literally the only good one (apart from maybe european provence and big poland, those 3 are the only ones big enough to actually be top tier maps but pradesh clears the other 2 and its not even close)
imo fulda gap would be a rlly good one if it got reworked, i prefer maps that actually have historical context instead of just being a random plac4
Fulda does have historical context, though? The Fulda Gap was the border between East and West Germany, and would have been where the fighting would start if the Cold War went hot. The red dotted line on the map is the border. When it originally came out, there were parked T-62s on the East German side, and M60s on the West German side. Gaijin removed them at some point because telling an enemy tank from a map item is hard, I guess.
Yeah I think that's what he is saying. Fulda is cool in concept because of its historical context. It just isn't that much fun to play on, unfortunately.
yeah thats what i'm saying, but the annoying thing for me is that we're attacking along the border. it'd be way cooler if we were attacking from one side to the other and if it was more faithful to how it was irl (ie no big ass castle just randomly sitting there)
Pradesh is so cool to play CAS on, like it's the only map I know that has an interesting landscape outside the tank battlefield. The only thing I hate is low clouds, they are so low you can't even safely take off from the helipad or land because it's completely obscured by fog and surrounded by mountains. I heard they moved the lowest clouds up recently, but so far I've only gotten Pradesh once and it was with a clear weather
yeah that asw, i played it once on sim and it was pretty interesting. i wasn't playing cas but if i was i would've had a decent chance of being able to just pop out from behind a cliff and bomb their aa before they could swiss cheese me. only map where cap is probably more important than aa
It would be fine if it weren't for the fact at least 1 spawn is pretty much completely open to being sniped at from across the map on both sides. Gaijin just has no idea how to stop spawn camping, and they've tried almost nothing.
Red Desert? Is that still in rotation? I don't play that much anymore (enlisted has my heart) and I don't like ground all that much, but even so I've not seen Red Desert in gosh, 4 years?
Red desert has shown up for me a couple times back last year at 10.7/11.0, so it's still in the game. Just seems that a ton of people hate it and have it banned/gaijin's map rotation has it reduced significantly
It's probably a great example of how reddit isn't exactly the "mass opinion of the majority", as much as we clamour about big maps, that map is hated by a ton of players for being so large.
Shit man, that map is so hard to play when you don't have a LRF and your foes do.
It's certainly rough when stock, but there are ways to play on it with bad ammo and no rangefinder. Unless you're at top tier, then you may as well not bother. But top tier is a mess anyway.
WDYM "used to"? They still do for most maps, you can see all the BR limits for maps in the menu where you select liked, disliked and banned maps. This particular map is 3.7+
They still do, but the separation is just incredibly bad and dumb. Maps like Mozdok and Port Novorossiysk are still playable even at toptier, while Stalingrad and Kuban are limited to 7.7 max. It just doesn't makes sense.
Also, some maps can get even worse depending on the layout.
Nostalgia glasses with an extreme rose tint, as always. Works the same in World of Tanks, a game that has much more removed maps. People want to be 14 years old again, not get the maps back. Ask anyone that wants X or Y map back (or any kind of content back in something like an MMORPG) and you'll find them lack an answer as to why they want it back. Truth is just pure nostalgia.
WoT has extremely bad map design by default, the maps that were deleted had OBJECTIVELY terrible design in every metric (one side had like a 25% winrate advantage over the other at times, that's genuinely insane) and the few that were reworked and re-added are still genuine pieces of shit.
It was somewhat ok until 6.7, above that it became increasingly bad since people would just start pushing the spawn to camp, ignoring the capture points. This problem still happens to a lot of maps at high and toptier tho.
Wait, do people want to get sniped from a kilometer away by someone invisible at that distance because they're sitting in a treeline that's 3 km long and they're covered in bushes??
I'm convinced the people complaining about being sniped by a hull down tank are the same people driving through open fields and not taking covered routes. Even big Tunisia has places that are completely covered.
