From what I've observed there seems to be a lot more South Asians dominating the role of executives (CEO) in companies such as Google, Microsoft, Adobe, etc... An exception would be Nvidia where Jensen Huang is the CEO of Nvidia; I saw somewhere a while ago where there isn't any east Asian people working in executive roles, just only white people.
I saw somewhere from Instagram where in countries China for example where are in a Gaokao education where they are pressured to study for like almost 10 hours a day like one day of slacking will make you behind in content and the gaokao exam is the exam that determines your future. From my logic this burns them out and only they are stuck/capped with either medicine/law, anecdotally where passed down to like many generations regardless if they immigrate to a western country, where I see that us East/South-East Asians doing white collar jobs are moderately-highly concentrated.
Compared to South Asia for example like India, from my research where the education system is looser than Gaokao's and like they get to explore more freedom and more opportunities of what they want to do/become in the future. There are much more wider spectrum of South Asians in those jobs such as ranging from blue collar jobs to white collar jobs and to executive leadership such as being the CEO of like Google, Microsoft, Adobe.
I'm not saying that one group is better than the other, but where education systems and cultural expectations that seem to funnel people especially in the long-term outcomes. East/SE Asians tend to excel academically especially in the white collar industry, but yet that success doesn't translate them to like executive leadership at the same rate. Meanwhile South Asians are more present in a spectrum of jobs, to showing up more frequently in top decision-making positions. This to me tells us how this is less about talent and how things like early pressure and burnout shape ambition and leadership pathways.
So what are your thoughts on this Is this gap in executive representation mainly driven by culture and education systems, by structural barriers and bias in Western companies, or by choices within our own communities? And more importantly, what would actually need to change for East and Southeast Asians to move from being heavily represented in white-collar roles to being just as visible in executive leadership?
There are two crucial points to understand:
(1) Immigrant Pass
(2) Among Immigrants, Indian Immigrants have language advantages
IMMIGRANT PASS
Immigrants are the minorities that whites give favorable treatment to because in the US, cradle to grave, we are taught to be proud of the success of immigrants, to welcome them, and be their champions.
Whites tear up when they hear a story of immigrant success. They're not shedding any tears when a native born Indian/Asian does well; in fact they feel jealous.
Meanwhile these same white people see native-born Asians who speak and act like they do as competitors for resources and begrudge and impede our success in this country.
Whites are happy to promote an Asian/Indian immigrant in the workplace; and share pride in their success.
You do not see native-born Asian/Indian CEO's. Why? They're not any smarter than us. It's because whites give favorable treatment to immigrant minorities, seeing them not as peer/rivals as they see us.
Humans naturally compete against peer/rivals - the kinds we grew up with, who are in our social circles, which immigrants were not. They see them as a separate group they are not competitive with, one they can serve as a virtuous hero by uplifting.
Whites close ranks and engage in white solidarity against native-born Indians and Asians in the workplace. They make exceptions for immigrants.
If those of us born here want the top role, we have to start our own companies like Instacart and Door Dash.
As I've mentioned, American racism is subtle and selective; it's important to deconstruct it. What I'm saying reflects 2+ decades of practical experience and observation.
LANGUAGE ADVANTAGE
Now that the Immigrant Pass is established, among Asian immigrants, Indian immigrants have a language advantage since English is taught extensively in India, a former British colony.
In a way the foreign-born Indian immigrant is the perfect model minority- speaks English well enough, has a foreign accent (which makes it clear he's an immigrant to be given special treatment to), and has similar education or better to locals.
Indian culture is also a bit more contentious and engages in social aggression/debate, which can be helpful in Western culture.
But the main reasons are Immigrant Pass + Language.
Let’s not buy into the “East Asians are less assertive” talking point. Anectdotal, because I’m not in tech- but I’ve worked with many who are assertive borderline aggressive/rude- but brilliant. I’ve implied to them they should be executives, but from what I understand, in order to get to that level, you need sponsors from other executives. That’s one factor, lack of that political capital. The stronger factor though in my opinion is that EA techies don’t seem to feel it is worth it to climb up in the rat race and are fine with their high enough salaries. Not sure why that is the case with the techies- but this is not the same when it comes to law or finance, where EAs do have the drive to work up to the echelons (partner, senior trader, senior i banker, for example). The techies do seem to have supplemental income on the side though- real estate, investments seem to be common, so that prob has something to do with why they just want to plateau and coast in their day jobs
White people think about SAs differently than EAs
I would say Whites are less threatened by SAs than EAs
India's higher education system isn't "looser" - from what I've read it's just based off one admissions test similar to China's. And lots of Indians complain it's all just memorization, which is what ppl say abt China
I really wish someone wld take the 100 biggest US comps and calculate how many EA vs SA execs they have cause I do sometimes see EA at non-CEO positions. Like this random Viet guy is Vice Chair of BofA:
https://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/content/newsroom/executive-bios/thong-nguyen.html
But the broader issue is how SA just fit in better in Western countries. I just feel EA are made to live in EA. A good example is a guy like VIvek Ramaswamy being able to run as a Republican, cld you really imagine a Chinese origin guy pulling that off? Its just phenotype and English ability and stuff. Like a dude like Rishi Sunak can become PM of UK, cld an EA guy? It's just harder to imagine.
