For many years now I have lost all belief in George untangling the web of storylines within Game Of Thrones to give a satisfying ending, over time he has adopted a perfectionist mentality following the end of the show and now just is stuck in an endless cycle of rewriting finished chapters.
The Dunk and Egg novellas are self contained stories with their own characters and themes that are around 160 pages each. They can travel anywhere and everywhere within The Seven Kingdoms and only have one POV character which makes writing far simpler.
I think this freedom would be beneficial in eroding the perfectionist writing block he is stuck in, he simply needs to write unshackled within the world to remind himself of why he started this journey to begin with.
If Winds Of Winter is this “curse” he is too lost in and disinterested with to continue we need not deprive ourselves of more stories within the world. (Roberts Rebellion, Bloodraven, Ninepenny Kings)
I honestly think that pounding out a Dunk and Egg and seeing that the fans still absolutely love it even if it's not the literal second coming of christ would help him feel secure enough to stop revising finished chapters and focus on finishing Winds.
I agree. I also think the pride of accomplishing something would help him too. Step away for Winds for a little bit, get something Dunk & Egg out, and then come back to it. Would help with the show too.
I doubt he will do it but I bet he has thought about it, the blog posts mentioning Dunk & Egg suggest his real desire to write them but with Winds overlording over all.
We're talking about him like he's our stepson that dropped out of college and moved into the basement
"Son, you could at least blog--it's been three months."
That's always the tone and it's both hilarious and sad, and a little too parasocial to my taste. At the end of the day he's just a guy who wrote some books we like, and we have no idea what his hangups and blocks are.
That is a good point. To be honest, I feel I've fallen into this as well. I don't know Martin. He seems like a nice guy and I certainly empathise with his difficulties. That doesn't mean the wait can't be or shouldn't be criticised, just that I've fallen into the same borderline "parasocial" thing that you mention.
Thank you. There’s a definite infantilization of George by the fanbase that’s absolutely bizarre. He’s a grown man, a professional author, and a millionaire. This is his literal job.
This presumes he's actually been working on it.
He’s old and overweight. He doesn’t have time to step away from anything like his next day is guaranteed. I want him to enjoy the rest of his days but let’s face it, his days are numbered. His last project is likely his last.
Do you think he’s been doing nothing? He’s accomplished a fuckload since Dance was released lol even just in the past few years too, with a new thing debuting soon lol
He hasn’t personally released a wholly authored piece of literature since 2018, and even a lot of that was already written beforehand. I can’t speak for him but if I were him I’d be questioning whether I was even still capable of writing something entirely by myself, not in conversation with others in the process.
You know his shadow on a wall thing? His is being a TV writer, ever since he failed before. He’s choosing this route.
But he doesn’t write television
… yes he does?
What’s the last episode of television he’s written?
Yeah at this point I’d easily take D&E finishing over just Winds.
Dunk and Egg is always fun
I'm pretty sure this is what he did with fire and blood, didnt work
Fire & Blood has a different narrative + foccuses a lot on House Targaryen' history and it's something that some fans are weirdly "alergic" too.
D&E is different, I think most readers would like it.
GRRM doesn’t exactly “pound out” anything but I get your meaning. A serious fantasy author should be able to generate a marketable novella based on an existing world with already existing characters in 6 months. I mean, we’re talking about like 50,000 words.
Especially since George had already put in work on at least one and plotted out another of the D&E stories.
I honestly think that pounding out Fire and Blood and seeing that the fans still absolutely love it even if it's not the literal second coming of christ would help him feel secure enough to stop revising finished chapters and focus on finishing Winds.
Lol
People were saying the same thing when HOTD premiered.
No, success of shows based on his books won't motivate him, as we saw twice in the past
"literal"
The idea that he is revising chapters is a HUGE assumption.
George should write*
FTFY
Wild Cards? Coming up!
Or just another blog post.
He’s retired. He doesn’t write anymore, thats the sad truth. It just hasn’t clicked for some people
I actually liked Dunk and Egg more because I liked having a definitive end to each story instead of being led on by the end of each of the ASOIAF books.
I think so too, but I figure the future D&E stories would reveal / define plot points that he wants to keep mysterious in the main series. So he's kind of locked in to writing TWOW first, and that doesn't seem to be easy for him.
The thing with Dunk and Egg though is that it's perfectly fine to have their stories be low stakes, local conflicts with little direct impact on the larger world. The second story is an example of this. If the next story planned spoils a lot, why not write a story set between that one and the third story? I don't think it's written in stone how many adventures Dunk and Egg had.
The big issues that are already extremely present in the existing stories are the Blackfyres, Bloodraven and the conflict surrounding Dorne. It would certainly be possible to just write a little story that doesn’t advance any of those plots at all, but it might also feel like a bit of a waste of time. If GRRM wanted to write something that has nothing to do with the main plotlines of Westeros, he’d probably rather do something completely different at this point.
wait how are blackfyres present in the existing story? i thot they all died out
The Dunk and Egg stories are set about fifteen years after the first Blackfyre rebellion and feature Blackfyre characters.
Aegon VI, the one being backed by Varys, JonCon, and the Golden Company, is very likely a Blackfyre through the female line. This follows from the Golden Companies' close links to the Blackfyre claimants, the repeated emphasis in the main series that the Blackfyres are only extinct in the male line, the logical improbability of Aegon being Rhaegar's son, Illyrio's relationship with Serra, who is emphasized as having strong Valyrian features, which implies he may have fathered Aegon on Serra, the strong pathos of Aegon's tragedy in that he is living a lie, and the Dornish are rising for a lie, culminating in a second Dance of the Dragons that leads to the laying waste of Dorne in late TWOW/early ADOS. It all fits together, is the gist of it. If Illyrio or Harry Strickland or Varys suddenly propitiously finds Blackfyre and places it in Aegon's hands, that would cinch it.
My sense is that at the end of the second Dance in TWOW or ADOS, Dany will claim Blackfyre from Aegon's corpse, and introducing him as a secret Blackfyre is a good way to stage both the darkening of Daenerys that the show alluded to and was probably in GRRM's original ending notes, and to place the Targaryen ancestral sword back in Dany's hands, creating a thematically unified circle with Aegon I, while after Bran returns from Beyond the Wall, he will bring Dark Sister from the 3EC and give it to Jon, who will in turn be thematically staged to become Daenerys' Prince-Consort.
it’s the robert’s rebellion of the d&e era basically, like everything exists in the context of its aftermath
Well except in that compared to Robert’s it was a total flop
well yea but flop or not it’s still basically a civil war of the seven kingdoms that our main characters are living in the wake of and have to deal with the implications of
That’s what I thought too….like the She-wolves would reveal something too early right? Is that the same for a Riverlands or Dorne story?
So he's going to let showrunners have the first crack of telling the stories in season 4 and beyond?
He already did this with his main story. If that didn't motivate him, why would it motivate him now?
AFAIK, HBO is only doing the three seasons for this based on the three novellas.
The showrunner just said George showed him the outline for about a dozen novellas covering the entire life of Dunk and Aegon. He also said he’s willing to keep making the show if it’s successful.
If that’s not a sign that George has no intention of publishing anything else in his lifetime and intends to leave it up to HBO, I don’t know what is.
Time is a flat circle
Time is a flat circle
Like in what way?
There's a lot of stuff with the Blackfyres going on that could tie into fAegon in the books. Bran sees a vision of a small slender woman kissing a tall man at Winterfell, which is almost definitely Dunk and maybe Old Nan (although some people speculate their ages don't line up). The D&E series is supposed to end at Summerhall, and that tragedy actually has a LOT of parallels with how Dany hatched her dragons. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear of some magical ritual in one of Aerys I or Bloodraven's studies, that Aegon decided to perform but somehow failed and got everyone killed.
It's been quite a while since I've read any of the books, so these are just the ones I know off the top of my head.
That's true, George would never allow another piece of media to spoil things from the main story.
Don't we not really get these until after Egg becomes King? A lot of the broad outlines were already sketched out in TWOIAF; based on these, unless one of the Blackfyre Rebellion D&E books reveals important information about Aegon's TWOW plot arc, the most crucial information isn't likely to crop up until the last books surrounding Bloodraven going to the Wall or Summerhall and such.
And also never forget—the D&E TV series will almost certainly depict all of D&E ending in Summerhall after 13 seasons of milking. The plot will perforce be revealed in more detail than TWOIAF then.
Every time I re read dunk and egg (every couple years or so), I always come away wishing there was more of it!
He’s not writing either.
Sad but most probably true. He's reaching an age where even the most prolific and hard-working people tend to dramatically slow down. Not that we'd ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if he writes 20 hours or less this year.
Not intended to judge him, but I just don't expect much from him anymore.