BVVD even said in the Q&A on the Youtube channel that the tend to make smaller maps because people (premium pebs) are not able to do nothing for more than 5 seconds, they need constant action: spawn, drive out of spawn, shoot at enemy, get a kill, die, repeat
that is the loop they want to have for the game, you can see it already how they fully eliminate on some versions of the maps the flanking ability (cargoport as example) the game is more and more going closer to CoD which will work for new players but they will loose the old ones
Honestly, toptier is currently dead for me, and if at least a ground only mode or rework on toptier maps doesnt happen this year i'm fearead I might leave the game for good, since Gaijin said they dont want to add more WW2 stuff, and I already have most techtrees grinded. It is just sad the current state of toptier.
ground is probably still the best mode in the game. Air: just kill each other so you will win, any map which was asymetric/different got changed or out of the map pool, Naval: dont really know because i didnt really played it but something in the direction of spawn in a big ship with good guns and armor and snipe into the other spawn while maybe some patrol point get a cap you will never reach, Ground: here you can play 1, 2 or even 3 caps on the map which have very small influence on the outcome of the match.
forgot to mention anything which is not about getting kills will bring you no rewards and teamplay will not be rewarded because in the end it only matters if you got kills or not
At least in air the maps aren't so dogshit that I sometimes just leave after I witness the abomination the matchmaking decided to put me on.
Sure some arb maps are not good, but they are not nearly as influential on the gameplay as GRB maps, which means you can still have a good time on a bad map.
and thats the point, you do exactly the same on any air map with the same objectives, they could put a superflat from minecraft for air in the game and it wouldnt be that much different to now, one could once get into matches like Japan vs Usa or what was on Norwegen, thats why people scream after a ARB EC gamemode, they want to do something else besides only killing each other with no other way to win the match, old bombers and modern attackers suffer so hard they cant do something useful to the team
The problem with big maps is how it absolutely screws you when stock. Especially in the br ranges with stock heat. The fact that I still have to research parts AND an apfsds round in an 11.7 mbt is insane.
Even worse on single cap maps. Since you can't repair and finding a teammate to help is almost non-existent.
The problem with big maps is how it absolutely screws you when stock.
and i agree with you here, that is a problem the devs greated and now dont want to address/fix, all modern tanks should get the advanced rangefinder and weaker darts when they want to stay to there current system without giving the people to much stock, but just because i dont have the necessary things stock i dont want to only get advance to the rhine sized maps
All the maps suck, they're all too small and a pretty significant proportion of them almost seem to be intentionally designed to encourage spawn camping.
Whoever is changing maps at gaijin needs a new job yesterday.
Who the hell has ever played one of the layouts and thought it was a good time?
Every map should be 3 objectives and 2 spawns per team. Period. That's the bear minimum. Most maps at top tier could have 4 or 5 objectives and be about 30 percent larger. And the add another spawnpoint or 2 for each team. Spawns also should not be visible on the map, and should probably do what air rb does where the entire side of the map is a spawn point and player spawn randomly along that line to prevent spawn camping.
But no. Can't have anything that makes the matches too complicated for little retard timmy in his single m1a1 click bait lineup
This is what the toptier maps should be like, and also, return to the old pattern of WT's map, where you have 3 different sections of the map for different playstyles, such as CQC, medium and long range engagements. It would benefit literally everyone (I guess except Gaijin since they actually need to do some work for this to happen and we know how stupidly lazy they are).
Honestly I would kill for a map that was the size of Fields of Poland, except it was just an expansion of the dunes area of El Alamein. It would be so easy for Gaijin to add/make, and would fit top tier much better than the tiny maps
Gaijin used to create maps with 3 different playstyles in the past, such as Maginot Line, where you have urban CQC, medium range engagements and long range engagements. You still can see this pattern on a lot of old maps, but since the "flatfication" and rework of some of these maps (e.g. Fields of Poland and Sands of Sinai), they completely ruined long range and made medium range engagements difficult and not as rewarding.
Right now, imho, Maginot Line might be one of the best and most balanced maps in the game, but since Gaijin likes to ruin everything, they also might rework this map and make it blend and boring to play.
Had max size Tunisia yesterday playing 10.3-11.3 and had people complaining in chat that it was too big. Why bother having thermals and LRFs at high tiers if you’re going to just have point blank engagements.
There is. I've been doing a map review series on my channel, so I'm well aware of what BRs you can get certain maps at. You might not like some of the maps included, and that's fine, but a lot of maps and smaller variants cannot appear at top tier at all.
There needs to be a middle ground for top tier maps. I agree that maps like this are ridiculous for MBT's, but I also do not want matches that are just 2km snipe-fests that are decided by the first guy to get a helicopter/aircraft.
The bigger problem is that we only have one gamemode for tanks, which is 'capture three points'. Tanks IRL are not just used as meatshields to eventually take a point like in WWI, they are dynamic machines meant primarily to provide fire support for troops in a more direct manner than aircraft can. If Gaijin ever decided to do some kind of conquest mode with sides that participated on a large scale for objectives, tanks could be far more interesting than they are now.
