Press statement made by police 2 hours ago. Pretty tight lipped other than they were known to vic police and they were released pending further investigation. On u tube ABC
I feel like the only reason why they're saying anything is because it is a very public arrest.
I had an ex-cop friend who worked in NSW decades ago who managed to find terrorists who were planning to attack people in a public area...they arrested quietly & the public knew nothing about it.
The fact that they've all been released already speaks to at least the possibility, if not the likelihood that whatever evidence/belief the cops operated on here was not that serious.
One guy was ‘known ‘ to ASIO so they rammed 2 cars and arrested 7 people. They then couldn’t find any evidence and had to let them go. That’s a fuck up.
lol getting downvoted by people who’ve got no idea how things work.
You might have a belief or suspicion that someone is committing/about to commit an offence. It may be enough to arrest and interview, but not yet charge someone. It happens every day of the week.
You really don't understand counter terrorism law. You don't really need cause at all.
"Doing a thing" or being in "possession of a thing" is literally in the legislation.
Massive amounts of counter terrorism legislation was rammed through that the public don't realise.
Ive had discussions with legal professionals at all levels who are very sure that being innocent until proven guilty applies in all areas of Australian law.
It simply doesn't in counter terrorism legislation. You are not innocent until proven guilty.
And here's the thing.
THE ONLY COPS WHO HAVE TOTAL IMMUNITY FROM PROSECUTION ARE COUNTER TERRORISM POLICE.
Edit: these laws are the closest thing we have to legit thought crimes. They are not in choate laws like 'conspiracy to commit' or 'attempted' whatever. You have to do 'a thing' or have 'a thing'.
I get a bit edgy about it. Theyre pretty bad. I majored in counter terrorism law and was horrified to the point i knew i wanted nothing to do with it.
What's frustrating is how its applied.
Pro Palentine marches are being linked to antisematism. Not true for the average Australian protester. It was human rights, not antisematism.
But, pretty reasonably, Jewish Australians watched people amongst those marches being antisemetic and carrying symbols of terrorists.
If those people amongst that protest were charged, those links wouldn't be made. And they absolutely should have been arrested and charged.
Pro Palestinian protesters could easily say they gatecrashed and Jewish Australians would have seen the clear distinction.
Those laws apply to white supremacists too. Shut that shit down too.
But they haven't. It's questionable because now is when they use them??? When it behooves authorities to do so???
Like i said, I get a bit passionate about it but they are so egregious.
And there are very reasonable reasons why these two terrorists could fly under the radar. There are some unique aspects. They should just be honest with the public.
This situation is odd. The cops said they’re not sure they had enough for charges. But they had enough to warrant smashing into a car head on and arresting 7 people. Would be interesting to know what was said to them to cause this reaction.
there’s video of some of the seven talking to media after they were released. apparently someone overheard the group refer to “Bondi 2.0” although the context in which that happened is unclear. combined with the group then driving towards Bondi that was sufficient for the cops to take preventative action.
theyre definitely religious, one said he fears “nothing but allah”, however the general vibe in the media interview suggests that maybe these guys were just wrong place wrong time. it is unclear.
To answer most peoples in this thread question here is the quote from the police spokesmen
“It’s a balance when you investigate, for investigators and for the counter-terrorism police, as to interdicting at a point in time where you mitigate all risk and threat, which we did yesterday, or waiting until you can get a brief of evidence against individuals with a bow on it that you can present to court,” Hudson said
Which translated to plain English basically means that had two tenths of fuck all, but figured that violating the civil rights of 7 innocent people was better optics than another attack.
Could also say what if they were in the final stages of a terrorist attack and the police didn't arrest them and they went on to kill a bunch of people?
Everyone would be saying why didn't the police stop them.
So you'd be happy to have your car rammed and be arrested because the cops believed, with zero evidence, that you were going to commit a crime?
Because that's what we're talking about here.
The pigs rammed their car, found no guns, no plans, no evidence whatsoever and did it purely because they were Muslim and Australians are fucking cheering it on.
Doing shit like this is how you get domestic terrorists because it sends a clear message that if you're Muslim you're not a proper Australian in the eyes of way too fucking many people.
People are happy with that because last weekend is still so fresh and people are understandably upset.
But shit like this puts us on a crash course for Trump style authoritarianism where our rights become non existent and we have ICE style police scooping people up on mere suspicion based on looks and outward identity. Not good at all.
Agree, if there's enough suspicious activity and evidence that something bad is about to happen even if they didn't have enough evidence to keep them at least lets the people know that they're being watched. There's no way fully innocent people are getting arrested
Ik it’s not exactly the pinnacle of verifiable evidence to reddits standards but people who know the guys and a few pages online have said they were a bunch of kids on their way to an airbnb and interviews from outside the police station show it’s a bunch of teens, teens who were stomped on, tasered and bashed by the cops then released without charge after the media painted them as a foiled terror plot
Just to clarify for the people who can’t seem to comprehend this: stopping something from happening can sometimes look underwhelming. You might even have to release the people you caught.
