Bro are you fawning for a police state? Do you want to be surveyed 24-7?! It’s not a good direction we are going in. Treating everyone like criminals makes for a hostile society.
Seriously. Reading the title it seems like they ended something to monitor flocks of birds, not a mass surveillance company. Calling your surveillance company “flock” safety is dystopian af
If that’s your only consideration, do you think we should give law enforcement as much ability to surveillance us as possible? Cameras inside our homes? Live feeds from our personal devices 24/7?
After all, it would make us safer. Why worry about a little liberty when you could have so much security?
If you’re accusing me of a logical fallacy, you probably mean to paint me with the “slippery slope” argument (claiming that a specific action will lead to a series of increasingly negative consequences), rather than a strawman fallacy (misrepresenting an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack).
I would disagree with you, of course - but at least you’d have more of a leg to stand on in dismissing my argument rather than fairly addressing the points I made.
No - I said it correctly the first time. y
You are equating License Plate readers as 1984 (the strawman), despite every state using them, and having virtually no negative impact to anyone but criminals
You’ve actually just made a flawless example of the strawman argument: you mischaracterized my argument as “equating license plate readers to 1984”, which I did not say, so that you could argue against that point instead of the one I actually made (that license plate readers were the first step of a slippery slope).
Afaik, they will have to pay flock to take them down, so we'll see if that happens.
Last I researched, when these cameras get deactivated, the government just loses their license to the cameras and they are not legally allowed to even touch a camera. They have to pay flock to come and take them down once they are up, so if they just "deactivate" their license to use these flock cameras, flock is still going to use the cameras privately to collect data on everyone, and obviously, other 3rd parties like palantir will be getting this data as well, which circles back to the government anyways.
Once the cameras are taken down, we can be happy we won this small battle.
The reason behind this is because the cameras are in the city right-of-way. With this vote, Flock’s access to that ROW has been revoked. The same can be applied to other stuff in the ROW.
I’m not sure if FPD has been denied the ability to use Flock’s database without contributing to the system.
It’s just a start. Glock isn’t the one doing the worst with their cameras. They’re just the most transparent with what they do so everyone knows about them. There are much worse companies out there already in use
The difference is cell towers don’t require you to drive right past for them to track your location. Flock cameras can only say you drove by this location at that time. They cannot track your movements except for when your plate is read by the camera. This is obviously different from tracking a cell phone which is much more likely to be on your person all the time.
But yes. If you don’t want the license plate of your vehicle, that is driven on public roads, to be read by an LPR system then avoid the cameras. Cameras are everywhere and there is no expectation of privacy in public.
This is proof positive that the public is stupid, will believe anything they’re told, and will vote against their own best interests. Not one person here actually knows what they do, and I haven’t heard yet from anyone who actually uses them. Oh well, you voted them out. You get what you deserve.
Lol theres literally a youtube video of a guy buying a few decommissioned ones, and then literally hacking the camera in like 12 different ways, some of them dont even require you to be physically close to the cameras, and when you hack those cameras you gain access into their entire databases. All cameras, profiles on people, every single police officer and sometimes their addresses.
Even ignoring the AI model flock uses and the data they sell to palantir giving the gov a big doc of every citizen and their social credit, this things are a huge privacy risk not just for every citizen who is all of a sudden being monitored like its north korea, but also for every officer whos location is being actively broadcasted to anyone who has just a little bit of malice & brain.
Flock doesn’t have any private or personally identifying information. Your license plate is public record and your MVD records are classified information Flock doesn’t have access to.
Yes they are. The identifying information in MVD records is considered classified, meaning it’s not publicly available and to lawfully access it you need certain credentials. To obtain MVD records with identifying info you need to submit a request to MVD and must cite a permissible use to them. You can’t just go to a website, punch in a plate number and find owner identification info.
Ok, sure - I was splitting hairs about the actual legal definition of “classified” documents, which isn’t how it would be applied to things that are simply private or require a warrant to access.
That aside, it’s not Flock we’re concerned about (or rather, not just Flock). You may trust the police in your city or law enforcement in your state, but being part of the Flock network means that any LEO in the network can access information about your daily life that is incredibly identifiable.
This includes ICE, it includes police in other states who would like to charge you for some that is a crime in their state but not in yours (like when Flock cameras were used to track a woman suspected of getting an abortion), it includes your cop ex-boyfriend who wants to track your movements, and it includes hackers who gain access to that date through the poor security practices of some other podunk town.
Knowing where you go and who you see every day is valuable, identifiable information. It’s so identifiable that the Supreme Court ruled that cell phone location data is subject to Fourth Amendment protections, requiring a warrant to obtain.
Police do not need a warrant to obtain the location data on you generated from Flock cameras, and they do not need top-secret clearance to connect your license plate to your DMV data in any state.
Likening Flock LPRs to GPS or cell phone tracking is erroneous at best, downright dishonest at worst. Flock cameras are prepositioned at stationary locations and are easily identifiable. They can only see when you pass a camera, and have no ideas where you or where you go between cameras. And every system has those who abuse it. So you take steps to mitigate and expose abuse, not become a luddite and take away effective crime fighting tools from law enforcement.
