He[Littlefinger] gave Ned a sideways glance. "I've also heard whispers that Robert got a pair of twins on a serving wench at Casterly Rock, three years ago when he went west for Lord Tywin's tourney. Cersei had the babes killed, and sold the mother to a passing slaver. Too much an affront to Lannister pride, that close to home."
- AGoT Eddard IX
Do we think this story is true? Littlefinger is the only source we have on these twins and their mother. None of the Lannister siblings ever allude to anything like this. And the story seems almost purposely crafted to offend Ned. By this point in the book he's made his stance on baby killing and slavers perfectly clear.
It 'fits' in that this is both something that Robert would do, and something that Cersei would do (and later will, several times), so I tend to view it as the truth.
Ned already has cause enough to dislike the Lannisters by this point.
I think the answer to "did Robert have a bastard in...?" is usually yes
Oh for sure. I suppose the better question would be did he have these specific bastards at Casterly Rock.
Considering Maggy the Frog said he would have 16 children, I wouldn't put it past him
Knowing Littlefinger he probably made it up to further set the Starks against the Lannisters.
Knowing book Cersei she would 100% do that. She has had people killed for lesser offenses
And knowing Robert he would also 100% have an affair in his wife's family home.
It's one of those things that could easily be true. Littlefinger may have made it up, but it could still have happened!
I think it’s true. Robert sires children wherever he goes, even on Stannis’ wedding day, in Stannis’ wedding bed The man’s not going to let his in laws house stop him from banging away his pain.
And it’s not like it’d benefit Littlefinger to lie in this instance, Robert already had sex with a 14 year old he hit the floor in Ned’s eyes and kept going
The benefit would be it further sets the Starks and Lannisters against each other. Though admittedly by that point in the book that's completely unnecessary.
fuck the pain away
I wouldn't put it past Cersei.
I suppose the real issue here is that we don't really know any of their travel plans.
Cersei presumably spent some time at The Rock since I think it's said the kids have been there before. But did Robert ever go? We don't have a reason to doubt he could have, but I don't believe there's a record of it.
The real point of this is that it's believable. Does it even matter? Cersei could and would kill Robert's babies. Robert has had bastards. It feels equally plausible.
I think for me the biggest hole is the passing slaver. Where were they going and why were they in the west of Westros?
Jorah? Would be hilarious if this is how Ned found out through the grapevine.
The timeline doesn't quite work, unless Littlefinger is simply wrong about when this all went down. Jorah was exiled in 293. This conversation with Littlefinger takes place in 298.
I'd say it's close enough tbh. Not gonna die on this hill but if a slaver was so unbelievable then why would Petyr even bring it up? Could have said a trader and it'd be 100% less scrutinized.
Travelling from Bear Island or using coin from selling Slaves to buy goods in Lannisport
buying "thralls" off the Ironborn or capturing wildlings
Call her a Salt Wife rather than a slave if you need to.
I prefer to think Littlefinger invented this story for Ned, for the reasons you say. I even think it's written to not really bear scrutiny. Certainly, it's plausible and in character for every one, but why would Tywin suffer such rumors at Casterly Rock? If people got put on ships why would this be Cersei from King's Landing and not Tywin for their starting baseless rumors? And how convenient for Littlefinger if he happened to hear something so perfect to tell Ned?
He may well have invented it; but it could also be true anyway!
The story seems perfect to get Ned riled up. I don't think it's true, or at least not entirely.
If Robert had heard of Cersei killing any of his bastards, he would not tolerate it. And if she sold someone into slavery, that's a capital offense that gives Robert the perfect excuse to get rid of her.
It might be partially true, but not all of it. The children being born and then killed (without Robert knowing) is not completely out of the question. And something like forcing the mother to abort and sending her away is perfectly believable.
Not just Robert but Stannis and Jon Arryn as well. And it's something more concrete to go on than the kinda flimsy case that three of Robert's bastards have brown hair while his 'trueborn' children do not.
Robert isn’t getting rid of Cersi for some manufactured “capital expense” while casterly rock holds the purse strings and is the actively propping up his reign.
Ned Stark brought 300 men to Kings Landing to support the king, the Lannisters has thousands of soldiers there already.
So here's the thing, if the Lannisters rebel over Cersei being executed for being a slaver the crown doesn't have to pay their debt to the Lannisters anymore.
the Lannisters didn`t have thousends of soldiers in kings landing they just paid off and gain the loyalty of the city watch
It certainly is a plausible scenario for Robert and Cersei and may have happened in some fashion or another, maybe not at the Rock and with a single kid instead of twins and no slaver
Littlefinger has great cause to lie to Ned however and the story on further examination makes little sense. It makes it clear twins had been born, so nine months after Robert slept with the wench. Cersei probably wouldn’t have even been at the Rock at the time, Tywin would have been the one to handle any family disgrace that occurred, and he wouldn’t need Cersei’s advice
And that’s if the woman would have been allowed the kids at all, the Lannisters would give her moontea after sleeping with him, it’s not like they wouldn’t know who slept with him and deal with it peemtively
Plus, he mentions a slaver, knowing Ned is the sort to go after lords who sell people to slaves, Lannisport could host slavers, sure, but the story is much too good to be true, considering Littlefinger is telling Ned
Been a while since I read Feast, does Cersei ever think of this specific incident in her chapters?
I suspect Littlefinger might be stretching things a little to wind up Ned, what with his distaste for Lannisters and desire to behead slavers, but it's probably roughly true.
She does not. What I quoted is the sum total of all the information we have about the incident.
Makes it more likely LF is lying then. Possibly Tywin had them killed without any involvement from Cersei.
This story is a complete lie, I'm convinced of it.
Cersei had never had any of Robert's bastards killed before, why then? Also by total coincidence there was a slaver who passed by Casterly Rock at the exact time this whole incident went down? I don't buy it, not even for a copper.
Petyr knows Ned hates Cersei. He could accuse Cersei of pretty much anything and Ned would believe it. If Baelish told Ned actually Cersei was the one feeding the mad king's delusions and that's why he killed Brandon and Rickard, Ned would probably believe that as well.
To be fair apparently slavers have a habit of being conveniently available on the west coast of Westeros given Jorah was able to find one near Bear Island.
It's plausible that there are always cheap slaves to be purchased North of the Wall and at the Iron Islands, on the West Coast, far away from Braavos. And ships can also do some side trading at Lannisport and Oldtown. There's much less trouble and attention there than in the Narrow Sea.
The iron islands basically take slaves anyway don't they? So makes sense they might trade in them too.
I tend to think it's plausible that there are slavers of convenience on the West Coast
Some ironborn willing to convert their longship into a slaver ship if the opportunity presents itself
Very much the "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy, my Lord. This woman will never be heard of again."
I don't disagree with you about the Ironborn but Jorah's slavers were explicitly Tyroshi.
Thanks for the catch!
Tyroshi who probably shop for slaves in the Iron Islands.
It's most likely true, or at least most of it.
The kids being twins seems targetted to Cersei being a twin. Maybe she just found out who he slept with, and had her killed, or have her drink an abortive tea, like moon tea, and sold off.
I always wonder which slavers sail along the west coast of Westeros.
I think it’s true while also believing Littlefinger doesn’t know that and is lying to try and get Ned angry
There's likely a grain of truth within it, even if Littlefinger is saying that to further manipulate and rile up Ned. Robert would sire a bastard anywhere, and Cersei hated his bastards. She was never willing to have any of his trueborn children, so why would she tolerate one at her own home?
I don't think it is true. Like, first point, why exactly is a slaver passing by casterly rock? There is neither a source nor market for slaves anywhere near there.