But you stopped something.
If there was a win here, they might be celebrating with champagne in the office at ASIO right now.
My understanding, which is admittedly limited, is that our anti-terrorism allow suspects to held for up to 14 days under preventive orders if there’s evidence of their intention to commit a terrorist act.
Also, sometimes you might make mistakes. You could understand why they might err on the side of caution at the moment. Caution being risk arresting the wrong people if there is a chance it might save lives.
People are unbelievable, they complain that our agencies didn't do enough to stop the Bondi attack (sounds like true), but then also complain if agencies are over zealous. It's a tricky balance.
If the police were acting above board rather than shooting from the hip they would have had enough evidence to detain these people rather than releasing them immediately.
I've heard that at big events like Sydney Olympics this happens quite often. People are intercepted, whatever it is gets stopped, and it most often never hits the media.
I think it would be smart if they clarify where this tip came from. Public, government agencies either foreign or domestic??. And what does it actually mean to be known to police??. I think transparency has to be at the forefront when media wants clickbait and public tensions are high.
holy shit that's some hardcore knee jerk reaction by the authorities.
from what I just read they had absolutely 0 evidence this group was doing anything..and then failed to find any shred of wrong doing.
dangerous slippery slope we are approaching.
also do this poor fucks get a new car?
imagine some fuckwits ramming your car headon while youre about living your life?
When I heard where they were arrested I was confused. Especially as they were saying ‘on the way to Bondi’ If that was the case they wouldn’t be where they were stopped. (And I asked if they were intending to do something at Westfields)
Not publicly announcing evidence doesn’t mean there was no evidence. The evidence could be classified information or potentially compromise an investigation, which was already announced as being conducted by ASIO on one of them. Additionally they had a knife with them.
So “hardcore knee jerk reaction with 0 evidence” is an interesting way to describe intercepting a vehicle containing a man under investigation by ASIO with a deadly weapon, potentially en-route to a largely populated area.
You do not have the answers yet so it’s stupid to make assumptions. I am sure you would have also complained if nothing was done and the headline was “Man under investigation by ASIO commits mass stabbing in Bondi beach”
One man with a knife literally killed 6 people in bondi only one year ago. I swear some of you people have the memory of a goldfish.
Counter terrorism police also are the only cops who have immunity from prosecution.
It's low risk for ASIO (who've already been in the mix and not looking great) and everyone involved.
The public have no idea how outrageous counter terrorism laws are.
And most of us will never be subject to them. So they became law, en masse, with very little scrutiny.
Only thing that got any notice was the Telecommunications Act changes and that was only because reporters were likely to lose the right to protect sources.
But forget innocent until proven guilty. It simply doesnt apply under counter terrorism law. It's also not beyond reasonable doubt, its on balance of probabilities.
These laws can VERY EASILY be abused by those in power. It would be awful if that was the legacy of the Bondi Massacre.
And there was also the poor guy who got shot in England for wearing a puffer jacket. Let’s not pretend it’s all about undisclosed information. This is a perfect time for mistakes to happen because concerns are high.
Not publicly announcing evidence doesn’t mean there was no evidence
True, but we can infer that if there was such evidence, they surely would not have been released the next day when the powers used to detain them allow that to continue until next week before it's necessary to lay charges.
stupid to make assumptions
A logical inference is not an assumption. An example of an assumption would be to suggest that the authorities have been embarrassed by criticism of potential intelligence failures in relation to the Bondi attack, and have acted excessively aggressively here.
It may not always be able to be released even if the officers know it is true, especially if it has a low chance of sticking in court.
Imagine if a cop is told by someone in a park that they saw a bag of meth about 5m from a junkie and that person picked up the bag and gave it to the officer. The officer knows the junkie asleep on the bench quite well and knows that he has a history of meth abuse, and is well aware that the 60 year old female kindergarten teacher that just handed in the bag of meth likely didn’t genuinely possess the meth herself.
Now this officer likely knows that the meth is all but certainly from the junkie asleep on the bench, however there is a poor chain of custody for the evidence and it is extremely difficult to prove possession for the junkie asleep on the bench. This is how a law enforcement agency can have evidence that is almost certainly correct, and know that somebody has committed a crime, but not have the proper evidence to charge them with a crime.
If you now bridge that concept with counter-terrorism and bring in confidential informants, etc you can see how some evidence may be insufficient or unable to be used in court to charge someone with conspiracy to commit murder or terrorism.
