I might be old fashioned, but I tend to gravitate to people who think like me. Being atheist is fundamental to my worldview and I cannot compromise on that. I was dating for marriage and knew exactly what I would like out of a person to spend the rest of my life with. I’m not sorry that I believe religious people are not very smart. And I’m not sorry that I think atheists who want to have children with religious people are not very smart either. And I could not see myself being with a dumb person let alone raise children with them.
Why are so many atheist putting themselves through, erm, hell with figuring out how to raise children with your spouse? And the compromises I see in comments are damning to shaky atheist that are not sure how to raise children and opt for “go to a non denominational pseudo-Christian spot, that’ll show them! Har har!” Where did the “children shouldn’t be indoctrinated” crowd go? I want that back and steadfast atheist not afraid of a little pushback.
Personally, for the religious person to be okay with their spouse being doomed to hell and perhaps their children would rattle me and I’d stop at nothing to ensure their eternal life. Think about it, if I was religious and there was a slight chance to my children burning in hell, then what is the point of heaven if they can’t be there? Couldn’t imagine it.
I want to know what the redeemable quality of your spouse was to want to always fight about child bearing with and without religion. Is it worth it? Has it backfired on you? Would you do it twice regardless of your relationship with your children?
ps. Me and my wife are both atheist and proud members of TST. We both agree that children shouldn’t be raised in a religious household.
I agree that compatibility is extremely important.
I notice some people especially when i was dating, were so desperate to find a lover that they downplayed vital differences. Theyd hide their preferences and beliefs just to have companionship and or looks. Theyd bend over backwards to people please until one day, sht gets real. They want them and the kids to convert or the bible scriptures emerge during arguments ad counsel.
I saw one couple's situation. The guy deconverted during the marriage he was an atheist who had children with a devout Christian. Initially he made jokes about it saying it wasnt a big deal. But then he was suddenly upset about her being adamant taking them to church. It was obvious the relationship was going downhill, as each week his mood had gone south and the jokes had disappeared. And then i get word about his divorce and custody. People had tried to warn him, but he thought a Christian woman wouldnt care if her kids "went to hell".
Ive been nonreligious for 10 years (im in my late 20s). Didnt ever date a Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim man. It was a hell no especially knowing i didnt want any of the cultural rituals, in laws, values, parenting, nor attempts to convert me etc.
Biologically speaking as a male, finding a mate is hard enough. With approximately 2% of women in American identifying as atheists, eliminating 98% of the mating pool is silly. it is much more effective to reproduce with whoever you have a connection with. Maybe your question is how can an atheist have a connection with a religious individual and vice versa?
My short answer is life finds a way.
Life may find a way but is the life worth it if you’re unhappy? I understand the dating pool is scarce but that didn’t make me adjust my standards, especially involving religion. But men will do anything for a crumb of pussy, even be unhappy just to have it. Which, imo, is not worth it and others find that out way too late.
Your making quite the assumption that they will be unhappy
I would be unhappy if my wife thought I was genuinely doomed to hell. I’m a good person, I pay taxes, and I dearly love my wife. I’m not sure a religious spouse could give 110% love because of this hangup and understanding that as an atheist would break my heart.
You would be unhappy if your wife thought other things about you as well probably, which she does im sure since we’re all human. The point of marriage is to choose living life together. Some people arn’t unhappy with their spouse thinking they are doomed to hell because they know hell isn’t real. Also not all spouses think their husband is doomed to hell because like every other religious person, they cherry pick their beliefs from the bible. And in that sense its just another dumb contradictory belief that all humans have.
That's fair enough, but just because you couldn't be happy in a relationship with a religious person doesn't mean that other people couldn't
Everyone has a different understanding of what happiness is and all the power to them.
Yes, but as I said you were making the assumption that everyone in that position would be unhappy. So now we can agree that it not necessarily the case
When people bring this up to me “if its worth it” to have a kid, I always remind them that for them to even be alive right now with that choice their bloodline has had to exist for 300,000 years of homo sapien ancestors reproducing. In reality, it’s 3.5 billion years of unbroken reproduction for you to exist right now. So really think about if ending a 3.5 billion year journey is worth 18 years of absolute joy with a miniature you.
Spoiler: it absolutely is worth the risk of being “unhappy”, but it’s your choice to end your lineage.
Is having children with a compatible person not a choice anymore?
Being a parent is my greatest pride and I am happy because of my children. Lineage pales in comparison to the joy you have when you’re a parent, imho.
Lineage exists because of the joy/drive you speak of. Its biological and is tied together, no need to compare!
Of course it’s a choice ya silly goose. It’s just that people always assume they are compatible in the beginning. That is also biological.
I reckon most of these people were both religious when they married, and then one deconverted. Common story! I'm lucky my spouse deconverted after I did.
^ this. My husband and I were both religious when we married. We were raised that way never given a choice until we were adults. I started deconstructing after our daughter was born and was lucky that my husband also began deconstructing a year or so later.
If you were never raised in the church, you might not be aware of how hard some of these groups push young people to get married and start popping out kids as soon as possible. They don’t allow time for young adults to mature and learn about the world. These kids don’t have the space and freedom learn enough to question the beliefs they were raised with until after they already married and often already have a child.
Or the reverse. Lapsed faith and then once kids appear one or the other suddenly gets drawn towards faith or a religious structure for the kids that they never seemed to care for much before.
I’m so much on the same level, page, chapter with my spouse that going through something as big as reconverting would rock me to the core. I’m lucky I’m unfamiliar with this process.
