I mean they would likely fail because the majority of people don't want to leave Canada regardless of how anxious they are. Honestly if Canada is so bad why don't they just leave rather than trying to destroy it.
I mean they had foresight and planning enough to take over a party to push things towards the goal of separating. I am sure they can plan well enough to piss off and just leave.
The majority of people who would vote for Alberta to separate would want to live in the US. Unfortunately immigration between Canada and the US isn't that easy. That is something I would like to see Carney and Trump actually make progress on. I'd gladly trade our Maple MAGA crowd for educated Democrats.
Ironically this is something that would likely only progress with Democratic leadership. There was a Dem Senator that floated the idea of making the TN a 10 year open work permit instead of the 3 year, limited scope status that it currently is.
There's a win in there for Trump if it's framed right. He gets to say he's OK with bringing in the right kind of immigrants. Also a migration between our countries would end up favoring Republicans in the next election as most people who would move to the US would vote Republican, and most who would leave would be Democrat voters.
That hardly helps. TN is no easy visa to get. Would be awesome if we could float independently between the 2 countries for work though, instead of relying on others to set it up for us
It’s a product of NAFTA. The intent was never to create a quasi EU agreement, it was to strengthen key sectors in the overall North American economy by allowing professionals to freely work across borders.
Nailed it. Most of them, if not all, can’t get a work Visa elsewhere. Immigration policy favours those educated Dem voters, though. The US has thrived on being a destination of choice for H1B, TN, etc. The damage done to their ability to recruit exceptional talent will be long-lasting.
Definitely. Canadian businesses are failing to identify and assertively act on the opportunity. We can’t rely on US-HQed companies with significant footprints to set the strategy in Canada’s benefit. I suspect some companies with the talent acquisition capabilities to do this are worried about angering the US.
That is something I would like to see Carney and Trump actually make progress on.
Maybe they can work out a trade? They get X number of Maple MAGA and Alberta separatists, and in return we get an equal number of folks who don't want to remain in Trump's America? No take backs.
I agree move if Canada is so bad. I’m proud to be the daughter of Greek immigrants. I AM VERY PROUD TO BE CANADIAN. My parents came in late fifty’s early sixties. Never collected any assistance. I love Canada.
My assumption is that most of the separatist, traitor, MAGA wannabe trash in Alberta, probably can’t leave due to some criminal record, or the lack of an average IQ prevents them from doing so.
99% of the time theyve never lived anywhere else or anywhere outside of Canada and have 0 frame of reference for for why they think it's so bad here
I get a lot of these types through my work and its ALWAYS people who have never lived outside of rural or suburban canada. Thats why they think a 15 minute city is some kind of imprisonment racket and not like... functional infrastructure that other cities already have that makes those cities better
The difference I assume is Quebec was taken over by the English so they want to be free. The people pushing the separation in Alberta just want to be American.
The difference I assume is Quebec was taken over by the English so they want to be free. The people pushing the separation in Alberta just want to be American.
To be free from what? Oppression? How are they oppressed?
Quebec was "taken over" by the English almost over 250 years ago.
Only 17% of people polled want to be a US state while 29% support Alberta being an independent country, so not all the people pushing separation in Alberta want to be American.
You would have to ask them how they are repressed. I am just giving you the back ground which the movement was based on. Likely it is the same reasons as the push in Alberta power and money.
Regardless of what polling says in Alberta that is where the money is coming from to push the separation.
Regardless of what polling says in Alberta that is where the money is coming from to push the separation.
Just like funding for the freedom convoy supposedly came from "MAGA Republicans" right? So you're saying that Albertans who want to be a US state are funding the seperation vote?
Where else is the money coming from? What do Alberta separatists truly have to bitch about? If you want to separate, just leave, don’t try to drag the rest of us with you. Au revoir, Shoshana
They can go to Russia like that one Saskatchewan family, to get away from the "WOKE." Those guys are having ' a good time, and not regretting their decision at ALL....right?
Quebec has always wished they were a separate country, they were conquered after all. So they see it as there land that was occupied by the English.
Alberta wants to join the USA, and the separatists come in two flavors, rich guys who want the oil deregulated and who want easier access to markets, and inbred morons who want to be Americans but who have nothing to offer the USA. Alberta, by the way, was created after confederation, it did not exist before Canada created it.
I have no doubt it is driven by top in the US. It costs them next to nothing but the pay off is huge. Not sure why they need more money other than control.
I feel like it's purely for destabilization to better annex and absorb us. Think about it. If you were gonna kneecap a country what would you start doing? Ports and production first, especially power production. What are Canada's major sources of power? Alberta is one of them. But that's just some speculation. Who knows really, but it's definitely something money or power based and nothing for plebs like us lowly poors (literally anyone that isn't in the 1% club).