Sure but it doesn't paint the whole picture. What we do know is that at least one of the seven was on a watchlist but the police are tight lipped about everything else, whether for example, they were planning on picking up weapons elsewhere etc. Them being released doesn't necessarily prove or disprove that.
I agree with you it's an odd story and it could have been handled better but given how ASIO dropped the ball with the Bondi shooter being on a watchlist, I'm not surprised the authorities are going to be pouncing at any other red flag.
Ah ok thanks, all the reporting made it seem like he was being watched but was deemed as low risk. But either way, ASIO fumbled something with him and rightly or wrongly one of the consequences is going to be a degree of overcompensation by the authorities.
do you even think about the dribble you write mate? "compromise an investigation"...like doing a farcical spectacle in front of the nation like they did? do you think that wouldnt compromise any investigations 😂.
the arrest you call a “spectacle” could have prevented a terrorist attack, You and I do not know the intelligence that was acted on by the police in this situation. If you can’t even accept the concept that the federal police and “SECRET” intelligence organisation cannot immediately and publicly release all classified evidence regarding an arrest involving potential terrorism to the media, then I don’t know what to tell you. Clearly you have no understanding of law enforcement and the Australian legal system functions.
All I am saying is dont make assumptions about a situation without the full picture, which neither of us have.
You realise to plant the weapons at the scene they will have to travel to the scene at some point, right? the weapons can’t magically teleport there, so why wouldn’t they just take them in one trip….
No they didn't. They have the ability to detain without charges under counter-terrorism law if that was true. They're spinning a yarn to look better to the public.
there’s a difference between believing radical Islam and enacting it through violence on others. entirely possible this group is known to ASIO based on things they’ve said, but there isn‘t any current indication they intend to inflict harm on others
Oh fuck off, this is the type of shit thinking that let the 'China Initiative' in the US get out of hand. Sometimes authorities overreact theatrically for political reasons.
And they are paying for it as we speak with potentially hundreds of Qian Xuesens every year.
“It’s a balance when you investigate, for investigators and for the counter-terrorism police, as to interdicting at a point in time where you mitigate all risk and threat, which we did yesterday, or waiting until you can get a brief of evidence against individuals with a bow on it that you can present to court,” Hudson said
translation: we fucked up bad. so we going use big words like interdict and mitigate to deflect the monumental stuff up.
I wish people in authority would just admit they fucked up and not try to play the public for fools.
no accountability.
no they wherent. one person was on a watch list and that was enough for them to trigger such an absolute farce of a show. and people like you are lapping it up.
You realise investigations and “watchlists” aren’t created by spinning a wheel of random australians right, they are based on actionable intelligence and “evidence”, some of which cannot be released to the public. You are making assumptions about information which you do not know.
so youre saying they are tottaly incompetent because their actions have now compromised every single one of their "intelligence " and "evidence" they might have had?
You do not know if this has compromised an investigation or intelligence because you have no knowledge of the intelligence or investigation. You do not know if the decision to arrest these men was appropriate because again, you have no knowledge of the intelligence or investigation.
😂😂😂😂
the arrest video litteraly has been posted all over the world.
you have to be pretty god damn stupid to think there was no compromise if there was some sort of investigation.
well...i shouldn't be divulging state secrets. but what the heck..its almost xmass and I'm on holidays!
I have spoken to the minister of intelligence holding alongside with the under secretary of counter terrorism.
and they have corroborated all my questions regarding the article mentioned in the original post.
if you have further questions have your people contact my people. they know how to reach me.
5 days ago we experienced the deadliest terror attack in Australia’s history - and the largest mass shooting in Australian history overall since Port Arthur.
You can downplay it all you want - but currently, because of the actions 5 days ago, Islamic extremism will be the focus. Remember when those Nazi cunts marched through our capital cities and that was all we talked about for a month? But nah, you reckon 5 days is enough. Dog.
All I remember is the cops acting all jovial with the Nazis, in stark contrast to the way that they go bananas at Palestine protestors (or any other protestors that aren’t Nazis).
Were they assaulted whilst in custody? Were they held for the ridiculous week without charges anti terror law allows?
I'm really struggling to see the overreach here, which NSW Police are famous for, but there was an ASIO alert in the wake of the horrific attack and as far as I can see no heavy handedness apart from the car damage
They literally DID do their job lol are you dense? They stopped a potential attack according to their intelligence, and released them since they haven't done anything cause they were stopped from carrying out said attack. How is it that hard to grasp for you?
Istg dude, its a really tricky situation and many people are calling for action... if you have an idea on how to better tackle this, please make it known to your local MP.
OP is just looking for a reason to be mad at police, rather this than hearing about them having to detain these men after another tragic event. The fact that one of these individuals is on a watchlist is enough for erring on the side of caution you never know when it suddenly goes from thinking about it to action.