Fewer
I legitimately like both D&E and Fire and Blood for what they are and I would happily continue reading those books even if Winds never comes out. I just kinda wish GRRM could be honest about it. I think if he announced tomorrow that Winds writing is paused indefinitely because his heart's not in it, and he was going to write more of the other Westeros stuff, a surprising amount of people would be cool with it. I don't get why he pretends to be working on Winds.
Yeah. If we actually get another book at all I think people will be excited and not nearly as focused on it not being Winds. I think even many of the most optimistic people have all but given up on Winds at this point anyway. Any book at all will be a win when the expectation is there will never be another book again.
He shouldn't say he's giving up on Winds and writing something else though. He should just write something else without bringing it up until it's finished. He will just get even more negativity if he releases some blog saying he's going to put Winds to the side and write something else if he isn't able to quickly finish whatever that something else is.
Idk, I think readers would give him some credit for honesty. Saying something like "Hey I've hit a wall and powering through isn't how I write, so I'm going to write other things until the passion to write ASOIAF comes back, I'll let you know when that is" would mean there's nothing to be angry over anymore.
Yeah I’m not saying it would be negative right away, just that he’s setting himself up for tons of hate if he didn’t finish it timely given his history.
Georges need to write anything, even if its not Asoiaf. That his problem, he is just not a writer right now.
This may be an unfounded insult but he’s sort of like an inversion of Andy Warhol, who had a figurative and literal Factory churning out art with his name on it to boost his profile and let him interact with his world as one if its top dogs. George hasn’t produced anything in years but the promise he will is enough to keep him near the heights of the literary world
> George should write
And yet here we are
Yep, agree 100%. Stand alone stories would complete faster plus feed the HBO beast with quality stories.
I'd rather have more Dunk & Egg than a finished TWoW for which we'll never see the final book.
George should write SOMETHING! ANYTHING! I'll take a Fevre Dream sequel at this point.
No.
Im with you. More Dunk please.
I think you should tell him. Noone has mentioned this to him before.
I absolutely loved Knight of the Seven Kingdoms in particular The Hedge Knight. The thing that grabbed me was how enthralling the setting of the jousting tournament was, and the action of the lists. And then all the usually ASOIAF heraldry and houses.
Equally if he wrote the subsequent entires with less of the “perfectionist” mindset he has now it would seem more human; to have Dunk’s values develop overtime and go back and forth dependent on what they experience.
Also very surprising it took place just over a few days. He shows a great skill in both focused stories and the histories that cover hundreds of years.
Agreed. At this point I’d be overjoyed if he wrote 50 shades of the kings guard or something like that
Agree! I’d rather have a new D&E at this point
I have been hoping for him to abandon Winds and do D&E or Blood and Fire for like five years at this point.
He doesn't want to write any more. I apologize if that's news to you.
they are not really self contained. i mean they are partially but they are also part of a bigger story of how dunk and egg's relationship develops and egg becomes king and he becomes his right hand man and how it all ends in tragedy.
so if he writes a new short story we would still be asking for the other 10 or so that come after.
Even just the adventure in Dorne that was already outlined and spoken of within The Sworn Sword.
He could write a novella on the Spring Sickness from the pov of someone in King’s Landing.
If George sits down twice a year to actually write, then fuck no i dont want D&E
He should write Winds but dump any difficulty he has on to Dream, which we definitely won't be getting.
a lot of us went from show to book and by the time we did all of the books had been dissected from cover to cover. I think I would be good for us to get a fresh book to theorise over and whatnot
I think the Dunk & Egg stories are his best work and considering they’re novellas, he ought to be able to write more of them.
No, simply not
He needs to write like nine more Dunk and Eggs he’d better get on it
George should write anything at all
Definitely was a mistake to write F&B books instead of more Dunk And Egg stories
Without a conclusion to the main story I have little interest in reading more side stories or prequels.
In many ways the world of Westeros has become the main appeal of aSoIaF. I don't really see D&E as "side stories" in that context.
Speak for yourself
he's further from completing the 12-13 planned stories than he is to completing asoiaf (though they're short and maybe easier)
George shot his load as far as Ice and Fire goes. Show's over, move along.
I'm really hoping that at the season conclusion of A Knight sof the Seven Kingdom there will be an announcement of The She She-Wolves of Winterfell release.
Don't expect it but hoping.
Lmao flashbacks to people thinking this would happen after seasons 5/6/7/8 with winds.