It was definitely a huge moment of crisis for him because up until I confessed I couldn't force myself to believe this any longer, we felt we on the exact same page too.
Ironically I was right in the middle of reading through the entire Bible all over again to "strengthen" my faltering faith and it had the opposite effect where I was only more certain I could no longer follow any of this bullshit.
This is me. Married Christian, stayed Christian until after our 2nd child. We’re still together “for the kids” but it’s not easy, 10/10 would not recommend
I live towards the edge of the bible belt. If I had set my dating app filters to "atheist only" I would have had zero matches. I ended up finding a "Catholic"... who isn't really a Catholic. It is a cultural thing for her (Mexican) and any time I bring up a specific point of doctrine or a common interpretation of the bible, she thinks it is wrong or silly or interprets it WILDLY differently than the church (in a good way). She is basically a pantheist although she doesn't like the label. She isn't willing to call herself an atheist but certainly does not believe in a personal god who cares that we had a child out of wedlock.
I was very up front about my atheism though. I think I brought it up at length on our 2nd or 3rd date.
Godspeed my man. I physically cannot be attracted to willful ignorance but your situation is much more specific. Latins are very catholic and it is very cultural in their community. Is it the stigma her family would give if she did proclaim something other than Catholicism? That’s what keeps a lot of people from living their life how they see fit.
Hypothetically if yall had children, it could be less pushback from your spouse and more so from their family instead. “Why didn’t you circumcise your son, has he/she been baptized yet?” And every other question that goes with it. Is she the type to stand firm or give in to family? If I were a betting man, Latin community is very close to their respective families. It’s not something I’d risk.
I live in Alabama, THE Bible Belt, and I talked about religion with my now wife on the 2nd date.
I see a lot of people going back to church after having a kid when they maybe weren't religious to start.
My husband is an atheist. We got together organically, though, and he called himself agnostic at that time. I called myself ex Christian, and tbh still do because it's accurate.
I’m not understanding where you’re finding all these people?
If you’re referring to subs aimed at atheism and parenting then you’re going to find a disproportionate number of posts from people asking about those topics.
I don’t for a second believe there’s some epidemic of atheists reproducing with religious people and then shocked pikachu face asking “what do I do now?!”
It happens more often than not. I wouldn’t say it’s all the time, but I know people personally that it’s happened with as well as internet troughs.
Maybe it’s a regional thing. I’ve lived in the UK and Australia and can tell you it’s uncommon to even find people who are outwardly religious!
Even less common for someone who doesn’t socialise in those circles to end up with one.
While I don't disagree with the general sentiment, you come across as an asshole.
<3 luv u
Hey, it takes one to know one ;)
I am like you and chose carefully because I wanted no compromise where religion is concerned. But many young people never discuss religion, quietly assuming their partner is the same, and end up being surprised when children arrive. Lots of people never even examine their own beliefs until they have children.
I grew up in the Bible Belt and it was painful to lose my religion in my early 20s. I was one of the first of my friends who did, and it was lonely and cost me several friendships and relationships. It was even worse for my friends who grew up Mormon because their families cut them off. It’s common for people raised in church to marry young before they bother to consider whether they’re going to church out of habit and socialization or they really believe that shit. Tons of people go to church but don’t really believe it. Just as many have stopped going to church but still hold onto belief deep down. I’ve been very lucky that so many of friends and brothers/cousins have become atheist as adults, but we all went to youth group together back in the day.
I’m one. Where I live, “Bible Belt”, there just aren’t many atheists in the fish pond. Also, if you can drink a bunch of tequila and attempt to defend your position, even (especially?) when you don’t agree, it’s kind of sexy. Opposites attract..
Some deconstruct after marriage and kids.
I have never dated another atheist or agnostic. However, my spouse has moved from being a lapsed baptist when we met to being kind of agnostically spiritualish now.
I have never downplayed my views, but made it clear they had to accept me as I am if they want me to accept them.
I also fully support my kids making their own choices. I care less about being right about religion and more about what makes them feel like they have found support and love in a tough world. I teach them about Occam’s Razor. I teach them that the risks of blind faith mean some people using it as a tool to cloak fraud and abuse. I teach them that Christians span the spectrum from kind well-intentioned people like Fred Rogers to people who use religion as an excuse for racism, sexism, abuse, and homophobia like Doug Wilson. And I tell them that they can go to church anytime if they want.
So far, my kids like staying in their PJs on Sundays.
For me, it has always been crucial that my partner shares my core values (social, political, cultural, etc.), which usually means I’m not compatible with religious people. I do have tolerance for some forms of spirituality or even theism, though - as long as it’s an individual, philosophical belief, not participation in a religious movement with leaders, rules, and scriptures. The sexiest thing for me has always been an open mind and a curious intellect that questions everything, and that’s usually contradictory to conservative and religious beliefs.
But I did date and truly love a theist who had his own beliefs inspired by Aristotle and Hegel. We met while studying philosophy at uni, and we were together for several years. His beliefs were never a problem for me; on the contrary, I found them fascinating, and we discussed those things a lot. We split for unrelated reasons, but I can easily imagine that if we had stayed together, the difference in beliefs wouldn’t have been an issue, since it didn’t touch on any social or cultural norms, nor did it require any rituals or traditions to be observed.
I’m now (very happily) in a relationship with a hardcore atheist, and to be fair, I find it a bit more challenging in this sense. I’m more of an atheist-leaning agnostic who enjoys discussing the “what ifs” and “what abouts” of everything, while my dear partner is extremely smart but completely uninterested in long ontological discussions. 😆