I think it’s okay to raise suspicions and be suspicious to this sudden raid. If you’ve been around for the war on terror and seen the impacts it’s has on our Muslim community you kinda get why. I personally am super suss on this raid as well. I think we need transparency and the government and ASIO are not providing us that, allowing suspicions to rise.
I hope there are some answers as to what happened here, as there's so little information.
Press statement made by police 2 hours ago. Pretty tight lipped other than they were known to vic police and they were released pending further investigation. On u tube ABC
I feel like the only reason why they're saying anything is because it is a very public arrest.
I had an ex-cop friend who worked in NSW decades ago who managed to find terrorists who were planning to attack people in a public area...they arrested quietly & the public knew nothing about it.
It all depends what type of arrest you are doing.
Street snatch or arrest of opportunity are usually done in public away from the residence for a number of reasons.
They need to show they're doing something
It's very confusing. I doubt they'll release much as it seems like a fuck up
Because police and ASIO had nothing and just want to placate the public
Dunno why this is getting down voted.
The fact that they've all been released already speaks to at least the possibility, if not the likelihood that whatever evidence/belief the cops operated on here was not that serious.
Because it’s utterly stupid.
One guy was ‘known ‘ to ASIO so they rammed 2 cars and arrested 7 people. They then couldn’t find any evidence and had to let them go. That’s a fuck up.
Good job bro. Really.
Oh yeah that’s totally what happened 🙄
Why were they released without charge?
Security theatre, or a message to persons of interest.
Because sometimes you need to review evidence before you charge someone….
Now I’m just spit balling here but I’d assume you need decent evidence to raid 7 men?
Evidently not, given they just did that, held them overnight, and released them without charge.
Or they could have had a tip off, or one or more of them were previously known to law enforcement for associating with dangerous individuals.
There’s plenty of reasons why the police, already on edge, would deploy a response unit to detain people they’re already monitoring.
I don't know any more either but I'd bet my hat that's what happened.
lol getting downvoted by people who’ve got no idea how things work.
You might have a belief or suspicion that someone is committing/about to commit an offence. It may be enough to arrest and interview, but not yet charge someone. It happens every day of the week.
Yeah that sounds a lot like harassment. Either that or incompetence.
Well not the same person every day of the week.
That would be a bit average.
You really don't understand counter terrorism law. You don't really need cause at all.
"Doing a thing" or being in "possession of a thing" is literally in the legislation.
Massive amounts of counter terrorism legislation was rammed through that the public don't realise.
Ive had discussions with legal professionals at all levels who are very sure that being innocent until proven guilty applies in all areas of Australian law.
It simply doesn't in counter terrorism legislation. You are not innocent until proven guilty.
And here's the thing.
THE ONLY COPS WHO HAVE TOTAL IMMUNITY FROM PROSECUTION ARE COUNTER TERRORISM POLICE.
Edit: these laws are the closest thing we have to legit thought crimes. They are not in choate laws like 'conspiracy to commit' or 'attempted' whatever. You have to do 'a thing' or have 'a thing'.
You’re correct, I don’t understand so thanks for shining some light.
That’s some cooked laws we’ve got and I’m remembering the FriendlyJordies case and how they used the counter terrorism police to intimidate.
I get a bit edgy about it. Theyre pretty bad. I majored in counter terrorism law and was horrified to the point i knew i wanted nothing to do with it.
What's frustrating is how its applied.
Pro Palentine marches are being linked to antisematism. Not true for the average Australian protester. It was human rights, not antisematism.
But, pretty reasonably, Jewish Australians watched people amongst those marches being antisemetic and carrying symbols of terrorists.
If those people amongst that protest were charged, those links wouldn't be made. And they absolutely should have been arrested and charged.
Pro Palestinian protesters could easily say they gatecrashed and Jewish Australians would have seen the clear distinction.
Those laws apply to white supremacists too. Shut that shit down too.
But they haven't. It's questionable because now is when they use them??? When it behooves authorities to do so???
Like i said, I get a bit passionate about it but they are so egregious.
And there are very reasonable reasons why these two terrorists could fly under the radar. There are some unique aspects. They should just be honest with the public.
The laws are so very easily abused.
I appreciate you, keep being passionate. More people need to be aware how these laws are being abused!
This situation is odd. The cops said they’re not sure they had enough for charges. But they had enough to warrant smashing into a car head on and arresting 7 people. Would be interesting to know what was said to them to cause this reaction.
there’s video of some of the seven talking to media after they were released. apparently someone overheard the group refer to “Bondi 2.0” although the context in which that happened is unclear. combined with the group then driving towards Bondi that was sufficient for the cops to take preventative action.
theyre definitely religious, one said he fears “nothing but allah”, however the general vibe in the media interview suggests that maybe these guys were just wrong place wrong time. it is unclear.