Yea I dont particularly care so much, they'd be fighting with the penal legions full of rapists and serial killers before something gets dropped on them while they are freezing trying to take a shit in a fox hole. All to escape the "woke".
To be fair they would collaborate if we got invaded by the US. Already have people in this province trying to doxx people who don't treat Kirk as a Republican's "holy" martyr.
Sure but there is no winning if the US invades us. We could hope to drag it out and make it very costly for them. In the end a small group of people isn't going to have a big impact on the end result.
I had one of these collossal dipshits make a joke that america is more free than we are right now
Ngl it is a level of delusion I dont think we are equipped as a society to handle. The people who want this are in their own simulacrum and we cant penetrate it with logic so what the fuck do we even do
Until we get people making legislation for the internet that actually have spent time on the internet and know how it works this is all going to get a lot worse. The agitprop in our online spaces is INSANE. The rage bait racket is out of control, people are grifting so hard off this shit and nobody who can do anything to stop that are actually doing anything
the quebecois separation movement freaked out the business community so much that the fucking BANK OF MONTREAL moved their operational headquarters from MONTREAL to Toronto.
No, stability is what they want. They’re making money hand over fist, and there’s no meaningful trade barriers or costs to be reduced. The costs of uncertainty and disruption massively outweigh any possible gains they might see.
Seems foolish of the PQ to promise a referendum when there doesn't seem to be the appetite for it outside their party HQ. Quebec voters are leaning towards them because the CAQ is unpopular and the Quebec Liberals are complete mess, not because they're chomping at the bit to tear the country apart.
And really, if they want to see what few remaining big businesses the province has leave, so be it. What happens when CN Rail, Air Canada, Bombardier, Pratt & Whitney Canada, Bell Textron, National Bank of Canada, etc announce they'll move their operations to Ontario if the province votes for separation?
Alberta doesn't quite have the corporate presence that Montreal did back in the day, but there could still be an exodus. Does CPKC stick around or move their HQ down to Kansas City Southern's digs in Missouri?
The referendum will fail... as long as it is done honestly. But the UCP play dirty. Their previous record when it comes to coal mines, the RCMP, CPP, LGBTQ rights, education and health care demonstrate that they have no interest in listening to Albertans, and feel entitled to ram their values down our throats.
We must be on guard and hold them to account to ensure that any political or procedural maneuvering is caught and thwarted
One of the conclusions I drew from the Alberta 2023 election and the CPC election is that the conservatives can't win without lying or manipulating statistics or coming up with some kind of grifty angle. They're snake oil salesmen with a far-right media apparatus to support their success.
Correct. The issue they have is the insano wing. To lead the CPC or UCP, you need to be far right.
In the federal case, that's too far for the general population unless they're ripshit pissed at the incumbent.
In the Alberta case, it wasn't quite, but I suspect that will change as they push further right and the population urbanizes. Probably still close enough for their media lock and big money donors to top the scale for a while, unless the PTPA splits the right.
I'm hoping that the progressatory party does well enough to leech off some progressive conservative voters who, for whatever reason, cannot bring themselves to vote for the NDP but are disgusted with the UCP. I just hope that the PTPA doesn't pull votes from the NDP in places like Nicolaides' riding. Druh Farrell could have won that riding, but lost by a hundred(? It was a thin margin) votes - all of which would have likely gone to her had there been no Alberta party running in that riding, given the AP got those 100 votes.
Putting myself in his shoes, I imagine Guthrie's plan is to split the con vote and spend the resulting NDP term positioning PTAP as the viable conservative option. Maybe he'd look to merge with the UCP for a subsequent election with more controls in place to keep the insano wing locked down.
The referendum will fail... as long as it is done honestly. But the UCP play dirty. Their previous record when it comes to coal mines, the RCMP, CPP, LGBTQ rights, education and health care demonstrate that they have no interest in listening to Albertans, and feel entitled to ram their values down our throats.
Agreed. Not once have they shown themselves to be honest, trustworthy or to play by the rules (even ones that they, themselves made and adjusted).
We must be on guard and hold them to account to ensure that any political or procedural maneuvering is caught and thwarted
Absolutely, though even when holding them to account, they still do whatever is in their best interest anyhow, like with the teacher strike. It is so frustrating how much power the office of the Premier and the provincial governments have, which is the only reason they've been able to not just do what they've done, but be successful at it.
Which only erodes any good faith the NDP already don't have, since they'll be spending the first half of their term merely cleaning up the mess the UCP left them on purpose.
Don't forget that Smith had to change the rules around referendums several times because it kept failing due to unpopularity. The UCP plays dirty and even though separation is unpopular, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to hide the results or take authority on counting the votes.
I disagree with this. The votes won't be fair. There will be interference both from foreign sources, as well as provincial governments desperate to separate.
Daniel Smith and PSPP are desperate to see a yes vote and will do anything to make that happen. It is likely they will seek to achieve this through a combination of various types of manipulation. Because of this, a vote with >50% in favour of separation is not impossible. You can't take the idea of "the majority don't support it" for granted. This could easily go like Brexit, and given the trajectory, I think that's a likely possibility.
Hell, you can see it already. I see people saying all the time that we "have to threaten to separate like Quebec does if we ever want the feds to listen" (as if there would ever be a world where a quarter of the electorate was considered small potatoes)
The hilarious thing is that the separation threat started the downfall of Montreal as Canada’s banking and cultural centre. Businesses moved to Toronto due to the instability. So I guess Alberta can go ahead and try it and see what happens.
The 40-50% support polls are bullshit! They used online polling and had Russian bots, Maga bots and other morons outside the province puff those numbers up and they’ve gone charging ahead dick first into this trying to convince everyone it’s even possible for it to happen despite there being no legal ability to do so!
Oh absolutely, I know individuals like you or I can deduce the obvious bullshit here but there is people out there who really think more than half of this province want to actually leave.
I want the separatist signature gathering to fail in order to prove this that this is just a bot campaign and these echo chambers of are a lot smaller and less numerous than in reality. Also it shames Smith further for being an obvious sucker when she and Rath get made to look stupid when they can only garner maybe 50,000 signatures or something.
And because it's a bad idea all around. The separatists, here in Alberta at least, just think we'd carry on like nothing happened and there'd be all sorts of investment coming in and endless money flying around to be some sort of global superpower. They are incapable of thinking about the negative affects of suddenly not being part of the larger country.
Im sure a lot have records but my inlaws in small town Alberta have clean records good Oil and Gas jobs, nice homes, big loving families, all the toys and hobbies you they can afford, and vacation regularly.
Honestly they are doing great.
They want to leave because they want to do better and think that "Canada" is holding Alberta and this them via O&G back from further succeeding.
I'm a Quebecer from parents who were separatists. They never really found arguments for it, in my mind I do believe Quebec is stronger in Canada then on its own. Don't know for Alberta though.
I'm a Quebecer from parents who were separatists. They never really found arguments for it, in my mind I do believe Quebec is stronger in Canada then on its own.
Quebec nationalism is ethnonationalism. There is no sense to it. The whole thing is emotional, not rational. But emotion wins arguments over rationality. That's the risk.
Just going to point out, you will be much much much worse off than how things went for the UK Brexit.
Take that dumpster fire and multiply 2-3x and that is your actual starting point. Albertas would be even worse as a landlocked province.
Much of the quality of life bonuses quebec enjoys is subsidized by the rest of canada. You also get disproportionate representation in government too. Id be curious how much sweeter of a deal you could get before considering being better on your own.
I don't know what you understand, but this is exactly what I am saying! I can tell it differently: Quebec outside Canada would be weaker than In!!! And I don't know much about Alberta to say if they would be better or worse.
Whops! I somehow read your last sentence backwards!
You are absolutely right then.
Alberta is way way worse off on our own. The only real separation shot we could have is if BC joins in so we would have access to the ocean. In reality, there is maybe 100k people in the province who would want to separate, there is no broad public support for it in the main cities at all. Note sure where the UCP is going to find these magical pro separation voters lol
Tangential, but a weird side effect of living through Alberta separatism as an Albertan is I've become more sympathetic to Quebec separatism, just because the arguments for it look so much more robust by comparison.
Let them have the referendum, once they got they're 12% for yes then we can actively request that Danielle Smith get kick out as Premier and try it to sell Alberta to US and get an actual Premier that care about people here.
Of course they will fail there is no more obvious statement that can be formed in human languages.
The Alberta separatists haven't done anything to sway the general public, they are just happy in their own echo chambers.
If they want to make separation work out, then they have to answer things like what happens to property values, what happens for the First Nations, how does currency work, etc.,etc.. But they haven't so holding any kind of referendum is a ridiculous waste of time.
Any referendum in Quebec will fail because the separatists from olden days are all dead, and nobody there would want to give up those sweet transfer payments that fund all of the social programs in Quebec.
A quebec referendum would likely do better than the alberta one because quebec has a more extensive separatist movement. The separatist movement in alberta is a joke. They aren't lead by anyone well know and they don't have a lot of organization. They got beat by a former deputy minister who has been out of politics for like a decade. That is how bad the separatist movement is in alberta.
