the capex outlays are really high. Of course you can issue more bonds and all that, but it’s genuinely a horrible economic proposition for the state (the combination of the liability and needing to raise taxes plus cost of capital).

  • Ya, it's so common to hear that we would be better off with a publicly owned utility, but then you realize that PG&E has gone bankrupt twice in recent years. All of us taxpayers would be on the hook for that debt. There isn't an amazing amount of profit that would magically reduce our rates.

    The reality is that delivering power to a single home in CA isn't that profitable. Thus, buying out PG&E doesn't save much if anything. If you assume governments are less efficient than private companies (not aways, but generally true) then rates wouldn't really change much assuming service is the same.

    Almost all of a utility's profit comes from serving large customers. Thus, any sort of market rate structure benefits corporations and hurts single family rate payers.

  • In 2006 I had a summer internship at PG&E. I won’t go into all the details but I did get to see some of the OLD transmission and gas maps from like 1920-1950s. These things were barely legible and photocopies of photocopies, but in many cases were all that was left. Someone showed me the acquisition timelines of all the small municipalities and how this Frankenstein of a grid came to be. It’s a fucking mess. No one was keeping real records then as people were buying/selling and getting damn rich in those pre-environmental days. And as much as modern technology was trying to organize and keep track, the basic details were lost in the wind. I’m not defending PG&E but the modern PG&E as we know it inherited a mess that will cost billions to fix. They would literally have to open up roads and sidewalks and trails and parks just to figure out what’s really under there. Then to modernize this ancient infrastructure is another billion.

  • When an organization is in a complex financial situation, I want to see them investing that money into the organization, not bonuses for executives.

    I will always hate PG&E for considering those kinds of compensation to be normal to “retain” or “attract” “talent” when they have the issues they have.

    No, I guess millions of dollars in bonuses wouldn’t have done our infrastructure any good.. let’s raise rates, because THOSE millions will be useful…

    Agree 1000%. Individuals (CEOs) get WAY too much credit for solving problems. It’s always teamwork.

    There were a few years PG$E got a new CEO every year.

  • Thank you. Great post.

  • It’s worth noting that most wildfires are not actually caused by power lines. They make up a pretty small portion of Wildfires. I hate PG&E but wanted to note that.

    Fair point. The LA wildfires last year are a good example, and they're the most costly in history. But 2 of the top 5 most expensive (Camp + Sonoma/Napa fires) are due to PG&E, so as a % of the damages, power lines or equipment failure still seem like a significant source

    Yes but there will still be major wildfires even if PG&E were to bury all of their lines. It’s a questionable use of funds if you ask me. I work in wildfire response.

    Tough work. I appreciate what you do. Is the alternative to spend the money that would've gone to burying lines on.. managed retreat to move people out of high fire risk locations? More proactive wildfire monitoring/prep? I'm curious what the alternatives are based on your experience in the field

    Yes the alternative is to try to work on things like house hardening and suppression. The fires will come regardless, so trying to find ways to identify it and put it out faster is the goal. Of course, prevention is nice too but increasingly not feasible with extreme weather events.

    Is house hardening & suppression a realistic solution to some of the larger wildfires? Like, would it have saved Altadena / Palisades? (At the same time, I do feel like you need to replace some of these 100 year old transmission towers, because if they fail, you'd end up with reliability problems/blackouts)

    Absolutely, there are tons of structures in Butte County in particular that the raging Park Fire literally skipped around. What makes you “feel” that it wouldn’t work in Palisades?

    Primarily the lack of data, honestly. I just haven't seen an entire community survive a wildfire the likes of the ones that swept through the Palisades, but I also don't work in wildfire response. Not criticizing, just genuinely curious. I do see a link to the Sierra Nevada Conservancy, but that's about it. Would love more examples if you have them.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to mandate building codes for wildfire hardening, just like Florida post-Hurricane Andrew. I also can see a scenario where the state provides financial support to make those upgrades for pre-existing homes. After all - they're already there, and like you said, there can always be a rouge lightning storm that ignites a fire

    SoCal Edison has all but fully admitted the Eaton fire was sparked by their equipment...a supposedly deenergized transmission line that they were too cheap to remove

    Woah. This changes things. Just seeing the DOJ press release from September. Thanks for the check

  • Thanks, good summary and commentary. Three questions:

    * A huge amount of discussion centers on the role of high cost of rural distribution vs. urban distribution in PG&Es plight - is that really the case ?
    * Haters that want to buy out PG&E or break out distribution in specific municipalities seem to neglect PG&E debt of $60B. Seems like that is a huge barrier ?
    * Are there any good examples of a private utility / natural monopoly digging its way out of debt and an accumulated maintenance deficit while also transitioning to new generation sources ?

    My guesses:

    1. I think from my reading of the book, the real cost is the outsize risk of rural transmission/distribution lines starting fires. Densely populated urban centers will have fewer lines per capita, so I think the risk per capita is higher in rural areas (while revenue is largely same per capita)
    2. Yeah.. I'm not enough of a financial wizard to answer this one off the bat. But it would seem so. It certainly wouldn't be easy. That said, I do wonder why investors want to keep PG&E with all this debt + future risk rather than offload it
    3. I know Nextera & Xcel are heavy on renewables (with Nextera being a particularly interesting example because Florida electric rates are quite affordable) but I don't know if they had to dig themselves out of a hole like PG&E

    since PG&E doesn't price their electricity by location and risk, we are effectively all subsidizing the cost of providing and maintaining transmission/distribution to high risks area (mountain/forest sierra).