Funny enough, Vivek is getting a ton of backlash from his own partyz
Tokens sell out eventually, he was never completely accepted no matter how hard he tried to imitate Trump.
Lots of Asian owners of Restaurants, Mini Marts, beauty salon and alot of other businesses probably in every categories.
Two things to consider here.
Tech CEOs are very high up there, and who ends up where depends a lot of individual factors and just the state of the world in ways that I think the conversation OP is having is useless. Like Jensen Huang is at Nvidia because he was part of solving an actual geopolitical problem for Taiwan. The Gaokao is not relevant to this conversation IMO.
You're only considering America. China is the only competitor to the US on AI. Japan was the former competitor to the US in tech and economically, their companies still exist. South Korea and Taiwan are also tech powerhouses with roles for their citizens. India doesn't compare to east Asia's tech sector yet, there's not a single household name that's come out of there.
A lot of top talent are where they need to be, which for east Asia is at home, and for India is overseas.
Jensen Huang is up there because he founded the company. I would say most east Asians ceo up there because they founded the company. Very few are promoted from the bottom
Yeah seems like poster is confusing Jensen Huang/Nvidia (which was founded in the US 32 years ago with two other Americans and is a US company) with TSMC (which was founded by Morris Chang in Taiwan with the government's backing, and was personally recruited by the Taiwan government for his semiconductor expertise). Jensen also never did gaokao (or Taiwan's version of it) because he moved to the US as a kid at age nine, and in fact left Taiwan at age 5 to go to Thailand first.
Silicon Valley is full of Asian graduates from Berkeley and Stanford who dominate the workforce. But almost all of them are worker bees and seldom rise above middle management. Asians from San Jose State fare slightly worse but ironically end up competing for a lot of same jobs as their Berkeley and Stanford graduates.
I know this is a very unpopular opinion but maybe Asians should go into more blue collar trades but to be fair there are tons of Vietnamese and Filipinos and other Southeast Asian at least in California doing blue collar work. San Jose and the Bay Area in general is full of blue collar Asians. Even San Francisco has its fair share of Chinese blue collar workers. San Francisco State University produced a ton of blue collar Asians including two Asian American police chiefs of San Francisco.
I don't know people with zero knowledgeable write all these baseless stuffs. Have you ever worked at Tech in valley? Definitely not.
Asians are always dominating in valley. Most of the leading semiconductor companies are founded/run by asians like intel, Nvidia, broadcom, AMD, sambanova, cerebras, lam research, micron, Marvell tech etc. Several internet giants like YT, PayPal, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Twitch, Zoom, Fortinet, Snapchat, Pinterest have Asian American founders. This was even just during dot com era when east Asian American population in USA was only close to 1 percent. Today there are more east Asian founder than anyone.
Just go and check the the founders, founding team, early employees and even the VCs of most of those new gen tech companies. Almost all the AI companies have Asian founders like Openai, ScaleAi, cognition, perplexity, Cartesian, world labs, thinking machines, Pony AI, Nuro, etc. Almost 70 percent of YC founders in the recent years are all Asians.
Normies like you literally have no idea what Stanford grads do. You are fool if you think that they get some random ass FAANG job which even ASU grads can
How many of us who had the option to go into a white collar job, voluntarily pick a blue collar one though? Like for all the people pushing for it, everyone I know seems to prefer a tech or finance job with a nice A/C office and remote work instead of sweating away doing roofing/plumbing or being a cashier at a boba shop. I think something like 75% of Asians in their 20s and 30s went to college. Running a restaurant is also very hard, I had some friends who helped with their family Chinese restaurant but they picked the tech/finance internships ASAP lol
Tech and finance and i-banking have long ass hours though. 70 to 80 hours weekly and even upwards of 100 hours is not uncommon. But there are obvious perks too. The benefits and pension are second to none. You can retire early like in your 40s if you save and invest wisely. A couple of my high school classmates who went to Stanford have ran VCs and just retired in their early 40s. They sold their company and one of them is now a docent at a museum and attending art classes while raising his kids. "No more stress" he tells me!
Blue collar work is AI resistant at least until humanoid robots get invented.
Looking down on blue collar workers is backwards thinking. Why? Because you need them to keep a country running.
Honestly this hits hard, I've seen this pattern too. The whole "model minority" thing seems to backfire when it comes to leadership positions - we're seen as good workers but not "leadership material" whatever that means
The blue collar route is actually smart though, lot of those trades pay better than white collar jobs these days and you can't outsource plumbing to India lol
The difference between East Asians and South Asians is that East Asians generally are singularly focused on one route to success: go Ivy or elite, get a prestigious job on Wall Street, Silicon Valley, medicine, research, academia, then get married, get a large suburban home, raise kids, lather rinse and repeat with the kids.