They don’t want to leave, they want the best of both worlds. The separatist movement is nothing but a powerful propaganda movement by the oil industry to further deregulate the industry. They look at the absolute free for all that is the Permian basin, and they want that. No regulation whatsoever. Just like pipelines, they just need to keep chipping away in the media and in lobbying efforts to keep the conversation alive and people talking about ‘separation’. If there was no more talk in media or government, even the people who say they are for it would lose interest, and realize that Alberta is just part of Canada, and both have pros and cons to be debated.
This better not be some god damn 50-50% of voters. Something that monumental that would upend life as much as separation needs to be a 2 of 3 voting in favour. An actual majority
According to keyboard warriors on reddit nobody wants to leave Canada. The real world is a little different. I encourage you people to go outside and buy groceries or pay rent… or get a job and enjoy looking at half your wage disappearing in ‘foreign aid’ and mass immigration and fraud. Food for thought.
And how exactly would it get cheaper if we left Canada? You know they publish the federal budget right? My taxes are not 50 percent of my income and most of my taxes pay for services I use such as Healthcare, defense, infrastructure etc. Almost none of the budget goes to stuff like foreign aid.
No, prices are basically the same for most items..I been between both countries over the past ten years. Also, Trump rejected $500 Billion line of credit to you losers. He's not backing a movement that is demanding half the budget of the United States Military and want a handout
I mean they would likely fail because the majority of people don't want to leave Canada regardless of how anxious they are. Honestly if Canada is so bad why don't they just leave rather than trying to destroy it.
I’ll help the seditionists pack.
Yep, GTFO, the lot of them, and never come back. I’ll even help them on their way with a boot to the behind.
"a boot" /s 😂
You gonna fund my leaving?
Already said how I’d help any traitors who want to leave.
pretends to be a separatist for the plane ticket to Italy
Fuck it, I'll chip in on their U-Haul rental.
I'm in !
Heck, I'll bring boxes and my packing tape gun if it'll make them GTFO quicker.
I also have a packing tape gun!! This will be the fastest packing up e v e r....lol
Put ‘em in Uhauls and drop them in N Dakota?
Because that takes foresight and planning. Plus most of these smooth brainers don't meet the qualifications.
I mean they had foresight and planning enough to take over a party to push things towards the goal of separating. I am sure they can plan well enough to piss off and just leave.
Feel good to insult people who you disagree with politically?
The majority of people who would vote for Alberta to separate would want to live in the US. Unfortunately immigration between Canada and the US isn't that easy. That is something I would like to see Carney and Trump actually make progress on. I'd gladly trade our Maple MAGA crowd for educated Democrats.
Ironically this is something that would likely only progress with Democratic leadership. There was a Dem Senator that floated the idea of making the TN a 10 year open work permit instead of the 3 year, limited scope status that it currently is.
There's a win in there for Trump if it's framed right. He gets to say he's OK with bringing in the right kind of immigrants. Also a migration between our countries would end up favoring Republicans in the next election as most people who would move to the US would vote Republican, and most who would leave would be Democrat voters.
I personally would be 100% okay with exporting Rural Alberta to deep red States.
Imagine their face when that first bill from the hospital comes in.
It will be a case of you don't realize how good you had it until it's gone
Maple MAGA is more than just rural Alberta unfortunately. But the billboards from Edmonton to Calgary on highway 2 look like a boomers Facebook wall.
That hardly helps. TN is no easy visa to get. Would be awesome if we could float independently between the 2 countries for work though, instead of relying on others to set it up for us
TN is super easy if you have the right credentials. People run into issues when they try to fit a square peg into a round hole so to speak.
The right credentials eliminate >95% of the population. Also, relying on companies to set you up for the TN Visa is hardly "floating independently"
It’s a product of NAFTA. The intent was never to create a quasi EU agreement, it was to strengthen key sectors in the overall North American economy by allowing professionals to freely work across borders.
Deal.
Let’s hammer out the paperwork.
Nailed it. Most of them, if not all, can’t get a work Visa elsewhere. Immigration policy favours those educated Dem voters, though. The US has thrived on being a destination of choice for H1B, TN, etc. The damage done to their ability to recruit exceptional talent will be long-lasting.
This is a major thing that will take years to see the long term effects of. Really wish we would up our game to recruit that talent.
Definitely. Canadian businesses are failing to identify and assertively act on the opportunity. We can’t rely on US-HQed companies with significant footprints to set the strategy in Canada’s benefit. I suspect some companies with the talent acquisition capabilities to do this are worried about angering the US.