    The urban area transmission/distribution cost is much lower which is why local municipal utilities can offer cheap electricity prices (Santa Clara etc).

    Because PG&E is also mandated by CA state to supply electricity to whoever requests it. They cannot stop servicing high-risk area and leave customers hanging.

    That + the huge backlog of maintenance they've accumulated due to underfunding for years/decade. They've been working through it since 2019-2020 and have made some progress (if you look at fires triggered by PG&E owned equipment failures), but in the process we ended up with one of the most expensive electricity prices in the nation...

    I honestly think that rural consumers may be better off with electricity co-ops (mentioned in the book) centered around distributed energy resources, aka solar + battery microgrids. Like, if you're going to actively choose to live in a fire-prone area, either pay the utility an appropriate amount to cover for the risk, or use a microgrid to sidestep some of that problem

    I believe there were some CPUC filings a few years ago that addressed this. Rural parts of the state can cost upwards of 3x the cost of urban parts, so if you broke up PG&E you might have rural customers paying $1/kWh or even more while urban parts would see savings. You can see this with the SMUD comparison, they don't have the same rural footprint both from a cost and maintenance perspective as well as the fire risk. Something like 10% of a customer bill now goes towards tree removals.

    That is what a public utilitiy would be required to do as well. 

    Unless you are advocating extreme inequality

    The rural states across the USA have competitive electricity rates. I wonder how much of PG&E's problem are tied to the labor costs.

  • Great post! I learned a lot. Thanks.

  • Great Write Up! One correction, PG&E is burying Distribution Lines, not Transmission Lines.

    Noted, changed! Thanks

    Can you clarify the difference? 

    Transmission bring power from the power plants to the substations; distribution bring from the substations to the homes and businesses.

    Transmission is typically 60kv - 500kv Distribution is 4kv - 32kv

    Transmission are the super big towers or taller poles. Distribution are typical poles you see around a neighborhood.

    Burying transmission lines is nearly impossible and absolutely impractical. Tens of millions of dollars a mile, while burning distribution lines is still not cheap at about 3+ million a mile. When you consider PG&E has over 110,000 miles of distribution lines, it’s a pretty monumental task and cost to do.

    One correction, while burying transmission lines long distances in impractical, burying them in general is not impossible.  In fact, it is done quite commonly.  

    Many times, to get transmission to a substation in a large city, they must be buried to even access locations that are made to look like buildings or located in existing structures.

    Yeah I’m speaking generally, it’s definitely not impossible, but en-mass it’s completely impractical, unlike distribution. For instance, the U.S. Energy administration says .5% of all transmission lines are underground.

    Also, repairing them is a monumental undertaking due to the oil coating, detecting the faults can be extremely difficult to find the exact locations, and unless you go deep enough there is a legitimate concern about EMF levels on the surface for anyone who would be exposed long term.

  • Thank you, really good and thoughtful post.

    Going back to the same era as the creation of PG&E, there was a lot of energy, so to speak, in California politics to control and regulate utilities for the public good. This had grown out of the rapacious and monopoly behavior of the Southern Pacific Railroad in the 19th century, which controlled the Legislature and much of the California economy--since railroads were the main way of transporting goods around the State.

    Progressives of the era--which included many Republicans--made a reform focus on vigorously regulating public serving utilities. In 1911 there was a successful constitutional amendment to reform the toothless (and Southern Pacific controlled) Railroad Commission, which would later become the CPUC. The face of the reform was Hiram Johnson, who was elected Governor of California in 1910.

    "In office, Johnson was a populist who promoted a number of democratic reforms: the election of U.S. Senators by direct popular vote rather than the state legislature (which was later ratified nationwide by a constitutional amendment), cross-filing, initiative, referendum, and recall elections. Johnson's reforms gave California a degree of direct democracy unmatched by any other U.S. state at the time. When he took office, amid rampant corruption, the Southern Pacific Railroad held so much power it was known as the fourth branch of government. "While I do not by any means believe the initiative, the referendum and the recall are the panacea for all our political ills," Johnson extolled in his 1911 inaugural address, "they do give to the electorate the power of action when desired, and they do place in the hands of the people the means by which they may protect themselves." (Wikipedia page quote)

    (Johnson also had a checkered history in some aspects of his politics / policies. He signed the racist anti-Asian California Alien Land Law in 1913, and in the U.S. Senate opposed creation of the League of Nations and was an isolationist. But he did spearhead a lot of good reform in California and also in Congress.)

    Johnson's close ally in California reform politics was John Eshleman, a UC graduate and lawyer and State Assemblyman from Berkeley who was elected to the Railroad Commission to reform it and break the SP control. In 1914 Eshleman was elected Lieutenant Governor and was Johnson's heir-apparent for the Governorship (Johnson had his eye on the U.S. Senate.) But Eshleman died of tuberculosis, age 39, in 1916.

    If he had survived, he probably would have gone a long way in setting in place better regulation of the public utilities.

    What the California Progressives were able to accomplish in the early 20th century, supported by public outrage at the behavior of massive corporations, may be a guide for what it might be possible to do with a true utility reform movement today. But in some respects we're back at square one, with the body that regulates utilities also under their political thumb.