Cell phone towers are prepositioned at stationary locations, too - so what? Are you suggesting that a citizen who does not wish to share their movements with every LEO in the country should map out the locations of every Flock camera in their town and carefully drive out of range of them? Not drive at all?
What happens if there is a Flock camera between your home and the abortion doctor, trans hormone clinic, community organizing center, or gay bar you need to travel to?
I’m all for helping my local police to do their job. I simply don’t think that building a national mass surveillance system is part of that job.
If you’d like to share your personally-identifying information and details of your daily trips with every local, state, and federal law enforcement agency, that’s your right. But do it on your own time. Don’t expose my information, don’t bring it to my community, and don’t make me pay for it.
I agree. I’m from a huge city in the Midwest where I welcomed the cameras. Crime in my neighborhood was because they travelled there. It helped catch so many criminals and lowered the crime statistics in my specific neighborhood.
The people who robbed banks, mugged someone, had an outstanding warrant, etc etc. They didn’t live in my neighborhood.
I’m sorry but I gotta laugh that people tried to think that comment was something other than basics. I lived in an Ethiopian neighborhood. They are super fucking peaceful.
Good. Now do PHX. Have one at the entrance of my neighborhood and am always tempted to make it disappear one night.
Lot of copper in them
Be such a shame if it did...
/s
Shine a powerful green laser and fry it
Just takes one bullet from a distance.
The cops already have a hard time stopping crime in Phoenix and now you wanted them to do their job with both hands behind their back. Okay…
Bro are you fawning for a police state? Do you want to be surveyed 24-7?! It’s not a good direction we are going in. Treating everyone like criminals makes for a hostile society.
Pfft lol
Wouldn't trust the politicians or law until the cameras are gone, deactivated doesn't count.
This is the correct answer.
Good
Seriously. Reading the title it seems like they ended something to monitor flocks of birds, not a mass surveillance company. Calling your surveillance company “flock” safety is dystopian af
Good for criminals
Please know what you're talking about before spitting random BS
How is it “random BS”? If you take away tools for law endorcement; they’ll be less effective. This isnt rocket science
If that’s your only consideration, do you think we should give law enforcement as much ability to surveillance us as possible? Cameras inside our homes? Live feeds from our personal devices 24/7?
After all, it would make us safer. Why worry about a little liberty when you could have so much security?
Classic strawman argument. Being ok License plate readers on public roads is not the same as wanting mass surveillance, lmao
If you’re accusing me of a logical fallacy, you probably mean to paint me with the “slippery slope” argument (claiming that a specific action will lead to a series of increasingly negative consequences), rather than a strawman fallacy (misrepresenting an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack).
I would disagree with you, of course - but at least you’d have more of a leg to stand on in dismissing my argument rather than fairly addressing the points I made.
No - I said it correctly the first time. y You are equating License Plate readers as 1984 (the strawman), despite every state using them, and having virtually no negative impact to anyone but criminals
You’ve actually just made a flawless example of the strawman argument: you mischaracterized my argument as “equating license plate readers to 1984”, which I did not say, so that you could argue against that point instead of the one I actually made (that license plate readers were the first step of a slippery slope).
https://deflock.me
Bobby Nichols is running for Tempe City Council to do the same there.
Now we need to get nosy Gilbert to do this. It would also be nice if we could change our right ID state.
Fantastic! Phoenix, next?
How much did it cost to implement? And the cost to remove? Or are they just deactivating them for now?
From the article
"All 32 Flock cameras positioned around Flagstaff were deactivated immediately following the Dec. 16 vote and are scheduled for removal."
It didn't mention the cost.
Afaik, they will have to pay flock to take them down, so we'll see if that happens.
Last I researched, when these cameras get deactivated, the government just loses their license to the cameras and they are not legally allowed to even touch a camera. They have to pay flock to come and take them down once they are up, so if they just "deactivate" their license to use these flock cameras, flock is still going to use the cameras privately to collect data on everyone, and obviously, other 3rd parties like palantir will be getting this data as well, which circles back to the government anyways.
Once the cameras are taken down, we can be happy we won this small battle.
The reason behind this is because the cameras are in the city right-of-way. With this vote, Flock’s access to that ROW has been revoked. The same can be applied to other stuff in the ROW.
I’m not sure if FPD has been denied the ability to use Flock’s database without contributing to the system.
Now tear them down for scraps.
Flock those domestic surveillance cameras
We all need to support this in our own communities this is so important
The very name "Flock" indicates that the public are nothing but sheep to be monitored, controlled, and directed.
Yes, because the feds under this administration have been famously compliant when it comes to limitations on their jurisdiction and powers.
Sure they did.
It’s just a start. Glock isn’t the one doing the worst with their cameras. They’re just the most transparent with what they do so everyone knows about them. There are much worse companies out there already in use
I saw a guy spray in a “landscaping truck” back the truck up to the pole, get up into the bed, and spray paint the camera on one of these…
People do not like them. Understandably so.