Maybe they can work out a trade? They get X number of Maple MAGA and Alberta separatists, and in return we get an equal number of folks who don't want to remain in Trump's America? No take backs.
They would likely for conservative if we let them in though. As they are much closer to the democrats.
That's an outdated statement. Our conservatives are much closer to Repubicans now than they ever were to Democrats.
No thanks
Why not? Seems like a win for everyone involved.
I agree move if Canada is so bad. I’m proud to be the daughter of Greek immigrants. I AM VERY PROUD TO BE CANADIAN. My parents came in late fifty’s early sixties. Never collected any assistance. I love Canada.
We don't punish people for sedition anymore. Once we stopped doing that we let these ideas fester and destroy our society.
Which is to bad.
My assumption is that most of the separatist, traitor, MAGA wannabe trash in Alberta, probably can’t leave due to some criminal record, or the lack of an average IQ prevents them from doing so.
99% of the time theyve never lived anywhere else or anywhere outside of Canada and have 0 frame of reference for for why they think it's so bad here
I get a lot of these types through my work and its ALWAYS people who have never lived outside of rural or suburban canada. Thats why they think a 15 minute city is some kind of imprisonment racket and not like... functional infrastructure that other cities already have that makes those cities better
Likely the case.
Just need some gas money and for mom to buy a house down south so they have somewhere to live
Serious question - why are Separatists in Alberta labelled "trash traitors" yet those in Quebec are given a free pass?
I'm assuming it's because of the supposed right wing leanings of those separatists in Alberta?
The difference I assume is Quebec was taken over by the English so they want to be free. The people pushing the separation in Alberta just want to be American.
To be free from what? Oppression? How are they oppressed?
Quebec was "taken over" by the English almost over 250 years ago.
Only 17% of people polled want to be a US state while 29% support Alberta being an independent country, so not all the people pushing separation in Alberta want to be American.
https://leger360.com/in-the-news-alberta-separatism/
You would have to ask them how they are repressed. I am just giving you the back ground which the movement was based on. Likely it is the same reasons as the push in Alberta power and money.
Regardless of what polling says in Alberta that is where the money is coming from to push the separation.
Just like funding for the freedom convoy supposedly came from "MAGA Republicans" right? So you're saying that Albertans who want to be a US state are funding the seperation vote?
Where else is the money coming from? What do Alberta separatists truly have to bitch about? If you want to separate, just leave, don’t try to drag the rest of us with you. Au revoir, Shoshana
They're not. Every separatist is a trash traitor. The difference is the Alberta ones have a MAGA bent which makes them extra unlikeable.
How old are you? Go away, bot
Wow, I'm labelled a bot just for asking a simple question.
Happy New Year to you too!
I wish you the best in 2026.
And Im sure all of them have a higher IQ than you
Sure thing, Russian Bot
They can go to Russia like that one Saskatchewan family, to get away from the "WOKE." Those guys are having ' a good time, and not regretting their decision at ALL....right?
More people in Saskatchewan need to go to Russia. We can start with Scott Moe and many of his supporters
Yeah that one had me scratching my head.
Because they can't.
Exactly what I came to say. The few are noisy making it seem like there are more of them.
Because no other country wants them
Surely we could make it part of the trade deal we need to negotiate coming up.
Exactly. They’d fail because the majority of people aren’t idiots, thank God,
Exactly. The rest of us aren't a bunch of selfish assholes, and we actually love and appreciate the country we live in.
Becauae they are losers, failed in society. They want to destroy it so that they get a chance again.
Right?! They all have the money to leave and go wherever they choose. The rest of us poors have to stick it out and try and make it better.
Quebec has always wished they were a separate country, they were conquered after all. So they see it as there land that was occupied by the English.
Alberta wants to join the USA, and the separatists come in two flavors, rich guys who want the oil deregulated and who want easier access to markets, and inbred morons who want to be Americans but who have nothing to offer the USA. Alberta, by the way, was created after confederation, it did not exist before Canada created it.
Real talk. The answer is always because money. These goofs are just pawns in a bigger game.
I have no doubt it is driven by top in the US. It costs them next to nothing but the pay off is huge. Not sure why they need more money other than control.
I feel like it's purely for destabilization to better annex and absorb us. Think about it. If you were gonna kneecap a country what would you start doing? Ports and production first, especially power production. What are Canada's major sources of power? Alberta is one of them. But that's just some speculation. Who knows really, but it's definitely something money or power based and nothing for plebs like us lowly poors (literally anyone that isn't in the 1% club).
Leave quebec , our home? Yea FU bud
Can't afford the Trump bribe for citizenship so gotta screw the rest of us
They could start a go fund me.