To answer most peoples in this thread question here is the quote from the police spokesmen
“It’s a balance when you investigate, for investigators and for the counter-terrorism police, as to interdicting at a point in time where you mitigate all risk and threat, which we did yesterday, or waiting until you can get a brief of evidence against individuals with a bow on it that you can present to court,” Hudson said
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/men-arrested-on-way-to-bondi-could-be-released-within-hours-police-20251219-p5noyl.html
Which translated to plain English basically means that had two tenths of fuck all, but figured that violating the civil rights of 7 innocent people was better optics than another attack.
and violate their rights in a spectacular and reckless fashion. imagine someone had been seriously hurt or killed. then what?
Could also say what if they were in the final stages of a terrorist attack and the police didn't arrest them and they went on to kill a bunch of people?
Everyone would be saying why didn't the police stop them.
Possibly, but we live in a free society which means that arresting people without evidence because they might be up to something. IS FUCKING WRONG.
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if the police had evidence of that they wouldn't have been released.
So you'd be happy to have your car rammed and be arrested because the cops believed, with zero evidence, that you were going to commit a crime?
Because that's what we're talking about here.
The pigs rammed their car, found no guns, no plans, no evidence whatsoever and did it purely because they were Muslim and Australians are fucking cheering it on.
Doing shit like this is how you get domestic terrorists because it sends a clear message that if you're Muslim you're not a proper Australian in the eyes of way too fucking many people.
People are happy with that because last weekend is still so fresh and people are understandably upset.
But shit like this puts us on a crash course for Trump style authoritarianism where our rights become non existent and we have ICE style police scooping people up on mere suspicion based on looks and outward identity. Not good at all.
On what basis would you think they were going to do that?
Agree, if there's enough suspicious activity and evidence that something bad is about to happen even if they didn't have enough evidence to keep them at least lets the people know that they're being watched. There's no way fully innocent people are getting arrested
Oh you sweet summer child.
I so don't want to live in an Australia where people genuinely believe that if the cops arrested you you must be guilty.
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Fully innocent people get arrested and for that matter imprisoned all the fucking time.
Yeah this sub can be so anti police it's wild sometimes
Ik it’s not exactly the pinnacle of verifiable evidence to reddits standards but people who know the guys and a few pages online have said they were a bunch of kids on their way to an airbnb and interviews from outside the police station show it’s a bunch of teens, teens who were stomped on, tasered and bashed by the cops then released without charge after the media painted them as a foiled terror plot
Now that is beyond fucked if verified true.
For fucks sake, what the fuck are we doing? No seriously? What the fuck are we doing?
It’s called security theatre.
Bingo. Public demands action, so order goes out to arrest a few people , make a scene of it, get lots of photos, then let it disappear
Just to clarify for the people who can’t seem to comprehend this: stopping something from happening can sometimes look underwhelming. You might even have to release the people you caught. But you stopped something.
If there was a win here, they might be celebrating with champagne in the office at ASIO right now.
This seems like people did their jobs.
My understanding is they are releasing them without charges, doesn’t that mean they don’t have any actual evidence they were going to do anything?
Correct. It just means they didn't have enough evidence to hold them.
Either way. It's a warning shot "over the bow" so to speak.
My understanding, which is admittedly limited, is that our anti-terrorism allow suspects to held for up to 14 days under preventive orders if there’s evidence of their intention to commit a terrorist act.
This 👆👆👆👆👆👆 Everyone stop reaching, if there’s a wiff of a real threat people get detained not released
bingo
Also, sometimes you might make mistakes. You could understand why they might err on the side of caution at the moment. Caution being risk arresting the wrong people if there is a chance it might save lives.
People are unbelievable, they complain that our agencies didn't do enough to stop the Bondi attack (sounds like true), but then also complain if agencies are over zealous. It's a tricky balance.
Lol they rammed two cars off the road on the basis of an anonymous tip, beat a bunch of innocent young people up and detained them without charge.
If that's 'doing their job' then I think we have a problem.
Or seven men known to police travelling up to Sydney together in convoy in the wake of a targeted massacre.
How is that not police doing their job you muppet.
If the police were acting above board rather than shooting from the hip they would have had enough evidence to detain these people rather than releasing them immediately.
I've heard that at big events like Sydney Olympics this happens quite often. People are intercepted, whatever it is gets stopped, and it most often never hits the media.
I bet those people aren’t released the next day.
