Well, I've seen many people think that the German Empire and Tanya are the Nazis, but the reality is that they're not. They're not even the villains of the story because there are no villains in this story.
Youjo Senki is based on World War I, although it has some touches of World War II, but it's really based, as its name indicates, on the German Empire. The Empire didn't want to go to war; in fact, its idea was different.
When Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary, Germany gave Austria a blank check. The idea behind this was to pressure Serbia. How was the small Serbia going to confront the German giant and Austria-Hungary? Serbia accepted almost all the demands in the Austrian ultimatum; however, Austria decided to start a war anyway, despite Germany's pressure not to. This ended up leading to World War I.
In Youjo Senki, it seems that after the start of the war, both empires united to create a larger, more unified one, thus improving politics and logistics.
But as you can see, it has nothing to do with the Nazis.
The Nazis emerged after the end of World War I, largely due to the excessive punishment inflicted on Germany, singled out as the sole culprit of the war, when in reality it was Austria-Hungary, among other things. These factors led to the new republic's instability and the collapse of the German economy, thus facilitating the Nazis' rise to power.
In Youjo Senki, this hasn't happened yet. The war didn't end in 1918 but was still ongoing in 1929, making it impossible for the Nazis to have come to power by that date. Without the defeat of the German Empire, the Nazis would never have risen to power.
The clearest proof of this is simple: we hear them refer to the emperor several times. Hitler never held that title, so they're referring to the Emperor of the German Empire, Wilhelm II.
I'm surprised by the number of people who think the empire is Nazis and describe Tanya as "the Nazi loli" when Nazis don't even exist in Youjo Senki. (Although, from what I know of the novels, it seems they might appear in the future.)
Agree, the Empire is essentially WW I era Germany with some tweaks (Austria-Hungary added, among others).
In some ways it is more like a centralized HRE.
Just need to replace the dragon with an eagle.
Its rather the "Großdeutsche Lösung" (greater german solution), wich was a proposal from northern germany in the 1800s, for austria and prussia to unite with all their non german parts.
This plan lived on, even after the franko-prussian war, but in that case without hungary.
I'm pretty sure that the Germany in the story is Grossdeutschland, the greater german solution to the unification question, where a Germany is formed that includes the Habsburg patrimony.
In IRL history, the Germany that forms is Kleindeustchland, lesser Germany, which explicitly excludes Austria and the Habsburg lands and consists of all the other German states federating under Prussian leadership.
How this could have happened is an interesting question. I think 1848, the Springtime of the Peoples, would be the big turning point here. The Frankfurt Assembly, including delegates from all the German lands, declared a Reich based on parliamentary democracy and offered the crown to the King of Prussia. He refused IRL but what if he didn't in this timeline? That would mesh with the capital of Germany in-story being Berlin.
Also the King of Denmark offered to join the North German Confederation after they lost the Schleswig war if they could retain Schleswig and have their territorial integrity guaranteed. Which Bismarck rejected because he didn't want other ethnicities in his future empire. An alternate Reich accepting that with Denmark as an autonomous state or something is not out of the question.
I just can't see the Reich getting the lowlands. The British would never acquiesce to that. Those areas are fantastic jump off points for an invasion of the British Isles. It's why Britain specifically carved Belgium out and got everyone in Europe to guarantee its neutrality.
I mean it is an alternet history. Maybe migration patterns of cultures are also different with the low lands likely having a larger germanic population.
Idk the lowlands were the heartlands of the Frankish tribes, who were very Germanic, and Charlemagne's capital was Aachen, which is basically on the border with Belgium.
For some people German = Nazi
Exactly!
Just because I’m German doesn’t mean that I’m a Nazi! I mean, I am a Nazi, but not because I’m German!
/s
Unfortunately alot of germans also think like that.
Do people really think that, I know many like to call her Loli Hitler which I believe is mostly rage bait. But honestly.......how little historical knowledge do you have to have to make such an assumption. Perhaps that's an American thing?
Surprisingly, it's a Hispanic fandom thing. I'm from Spain, but I know many people from Latin America who think this way, and they refer to Youjo Senki as "the Nazi loli anime."
Lol true, I'm from latam and yeah they refer to her here ALWAYS as the nazi loli, sad bcs many people think it's about ww2 and don't give it a try, on a second note, the manga is more ww2: tanks, ships and and uniforms
That is something I wouldn't have expected. I know Spain stayed mostly neutral during both wars and from Latin America only Brazil fought in both wars (I think Brazil was the only Latin American country to join WW1). So it seems to be a thing with countries that weren't involved in both or either wars.