    Great point. I think to be allowed to be a regulated monopoly during the TDR trust-busting era probably means you need to be REALLY regulated / have incentives aligned with the public good. Probably worth noting that utilities were relatively new at that point and not giants with corporate interests. Definitely not as easy to regulate in the modern era

  • Really great write up. Wish this could be pinned somehow for future reference - we have A LOT of PG&E threads (for good reason), and this educational/historical material would be super valuable to keep coming back to over time.

    Precisely what I wrote it for. u/OskiBone help an East Bay brother out here

    How did you get this number

  • I think the biggest problem for me is because PG&E is a publicly traded the have a legal requirement to make money for investors. If they were a non profit they would not have this financial responsibility to external investors

    I do think the investor-owned utility model uniquely suffers from a disincentive to do long-term maintenance & service. Maintenance & service should not be in active conflict with good outcomes for investors; as a matter of fact, neglecting to maintain your infra results in very bad outcomes for the investors.

    It's hard to see the arguments for the investor-owned model when they can't even do that.

    This comes up so often in this sub. If they’re not funded by investors, who is funding all the work that needs to be done? The cost of capital would be insane with no return and the state doesn’t have the money. What model are you thinking works here?

    So the issue there is who is on the hook for the money. Remember those two bankruptcies? If PG&E was publicly owned and operated, taxpayers would have been on the hook for them, instead of private equity. That's the whole thing about the investor-owned model, is it lets the state avoid taking on the risk. It basically let's us bring more money in without having to raise taxes.

    The problem of course is the utility then has multiple loyalties and competing incentives and you get the current situation. So it's quite complex, although I do agree with the broad sentiment that utilities shouldn't be privatized. 

  • I read the book, and still believe their greed got the best of them. If you can’t maintain and support 100k+ miles of line don’t buy it.

    I understand it’s tough to operate in wildfire prone and rugged areas, but you bought it and assumed the risks and responsibilities.

    So tired of the PGE apologists.

    PG&E doesn't get to pick and choose which communities are safe to serve. Though it may happen anyways via adverse selection, with safe cash cow urban areas choosing to opt out of PG&E so they can't be used to subsidize rural provisioning.

    I agree with your take. The issue is the wildfire risk was not there when the lines were bought... this is becoming a larger problem due to climate change.

    They could maintain it when they bought it. The shift happened in 2002 when California passed SB 1078 requiring them to build new generation, but didn't give them ability to raise rates to pay for it. That meant they legally were required to defer maintenance to pay for new generation. 

    Can PG&E choose not to serve communities? Is it okay not to serve Oakland because it is a cesspool of crime?

    I know Oakland is not the biggest issue for PG&E. I know fire-prone rural areas are.

    It is unfair to cast full blame on PG&E when they can make some decisions.

  • a public takeover of PG&E would cost $60-100 billion.

  • Excellent summary. Thank you

  • super informative write up. I think the best solution is allowing individual cities to buy up the infrastructure. As part of that deal, state can require them to contribute capital dollars outside of their city lines that goes directly to transmission lines capital improvements.

    That is a tough ask. The easy parts of the grid would privatize, the hard parts would be too difficult to serve so the remaining cities would have their rates skyrocket. Distribution would no longer subsidize transmission so transmission rates would rise significantly. In the end, Pg&E would probably go under and the state would have to take over all the high risk parts of the business and the tax payer would get to pay for it all in the end. I am not sure anyone wins in this case.

    Who would pay for the maintenance of the transmission infrastructure?

  • I think a part of the impossible equation is that California as a whole agreed to the climate change mitigation strategies - that i think is the fourth impossible problem that PG&E is delegated to handle.

    People rightly talk about the affordability of electricity for the municipality ran power company in Sacramento - what people fail to account for is that the per famoly electricity usage in Sacramento is roughly double the usage in San Francisco (or other Bay Area counties). Furthermore, if you look at the average energy consumption, California and Hawaii are at the bottom of the energy consumption - guess which States have the highest electricity cost?

    At the same time, high electricity cost feels bad - even if you care about the climate change concerns.

    Appreciate the write up. I was familiar with the situation especially starting the Enron shenanigans. Great to read the holistic history of how we got here.

  • Great post OP. Just like most things in life, things are way more complex than Internet comments can handle.

  • I have Katherine Blunt's book but still need to read it... that said I've done a ton of reading and watching other material on PG$E and their malfeasance ever since the Erin Brockovich movie came out and even more after the pipeline explosion in my hometown of San Bruno. And yes, Erin Brockovich is no saint, is a fame-seeking money hound and the movie highly sensationalizes the reality but the core story of PG$E choosing to knowingly pollute groundwater because it was cheaper to do what they always did is true... and they also polluted the Colorado River in same fashion by disposal of hexavalent chromium laden wastewater in unlined pits at their compressor station at Topock.

    And while much of your summary is accurate, your personal conclusions are letting Newsom off way too lightly... he actively colluded with PG$E for their benefit in drafting of the terms of the legislation that allowed them to be bailed out from bankruptcy after the Camp fire. I urge you to read and watch the stellar investigative reporting in Power Fire Money series https://www.abc10.com/firepowermoney

    Thanks for sending, I'll give it a watch and update the post. Also, so weird to see ABC 10, it's ABC 7 here in the East Bay & I've been so used to that all my life haha

    It's ABC 10 out of Sacramento. I actually live up here but was born and raised in Bay Area

    Thank you for sharing this. This video, at the end, brought up an excellent point. Many people either don’t know how to do the manual override in an outage, or can’t, or they don’t know it exists.