Could try Russia too since that's apparently the Christian Mecca now and not the Vatican.
Theyve treated all the North Americans who fled their nice right?
Sure but I'd rather not give them more free soldiers.
Yea I dont particularly care so much, they'd be fighting with the penal legions full of rapists and serial killers before something gets dropped on them while they are freezing trying to take a shit in a fox hole. All to escape the "woke".
Sure but I would still prefer them not be sent to invade another country.
To be fair they would collaborate if we got invaded by the US. Already have people in this province trying to doxx people who don't treat Kirk as a Republican's "holy" martyr.
Sure but there is no winning if the US invades us. We could hope to drag it out and make it very costly for them. In the end a small group of people isn't going to have a big impact on the end result.
Because its actually incredibly difficult to immigrate
Sure but it will keep the distracted for a bit anyways.
Separation Referendums should fail due to common fucking sense
I had one of these collossal dipshits make a joke that america is more free than we are right now
Ngl it is a level of delusion I dont think we are equipped as a society to handle. The people who want this are in their own simulacrum and we cant penetrate it with logic so what the fuck do we even do
Until we get people making legislation for the internet that actually have spent time on the internet and know how it works this is all going to get a lot worse. The agitprop in our online spaces is INSANE. The rage bait racket is out of control, people are grifting so hard off this shit and nobody who can do anything to stop that are actually doing anything
the quebecois separation movement freaked out the business community so much that the fucking BANK OF MONTREAL moved their operational headquarters from MONTREAL to Toronto.
And oil companies will move out of Alberta
Many already have
Yep and it's helping drive investment away from the province further than what the UCP's meddling has already done.
Not just the province but Canada. No matter how anti-oil people wanna be, it’s still one of our biggest GDP producers.
Source?
Imperial Oil, for example.
Oil companies are driving this actually. Likely a ploy to turn into 51st state resource colony.
Will they?
Won’t this excite the American owned oil companies?
No, stability is what they want. They’re making money hand over fist, and there’s no meaningful trade barriers or costs to be reduced. The costs of uncertainty and disruption massively outweigh any possible gains they might see.
Makes sense.
But if Alberta separated, how long before it was the 51st state?
Alberta separating is so unlikely that it’s not worth planning for what it would look like. It’s an extremely small percentage of crazies
What is worth planning for is what damage could be caused by humoring those crazies, regardless of the fact there’s no viable path to them winning
While not likely, need to take it serious to dispel the crazies.
Though, our “fearless leader” would like that potential damage, then she can push to privatize more an use the boogeyman to scare her base
that wouldn’t happen. they’d be in a brexit situation; realizing they made a horrible mistake and try to slowly come back to the fold.
As an Albertan, if we somehow vote to separate, first, I’ll be moving and second, will hope Canada never lets them rejoin
Seems foolish of the PQ to promise a referendum when there doesn't seem to be the appetite for it outside their party HQ. Quebec voters are leaning towards them because the CAQ is unpopular and the Quebec Liberals are complete mess, not because they're chomping at the bit to tear the country apart.
And really, if they want to see what few remaining big businesses the province has leave, so be it. What happens when CN Rail, Air Canada, Bombardier, Pratt & Whitney Canada, Bell Textron, National Bank of Canada, etc announce they'll move their operations to Ontario if the province votes for separation?
Alberta doesn't quite have the corporate presence that Montreal did back in the day, but there could still be an exodus. Does CPKC stick around or move their HQ down to Kansas City Southern's digs in Missouri?
They wouldn't fail because they are insane ideas that are completely untenable?
The referendum will fail... as long as it is done honestly. But the UCP play dirty. Their previous record when it comes to coal mines, the RCMP, CPP, LGBTQ rights, education and health care demonstrate that they have no interest in listening to Albertans, and feel entitled to ram their values down our throats.
We must be on guard and hold them to account to ensure that any political or procedural maneuvering is caught and thwarted
One of the conclusions I drew from the Alberta 2023 election and the CPC election is that the conservatives can't win without lying or manipulating statistics or coming up with some kind of grifty angle. They're snake oil salesmen with a far-right media apparatus to support their success.
Correct. The issue they have is the insano wing. To lead the CPC or UCP, you need to be far right.
In the federal case, that's too far for the general population unless they're ripshit pissed at the incumbent.
In the Alberta case, it wasn't quite, but I suspect that will change as they push further right and the population urbanizes. Probably still close enough for their media lock and big money donors to top the scale for a while, unless the PTPA splits the right.
I'm hoping that the progressatory party does well enough to leech off some progressive conservative voters who, for whatever reason, cannot bring themselves to vote for the NDP but are disgusted with the UCP. I just hope that the PTPA doesn't pull votes from the NDP in places like Nicolaides' riding. Druh Farrell could have won that riding, but lost by a hundred(? It was a thin margin) votes - all of which would have likely gone to her had there been no Alberta party running in that riding, given the AP got those 100 votes.
Putting myself in his shoes, I imagine Guthrie's plan is to split the con vote and spend the resulting NDP term positioning PTAP as the viable conservative option. Maybe he'd look to merge with the UCP for a subsequent election with more controls in place to keep the insano wing locked down.
Agreed. Not once have they shown themselves to be honest, trustworthy or to play by the rules (even ones that they, themselves made and adjusted).
Absolutely, though even when holding them to account, they still do whatever is in their best interest anyhow, like with the teacher strike. It is so frustrating how much power the office of the Premier and the provincial governments have, which is the only reason they've been able to not just do what they've done, but be successful at it.
Which only erodes any good faith the NDP already don't have, since they'll be spending the first half of their term merely cleaning up the mess the UCP left them on purpose.
Separatists are like indoor house cats. They act like they own the place but are utterly dependent on the system around them.
Yeah, but unlike my cats, I won’t miss separatists when they leave.
Hahaha and you can’t put them down when they start peeing everywhere
Don't forget that Smith had to change the rules around referendums several times because it kept failing due to unpopularity. The UCP plays dirty and even though separation is unpopular, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to hide the results or take authority on counting the votes.
They'd fail because it's an act of treason. Vote Smith out!
I disagree with this. The votes won't be fair. There will be interference both from foreign sources, as well as provincial governments desperate to separate.
Daniel Smith and PSPP are desperate to see a yes vote and will do anything to make that happen. It is likely they will seek to achieve this through a combination of various types of manipulation. Because of this, a vote with >50% in favour of separation is not impossible. You can't take the idea of "the majority don't support it" for granted. This could easily go like Brexit, and given the trajectory, I think that's a likely possibility.
Hell, you can see it already. I see people saying all the time that we "have to threaten to separate like Quebec does if we ever want the feds to listen" (as if there would ever be a world where a quarter of the electorate was considered small potatoes)
The hilarious thing is that the separation threat started the downfall of Montreal as Canada’s banking and cultural centre. Businesses moved to Toronto due to the instability. So I guess Alberta can go ahead and try it and see what happens.
The 40-50% support polls are bullshit! They used online polling and had Russian bots, Maga bots and other morons outside the province puff those numbers up and they’ve gone charging ahead dick first into this trying to convince everyone it’s even possible for it to happen despite there being no legal ability to do so!
There would be such an obscene amount of foriegn interference around any kind of potential referendum.
Any poll where you can answer using a VPN should be disregarded.
Oh absolutely, I know individuals like you or I can deduce the obvious bullshit here but there is people out there who really think more than half of this province want to actually leave.
I want the separatist signature gathering to fail in order to prove this that this is just a bot campaign and these echo chambers of are a lot smaller and less numerous than in reality. Also it shames Smith further for being an obvious sucker when she and Rath get made to look stupid when they can only garner maybe 50,000 signatures or something.
Anyone who disagrees with me is a Russian bot ☝️🤓
They’d fail because they’re a terrible idea.
The AB referendum is likely to fail due to severe unpopularity
The separatists should have to gather more signatures than the Forever Canadian movement. End of story. Back your shit up with the numbers or GTFO.
Never forgot the ucp hate Canada and support separation
That only matters if they're shown the door and how unacceptable their views are between now and the election.
And because it's a bad idea all around. The separatists, here in Alberta at least, just think we'd carry on like nothing happened and there'd be all sorts of investment coming in and endless money flying around to be some sort of global superpower. They are incapable of thinking about the negative affects of suddenly not being part of the larger country.
Is this how they'll try and frame it? "Can't seperate because you're a coward, guess it's time for the real Albertans to step up"
Regardless I have a feeling those fool separatists will just go suck trumps nuts right out of the gate until he makes Alberta the new Puerto Rico
The majorty of alberta does not want to leave a veru vocal minority abd othef countrys do.
no shit?
Im sure a lot have records but my inlaws in small town Alberta have clean records good Oil and Gas jobs, nice homes, big loving families, all the toys and hobbies you they can afford, and vacation regularly.
Honestly they are doing great.
They want to leave because they want to do better and think that "Canada" is holding Alberta and this them via O&G back from further succeeding.
Anxiety? Doubting the future is called due diligence.
I'm a Quebecer from parents who were separatists. They never really found arguments for it, in my mind I do believe Quebec is stronger in Canada then on its own. Don't know for Alberta though.
Boom bust economies would make a great separatist nation /s
The flip side to that is Canada’s economy would go sterile considering O&G is still one of the largest GDP producers
Quebec nationalism is ethnonationalism. There is no sense to it. The whole thing is emotional, not rational. But emotion wins arguments over rationality. That's the risk.
Just going to point out, you will be much much much worse off than how things went for the UK Brexit.
Take that dumpster fire and multiply 2-3x and that is your actual starting point. Albertas would be even worse as a landlocked province.
Much of the quality of life bonuses quebec enjoys is subsidized by the rest of canada. You also get disproportionate representation in government too. Id be curious how much sweeter of a deal you could get before considering being better on your own.
I don't know what you understand, but this is exactly what I am saying! I can tell it differently: Quebec outside Canada would be weaker than In!!! And I don't know much about Alberta to say if they would be better or worse.
Whops! I somehow read your last sentence backwards! You are absolutely right then.
Alberta is way way worse off on our own. The only real separation shot we could have is if BC joins in so we would have access to the ocean. In reality, there is maybe 100k people in the province who would want to separate, there is no broad public support for it in the main cities at all. Note sure where the UCP is going to find these magical pro separation voters lol
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Thats exactly my point.
I misunderstood I thought you were saying Quebec could survive solo.
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That so called independency only benefits private corporation. Citizens of so called nation after independence will suffer decades.
Legit question from out of province, is the vote the same as a union vote, one person shows up to vote and votes yes is considered 100% yes?
Tangential, but a weird side effect of living through Alberta separatism as an Albertan is I've become more sympathetic to Quebec separatism, just because the arguments for it look so much more robust by comparison.
And Quebec separatism was a disaster for Quebec. Even the threat of separatism caused businesses to flee Montreal.
Let them have the referendum, once they got they're 12% for yes then we can actively request that Danielle Smith get kick out as Premier and try it to sell Alberta to US and get an actual Premier that care about people here.
Of course they will fail there is no more obvious statement that can be formed in human languages.
The Alberta separatists haven't done anything to sway the general public, they are just happy in their own echo chambers.
If they want to make separation work out, then they have to answer things like what happens to property values, what happens for the First Nations, how does currency work, etc.,etc.. But they haven't so holding any kind of referendum is a ridiculous waste of time.
Any referendum in Quebec will fail because the separatists from olden days are all dead, and nobody there would want to give up those sweet transfer payments that fund all of the social programs in Quebec.
A quebec referendum would likely do better than the alberta one because quebec has a more extensive separatist movement. The separatist movement in alberta is a joke. They aren't lead by anyone well know and they don't have a lot of organization. They got beat by a former deputy minister who has been out of politics for like a decade. That is how bad the separatist movement is in alberta.
Likely to fail no matter what.
They don’t want to leave, they want the best of both worlds. The separatist movement is nothing but a powerful propaganda movement by the oil industry to further deregulate the industry. They look at the absolute free for all that is the Permian basin, and they want that. No regulation whatsoever. Just like pipelines, they just need to keep chipping away in the media and in lobbying efforts to keep the conversation alive and people talking about ‘separation’. If there was no more talk in media or government, even the people who say they are for it would lose interest, and realize that Alberta is just part of Canada, and both have pros and cons to be debated.
People who want to leave Canada why don’t they just bugger off somewhere else.
Christ !
This better not be some god damn 50-50% of voters. Something that monumental that would upend life as much as separation needs to be a 2 of 3 voting in favour. An actual majority
Doesn't matter. Act like it will succeed
According to keyboard warriors on reddit nobody wants to leave Canada. The real world is a little different. I encourage you people to go outside and buy groceries or pay rent… or get a job and enjoy looking at half your wage disappearing in ‘foreign aid’ and mass immigration and fraud. Food for thought.
And how exactly would it get cheaper if we left Canada? You know they publish the federal budget right? My taxes are not 50 percent of my income and most of my taxes pay for services I use such as Healthcare, defense, infrastructure etc. Almost none of the budget goes to stuff like foreign aid.
No, prices are basically the same for most items..I been between both countries over the past ten years. Also, Trump rejected $500 Billion line of credit to you losers. He's not backing a movement that is demanding half the budget of the United States Military and want a handout
If you’re being taxed at 50% you don’t struggle with groceries lol
Unless they are earning over $250k a year.
That’s what I’m saying lol if they’re in that tax bracket bro isn’t struggling to buy groceries
and that's happening in the United States as well. Oh well, someone is not in the real world.
My anxiety fuels my desire to leave the confederation, because my anxiety is rooted in the likely failure of the confederation.
That's not the reason.