I think it would be smart if they clarify where this tip came from. Public, government agencies either foreign or domestic??. And what does it actually mean to be known to police??. I think transparency has to be at the forefront when media wants clickbait and public tensions are high.
holy shit that's some hardcore knee jerk reaction by the authorities. from what I just read they had absolutely 0 evidence this group was doing anything..and then failed to find any shred of wrong doing. dangerous slippery slope we are approaching.
also do this poor fucks get a new car? imagine some fuckwits ramming your car headon while youre about living your life?
When I heard where they were arrested I was confused. Especially as they were saying ‘on the way to Bondi’ If that was the case they wouldn’t be where they were stopped. (And I asked if they were intending to do something at Westfields)
It’s odd the whole thing.
Not publicly announcing evidence doesn’t mean there was no evidence. The evidence could be classified information or potentially compromise an investigation, which was already announced as being conducted by ASIO on one of them. Additionally they had a knife with them.
So “hardcore knee jerk reaction with 0 evidence” is an interesting way to describe intercepting a vehicle containing a man under investigation by ASIO with a deadly weapon, potentially en-route to a largely populated area.
You do not have the answers yet so it’s stupid to make assumptions. I am sure you would have also complained if nothing was done and the headline was “Man under investigation by ASIO commits mass stabbing in Bondi beach”
One man with a knife literally killed 6 people in bondi only one year ago. I swear some of you people have the memory of a goldfish.
You don't need cause for counter terrorism law.
Counter terrorism police also are the only cops who have immunity from prosecution.
It's low risk for ASIO (who've already been in the mix and not looking great) and everyone involved.
The public have no idea how outrageous counter terrorism laws are.
And most of us will never be subject to them. So they became law, en masse, with very little scrutiny.
Only thing that got any notice was the Telecommunications Act changes and that was only because reporters were likely to lose the right to protect sources.
But forget innocent until proven guilty. It simply doesnt apply under counter terrorism law. It's also not beyond reasonable doubt, its on balance of probabilities.
These laws can VERY EASILY be abused by those in power. It would be awful if that was the legacy of the Bondi Massacre.
And there was also the poor guy who got shot in England for wearing a puffer jacket. Let’s not pretend it’s all about undisclosed information. This is a perfect time for mistakes to happen because concerns are high.
True, but we can infer that if there was such evidence, they surely would not have been released the next day when the powers used to detain them allow that to continue until next week before it's necessary to lay charges.
A logical inference is not an assumption. An example of an assumption would be to suggest that the authorities have been embarrassed by criticism of potential intelligence failures in relation to the Bondi attack, and have acted excessively aggressively here.
It may not always be able to be released even if the officers know it is true, especially if it has a low chance of sticking in court.
Imagine if a cop is told by someone in a park that they saw a bag of meth about 5m from a junkie and that person picked up the bag and gave it to the officer. The officer knows the junkie asleep on the bench quite well and knows that he has a history of meth abuse, and is well aware that the 60 year old female kindergarten teacher that just handed in the bag of meth likely didn’t genuinely possess the meth herself.
Now this officer likely knows that the meth is all but certainly from the junkie asleep on the bench, however there is a poor chain of custody for the evidence and it is extremely difficult to prove possession for the junkie asleep on the bench. This is how a law enforcement agency can have evidence that is almost certainly correct, and know that somebody has committed a crime, but not have the proper evidence to charge them with a crime.
If you now bridge that concept with counter-terrorism and bring in confidential informants, etc you can see how some evidence may be insufficient or unable to be used in court to charge someone with conspiracy to commit murder or terrorism.
7 blokes in a car with one knife isn’t exactly compelling evidence.
Knife could be a letter opener or a box cutter
Well we do know what they can achieve with box cutters 😒
Box cutters are illegal?
In NSW, carrying a box cutter in public without a "reasonable excuse" is illegal.
Well if it was a box cutter, then they must have had a reasonable excuse for carrying it
They’re likely referring to 9/11
Sure but it doesn't paint the whole picture. What we do know is that at least one of the seven was on a watchlist but the police are tight lipped about everything else, whether for example, they were planning on picking up weapons elsewhere etc. Them being released doesn't necessarily prove or disprove that.
I agree with you it's an odd story and it could have been handled better but given how ASIO dropped the ball with the Bondi shooter being on a watchlist, I'm not surprised the authorities are going to be pouncing at any other red flag.
The Bondi shooter was not necessarily on a watch list - they had been investigated 6 years ago. That doesn’t mean active monitoring
Ah ok thanks, all the reporting made it seem like he was being watched but was deemed as low risk. But either way, ASIO fumbled something with him and rightly or wrongly one of the consequences is going to be a degree of overcompensation by the authorities.
do you even think about the dribble you write mate? "compromise an investigation"...like doing a farcical spectacle in front of the nation like they did? do you think that wouldnt compromise any investigations 😂.
the arrest you call a “spectacle” could have prevented a terrorist attack, You and I do not know the intelligence that was acted on by the police in this situation. If you can’t even accept the concept that the federal police and “SECRET” intelligence organisation cannot immediately and publicly release all classified evidence regarding an arrest involving potential terrorism to the media, then I don’t know what to tell you. Clearly you have no understanding of law enforcement and the Australian legal system functions.