I hope Buckeye and Peoria get the message too.
The difference is cell towers don’t require you to drive right past for them to track your location. Flock cameras can only say you drove by this location at that time. They cannot track your movements except for when your plate is read by the camera. This is obviously different from tracking a cell phone which is much more likely to be on your person all the time.
But yes. If you don’t want the license plate of your vehicle, that is driven on public roads, to be read by an LPR system then avoid the cameras. Cameras are everywhere and there is no expectation of privacy in public.
This is proof positive that the public is stupid, will believe anything they’re told, and will vote against their own best interests. Not one person here actually knows what they do, and I haven’t heard yet from anyone who actually uses them. Oh well, you voted them out. You get what you deserve.
Lol theres literally a youtube video of a guy buying a few decommissioned ones, and then literally hacking the camera in like 12 different ways, some of them dont even require you to be physically close to the cameras, and when you hack those cameras you gain access into their entire databases. All cameras, profiles on people, every single police officer and sometimes their addresses.
Even ignoring the AI model flock uses and the data they sell to palantir giving the gov a big doc of every citizen and their social credit, this things are a huge privacy risk not just for every citizen who is all of a sudden being monitored like its north korea, but also for every officer whos location is being actively broadcasted to anyone who has just a little bit of malice & brain.
Flock doesn’t have any private or personally identifying information. Your license plate is public record and your MVD records are classified information Flock doesn’t have access to.
MVD records are not “classified” lol
Yes they are. The identifying information in MVD records is considered classified, meaning it’s not publicly available and to lawfully access it you need certain credentials. To obtain MVD records with identifying info you need to submit a request to MVD and must cite a permissible use to them. You can’t just go to a website, punch in a plate number and find owner identification info.
Ok, sure - I was splitting hairs about the actual legal definition of “classified” documents, which isn’t how it would be applied to things that are simply private or require a warrant to access.
That aside, it’s not Flock we’re concerned about (or rather, not just Flock). You may trust the police in your city or law enforcement in your state, but being part of the Flock network means that any LEO in the network can access information about your daily life that is incredibly identifiable.
This includes ICE, it includes police in other states who would like to charge you for some that is a crime in their state but not in yours (like when Flock cameras were used to track a woman suspected of getting an abortion), it includes your cop ex-boyfriend who wants to track your movements, and it includes hackers who gain access to that date through the poor security practices of some other podunk town.
Knowing where you go and who you see every day is valuable, identifiable information. It’s so identifiable that the Supreme Court ruled that cell phone location data is subject to Fourth Amendment protections, requiring a warrant to obtain.
Police do not need a warrant to obtain the location data on you generated from Flock cameras, and they do not need top-secret clearance to connect your license plate to your DMV data in any state.
Likening Flock LPRs to GPS or cell phone tracking is erroneous at best, downright dishonest at worst. Flock cameras are prepositioned at stationary locations and are easily identifiable. They can only see when you pass a camera, and have no ideas where you or where you go between cameras. And every system has those who abuse it. So you take steps to mitigate and expose abuse, not become a luddite and take away effective crime fighting tools from law enforcement.
Cell phone towers are prepositioned at stationary locations, too - so what? Are you suggesting that a citizen who does not wish to share their movements with every LEO in the country should map out the locations of every Flock camera in their town and carefully drive out of range of them? Not drive at all?
What happens if there is a Flock camera between your home and the abortion doctor, trans hormone clinic, community organizing center, or gay bar you need to travel to?
I’m all for helping my local police to do their job. I simply don’t think that building a national mass surveillance system is part of that job.
Anyone can spend a few minutes on google and find out what they do. Have you tried that yet? https://www.flocksafety.com/faq
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Link works perfectly fine for me. Maybe fix your own tech before you comment dumb shit like this.
you work to try and create a surveillance state?
Probe finds Houston police using surveillance tool, meant to deter crime, like a search engine
Flock Safety and Texas Sheriff Claimed License Plate Search Was for a Missing Person. It Was an Abortion Investigation.
Illinois Cops Gave ICE Access to More Than 5,000 Surveillance Cameras Nationwide
Kechi police lieutenant arrested for using police technology to stalk wife
NC police errors with license plate cameras brought wrongful arrests, $70K to women
If you’d like to share your personally-identifying information and details of your daily trips with every local, state, and federal law enforcement agency, that’s your right. But do it on your own time. Don’t expose my information, don’t bring it to my community, and don’t make me pay for it.
I agree. I’m from a huge city in the Midwest where I welcomed the cameras. Crime in my neighborhood was because they travelled there. It helped catch so many criminals and lowered the crime statistics in my specific neighborhood.
what do you mean by ""they"" traveled there?
The people who robbed banks, mugged someone, had an outstanding warrant, etc etc. They didn’t live in my neighborhood.
I’m sorry but I gotta laugh that people tried to think that comment was something other than basics. I lived in an Ethiopian neighborhood. They are super fucking peaceful.