rather than weighting positives vs negatives, at this point i'm just choosing whichever option is less likely to brick the run entirely via a side effect/bug.
Honestly I wish the "blessings" were able to be opt-out. It's not worth taking a buff when it potentially makes frames unable to even function. Or outright break the run...
How about a choice between blessings and debuffs we can call curses, with blessings being buffs and nothing else and curses boosting loot rates but being a debuff (obviously).
Eh... i'd just rather not fuck with it at all. If it is half baked and causes issues where it can potentially brick a run then that means it needs more time in the oven, not new stuff thrown at the wall to see what sticks
I'd actually love to spice things up with a "hey, wouldn't it be funny if you had a dragon-key like effect that marginally boosted your loot?" Disruption and a lot of ExA effects are really good for that little variety. While things like It Sees You and Optimism Peely Pics do too, since they're always the same, it feels a bit less tactical since you're always running the same three stickers.
Mmm, every time i tried that it would just scream at me until I took the "buff". There again, I also didnt push the issue and try to wait for like a minute either as felt a bit dick-ish to hold up everyone else
My girlfriend and I actually found out that you can still bypass them after it screams at you!
We weren't interested in some buffs from Marie that didn't help either of our builds, so we just waited on the descent platform for about a minute or so and then we were allowed to bypass the buffs entirely.
Unfortunately it won't let you bypass unless everyone is on the platform with you.
This did not work when my friend tried it one week. He thought both options were bad so he just went back to the platform when me and the other player had already picked ours. We couldn't move on until he went back and chose one
i have yet to get a "blessing" from Lyon that actually feels worthwhile for me, its mostly that the benefit and negative are both extremely whatever to me, or the negative is straight up worse than the positiv for my current loadout
You can. You don’t have to take one. The floor will go down no matter what. It just make other people wait longer. I skip them sometimes. I found out when my controller died and I used an old controller with which I couldn’t talk to them. I skipped it and kept going with the group.
DE is practically incapable of making modes like this that isn't riddled with bricking run bugs. Duviri has been out for so long and every other run bricks for completely different reasons.
Having a lot of fun with my return to this game until these things happen. Duviri is one of the buggiest experiences I've had in all of gaming though.
My most common one is CTD on entering Undercroft. Never figured put why it happens, but if it DOES happen, no amount of restarting or rebooting will fix it. I don't know if today will be One of Those Days until AFTER I've queued for Steel Circuit and equipped my items, forcing everybody else to migrate. I own like... three incarnons..?
But the most frustrating one is the loss of control. Paragrim tome puzzle locks all your controls. Pushing an Enigma objective locks all controls. Randomly losing your ability to attack or shoot.
One of my weirder ones was getting my wf secondary out on duviri. It ran out of ammo almost immediately. No Thrax ever drops ammo pickups, and even after an Undercroft visit I never got my Siricco back, so I had to end the run because I couldn't do the next bounty stage without a gun.
I ended up buying my first Kullervo, not because he would've been hard to farm as intended, but because you ONLY get his currency if you can FINISH THE RUN, which I rarely could.
I can give you a couple from just yesterday. My run bugged out on a steel path where the undercroft portal just never spawned and blocked all four of us from continuing. Another one occurred in the next run where I was locked out of interacting with the game at all, even being unable to close the game because the menu wouldn't open, because my squad pulled me while I was doing the overhead falcon activity where you hunt for tomes. Couldn't even type to tell them I wasn't afk, but we were basically at the end so I didn't want to leave by shutting off my console off an hour plus run. I've also had a similar game ending bug occur both to me and teammates where upon entering the feed the maw activity, it would spawn the maw out of the water in the above world and lock you into the activity with the timer not kicking you out.
It was really annoying because I needed the end clear mats more than anything else that day, so having multiple runs self delete was frustrating.
It does kind of fit the "deal with a devil" idea to be forced to choose between two bad options. However, thematically it's a bit weird that these are meant to be blessing and are coming from Lyon and Marie, when half the time they don't seem like blessings at all and are actively detrimental.
Using that blessing would make the legacyte impossible to capture and softlock you in the decendia. DE removed that encounter and replaced it with another because it couldn't be quickly patched.
Seconded. I imagine it happens on any exalted with ammo. Ivara might get away with her bow cuz they don’t really have magazine size and draw directly from reserves, but I’m just speculating
I'm personally gonna guess it'll break any exalted gun other than Cyte's, since his has completely normal magazine/reload mechanics aside from the infinite reserve ammo. (should be about the same as the Basmu?)
Also... are the buffs frame-dependent or something? I've only used Dante and Hildryn in Descendia so far and have only ever seen two options at each checkpoint. One of them is a "deal more damage this way, but also take more damage this way" one so I've been picking that because tank frames, but it'd be nice to see the rest.
Yes, hence mentioning the Vectis; it actually doesn't have a fire rate stat on its first shot but is intrinsically throttled by reload speed if you reduce its magazine to 1. With Fractalized Reset + