So I'm an atheist, and my wife is Catholic. The issue is that she wants to take our kids to church on Sundays, and teach them to pray before bed, but I don't want that at all. How do we compromise?
There is a little more background. When we first met, my wife didn't go to church, and even led me to think she didn't believe in God. I don't think there was deception, just some genuine questioning on her part, which led to her interest in church now after we have had 2 kids.
We've debated it, and I have been letting her take the kids because I'm not interested in controlling her, and they are too little to understand. But I realized I didn't like it, and so far all I've been able to explain is that I don't want my kids to be indoctrinated. She claims not taking them to church is also indoctrination. On the other hand, she says that belonging to the church will make them happier and more successful people. I argued that there are other communities that can provide the same benefit, such as sports teams.
So what do I do? Let her take them, knowing it will lead to confusion down the road? Or make a stand?
Edit: yes, we are real people. We agreed that the kids can go to church with her sometimes, and other times she will go without them. That was about as much as I felt I could demand. UU church is a nice idea but pleased neither of us. I personally like the idea of educating them about other religions as they grow to counteract the Catholic dogma. Mythology is my favorite. Thanks for the helpful advice!
Tell her you'll compromise on a Unitarian Universalist church, people of any or no faith are welcome to attend.
That way, each parent is equally unhappy, and neither is doing what s/he wants on Sunday morning!
Or it's a compromise...
I don’t think it’s really a compromise. Sure, it’s kind of a middle ground. But it’s not a compromise in the sense that each party gets part of what they want, or what they want some of the time. In the proposed arrangement, neither gets what s/he wants. Mom doesn’t get Catholic order, ritual, tradition, doctrine and ceremony, and Dad has to attend a religious institution whose tenets he does not endorse. The best thing this does is apportion the grievances somewhat equally. But it’s not a formula for happiness.
The tenets of the Unitarians are basically be nice to people, not a lot of Dogma. I'm an atheist and do not belong to any group, just thought it would satisfy the mom's need for a religious community without the crazy beliefs.
Indeed! Your approach is more optimistic than mine, which is definitely more productive. I don't know these people, so who's to say might work?
(Given that at least some of these Reddit posts are AI-written to drive engagement, and others are written by people who want to troll strangers, it's impossible to say whether the people described herein are even real, let alone make recommendations for them. We don't know how intransigent Mrs. OP is, or how domineering OP is; we don't know the ages of the children or where they live or how old any of them are or how long they've been married, etc etc etc. The OP has only made one post ever on Reddit, and has never left a comment before creating this thread, and therefore "he" might very well be a bot. Alternatively, "he" might be the opposite of what he claims to be so as to get another viewpoint and be able to argue better with "his" spouse. Who knows?)
All that said - my sense is that religious people believe that they possess The Truth, and even 50% of the way to their way of thinking is not enough. 75% is not enough. If it were enough, we wouldn't have Catholic and Orthodox and Lutheran and Presbyterian and Mennonite and Methodist and Anglican and LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses and Quakers and Pentecostal and Coptic, plus all the thousands of sub-denominations. Just among Presbyteriansm, there are dozens of denominations, and they disagree so mightily that they refuse to worship together. So why would Mrs. OP want to go Unitarian if she thinks Catholicism is correct?
As a long time atheist I have been impressed by and found a lot of good friends in a UU community.
The only 'dogma' they have are things I can fully get behind from a logical/ethical basis like "The inherent worth and dignity of every person; Justice, equity and compassion in human relations; A free and responsible search for truth and meaning; Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.". I don't get the sense that the leaders at "my church, which feels weird to say" or the members think they hold the one true™ truth, if they do they don't act like it.
Sunday services often revolve around secular topics and even secular leaders, pull from philosophy and academics at least as much as from any faith traditions. When the faith leader misstepped they were removed at the will of the congregation, with support from national. The congregation is mostly liberal/left leaning, but not fully and there are for example social conservatives as well, but people treat each other with respect and have really interesting, honest conversations. There is an explicitly atheist+agnostic group that has their own events and programming, and leads the main Sunday service several times/year.
Having grown up in a Catholic community and even gone to Catholic schools, the UU experience is so wildly different I can't really articulate, but it is a place I can very comfortably and honestly find community, which is something traditional religion does quite well and which is often either a big struggle or a big hole for us non-believers. It's a place I feel comfortable taking my kids (who are being raised without religion) to make friends, learn about world religions (they'll have to deal with religion on their own at some point) and have a 3rd space other than school and home.
Not trying to convince you of anything, but just to say it's been a good experience and a good fit for us.
That sounds pretty nice and supportive. I'm not sure it's what the OP wants (if the OP is even a real person) but if OP and Mrs OP want to try it, maybe it will work!
Agreed, I don't think it sounds like a prescription for OP either.
A good compromise is where everyone walks away unhappy
I suspect you're joking, but a good compromise would be as follows: Say a family has a two-vacation. He wants to go to LA, she wants to go to Vegas. He doesn't like Vegas; she doesn't like LA. So in a good compromise, they spend a week in LA and a week in Vegas. In a bad compromise, they go to Oklahoma City.
If the Catholic and the nonbeliever agree to go to a place neither one likes, both might feel like they are making a sacrifice for no gain other than to block the other.
Too bad there are kids in the mix. Neither one of these people (if they are real) are wrong. But they might be wrong together.
Wow, way to call Oklahoma City a bad compromise
Tulsa, maybe?
this is ridiculous. You dont understand Christians at all. UU "churches" arent churches at all. That doesnt suffice as church and doesnt support faith in the slightest. Complete waste of time.
Religion is a complete waste of time, you are correct, I don't understand Christians.
thats your opinion
Just like your statement above. Why are you even on this subreddit?