For South Asians that is certainly one path to success but not the only path. South Asians are encouraged to find creative avenues or other means of achieving financial success. They are not narrowly fixated on just going Ivy route.
IT in South Asia particularly India is a massive sector.
We don’t need more Asians ceos, they are justs glorified baby sitters who work for their founders overlords. However, we do need more Asian founders and in VC who will favour more Asians. They are the real innovators, the risk takers. But…. I still don’t see this happening. Imagine a program such as YC comb or Theil fellowship just for Asians. USA is too woke for this and Asians in general are too pussy to start this.
East Asians can only succeed by forming our own tech companies.
Look at Jensen Huang and Lisa Su. They are literally dominating AI all on their own. Indians were handed the reigns by white people. There's a difference. They did not start Google or Microsoft from scratch. They are merely glorified babysitters for someone else's ideas.
This is incorrect. Indian-Americans lead the creation of tech businesses in the US including billion-dollar "unicorn" businesses (see p. 4 of this report: https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Immigrant-Entrepreneurs-and-Billion-Dollar-Companies.DAY-OF-RELEASE.2022.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_1tLyu86RAxXkjIkEHQTVDhwQFnoECG4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3bZ6ki7FzspCUSwRCHDArI or an article summarizing the relevant results here: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/indians-top-in-immigrant-founders-of-us-unicorns/articleshow/93148144.cms).
Lisa Su is great but wasn't the founder of AMD. It was a bunch of white dudes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sanders_(businessman)). Despite being handed the reigns by white people I wouldn't call her a "glorified babysitter".
All the East Asians start businesses in the West, South Asians take over as CEO of an existing firm.
Purely cultural fit. East Asians respect hard work over self promotion. Guys like the founder of Alibaba or BYD, even if they spoke perfect English, would never ever make it in the West,
Also note the Indian diaspora can find more opportunities in the West given how far behind India is vs. China's scale and development.
There’s really no need to look too deep into it. It’s not because Indians are more talented but rather they have thicker skin and are more assertive. The culture is the biggest reason why east asians are not promoted CEOs. If East Asians were more comfortable with confrontation and communicated better then the skies the limit but until then, you’re stuck with the 100k-200k worker bee jobs.
I think a large part of it has to do with the more collective nature of East Asians. I've met very few east Asians who are obstructive to the greater goal of an organization for the sake of career advancement, (And that being seen at not being leadership material) Whereas South Asians tend to be more willing to do so.
Looking at the relative development trajectories of our respective home countries, I'm not sure that always doing it the way it works in America is always a good thing. Separate what you need to do to succeed in America vs. what is the best thing to do in all cases.
A lot of the success of the West is a historical accident. If we reversed the situation and the West has to catch up from where China was 50 years ago. I'm not sure they'd be able to do so. My advice for anyone frustrated is to pull a Morris Chang and start your own thing once you hit the bamboo ceiling instead of being someone that you're not.
Yes! Not wanting to rock the boat! Chief, I grew up in a condo where all the owners were Chinese and the first floor ran a dirty food business using their basement as the kitchen. It attracted a lot of pests and because they had a wholesaler deliver boxes and boxes of meats stacked on a dolly that was pushed down to their basement, the stairs were eventually destroyed.
My parents and the apartment next door to me were clearly upset and furious but they were both waiting for someone else to speak up lmaoo. You see how this is a problem? Nobody spoke up and the business is still going on today and the stairs to the basement are cracked beyond recognition. They all just silently endured. Now imagine people brought up in this type of culture being leaders and CEOs of companies worth trillions. It’s just not gonna work.
I personally think Morris Chang got hit with the bamboo ceiling because he was exactly the stereotypical Asian who has trouble voicing his concerns and stepping on people’s toes but once he got to Taiwan he was more confident because he had an overseas background and he was truly more talented than the locals at the time. I also believe because of his overseas background the locals also respected what he had to say which made it easier for him to lead!
It’s all infiltrated by Indians, mostly Indian CEOs, so they hire their own people into management and down the chain. East Asians don’t really stand a chance, as they are neither Indian nor white.
I know this because I used to work at one of these big tech companies, and my Indian manager discriminated against me. I was the only non-Indian person on the team, was never given any credit for my work, and they promoted an Indian colleague over me instead. I eventually left because I didn’t see a future at the company, as the team was completely dominated by Indians.
These kinds of thoughtless repetition of White Nationalist talking points mustn't make their way into our community. While your experience is unfortunate, it is not representative.
Nor does the overall point make sense. The OP was talking about CEOs; the boards of must companies are NOT Indian; so how are they convinced to hire an Indian as CEO?
White solidarity is the biggest factor in the US workforce. Whites want you to repeat their talking points, that actually the few times they don't get the CEO role is because of some racial dynamic. The real reason has to do with the immigrant pass and language factors.
Sorry that happened to you but I don't think your anecdotal experience is entirely representative of the tech sector.
My Indian manager used to gaslight me all the time too.
You could easily go fking check Google etc executive page. It isn't all Indian.