Obviously Jackie finding out Shauna and Jeff were fucking was pretty big incentive to decide to "lose her virginity" to Travis. Lots of people express concern over this plan, given Travis and Nat's relationship, which Jackie brushes off.
I don't think she's just being unkind or insensitive to Nat. I think she and Jeff never loved each other and had a fairly lackluster connection. I suspect Jackie projects this is just how people feel in their relationships. Even with Jeff cheating, she seems more upset about the betrayal of him and Shauna than the actual idea of them together. Since Nat and Travis broke up, it wouldn't be a "betrayal", and I think she sincerely just doesnt understand having more intense or genuine feelings for a romantic partner, and therefore doesnt really understand why everyone's freaking out about it.
One of the biggest issues Jackie had was that she was still hung up on real world, teenager type squabbles and issues. I'm not saying it was her fault at all, but she was on the brink of giving up completely by the time she slept with Travis, focusing on just wanting to knock something off her bucket list.
In the real world, the response from the other girls would've been far less feral. But it pretty much otracised her on the spot instead, marking the point that societal norms really started to unravel in the wilderness.
Yep. Jackie's leadership qualities were suited for normal life, but out in the wilderness the same qualities don't make you the alpha.
I agree that Jackie probably didn't have deep feelings for Jeff and that may be part of why she justified seducing Travis, but I can't stop thinking about how she had beef with Natalie beforehand.
In s1, Nat and Travis came back to the cabin holding hands but without any kills from hunting. Everyone else whistled and sang "Nat and Travis sitting in a tree" but Jackie accosts them. She thinks the reason they're all starving is because Nat and Travis were too busy hooking up instead of hunting. She takes it a step further though and slut shames Nat, and things almost escalate to physical violence between them.
So I think that Jackie held onto that mentality towards Nat and it feuled her decision to sleep with Travis. Plus Jackie and Jeff had broken up and gotten back together several times before the crash, and during those breaks Jackie just assumed Jeff had never slept with anyone else. So if anyone, Jackie should have felt that Travis wasn't fair game just because he and Nat had recently broken up.
I think a lot of it was anger, hurt feelings, and depression, with smidgen of skewed perception based on her lack of feelings for Jeff... but I think a tad of it was personal and her animosity towards Nat played a part.
Oh yeah, I feel like Jackie def had some disdain or at least judgement towards Nat. I 100% agree that's there, I just meant i don't think it's the full picture.
Well thought out take!
Before the crash, Nat very much looks to be an outsider to the group, slut shamed and known as the school burnout. While some of the girls probably didn't care, for someone like Jackie who was the top of the high school hierarchy I can see her really looking down her nose at someone like Nat.
Out in the wilderness, anyone else who held the opinion of Nat realised they were wrong as she became one of the critical members of the group, but Jackie was still clinging onto her pre crash 'queen bee' status as much as she could, which played into her issue with Nat as well. She still saw herself as better than her, even when she was pretty much useless out there.
kinda crackpot theory, but if the "jackie is a lesbian with comp het" theory is true, it could also be because she thought everyone didn't take m/f sex very seriously since she wasn't able to take it seriously. the whole "im definitely straight, it's normal to feel so indifferent about being with men" mindset is common with a lot of lesbians before they realize theyre gay
what is comp het?
compulsory heterosexuality. the way that the lesbian community uses it today is a little different from its original definition (long story there) but it essentially means that women, especially lesbians, have societal pressures to be with men and to think that their desires are unimportant/things like "women don't like sex"/etc, and so they think they must be straight and must act in a straight way. it's internalized heteronormativity combined with internalized misogyny
thank you for explaining!
That and they lost Laura Lee, they all thought they were gonna starve to death, and Jackie (popular theory) had suicidal behavior and other problems before the crash (popular theory being all the girls had some sort of trauma they were carrying before the crash). Plus sex apparently meant a lot to Jackie since she described it as being "bonded for life" so it's possible she ultimately just wanted to feel something normal. And really Travis was the only dude there, so it was probably just more convenient than anything else.
Really, like a lot of dialogue that should happen the situation of doomcoming should have been addressed properly. But one thing I'm surprised the show never did was have Jeff hallucinate Jackie, because given everything it would be interesting to see how that interaction would go.
I don’t know why we have to babify Jackie.
Like, Jackie just doesn’t really see people outside of herself and absolutely should’ve known and cared how that would affect her supposed friend Natalie.
This doesn’t make her evil. It just makes her a teenager.