  • Since the spring of 2000, energy problems have plagued California. Californians have faced blackouts, seen the state budget surplus disappear, watched Pacific Gas and Electric file for bankruptcy, and listened to state officials point fingers at many organizations and individuals for allegedly causing the crisis. The chain of events began as an opportunity for California to restructure and improve its electricity system. But after political leaders mismanaged the electricity crisis, California now faces an electricity blight while it struggles to recover from its self-imposed wounds.

    The California Electricity Crisis focuses on policy decisions, their consequences, and alternatives: the saga California has faced and is still facing. Throughout this saga, one policy decision led logically to another, yet at almost every juncture very different choices were possible. James L. Sweeney examines how the opportunity for restructuring was turned into risk, how challenges of increased demand for electricity and escalating wholesale costs were mishandled, and how the growing crisis ultimately turned into disaster. He documents how the California governor and legislature responded to the short-term crisis by adopting ill-conceived long-term measures—creating a harmful legacy for decades to come. But Professor Sweeney also shows how the state can still move past its difficulties by improving electricity markets, reducing risk, and appropriately managing the state's financial obligations.

    https://www.hoover.org/research/california-electricity-crisis

    https://web.stanford.edu/~jsweeney/paper/California%20Electricity%20Crisis.pdf

    whoo boy; the Hoover Institute? Back to Enron? ...but I will give it a look, thanks.

  • This was a delightful write up, thank you. I live in Monterey and we’ve dealt with significant outages over the last five years, and many are due to the poorly maintained infrastructure, not storms (re:trees). You mentioned aged infrastructure in rural areas but what about those in populated regions? From where we sit, PGE isn’t maintaining anything and tens of thousands of households keep getting affected.

    You may want to check out the Pescadero Microgrid project, which u/cazwax just brought to my attention. But it is concerning that a place the size of Monterey is having issues - it's not rural at all.

    I wonder if there's an underinvestment in reliability there because wildfire risk is relatively small along the coast. I do think this may be a situation where a smaller municipal utility would be more responsive to the needs of the specific service area, though again, the path to get there is difficult

    Thanks so much, going to dive into this now. Again, your write up was a delight to read today, you might’ve just convinced me to buy the book (and I’m not a fan of nonfiction)!

  • micro grids, more local generation, and state takeover for distribution and transmission

  • The 1970s Energy Crisis Three Mile Island happened. Diablo & San Onofre construction costs went over budget by billions of dollars

    Your chronology is flawed here, and this implication of cause and effect is misleading. You completely neglect to mention Bodega Bay Generating Station which would have been most impactful for us here in the Bay Area by providing clean cheap atomic energy generated right on the Sonoma coast with no need to import power over long distances.

    The 1964 protests against Bodega Bay NGS were four years before Diablo Canyon or San Onofre even broke ground (both 1968), and was 15 entire years before the Three-Mile Island event happened (1979). They went as far as to redefine the official location of the San Andreas fault to convince people it was scary and unsafe. (PROTIP: A reactor trip can shut one down in about three seconds; not exactly scary when seismic detectors give many times more warning than that)

    One can actually go visit the “hole in Bodega Head” where PG&E started excavating the reactor pit before being made to stop.

    Hey, just summarizing the book here, which did not talk about Bodega Bay. TMI seemed to be the defining event which led to a cascade of stringent safety requirements on the national level, which ultimately did impact Diablo & San Onofre even as the push to oppose nuclear power in the 60s was happening at the same time.

  • After camp fire, California should force the payment of the fines in assets, so California would own big part of them by now. 

    It’s the only way to punish them when something goes wrong otherwise it’s people that will need to pay 

    For Newson, PG&E will be the big obstacle for him on midterms, the big topic is affordability and Newson failed in all fronts to make California a little more affordable 

  • So interesting - thank you!

    A rival power company - Great Western Power Company

    And now they are remembered (only) by the climbing gym in downtown Oakland.

    I know! I was like woahhh when I found that out

  • the core of the problem for PG&E is that we have a ton of transmission lines that can all spark wildfires. PG&E's struggles is that they need to allocate tens of billions to fix problems that they've neglected for decades, and that's draining from all the other parts of reliability spending.

    PG&E maintains ~12,800 miles of lines vs. SMUD's 484.

    Seems like the solution here is to de-energize the vast majority of those lines, rely much more heavily on microgrids and local storage, and only build long-distance transportation lines along transportation corridors where they are easily maintained. It's not the 1910s anymore, where power generation meant trucking in coal or damming a river. Solar and wind can work anywhere with reasonably self-contained generation.

    That seems like a great idea. Main issue is probably the most remote communities have the least money to build out said microgrids. 

    You still need local distribution. Which means either undergrounding lines ($$$) or overhead lines running through trees.

  • I just want to add 1 important point that I don't see addressed in the post or comments, even though there are clearly many well-informed people here: PG&E's role as a middleman in distribution of SFPUC-generated power.