Spain was undergoing two major political changes during both wars. In the second, the country was emerging from a civil war and was under a fascist dictatorship. While Franco did support the Axis powers, he wasn't directly involved in the war.
The way she hates communists, reminds us of Hitler and jews
She hates communists because she's a liberal pragmatist. In fact, many liberals hate communists, some even writing lengthy books "hating" them, hating them as much as they hated the Nazis.
The reason doesn't matter, it's funny and I love it
B-b-b-b-ut it says in the title that Tanya is EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVILLLLLL!!!
In English, which is part of the problem.
To be fair, the anime is basicly the allies recreation of their story. So alot of vets bias.
That's because you're an intelligent and informed individual in both, our world's history and Tanya's world story. But unfortunately, in the age of the information, most prefer to remain ignorant.
During the time when information is abundant and widespread, instead of being stuck to books in a library. We don't pursue knowledge and information...
Sigh...
There are more flatearthers today, than in ancient times.
And back then its was proven by 2 sticks in the sand and spread threw the world on a "trust me bro" basis. Yet most aknowelded that by basic natural observation, like ships leaving a harbor or walking away from a tower.
People like then knew less then us, but were more open to learn it.
No villains ❌ Everyone is a villain ✅
Quoting the Incredible Syndrome: And when everyone is super, no one will be. This also applies to being the bad guys xD
Mfs will see cross and red, black and white colors and assume it's nazi
I like how you posted this in the one community that knows this already
Some people may not know this; I have friends from the USA who were taught in school that the Germans started the war and that they were already Nazis in the first one.
No I mean this subreddit itself is constantly reminding people that the Empire is inspired by the Kasierreich (German Empire) so you would have been better off posting this somewhere like r/Isekai where people are less familiar with the series and as such just go by surface glances
Maybe I'll repost it.
Pretty sure nazi loli is the most frequent mistake people make about youjo senki
without a doubt
I think it's mostly just a joke cuz girly is a sociopathic warmonger from germany during the great war. Nazi loli is admitedly very funny and gets the point across
Yeah, 'Loli Hitler' is the fastest and funniest way to describe Tanya imo, I think her personality lines up pretty well from what we know of him, and that might even be intended, Hitler was a soldier in WWI, after all.
I don’t think this is a common confusion for anyone, save the very fringes of the fandom.
I know this, and i think there are people who do. however, "Nazi Loli" is funny to some people, so it will be spread regardless
There is a villan in thsi story and its beriya and being x. Using psychic vodoo powers to make people declare war is something only a villain would do
I dont think there is any indication that they united after the start of the current war. It, to me at least, seems that they also had the german wars of unification(with Helmuth von Moltke being referenced in the novels) but unlike in our world the greater german solution was chosen by the ones in power, meaning austria became a part of the empire.
This the Serbia thing never happened in this timeline and the war didnt start until the Nordland incident in the early 1920s. We literally see the start of the war which is the Entente invasions failure. The Soviets also took over earlier in this timeline since they should be heavily struggling and no where near a war footing if this timeline was that close to ours.
I dont think a full explanation is ever given but its likely the Brothers war somehow ending in Prussian and Austrian unification under the Prussians given more Prussian than Austrian culture of the Empire and the Capital being Not!Berlin.
Yes, I agree, but there's the Lori Naz meme.
Calling it a nazi anime means there should be people with nazi beliefs in it as a minimum right?
I would say it should advertise the nazi beliefs as the correct stans for it to be a nazi anime.
Youjo Senki dose neither.
All the claim of it being nazi propaganda is purely based in it being about a fantasy country mostly based on Germany and fantasy world war (technically it would be the first world war in the youjo senki univers)
I don't think both real history and Youjo Senki should be compared so literally either. For what I managed to understand the empire has been around for at least one generation, hence the mention to how back in the day the women in the army usually belonged to the royal family. As for the war itself it really depends on the fronts. The Rhine front is mostly WW1. To the North it's kinda like WW2 but mostly its own thing. The eastern front is attrition warfare so also enters in WW1 territory. But the African campaign? They have Rommel, that's all I have to say about it. I'd just like to state how pointless it is to try to fit every event in our own timeline. It's impossible. But one thing is for certain. The empire is The Empire, The Second Reich, the accomplishment of Bismarck's endeavours. And has NOTHING to do with Nazi Germany. Don't insult Tanya and the Kaiser like that.
I say its a common misconception of ww1.
I'd argue anyone that needs an explanation like this is probably too stupid to understand the story anyway, and we're all better off with them staying away
The story clearly wants to address some topics related to the Nazis, even if it doesn't contextualize them historically or directly mention them. Obviously, a story doesn't need to explicitly state a theme to address it in some way (take Fullmetal Alchemist as an example, where there is no mention of the Nazis and the story takes place before the World War II period, but it is still a narrative that deals with the Nazi ethos).