All I am saying is dont make assumptions about a situation without the full picture, which neither of us have.
ooooh "SECRET" intelligence organisation! 😄 sooo...where is their intelligence then? why are this young men walking free?
you’re really asking “why isn’t the secret intelligence of the secret intelligence organisation in the news”
…
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You realise to plant the weapons at the scene they will have to travel to the scene at some point, right? the weapons can’t magically teleport there, so why wouldn’t they just take them in one trip….
they had to have something on them if the head of ASIO, AFP and NSW police held a brief about them before the arrest.
No they didn't. They have the ability to detain without charges under counter-terrorism law if that was true. They're spinning a yarn to look better to the public.
Then how come that “something” hasn’t stuck?
there’s a difference between believing radical Islam and enacting it through violence on others. entirely possible this group is known to ASIO based on things they’ve said, but there isn‘t any current indication they intend to inflict harm on others
Oh fuck off, this is the type of shit thinking that let the 'China Initiative' in the US get out of hand. Sometimes authorities overreact theatrically for political reasons.
And they are paying for it as we speak with potentially hundreds of Qian Xuesens every year.
"how can we pretend like we're doing something to protect society" - The something they had
“BE PROACTIVE!” “WAIT NO, NOT LIKE THAT!”
“It’s a balance when you investigate, for investigators and for the counter-terrorism police, as to interdicting at a point in time where you mitigate all risk and threat, which we did yesterday, or waiting until you can get a brief of evidence against individuals with a bow on it that you can present to court,” Hudson said
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/men-arrested-on-way-to-bondi-could-be-released-within-hours-police-20251219-p5noyl.html
translation: we fucked up bad. so we going use big words like interdict and mitigate to deflect the monumental stuff up. I wish people in authority would just admit they fucked up and not try to play the public for fools. no accountability.
People will be so anti police on this sub they will have the worst takes.
It seems the people arrested were not model citizens and one person in particular is known to national security agencies.
Obviously we don't know what asio knows but I'm sure these people were not just going for a leisure drive from Melbourne to Sydney
oh really? so they got released so they can continue with their nefarious plan 😄
Not everything is a big conspiracy lol
sounds like something a conspirator would say 🤔
Walsh street style policing at best
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They were known the authorities
no they wherent. one person was on a watch list and that was enough for them to trigger such an absolute farce of a show. and people like you are lapping it up.
You realise investigations and “watchlists” aren’t created by spinning a wheel of random australians right, they are based on actionable intelligence and “evidence”, some of which cannot be released to the public. You are making assumptions about information which you do not know.
so youre saying they are tottaly incompetent because their actions have now compromised every single one of their "intelligence " and "evidence" they might have had?
You do not know if this has compromised an investigation or intelligence because you have no knowledge of the intelligence or investigation. You do not know if the decision to arrest these men was appropriate because again, you have no knowledge of the intelligence or investigation.
😂😂😂😂 the arrest video litteraly has been posted all over the world. you have to be pretty god damn stupid to think there was no compromise if there was some sort of investigation.
People like you would be the first to complain if they failed to stop this person and something happened.
"from what I just read"
Have you read the intelligence holdings? Did you attend the briefing? Who have you spoken to at Counter Terrorism?
You seem to know a lot about this.
well...i shouldn't be divulging state secrets. but what the heck..its almost xmass and I'm on holidays! I have spoken to the minister of intelligence holding alongside with the under secretary of counter terrorism. and they have corroborated all my questions regarding the article mentioned in the original post. if you have further questions have your people contact my people. they know how to reach me.
How does someone even end up on an ISIS watch list, do they send out newsletters or something ?
I dont understand, what information do they have, are they liking a facebook page ??
Does this mean the government knows what someone is, nazi, isis etc etc and until they do something they can still like those things ?
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You can say “Jews”. You know you want to.
Sounds like the only offence underway was being brown in public.
NSW police are a clown show.
Can people please understand:
You will never fully know what is going on.
Everything is calculated and has a purpose.
There are methodologies at play that here you are not aware of.
Draw whatever inferences you like but unless you have a background in CT or National Security, it's just an uneducated opinion.
First they came for the Communists and I did not speak out, because I was not a Communist.
The useless cops tried to look tough after they totally failed to stop the attack. Typical bully behavior. Clowns.
Brown ppl can’t hang out now hmmm
Keep going on about radical Islamic extremism, Nazis must be feeling happy that the media spotlight is off them for now.