    I'm summarizing what I read decades ago in the Bay Guardian free weekly, and also a few articles in the NYT. Feel free to correct anything I get wrong, but please don't dismiss the whole story as some myth made up by a cranky old man: there are documented facts here that are almost never discussed. Backup is easily available online from various objective sources such as wikipedia.

    Long story short: the US Congress in the 1913 Raker Act gave San Francisco the right to dam the Tuolumne, flooding the Hetch Hetchy valley just north of Yosemite valley. This right was conditioned on using that public resource to provide a dependable source of water and power for SF and other communities, and the act prohibited any ongoing private profit accruing from the project.

    At the conclusion of construction of the whole system in the 1920s, SFPUC's supply of copper wire for transmission lines ran out just as they reached the South Bay. PG&E came to the "rescue" offering to build the remaining lines and allow the City to use them for City projects (power for public buildings and transit), on the condition that PG&E retain rights to distribute and sell the remaining power for retail use.

    Not long after this fix (in both senses of the word) was put in place, the missing copper wire was discovered in the basement of City Hall. But for a century, PG&E has retained their franchise, buying SFPUC's public hydro power cheap and selling it to the citizens of SF at retail rates. I'm no lawyer, but it sure seems like the profits PG&E takes on that franchise year after year are an ongoing violation of the terms of the original law.

    • Turns out hiring a ton of consultants did not modernize PG&E as much as the C-suite would like. PG&E starts feeling the financial pressure since the CEO promised investors great dividends & returns, and starts cutting costs in areas like reliability & maintenance (e.g. inspections)

    • Simultaneously, climate change is starting to (rightfully) become a big issue. Arnold makes it a big part of his agenda, and PG&E executives lean into climate as an issue since it's good publicity (e.g. CEO gets invited to the United Nations) and start to procure more renewable energy

    These two points are intentionally backwards.  green power mandate in california first passed

    The Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS), was enacted in 2002 with SB 1078, requiring 20% renewable energy by 2017.

    PG&E pricing (revenue and profit) is extremely regulated. They get to keep a higher percentage for building power generation than maintenance. 25% vs 10% iirc. 

    When the green energy push comes, there is a legal mandate to build green production, but no price increase to pay for it. Building power generation is a massive capital expense. 

    Not only is PG&E have incentive to build power generation if they can, they are required to build new power generation and they are NOT permitted to charge for it. They have a cash problem coming out of bankruptcy. They are, DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF GREEN POWER MANDATES, forced to defer maintenance. 

    That is where the disasters start: cash strapped from the "Gray Out" of 2000-2001 they are then forced to use what little cash they have to deprecate working power generation and build new power generation. Which continues to be expensive, but was insanely more expensive.

    Putting these points in the order you did is intentional to hide that this was entirely a regulatory and legal requirement. No utility could operate in the environment without deferring maintenance, and its why you are seeing massive fires outside of where PG&E operates. 

    The only places you don't see it are where small utilities get away with having effectively few or no transmission lines. 

    If you accept that we rightfully focused on green energy, we should have rightfully raised rates to allow PG&E to build out AND perform maintenance. They make profit on both. They have incentive to do both. But if available funding is short, they will follow legal mandate before replacing working infra. Ultimately everyone who died in those fires died because Green Power couldn't be sold if people knew they would have to pay for it. 

    Also, to put some numbers on it, thanks to u/DumbYellowDog:

    Based on a a few minutes of Gemini 3 querying, it seems like old solar contracts cost PG&E $0.10 to $0.15 per kWh, nat gas in general costs $0.09-$0.11 per kWh, and new solar / storage / wind costs $0.03 to $0.05 per kWh. So even back in the day it would be hard to pin their excessive costs on renewables.

    So you can't entirely pin it on renewables, just like you can't pin it all on one simple reason.

    Respectfully, you are completely ignoring the failures of market design from the deregulation push, Enron's market scheming, and the demand spike of 2000.

    This book is actually pretty straightforward that you can't simultaneously (1) keep rates the same as they are + (2) mandate more renewables + (3) maintain the grid up to ideal standards + (4) promise investors that dividends will be going up. Something has to give.

    You're right that one way to potentially solve this problem is to remove the renewable energy standards. However, even if you removed the renewable energy standards, I still think PG&E would've deferred maintenance.

    Why? Because if you're a CEO who's willing to put aside maintenance for years in pursuit of efficiency and profits after a bankruptcy, you're not going to think

    You know what? We don't have to worry about renewable energy anymore. It's time to give the investors less returns, so we can spend more on maintenance

    For what it's worth, I do think that PG&E should've been allowed to raise rates for more expensive renewable sources, and that's what happened with Diablo Canyon & the initial renewables push during the 1980s. I just don't think doing away with renewable procurement in the early 2000s would've been the easy solution to all our problems now.

    Name and shame the CEOs

    The guy who cut back on maintenance is, in my opinion, a criminal

  • Another facet of our current difficulties is how hard it is to keep and maintain home insurance in fire-prone areas. My mom was dropped by 3 insurers in Sonoma County in a calendar year, then managed to get covered by State Farm. For a while they were the only company who would write policies in the county, and now even they’ve stopped covering Sonoma.

    Dang. Sorry about that dude. Curious what you think about managed retreat. Do you think your family would ever consider relocating in the long-run?

  • Read this book a few years ago, and completely agree - a great read that provides nuance of an incredibly shitty situation. I really appreciated the effort put into covering the background of how utilities came to be.