There needs to be a middle ground for top tier maps. I agree that maps like this are ridiculous for MBT's, but I also do not want matches that are just 2km snipe-fests that are decided by the first guy to get a helicopter/aircraft.
Exactly. What we need is not just large maps, but properly designed large maps with a lot of hard cover and terrain(as in hills, valleys etc). This way the map isn't a flat-ass snipefest, but there are still a lot of long ranges.
But probably won't happen since this takes actual effort.
If Gaijin ever decided to do some kind of conquest mode with sides that participated on a large scale for objectives, tanks could be far more interesting than they are now.
And even with the current point capturing, they could do dynamically changing points like in Enlisted. Capture a point, then the enemy retreats and you advance. Not perfect, but if done properly I think it would be much better. But this can't be possibly done on the 1x1km maps we have in wt.
Gaijin used to create maps with 3 different playstyles in the past, such as Maginot Line, where you have urban CQC, medium range engagements and long range engagements. You still can see this pattern on a lot of old maps, but since the "flatfication" and rework of some of these maps (e.g. Fields of Poland and Sands of Sinai), they completely ruined long range and made medium range engagements difficult and not as rewarding.
Woh Ash River at 12.7 be upon you!
Red Desert though? You wont see it above 6.7 but once in a blue moon.
i get pradesh about once every month and a half
Its my favorite high tier map but I never get it
literally the only good one (apart from maybe european provence and big poland, those 3 are the only ones big enough to actually be top tier maps but pradesh clears the other 2 and its not even close)
imo fulda gap would be a rlly good one if it got reworked, i prefer maps that actually have historical context instead of just being a random plac4
Fulda does have historical context, though? The Fulda Gap was the border between East and West Germany, and would have been where the fighting would start if the Cold War went hot. The red dotted line on the map is the border. When it originally came out, there were parked T-62s on the East German side, and M60s on the West German side. Gaijin removed them at some point because telling an enemy tank from a map item is hard, I guess.
Yeah I think that's what he is saying. Fulda is cool in concept because of its historical context. It just isn't that much fun to play on, unfortunately.
yeah thats what i'm saying, but the annoying thing for me is that we're attacking along the border. it'd be way cooler if we were attacking from one side to the other and if it was more faithful to how it was irl (ie no big ass castle just randomly sitting there)
design is nice, also to be able to snipe that far but on both sides you are able to snipe into enemy spawn, i miss when you could drive up the hills
Pradesh is so cool to play CAS on, like it's the only map I know that has an interesting landscape outside the tank battlefield. The only thing I hate is low clouds, they are so low you can't even safely take off from the helipad or land because it's completely obscured by fog and surrounded by mountains. I heard they moved the lowest clouds up recently, but so far I've only gotten Pradesh once and it was with a clear weather
yeah that asw, i played it once on sim and it was pretty interesting. i wasn't playing cas but if i was i would've had a decent chance of being able to just pop out from behind a cliff and bomb their aa before they could swiss cheese me. only map where cap is probably more important than aa
We just need smaller team sizes and more side objectives and or ai targets
That way akk the peeps banning the good maps can be under themselves
We used to have AI targets. The game was better for it. I still miss them. Even had cpu controlled SPAA around the playfield back then too.
Banned the shit. Worst fucking map ever.
pradesh is a great mix of open sniping and closer quarter! plus the varied terrain makes for a fun challenge
It would be fine if it weren't for the fact at least 1 spawn is pretty much completely open to being sniped at from across the map on both sides. Gaijin just has no idea how to stop spawn camping, and they've tried almost nothing.
i'm going to poke you in the eye with a very long and pointy stick
Red Desert? Is that still in rotation? I don't play that much anymore (enlisted has my heart) and I don't like ground all that much, but even so I've not seen Red Desert in gosh, 4 years?
Red desert has shown up for me a couple times back last year at 10.7/11.0, so it's still in the game. Just seems that a ton of people hate it and have it banned/gaijin's map rotation has it reduced significantly
It's probably a great example of how reddit isn't exactly the "mass opinion of the majority", as much as we clamour about big maps, that map is hated by a ton of players for being so large.
Shit man, that map is so hard to play when you don't have a LRF and your foes do.
It's certainly rough when stock, but there are ways to play on it with bad ammo and no rangefinder. Unless you're at top tier, then you may as well not bother. But top tier is a mess anyway.
I've gotten it several times in the last few days at 10.7.
Did you say pox? All I heard was pox be upon you. Pox flows from Ass river.
