Specifically for USA origin travelers flying international.
as the years go by, its clear that award space is harder to get. and tbh, we cant be to picky. You get what you can find, is the game.
but assuming you can choose and have 1 leg as J/F class.
do you choose your USA departure as your J/F class. or your USA arrival leg as your J/F class?
The big consistent thing i have heard/read is that generally speaking, the food/catering options are much better if the origin of the flight is international (especially Asia as the departure). With USA being the origin often being the worse.
i have very limited experience flying J class (none flying F class), and that appears to be somewhat the case. but it could have been a fluke since i have a very small sample size.
im wondering if theres anything else to consider (thats STRICTLY under the control of the airline/flight/airport related. so not referring to things like time of flight, arrival time, personally need to be on J seat departing from USA because you need to work, etc. of course, feel free to share however.)
Outbound leg so you arrive rested.
This is the right answer. I usually take flights home that aren't overnight and purposely don't want to sleep on them so I can readjust my sleeping schedule to my home time zone. That said will usually still get business if I can.
There are two schools of thought on it. Do you want (transatlantic J) on the way there so that you can sleep comfortably, or do you want it on the way back while you’ll be awake to enjoy the fancy service?
Maybe I’m jaded but after flying enough J, I can’t personally classify anything as fancy enough to prioritise over sleep en route to the destination
First Class is a different story, on say Boston-FRA/MUC I’m prioritising First ex-Germany on the daytime flight
Same.
I’ve also been most everywhere I want to go already. It’s pretty much at least premium economy on longhaul or I’m staying home.
It is so interesting for me to hear “pretty much been everywhere I want to go already”. I wonder if I’ll ever feel that way… It sounds so content… So far seeing one place seems to add 3 more to my list 😂
I still go plenty of places. It’s just repeats now.
I’m probably older than you too. I’ve been playing the award game pretty big for the last 20 years.
The places might be new but the airline to get there isn't. At some point the seat itself is not new to you
Really depends on schedule, I usually prefer overnight as J because that makes the difference for sleep vs a daytime flight. Especially if the daytime flight has good wifi. Direction of travel matters, so typically it's eastbound flights that are overnight.
J is more critical on whichever leg I'm trying to get a long sleep on, typically the overnight USA-EUR
Priority goes to overnight flights first, then outbound flights second then daytime return flights last. I can sluggishly struggle through a day at home on no sleep, even if I have to go to work. I don't want to do that at my destination. When I go to visit my friends in Brazil, a 5 hour drive beginning in Sao Paulo traffic awaits me. I did that on no sleep once after flying overnight in Y, never again. I'm not sure how I even made it.
J on the overnight.
Factoring in what altitude does to taste, the best meal I’ll ever eat on an airplane in my whole life will be something like the 10th best meal I’ll eat during a given overseas vacation. It’s nicer to have the nicer soft product than not to have it, but I’m really just up there to sleep.
To me the value of the high quality food served in flight is diminished somewhat by the lounge food before the flight. J/F tickets come with lounge access, so decent food on the ground before the flight is assumed, for the most part. There are exceptions of course, such as when you fly SQ from JFK.
I think people overestimate the effect of the cabin altitude on taste. You think people in Denver can’t taste good food?
Largely agree with your main point tho.
The desert-dry air (10% humidity on older planes) has a lot to do with it too, and ~8k cabin altitude is a lot higher than even Denver…
That said yeah, new aircraft do make a noticeable difference to me. My meal on an AF 359 recently was genuinely good, to the point I thought “hey I wouldn’t have been mad about paying for this in a restaurant.” But that’s kinda damning by faint praise.
Ok, Vail then.
You think people in Denver live at 35k feet?
You think aircraft cabins are left unpressurized and that you are experiencing an altitude of 35k feet in flight?
I thought of that after I hit post and didn’t delete it. Fair play to you.
🤝
do the daytime flight in Y if you have to then
It depends, F I want a daytime flight so I can enjoy all the amenities.
J, give me the nighttime flight so I can sleep in the lie-flat seat.
Depends on O/D. For Asia <-> US I would do Y on the return leg (Asia -> US):
shorter
I would rather begin the vacation well rested
Depending on your job, very possibly it may not matter if you're more jetlagged and not quite firing on all cylinders the first day back at work
It is not universally true that Asia-origin lounges or food are better. For example, UA Polaris lounges are much nicer than ANA business class lounges which have the atmosphere of a cafeteria.
For US <-> Europe then the westward leg is more important to get good sleep on so you don't waste two days of vacation time being tired and angry.
Generally agree, although I am usually not tired or angry the first day after a US--> Europe flight given I sleep for more than an hour on a Y flight which usually is not a problem.
J for both or I'm staying home
Agreed. Traveling internationally is such a pain in the ass, if I’m not in business class I’m not going lol.
International yes. Inside the states or intra-Europe, I’ll often stick with premium economy since J isn’t layflat and the flights are a lot shorter, and I still somewhat have a budget.
I decided that for TATL I am OK with Y+ on my way home from the EU/UK.
J/F is all about the bed for me. I get that the meals are nicer, the wine is better, bigger screens, nicer lounges, etc but your ability to taste food is impeded at altitude anyway so a nice meal or wine on the ground WILL taste better than the same food and wine at 35,000 feet.