  • Good writeup, so many folks have moved here over the past 20 years and don't know about enron royally screwing us. I'm still mad at the feckless gray davis for not pulling a dawn raid on the energy "traders" manipulating the market. maybe they wouldn't have landed smoking gun evidence but the power would not have gone out that day or the next week. White collar crime ain't so much fun when your workday starts with cops sticking guns in your face and hauling you off in cuffs. Granted, guv davis was burdened with a republican AG who was in three monkeys mode, but there had to be some LEO agency that would be willing to act--people in the central valley die without summer AC.

    It would be good to include mentioning at what point PG&E achieved regulatory capture, and that consumer billing rates have doubled over just five years.

  • This is a great post and very informative. I’ll check out the book. Appreciate your post.

  • Ok but what are we gonna do about it?

    Personally? I think my initial take is that we should support a candidate for governor who is willing to explore the public ownership route, and who will appoint CPUC commissioners who are aligned. I think maintenance, wildfire resilience, and more distributed energy resources & microgrids (solar + battery) should be prioritized, and the governor should explore options to get us there if existing PG&E can't do it.

    Meanwhile, I think we should continue to elect mayors who are open to exploring how a collection of municipal arrangements can be implemented. We (the Bay Area) should have our own municipal utility. Call it Bay Area Power.

    But this is early, and I just finished reading this book. Maybe other ideas will come up, too.

  • Thank you for writing this up. I appreciate the book recap and your thoughts on this.

  • The dollop has a great episode on PG&E

  • Great summary, much appreciated.

  • Record profits.

  • It could be worse.

    You could have PSE and have your electrical utility run by foreign private equity instead!

  • Very well articulated. There is one omission that cannot be printed due to political correctness and to avoid getting canceled by left mobs. many members of the PUC were on PG&E pay roll and they always went out of their way and in immoral way to hep PG&E. Gov Arnold Schwarzenegger and Gov Jerry Brown fired many members for corruptions by colluding with PG&E. To be fair to PG&E, from their perspective as a business corporation, it is better to invest money on PUC members than on infrastructure for higher returns on their investment. So they did that.

  • This does fast-forward through the Depression (post-Great Western acquisition and a time of increasing rural electrification) and postwar years, during which time a public takeover was already being discussed, and even seen as a foregone conclusion by some. Years ago (probably sometime during the 2017-21 fire seasons), I saved this passage that I saw posted a couple times:

    "Sooner or later the state or the federal government must take over P. G. & E. lock, stock, and barrel. There is good reason to believe that the astute executives who manage the company are not only fully aware of this possibility, but that their present strategy is based on the assumption that the company will some day be taken over by a public agency. The aim, therefore, is to delay public acquisition as long as possible and, at the same time, build up a book value which the government will some day have to pay for the company's properties. By tying-up contracts for the sale of power, by fighting the Bureau of Reclamation every step of the way, and by continuing to subvert public opinion in California, the company can count on a fairly extended term of existence.”

    Carey McWilliams. California: The Great Exception p. 337 (1948).

    How true was this back then, and has it been true in future decades? (I lean towards "yes" and "yes, but less so.") Aka, how much did "intentional grift by company execs to line their pockets during the ineluctable public acquisition" cause the crises and headaches we're dealing with today?

    Ooo interesting take. I suppose it's a risky bet - it requires for investors to be confident that they can offload the risk before it comes to fruition, otherwise the public takeover would be pennies on the dollar and not that profitable at all. If that's true, it doesn't seem like it paid off. PG&E looks quite like the bagholder here

    Very true, I guess the picture looked a lot rosier for PG&E insiders in 1948 — probably right up till the 90s.

  • Great read thank you

  • This is a very good post. I also work in energy. I'm not even going to scroll down to see everyone arguing, I salute your patience in writing this up. It's almost impossible to explain these things to customers and sometimes to legislators as well but hopefully some will absorb this information.

  • One way to break the power monopoly is solar. We rely on solar and battery most of the year except in winter we have power deficit and needed to buy power from PG&E, which has been reliable in San Mateo.

    The role of PG&E has changed from our only power source to winter backup. Like many others here, we were not happy with constant rate increases. But after we installed solar, we don't mind that much anymore as for most part of the year we can be self sufficient in power generation.

    In fact, any future rate increases help justify our solar investment :)

    Love that. Probably why they were so quick to push NEM 3.0. It's fascinating to consider if a state-owned utility would be much less against residential solar deployment since it's not a threat to their 10% rate of return on capital expenditures

  • Let’s just blame it all on renewables now that old reactionary white golf dudes are in power. Claim they’re expensive and ignore the actual price on the contract of 5 cents a kWh for solar+storage…

    I would like to know their acquisition prices for various old power generator contracts, both renewable and fossil fuels. I can’t imagine those peaker plants are cheap to operate either.

    Can we public records request these contracts? I mean, PG&E is an investor-owned public utility, right?

    Is there a CalMatters/Propublica account we can tag here?

    They are probably all public already, would just take some time to compile.

    Based on a a few minutes of Gemini 3 querying, it seems like old solar contracts cost PG&E $0.10 to $0.15 per kWh, nat gas in general costs $0.09-$0.11 per kWh, and new solar / storage / wind costs $0.03 to $0.05 per kWh. So even back in the day it would be hard to pin their excessive costs on renewables.