I got Pradesh several times at 7.7, most annoying map ever since I don't have lrf. But the pzh2k mops the floor. I love Pradesh, only at top tier
They used to seperate certain maps by BR, but people whined they missed white rock fortress and that got scrapped
No idea why that map is so popular to be honest, always hated it personally, but for some reason thats the one I remember people asking for
WDYM "used to"? They still do for most maps, you can see all the BR limits for maps in the menu where you select liked, disliked and banned maps. This particular map is 3.7+
the seperation used to be a lot harder, now it’s all over the place
I don't think that's correct.
I’m talking about a long time ago, like when Fulda was first introduced in 2017 kind of long
I vaguely remember a devblog about changes to map rotation based on BR but finding one that old is a pain
They still do, but the separation is just incredibly bad and dumb. Maps like Mozdok and Port Novorossiysk are still playable even at toptier, while Stalingrad and Kuban are limited to 7.7 max. It just doesn't makes sense.
Also, some maps can get even worse depending on the layout.
White rock fortress was unbelievable ass. I can't believe people like it
Nostalgia glasses with an extreme rose tint, as always. Works the same in World of Tanks, a game that has much more removed maps. People want to be 14 years old again, not get the maps back. Ask anyone that wants X or Y map back (or any kind of content back in something like an MMORPG) and you'll find them lack an answer as to why they want it back. Truth is just pure nostalgia.
WoT has extremely bad map design by default, the maps that were deleted had OBJECTIVELY terrible design in every metric (one side had like a 25% winrate advantage over the other at times, that's genuinely insane) and the few that were reworked and re-added are still genuine pieces of shit.
It was somewhat ok until 6.7, above that it became increasingly bad since people would just start pushing the spawn to camp, ignoring the capture points. This problem still happens to a lot of maps at high and toptier tho.
Wait, do people want to get sniped from a kilometer away by someone invisible at that distance because they're sitting in a treeline that's 3 km long and they're covered in bushes??
Is that the only possible alternative to maps where you can drive for 20 seconds and already be shooting into the enemy spawn?
Or you can have both and get here regularly glazed Pradesh
No, those guys want to do the sniping.
Yeah. I want to maximize the amount of suffering by only dying to a hull down tank three kilometers away.
"Laser Warning"
Yes
I'm convinced the people complaining about being sniped by a hull down tank are the same people driving through open fields and not taking covered routes. Even big Tunisia has places that are completely covered.
BVVD even said in the Q&A on the Youtube channel that the tend to make smaller maps because people (premium pebs) are not able to do nothing for more than 5 seconds, they need constant action: spawn, drive out of spawn, shoot at enemy, get a kill, die, repeat that is the loop they want to have for the game, you can see it already how they fully eliminate on some versions of the maps the flanking ability (cargoport as example) the game is more and more going closer to CoD which will work for new players but they will loose the old ones
Honestly, toptier is currently dead for me, and if at least a ground only mode or rework on toptier maps doesnt happen this year i'm fearead I might leave the game for good, since Gaijin said they dont want to add more WW2 stuff, and I already have most techtrees grinded. It is just sad the current state of toptier.
ground is probably still the best mode in the game. Air: just kill each other so you will win, any map which was asymetric/different got changed or out of the map pool, Naval: dont really know because i didnt really played it but something in the direction of spawn in a big ship with good guns and armor and snipe into the other spawn while maybe some patrol point get a cap you will never reach, Ground: here you can play 1, 2 or even 3 caps on the map which have very small influence on the outcome of the match. forgot to mention anything which is not about getting kills will bring you no rewards and teamplay will not be rewarded because in the end it only matters if you got kills or not
At least in air the maps aren't so dogshit that I sometimes just leave after I witness the abomination the matchmaking decided to put me on.
Sure some arb maps are not good, but they are not nearly as influential on the gameplay as GRB maps, which means you can still have a good time on a bad map.
and thats the point, you do exactly the same on any air map with the same objectives, they could put a superflat from minecraft for air in the game and it wouldnt be that much different to now, one could once get into matches like Japan vs Usa or what was on Norwegen, thats why people scream after a ARB EC gamemode, they want to do something else besides only killing each other with no other way to win the match, old bombers and modern attackers suffer so hard they cant do something useful to the team
The problem with big maps is how it absolutely screws you when stock. Especially in the br ranges with stock heat. The fact that I still have to research parts AND an apfsds round in an 11.7 mbt is insane.