I hate that the Copium still hits me so hard
Agree with the others who say this would help him get his confidence back. But at the end of the day, I think he’s just old and more interested in spending gobs of money on cool hobbies than treating writing like a job.
No excuse why he hasn't even worked on these. If anything it's proof he's given up on writing
He’s probably already doing this.
If he’s writing at all. Big if.
Honestly, I'd take another Drunk and Egg tomorrow without hesitation.
I agree totally. At this point I'm more invested in the D&E storyline than WoW. They're so good. And I personally elect Harry Lloyd to read all of the audiobooks
No
Would love more stories.
Por que no los not doing dos?
Hard agree! I love Dunk and Egg and at this point, I'd prefer more d&e books that winds.
Ftfy.
George should write…..
Yea he should write FB 2 and the novellas maybe that will refresh him and make him write two if he lives enough
I think he is since the TV show is being made.
I know how Dunk and Eggs story ends ...
I dont know how the main series ends... the lynchpin of the entire ASOIAF world.
He needs to finish dunk and egg before the show passes the mystery knight. The big finale for dunk and egg is summer hall, one of the most mysterious events in asoiaf. He doesn’t need to let writers come up with that ending like they did for the main game of thrones show.
Reddit: HE NEEDS TO STOP ALL THE SIDE PROJECTS AND FUCKING FINISH WINDS
Also Reddit: He really should knock out another side project or two to get his confidence back
This is the bargaining stage of grief.
I’ll take anything at this point!
Whatever he writes, I will read it.
The D&E stories can’t travel anywhere and everywhere. They are meant to travel to Kings Landing where Egg will be king, and ultimately to Summerhall where he will die. He only has four stories to get us to that conclusion.
And he has to cover the Laughing Storm, and Egg’s son’s controversial marriage, and Dunk having a child somehow, and Bloodraven getting exiled after the Blackfyre rebellions. It’s easy to see why he’s having trouble fitting this stuff into just four more short contained stories.
Why just 4?
I could've sworn he said he was intending on having around 10 dunk n egg novellas
He has given numbers ranging from 6-12 overall stories I think
He could even just write the Dorne adventure that was already outlined. (Which he already said he wanted to write)
The first novella The Hedge Knight takes place over just a few days.
Has he stated that the Dunk/egg series ends at Summerhall?
I haven't parsed any of his statements on the series at all but the vibe I get from the series is much more their Adventures amongst the small folk
With the only really required at or hinted at checkpoints being all of the tall children that dunk is going to leave across Westeros
He should write Fire and Blood 2. I want to see the beef between Aegon III and Torrhen Manderly. Will he bake the last dragons into pies and blame the king?
It would certainly do a world of good if he wrote one, just to prove he's still writing and not just lazing away.
The 3/4 figure from 2022 I hope was ANY material George had written
The 2/3 figure from last year is hopefully then work FULLY completed, ready to be published
I hate when people start crap with unpopular opinion or pitchforks blah blah. Just state your opinion and stop assuming what other people are gonna say.
I don’t disagree with you but he’s simply just not going to cuz he doesn’t have to. If he’s gonna pump something out at this point, it will/has to be WOW. I think fans would def be okay with a dunk and egg, maybe even ecstatic. But at this point, he simply has to deliver WOW.
Unless he just outright says I can’t write but I can do this instead, which I think a lot of people would appreciate the honesty and the new D&E novella.
But he’s not cuz he doesn’t have to. Otherwise it’s completely within his own ability to write it. I also think people underestimate its complexity. Yes in regards to the main series it’s nothing but he also has to figure out the what and the why in the grand scheme of things whenever he does something with a spin-off series.
I will do so in future 👍
Cosign
Its not like he hasn’t been writing anything but winds, he has many other projects he’s been writing for and completing. I don’t see how a dunk and egg would be the solution for him when others weren’t.
He should jump between them when he gets stuck
I still think the Knight of the Seven Kingdom HBO series is a great break before The House of the Dragon; less of the heavy politics present in House of the Dragon and more timeless ideals everyone can relate to.
I think one the problems is that Dunk and Egg will inevitably reference something, something GRRM doesnt want revealed in a side story. He can't compete Dunk and Egg without that plot point, but he can't reveal that within Dunk and Egg.
I also find it hard to believe that after all this time, he hasn't at least tried to write something Dunk and Egg related. If he csnt finish Winds after all this time, surely he's tried Dunk and Egg at least once, at least one day when he wasn't getting anything done. So what if he's having the exact same problem?