    Not that everyone’s racist uncle won’t do it anyway though!

    Honestly, that's not too bad. I'm going to reply to someone else's comment with it haha

    So you're saying our high rates are not due to renewables? I thought it was the building out of the generation that was the main cost? 

  • PGE compensation is as good as the FAANGs.

    There’s no way a power transmission company can be placed on the same level.

    Can you explain? Patti Poppi made $15.8 million in total compensation in 2024.

    Facebook - Zuckerberg is a multi hundred billionaire Apple - Tim Cook’s net worth is 2.4 billion Amazon - Andy Jassy’s net worth is 500 million Netflix - Ted Saranos net worth is 200 million Google - Sundar Pichai’s net worth is 1.1 billion

    FAANG is in its own league.

    IMO paying the CEO of PG&E to run California’s largest electric and gas utility $15.8 million a year is a fair trade considering how difficult a job it is and the amount of experience and talent it takes. Plus most of that pay is linked to performance. However, I am just as pissed off about Geisha Williams’ $2.5 million dollar severance/golden parachute package after the camp fire, so there is some justified criticism.

    Edit: if you are referring to just normal engineers/utility worker salaries, PG&E does pay very well. But it is nothing compared to big tech. But honestly, for labor, you’re competing against big tech in the labor market and need to offer something competitive to get atleast a decent level of talent, PG&E pays well enough to retain their employees and keep them from jumping companies which is absolutely the right call when it comes to a utility. The unions have also negotiated strong contracts for the utility workers and they absolutely deserve their pay.

  • So that hook was over 100 years old that caused the camp fire as well as the one that caused the tubs fire was old as shit. Looked like a sunken ship rusted over. They were told to repair these ancient dangerous lines but decided to pay ceos and shareholders of course resulting in deadly fires that took many lives. Essentially killed people because of greed. Any public service that gets privatized is going to have this problem. We saw it with Enron, and we can see how southern California Edison is better regulated, slightly less privatized and better than PG&E as a result.

    I don't know if Socal Edison ended up in its modern state via. a series of acquisitions, but based on u/Zestyclose-Beyond780's account, PG&E seems to be especially piecemeal in its acquisition-based path to its current service territory. Every time there's an acquisition, records will be lost, and systems will be incompatible..

    I do think the incentives are out of place between investors vs. the public good here, but even a fully public utility will have to re-inspect everything because so many of the records just don't exist anymore. But if that's what it takes to keep California safe, it's what needs to be done

    We used to have privatized firefighters and it was a disaster. Look at the scene from gangs of New York. Two firefighter companies fighting each other while the building burns down. That was a real thing. Fire doesn't care who has fire insurance. It doesn't just stop at your neighbor's house. Likewise we are all connected to the same electric grid as well as electricity being a basic necessity for living. It should be a TRUE public good. In the same vain Texas fragmented and privatized grid is a disaster. The skyrocketing electric prices in the Midwest due to AI data centers is a disaster. All of these problems would be fixed under a properly regulated public utility.

    To be fair, Texas has super low rates while rivaling California in renewables deployment. I think there's a lot to learn, and if there's anything this book tells us, it's that there are no silver bullets and that the path forward, even the public ownership one, will be hard

    Edison is no better... they just haven't sparked quite as many fires as PG$E yet...but their equipment is considered the leading cause of the Eaton fire that burned Altadena along with being found culpable for the Thomas fire and likely cause of Woolsey fire

    They are SLIGHTLY better. They have better equipment and fire detection systems in place. I said they are SLIGHTLY less privatized they still have issues and Fires are also turning into a bigger and harder problem due to climate change. The regulatory agency that regulates PG&E the CPUC is also comprised of many ex PG&E executives. So essentially they have no regulation.

  • imagine if there was as much uproar about more pressing issues like homelessness and crime

  • When I moved to California my friend explained to me, "PG&E is the company from that Erin Brockovich movie."

  • Looks like it'll take a little while to get off the ground:

    If the application for a microgrid in Pescadero gets approved by PG&E, an 18-month planning phase would begin in 2027.

    Too long, I'd say. Though one potential advantage is that solar & battery costs will continue to fall in the meantime. Actual construction + commissioning/interconnection would probably take another year at least, so maybe this is on track for a ~2028 to 2030 launch timeline?

    Btw, thank you for all the work you're doing on the council 🙏

    there was / is a long story of engaged citizens out there who have been pushing something like this for years. the real trick is in the interconnect requirements at the cut off points. IIRC that was ne of the stumbing blocks up in La Honda.

    In many ways the Council tries to keep discussion civil. ( lots of pushback and rural resentment out there, but waning. the current council is quite good, but over the years... sheesh. )

    The long term org 'Sustainable Pescadero' should get more of the credit - I think they've a new name. Also the great Puente de la Costa Sur...

    Did you know there is no laundrymat out there? and the high school doesn't have potable water? It's effectively a food desert wrt shopping? and in one of the wealthiest counties in america.

    That's wild. It's technically just an hour away from where I am on the East Bay but feels so different. Would love to visit y'all at some point and hear about the whole thing

    Oh man. Any idea what residential rates are estimated to be for something like this? Very curious 

  • What do you think about CA changing from Solar NEM 1&2 to the new Solar Billing Plan and the bill before the state to shorten or end the previous NEMs? It seems to disincentivize people from going solar.