Even worse on single cap maps. Since you can't repair and finding a teammate to help is almost non-existent.
and i agree with you here, that is a problem the devs greated and now dont want to address/fix, all modern tanks should get the advanced rangefinder and weaker darts when they want to stay to there current system without giving the people to much stock, but just because i dont have the necessary things stock i dont want to only get advance to the rhine sized maps
i love this map at top tier gfy
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All the maps suck, they're all too small and a pretty significant proportion of them almost seem to be intentionally designed to encourage spawn camping.
Idk, i don’t think this map is too bad
The gamemode (single cap) isn’t great, but it could be worse
It’s the only map with aircraft carriers. I like it.
Love playing these maps with the Swedish tech tree, currently im rank 6 and their paper maché armour really shines on these reserve tier maps.
Whoever is changing maps at gaijin needs a new job yesterday.
Who the hell has ever played one of the layouts and thought it was a good time?
Every map should be 3 objectives and 2 spawns per team. Period. That's the bear minimum. Most maps at top tier could have 4 or 5 objectives and be about 30 percent larger. And the add another spawnpoint or 2 for each team. Spawns also should not be visible on the map, and should probably do what air rb does where the entire side of the map is a spawn point and player spawn randomly along that line to prevent spawn camping.
But no. Can't have anything that makes the matches too complicated for little retard timmy in his single m1a1 click bait lineup
This is what the toptier maps should be like, and also, return to the old pattern of WT's map, where you have 3 different sections of the map for different playstyles, such as CQC, medium and long range engagements. It would benefit literally everyone (I guess except Gaijin since they actually need to do some work for this to happen and we know how stupidly lazy they are).
I dont, which is why i usually just leave back to hangar
I agree 100%. Although Gaijin doesn’t care.
What lang mod are u using?
IFN1, made by InFerNos1. You can easily find on WT Live.
Honestly I would kill for a map that was the size of Fields of Poland, except it was just an expansion of the dunes area of El Alamein. It would be so easy for Gaijin to add/make, and would fit top tier much better than the tiny maps
Gaijin used to create maps with 3 different playstyles in the past, such as Maginot Line, where you have urban CQC, medium range engagements and long range engagements. You still can see this pattern on a lot of old maps, but since the "flatfication" and rework of some of these maps (e.g. Fields of Poland and Sands of Sinai), they completely ruined long range and made medium range engagements difficult and not as rewarding.
Right now, imho, Maginot Line might be one of the best and most balanced maps in the game, but since Gaijin likes to ruin everything, they also might rework this map and make it blend and boring to play.
I fear the day maginot line becomes gm_flat.
Had max size Tunisia yesterday playing 10.3-11.3 and had people complaining in chat that it was too big. Why bother having thermals and LRFs at high tiers if you’re going to just have point blank engagements.
There is. I've been doing a map review series on my channel, so I'm well aware of what BRs you can get certain maps at. You might not like some of the maps included, and that's fine, but a lot of maps and smaller variants cannot appear at top tier at all.
Speak for yourself, this map is great
You want to play MBT's?
~500m engagements, take it or leave it
500 meters? What sort of long range snipefest are you playing? In War Thunder we only get <200 meter shots.
Don't you know that this is what the playerbase wants?
aka low level premium players
There needs to be a middle ground for top tier maps. I agree that maps like this are ridiculous for MBT's, but I also do not want matches that are just 2km snipe-fests that are decided by the first guy to get a helicopter/aircraft.
The bigger problem is that we only have one gamemode for tanks, which is 'capture three points'. Tanks IRL are not just used as meatshields to eventually take a point like in WWI, they are dynamic machines meant primarily to provide fire support for troops in a more direct manner than aircraft can. If Gaijin ever decided to do some kind of conquest mode with sides that participated on a large scale for objectives, tanks could be far more interesting than they are now.
Exactly. What we need is not just large maps, but properly designed large maps with a lot of hard cover and terrain(as in hills, valleys etc). This way the map isn't a flat-ass snipefest, but there are still a lot of long ranges.
But probably won't happen since this takes actual effort.
And even with the current point capturing, they could do dynamically changing points like in Enlisted. Capture a point, then the enemy retreats and you advance. Not perfect, but if done properly I think it would be much better. But this can't be possibly done on the 1x1km maps we have in wt.
Gaijin used to create maps with 3 different playstyles in the past, such as Maginot Line, where you have urban CQC, medium range engagements and long range engagements. You still can see this pattern on a lot of old maps, but since the "flatfication" and rework of some of these maps (e.g. Fields of Poland and Sands of Sinai), they completely ruined long range and made medium range engagements difficult and not as rewarding.
Smaller maps at top tier are way more fun and engaging