5 days ago we experienced the deadliest terror attack in Australia’s history - and the largest mass shooting in Australian history overall since Port Arthur.
You can downplay it all you want - but currently, because of the actions 5 days ago, Islamic extremism will be the focus. Remember when those Nazi cunts marched through our capital cities and that was all we talked about for a month? But nah, you reckon 5 days is enough. Dog.
All I remember is the cops acting all jovial with the Nazis, in stark contrast to the way that they go bananas at Palestine protestors (or any other protestors that aren’t Nazis).
Fuck the police.
Defending Nazis?
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This might be a bit radical but:
Terrorists and nazis? Both bad
How many did the Christchurch shooter kill?
1945 would like a word with you.
Fucking Nazi apologists.
…the nazis butchered millions, bruh.
They just do it when they have power. Which is why we need to denormalize right wing extremism.
Also even if we restrict to just beach-based killings by Nazis, Normandy was a thing
Hey, think of all the poor Nazis that died during that operation! I'm sure the bloke weirdly defending Nazis would be very upset about it...
There was this thing called the holocaust and…
Minss is awfully silent about the Nazi problem, focusing his energy on peaceful pro-Palestinian protestors instead
Whiteaustralia.org
Go fight them, not your neighbours.
They hate that you're right.
If you are brown/Muslim and on the way to the beach, police may suddenly smash your car and violently arrest you. Welcome to Australia.
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Are you on an ASIO watch-list for violent extremists? Just a minor difference but it's the first thing to spring to mind.
I wonder too, since they were released with no charge they must be innocent no?
One of the men in the car is on an ASIO watch list for extremist beliefs.
An ASIO watch list means what exactly. They have data on everyone.
I’ve just realised that according to Reddit, I have extremist beliefs. I loathe Harry Potter and LOTR.
So can we feel safe or is another ASIO fuck up on its way?
Why is he being released then? Is ASIO going to violently arrest everyone on a watch list now?
Considering what has happened I don’t blame them.
What about all the innocent people that will face police punishment?
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Not if there is not enough evidence to lay charges? Do you want to live in a police state?
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This is not an investigation? Its a beat up
They look fine to me
Were they assaulted whilst in custody? Were they held for the ridiculous week without charges anti terror law allows? I'm really struggling to see the overreach here, which NSW Police are famous for, but there was an ASIO alert in the wake of the horrific attack and as far as I can see no heavy handedness apart from the car damage
Hopefully they go one further and deport everyone on the watch list if they can
Bot account?
Why? For opposing government over reach and a police state?
Over reach lol you’ll be the first one to fucking complain when something else goes down
Well clearly ASIO isnt doing its job properly since these people were released?
They literally DID do their job lol are you dense? They stopped a potential attack according to their intelligence, and released them since they haven't done anything cause they were stopped from carrying out said attack. How is it that hard to grasp for you?
One more slip up could have unforeseen consequences, we got lucky the bondi hero was Muslim. Stop stirring up drama mate
So lets go around detaining innocent people and smashing their car?
Istg dude, its a really tricky situation and many people are calling for action... if you have an idea on how to better tackle this, please make it known to your local MP.
OP is just looking for a reason to be mad at police, rather this than hearing about them having to detain these men after another tragic event. The fact that one of these individuals is on a watchlist is enough for erring on the side of caution you never know when it suddenly goes from thinking about it to action.
Racist assumption.
Aaaaaaannnd the war on
muslims and brown peopleterror is back.As a millennial I’ve seen this playbook before and I didn’t like the ending.
They didn't look particularly dressed for a dip... let's put it that way!
They drove 800kms
There's some reason why they were (possibly followed and) approached by authorities.
We may never know.
Suggesting they were "simply brownies going for a swim at their local beach" is disingenuous at best, deliberate trolling at worst.
I think it’s okay to raise suspicions and be suspicious to this sudden raid. If you’ve been around for the war on terror and seen the impacts it’s has on our Muslim community you kinda get why. I personally am super suss on this raid as well. I think we need transparency and the government and ASIO are not providing us that, allowing suspicions to rise.
Relax Mr Terry Wrist.
It’s been a week and we already know who the real victims are it seems.
Edit - add an obvious /s
Yes the innocent members of the public police and ASIO will abuse next
Not the dead people and their families?
They are victims. Why are police and ASIO going around creating more victims?
The police didn’t murder anyone by arresting people - the only victims here are the people that were gunned down on Sunday
So having your car smashed and arrested without charge doesnt make you a victim?
ASIO doesn’t do a thing - Wow those Guys and the Government are shit and are racist.
5 days later…..
ASIO does a thing - Wow those guys and the Government are shit and are racists.