The YS movie, for example, makes an extradiagetic critique of the Patriotic War narrative without ever mentioning World War II.
Now, it's still an exaggeration to call Tanya (and her allies) Nazis. The author only picks up on some Nazi aspects, while denying others, sometimes quite incisively.
I think the most obvious Nazi theme in YS is the same one described by Hannah Arendt in "The Banality of Evil," which is why the story begins with the description of experiments that illustrate this banality, all influenced by the Nazi experience. There's no denying that.
That there are "Nazi" elements is obvious, like at the beginning of the film with the war in Africa, or the existence of General Rommel. But the fact that the war supposedly only ends at the end of the series implies that there couldn't have been any Nazis at any point during that period. And as I explained in the post, in the First World War, there really wasn't "a bad guy"; the closest thing was Austria, not Germany.
It's not that there are "elements" (element is a word you brought up that doesn't fit with what I explained), but rather that the theme addresses Nazism and that the story has themes about Nazism. All of this is much more significant than having a Nazi character or a reference to a Nazi.
The Lord of the Rings doesn't mention Christianity and no character is affiliated with Christianity (after all, the historical context of the narrative is a pre-Christian mythology), but it is a story about Christianity above all else, or, as Tolkien said: a fundamentally religious and Catholic story.
Talking about historical period is foolish here; it's removing the narrative references and clinging only to the historical lineage. You don't need to be very smart to understand that the high-ranking officials in FMA emulate the Nazi high-ranking officials out of a desire for the new Germanic man, even though the entire story takes place in a counterfactual prior to the rise of the Nazis in the high ranks and the story never makes any reference to them.
The same occurs with Youjo Senki. When people say Tanya is a Nazi, the correct response isn't "ehhh, Nazism didn't even come to power during that time, guys," because not everyone is making a historical interpretation of this association, but rather a thematic, narrative one, etc. (incorrect associations in this case, since Tanya doesn't hold Nazi ideals).
It's not that it didn't arrive in "that era," but rather that Nazism couldn't exist within the story for two reasons. There isn't the same sense of outrage from Germany/Imperial Germany for being humiliated and mistreated. In Youjo Senki, there isn't as much ideology; the wars are more pragmatic. As I said, there are elements and references to the Nazis, but Tanya and the empire certainly aren't Nazis.
1 - It's historical fiction, therefore it doesn't need to emulate the same real justifications for historical events (YS doesn't even do that with World War I, by the way, why would it need to do that for there to be a Nazi?);
2 - I insist, not everyone, when using "Nazi loli," is trying to make a real ideological affiliation statement for the character of Tanya, but rather a thematic/narrative association. So the Nazis don't even need to exist in the world of YS for Tanya to be called a Nazi, because the Nazis existed in our world, so we can make the narrative associations (review the example with Lord of the Rings);
3 - I agree that Tanya is not a Nazi (she's far from it, actually), but for reasons other than "oh, the Nazis couldn't exist in that historical period."
Actually, you've made a serious mistake here, so to speak. Watch the full-length film and carefully evaluate how they portray non-Soviet people. How could they not be a horde of darkness?
In fact, this is one of the main complaints about the "Saga" in Russia since the film's release. While all the other opponents of the Empire are portrayed, albeit somewhat stereotypically, but still respectfully, only the non-Soviet ones are literally dehumanized...
They are truly faithful to how the USSR acted, and although more dehumanized, they still didn't get involved in the war just for the sake of it. There isn't anyone you can say, "These are the bad guys because everything they do is screwing everyone else over." There are no "Nazis," because in the First World War there wasn't a single "bad guy."
What? One of the leaders of the non-USSR is a psychotic loli lover... There are no heroic characters among the non-USSR soldiers, although even the Nordics had their own supermage. The non-USSR troops are depicted as something between a crowd of zombies and a horde of orcs rushing to assault a wave of meat... Again, the episode with Tanya's attack on Moscow very clearly reverse mirrors some events of the IRL assault on Berlin in World War II, which is really bad because of those fucking Nazis.
This is complete crap, and you won't find anything comparable to this level of nonsense in any other country. Even Dacia is presented simply as a slightly stagnant country, without any malice.
If not the author himself, then the animators are clearly biased. And yes, why the non-USSR and not the non-Russian Empire, if the Saga is about the hypothetical First World War?
As a nation, they haven't really done anything wrong; they only joined the war after the empire became a threat, that's what I mean.
As a nation, the USSR in Saga represents precisely what Tanya hates. A coincidence? I don't think so.