Teach them about other religions. Read them mythology, teach them the history, and make sure they know what other people believe. If they know that Christianity is just one option of many (and that non-belief is also an option), they will at least be able to make an informed opinion when they are older. Also, be sure to talk openly about your own beliefs. Education is the best way to prevent indoctrination. You could also consider having Saturday as a day where you do something with the kids. Maybe you take them to a museum or a science center or some other educational activity.
I like how this way avoids arguing with my wife lol
I think this is potentially trouble, because the kids become the battleground for your disagreement.
A lot of people don't think too critically about their beliefs until they have kids. You're not the first couple to have to sort this out after having kids.
If your wife wants them to go to church, you could compromise with every other Sunday. One week she takes them to church, another you take them to the park and talk to them about different religions in an age-approporiate way. You could also try Unitarian Universalism which usually has an active Atheist group.
I was raised in a mixed religion household and went to two different churches (Greek orthodox and catholic). Eventually I realized that neither of them really made any sense and I became an atheist as an adult.
Kids ask a lot of questions, so going to church isn't the end of the world. Eventually they'll start questioning and you can be there to help answer questions from a non-cathoic perspective.
I was raised very catholic and went to 12 years of catholic school. I married my husband in the Catholic Church and he was also raised catholic. However we both have become agnostic and basically atheist as we’ve gotten older. Our family members have tried to get us to take our son to church and we stand firm on our decision to not raise him in religion. I know some couples have differing faiths but I would not be able to compromise on something that I personally now believe to be totally made up. Being raised Catholic gave me a warped sense of my worth and virginity, etc. Also I know very few liberal Catholics (really only just my parents) so it’s a conservative pipeline. Which depending on your political leaning could be bad news. All this to say, it’s not harmless. I would stand my ground. Sorry you’re in this situation :/
"She claims not taking them to church is also indoctrination."
So, is not taking them to the mosque or synagogue also indoctrination?
Ask your wife if she teaches the kids to pray and takes them to church, can you spend the same amount of time explaining how the universe really works, how there is no evidence for the existence of any gods and tell them tales from all the other mythologies such as Greek/Roman/Norse etc
You've got yourself a problem here.
Which part do you see as most problematic?
There are lots of hints in your original post that suggest trouble - trouble that is best avoided before marrying or having children, if possible. Sometimes that's not.
The most worrying part for me? "She says that belonging to the church will make them happier and more successful people." And you are not a churchgoer? What does that imply about her opinion of you?
Anyway, it's all very foundational stuff, stuff that's hard to argue about. Normally, it would be fine to let other people believe what they want, and no harm done. But if the kids convert and you don't, you are the odd man out in the family. That's ok at work, but not good at home.
Oh yeah well I'm not gonna get into what my wife thinks of me but for sure this new interest in religion on her part feels a bit reactionary to me. Reaction to what is a trickier question. I mean, as I said, she wasn't going to church when we met. But that's all somewhat beside the point, here, which is how to compromise when parenting.
Your wife has changed and not for the better IMO. If she changes regarding religion, in what other respects will she change?
Best wishes.
My dad was Catholic and my mom was atheist. Their agreement was he could take us to church, but if we didn’t enjoy it, we wouldn’t have to go anymore. Didn’t last long, thanks to my sister. I would also feel strongly about not taking them, though.
Her claim of not taking them also being indoctrination is patently false. The definition is literally "the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." The whole point of atheism is critical thinking and healthy skepticism.
Your wife is lying. Church is the reason I have an anxiety disorder.
Being secular isn't indoctrination. She wants to trick the kids.
Words like “lying” and “trick” are for when a person knowingly wants others to believe something false, not for when a person genuinely believes the misinformation themselves.
That's fair. I think "influence" might be a better term, it at least more fair. That said, her opinions here are insane.
No, I'm gonna say she's not lying. I don't really think membership in church really fixes depression or such but apparently there's some data suggesting it does, on average for some people...
Just ask the kids what they want to do. If they say that they don’t want to got then they can stay home with you but if they do then they can go with their mother. They should be old enough to make those decisions.
The "now we have two kids part" makes me think they are too young to make decisions like this. Until about the age of 8, kids try to make mom and dad happy.
I do agree with that plus something tells me that they might side with the mom since the dad is more accepting of them with whatever choice they make while the mom will give the whole “fire and brimstone” speech if they don’t want to go.
If compromise on this topic were easy, there wouldn’t be 10,000 denominations of Christianity. (By some estimates, there are 45,000!)
The kids are currently too young to understand what church is.
I know how you feel. My wife has been Catholic her whole life. When we were dating, she let me know that if we ever got married and had kids, she would raise them to be Catholic. I had had two Catholic girlfriends in the past when I was younger and that hadn’t been a problem, so in my smitten phase (when I was dating my now wife) I said that it wouldn’t be a problem, in that particular conversation. In hindsight, things would have been easier if I had married someone who had the same atheist beliefs as me. I console myself that no one is perfect, and it’s rare for married people to have the exact same beliefs on absolutely everything. It’s possible I could married an atheist, but that person could have other issues that I wasn’t fond of. My wife & I have compromised by me not having to church every week, but I go when my daughter is an alter server, which is roughly every 3 weeks. I used to go with my family every weekend because I knew it was important to my wife, and it was a way for me to show my love for her. When I go, I treat church as a chance to relax and chill out for an hour, even if I internally roll my eyes at some of silly beliefs and almost cult-like rituals. Apart from the fact that it makes me slightly sad that my wife has indoctrinated our children, I agreed to this, so I have to keep my word. It also helps to remember that despite having these beliefs that I don’t agree with, my wife & kids are still good people. And my kids will be more free to question their own beliefs when they’re older.
Do they want to go or do they not have a choice?
You had kids with a religious person and didn’t dice out logistics before making them. You fucked up my man.