    I actually made reference to this in another comment with u/KeyClear560:

    It's fascinating to consider if a state-owned utility would be much less against residential solar deployment since it's not a threat to their 10% rate of return on capital expenditures

  • ¡I’m too poor to buy the book especially having read the summery, but I can give you an upvote!

    Check out your local library, they may have it in their catalog. Mine does and I just started reading it yesterday. My dad was an electrical engineer from the early 1960’s to late 80’s.

    Check out your local library, they may have it in their catalog.

    It would be nice if I had the luxury of time to read or even listen to an audio book. As an active content creator this is as deep as I'm going to get informed about the topic because my free/luxury time is booked for collaborating with other local bay area artists for the remainder of this life time, and until I can break the cycle of reincarnation ¡Which I hope to do this round! <fingersCrossed>

    Glad I could help, I think everyone benefits from being more well-informed :)

  • Thanks for the detailed write up.

    what I still dont understand is what part of this is unique to CA that our setup cause prices to be so expensive? It's not like other states dont have fire risk or rural areas vs cities.

    One answer is inverse condemnation (aka reverse eminent domain), which is specific to California. Utilities are on the hook for damages more so in CA than elsewhere. The damages in the Australian 2019-2020 bushfires, for example, were a lot more distributed.

    Other CA specific things:

    • The 2011–2017 California drought played a big role. Plus the sledgehammer that was invasive beetles. You just end up with a ton of dead trees, prone to falling or burning
    • You can think of a state like Texas, which also has wildfire risk in the western part of the state, but they don't have Northern CA's forests
    • Washington has forests but also have access to a ton of inexpensive hydropower
    • Colorado and Oregon are high risk as well, but I assume they haven't been ignoring maintenance in a pursuit to be a cool utility stock in the past 2 decades

    I'm curious about the last point. PG&E still spent a ton of money, right? Supposedly on renewables? So why can't that money be shifted over to maintenance rather than new money (and higher rates)?

    Colorado actually has been super big on renewables (43% energy generation in 2024), so that's not the difference. And as u/DumbYellowDog mentions, even if we got out of the renewables contracts in the early 2000s, it still wouldn't save that much money:

    Based on a a few minutes of Gemini 3 querying, it seems like old solar contracts cost PG&E $0.10 to $0.15 per kWh, nat gas in general costs $0.09-$0.11 per kWh, and new solar / storage / wind costs $0.03 to $0.05 per kWh. So even back in the day it would be hard to pin their excessive costs on renewables.

    My understanding of PG&E's relationship with renewables is that they sort of used it as good PR cover to distract from the underinvestment in maintenance. Would you rather be a boring utility emerging from bankruptcy with infra problems, or a cool + lean/mean modern utility that's fighting against climate change?

    Unfortunately, good PR only lasts for so long.

    So our rate hikes are pretty much all bc of maintenance plus having to pay for disasters? 

    I think this a generally fair statement

  • PG&E, saddled with more than $30 billion in liabilities, plunges into bankruptcy for a 2nd time

    Except that they didn't discharge their wildfire liabilities during this bankruptcy, and AB1054 required them to keep paying it out. Which leads to

    Admit a plummeting stock, PG&E desperately needs money to pay out wildfire victims, and to continue trimming trees & continue operations even as it is in bankruptcy. Who will provide the money?

    Yeah, well, the point of bankruptcy would be to discharge existing liabilities and start a clean slate. Having been denied that, there was little chance of recovery.

  • Anything about the costs of data centers? I've just assumed that the massive cost of data centers for AI was also a part of this.

    How about the fluctuating energy uses of the cannabis industry?

  • If it's $20B to upgrade the transmission lines, how about building a bunch of generation close to the load instead?

  • Thank you so much for the write up, I will definitely check out the book. Did the book propose a solution (no such thing as perfect, but a best case way forward?)?

    Unfortunately, the book did not. It was first and foremost, an accounting of the history of PG&E and the ramifications of it in the current era.

    I'm personally hoping that our next governor & the CPUC will explore the public takeover route a bit more so that we can align incentives towards maintenance (currently, utilities get a return on new infrastructure but not maintenance) + push for distributed microgrids in rural areas (like the Pescadero Microgrid project, which u/cazwax brought to my attention). We may maybe pair that up with strict wildfire hardening building codes for new homes in risky areas, which is at this point like half of the state.

    Together, that may help us reduce risk as much as possible.

  • very nice post

  • The bottom line is that in a healthy society, essential public services shouldn't be operated with profit as a motive. Investors shouldn't even be a thing.

  • Our essential utilities should not be a trading commodity

    Fair take. We're in a very different world now than the one I referenced in the Why do we have investor-owned utilities anyway? section towards the end of my post

  • CA need infra improvements and PG&E cannot do it. We need to pour public money and those infra built witl public money should be public asset, not PG&E's asset. So i support making PG&E state owned and we need to put efforts to improve our decades behind infra.

  • Wilson created the problem, Davis got blamed and hung out to dry the moment he was elected. He just did not have the ability to combat Enron’s recall campaign.

  • This underplays the amount of damage Regan was personally responsible for as governor.

  • Get solar. I've had solar for about ten years now. I haven't paid for power since. It's nice.