It’s okay for Jackie to be flawed.
I think people forget that Jackie was extremely depressed while she was alive in those woods. Her normal selfishness that's typical for a teenage girl probably compounded when she realised they weren't going to get rescued immediately.
Jackie's biggest crime is that she was a teenage girl. Truly. I don't think this is babifying her.
I mean, it’s a horror series that’s exaggerating all of the more or less normal teenage traits they all have.
Jackie’s self centeredness is a part of her regardless of location or trauma and they’re all dealing with that same trauma.
I think framing it as she didn’t really see it as betrayal and she just didn’t really understand is just silliness and is babifying her.
She’s an intelligent character. I’m 100% sure she did in fact understand that sleeping with Jeff would hurt Natalie and if she didn’t then, well, she should have.
This just seems a real disservice of the character.
I think that they were all depressed in those woods
Ya but as is with depression, everyone presents differently. I find Jackie pretty relatable because I turn inwards as well, and was once a teenaged girl who had some social things fly over my head, which resulted in hurting people.
I never said they weren't?
Oh no. I'm not trying to be antagonistic
okay sorry LOL i was trying to be clear
Sorry I wasn't clear. I wasn't babying her, and of course she's flawed. This was just my impression of her character in this particular topic. I didnt mean this as, "therefore it's ok." Just, "this is how I think her mind works". Obviously it's a show and we dont know what's in her mind. Just a small discussion point.
I just don’t understand why anyone (in show or in fandom) acts like Jackie and Nat were friends.
When Nat finds out it was Jackie who revealed her “betrayal” of Travis, she reacts much more like “of course it was you” instead of feeling betrayed by Jackie. Like I’m pretty sure she even has a line to that effect expressing that this is just par for the course for her and Jackie’s relationship.
And as for Jackie, she’s equally if not more judgmental towards Nat. The shit she says to Travis about Nat is straight out of the mean girl playbook, idc who you are.
Jackie and Nat were never friends. Jackie has no reason to care about how it would make Nat feel, nor would Jackie view it as her “betraying” Nat because there’s no relationship there to betray. You can’t betray a person if that person feels no kinship toward you, and from everything we see: Jackie and Nat feel no kinship toward one another.
I think that’s a big reason why Jackie is so aghast at the other girls “calling her out” for “betraying” Nat, particularly when it comes to Shauna. Shauna did actually betray Jackie, because Jackie and Shauna were best friends. Regardless of the animosity at play and the obvious toxicity inherent to their relationship, even Shauna says that she will never have another friend like Jackie and that she doesn’t know where Jackie ends and she begins. Shauna betrayed Jackie. Jackie did not betray Nat. That’s why it is genuinely fucked up that no one stands up for her in that fight with Shauna. Mari actually reinforcing that she should leave just further emphasizes how fucked the whole situation is. It’s honestly some pretty expert foreshadowing for how the group’s entire concept of justice is about to go out the window and lead to what we see later on.
The first moment when the group goes against what anyone would deem true “justice” is that moment with Jackie. Everything following is just gravy.
Team mate would perhaps be a better word, but the sentiment is the same.
I never said the word betrayal, but we all know the hurt that would cause even if we don’t have kinship or like the other person.
The show deals in morality and morality isn’t defined by how much we like the people we hurt and there’s no good reason to take that away from Jackie’s character.
In the fandom there is a fan fiction idea that Nat and Jackie would have a great relationship possibly if they became friends and or lovers in a enemy/rival’s to lovers way witch I personally agree with and I could see people projecting back on to there canon relationship. Also in canon they where on the same team of years they had even possibly been at the same school as each other since elementary school so they very well may have been friends at some point before the crash though that is getting into the area of fanon about exactly what there pre crash relationship’s where like. Especially as we only really see pre crash Jackie interact with shuna one on one and so don’t really have a lot to go on regarding what the relationship’s between Jackie and the rest of the team where like before they crashed.
Didn’t Shauna also kiss Travis after lol this show is hilarious and I love it 😂
i think this show captured teenage drama in a really interesting way! like obviously they grew and hardened over time, but they were still kids. they never lost that pettiness.
Why is losing her V in quotes? It’s what they did with eachother only he was tripping.
Because it's a loaded phrase that I don't typically use myself, but it's how Jackie referred to it, so I used quotes to be as accurate as possible. I see it as "they had sex", but Jackie was very fixated on the "losing virginity" aspect, so I wanted to reflect her mindset.