Trying to sleep on a morning/early afternoon departure for any length of time ex-EU/UK is a big ol' "lol, no, GTFO". I'd rather just power through a very long day on departure and reset for jet lag when I get home with a normal-ish bedtime. A Y+ seat is the bar (or "poor man's J" with an empty seat next to me, or even an empty row).
Conversely on departure from US West Coast going to bed after dinner gives you something resembling normal sleep patterns for your departure time.
(I also prefer midnight departures TPAC ex-USA for that exact reason.)
Some may say outbound leg so you arrive rested and still and fun part of the vacation to look forward to at the end.
Others would say departure so you arrive rested and have more time at your destination. Plus it’s a fun way to kick off vacation.
Transatlantic flights aren't long enough to get more than a couple hours of sleep even if you're in the front of the plane and have a comfortable lie down seat. So I get the thought process behind saying you'd rather have it on the way back and enjoy more of the service while you are awake on a day flight. But for me just having a couple hours of sleep and, more importantly, not having various aches from being cramped in a coach seat for 9 hours, allows me to actually make use of and enjoy my first day of vacation vs having it be a lost day. So I'd rather have it on the outgoing flight. Doubly so if it gets me access to an arrivals lounge where I can shower and change since I probably am going to arrive mid morning but not be able to get in to my hotel or AirBnB until mid afternoon.
Having a reconstructed knee, definitely the outbound leg. I don't wanna waste day one of my trip re-learning how to walk after 14 hours in economy.
return flight because US airports and lounges are ghetto. Catering is much better ex-intl as well.
You’ve clearly never been to a DeltaOne, United Polaris or Air Canada Signature Suite lounge
J on the overnight flight imo. So if NA to Asia, returning, and NA to Europe departing. I feel like jet lag is the easiest to deal with that way
Below are my criteria
For flights to Europe, I try to choose the longer return flight because the food difference isn’t that great, and return flights are usually in the am where I wouldn’t be able to sleep.
For flights to Asia, unless I’m flying ANA and JAL, I choose the flight to Asia because it’s usually 2 hours longer. If I’m flying ANA or JAL, I choose the flight ex Tokyo because of the much better catering
I really don’t care that much on departing airport lounge because I prefer to spend the least amount of time possible at an airport
I also don’t care as much for J flights under8 hours.
This is assuming that I only have points for business in one segment
“
Anything J longer than 7ish hours or I'll stay home.
If it's an overnight flight, business class all the way. For most Europe/Asia destinations this mean that it's J departing the USA and E or PE coming back to the USA
Fully recognize this is a “me” problem but this also depends on airline honestly. There’s a ton of airlines that run their cabin ludicrously hot such that sleep, even in a lie-flat, can become a challenge for those like me who run hot (read: fat fucks). Iberia? Give me the return so I can enjoy delicious Spanish food and wine catered ex-Spain without worrying about tossing and turning in their sauna-ass cabins. BA? Opposite - IDGAF about British food and have been able to sleep on their cabins better.
For me it would be the return so I have something to look forward to towards the end of my vacation.
Outbound leg to kick off the trip in an exciting way.
Inbound leg, I'm usually so beat from the trip that I knock out no matter what. So I'm okay with suffering through economy. I was so exhausted from a weekslong backpacking trip that I slept almost the entirety of the 18 hour return flight in economy middle seat.
Too many variables.
My most common one is JFK-LHR-JFK and I’ll happily do PY for the 8am VS flight but nearly always J on th return. If I’m not on the morning flight to LHR, then it’s J on the night flight just for the bed.
Also, I’m probably insane, but I’ve done JFK-IST-LHR a few times in J since this way I can sleep for good 6-8 hours overnight vs 3-5 hours if I do JFK-LHR.
ALWAYS picking J to fly back to the US. I care more about 7-8 hours while I’m awake, than 7-8 hours while I’m asleep. Also why J availability is a lot tougher in that direction lol
You dont want lie flat to sleep on red eye? Day time flight transatlantic west bound you can just chil and watch tv
Personally, I sleep pretty well in premium economy, so I’m usually okay. I value my comfort, the food and the space, while I’m awake ..a lot more..
If it’s a non U.S. airline, I’d want to fly premium arriving into U.S. so I can get the full ground experience of the airline’s hub.
The overnight leg 100%. I struggle to sleep if I'm not laying flat.
It depends on the airline. For ANA Japan Airline, I didn't notice much difference in terms of catering. For SIA, US departure is much worse than US arrival.
I can’t sleep sitting up so if it’s an overnight flight I prefer it on that leg. If neither are overnight I like it on the return because on the outbound I’m just excited to get there
I’ve learned for star alliance partners a roundtrip biz class ticket only gets you Polaris lounge access for departing the US not arriving (hub is my layover).
So for me - biz class out, non biz back to the states. Additionally, priority pass lounges excel in foreign countries so it works out on international departure.
I kinda like outbound because it’s fun to start your trip excited but return is good too because usually I’m hungover and a bed would be nice.
Eastbound redeye almost always. Getting sleep when necessary is of utmost importance imo
Return.
I need to be “on” at work so J flying back. I can do Y to start the trip since I’ll be excited and out and about or lounging by a pool and napping. I don’t want to go home and want another vacation/be more tired.
I’ve got one booked leaving the US. Coming back will be in economy. They are both overnight flights.
I personally prioritize outbound more than return. It’s a fabulous start to a trip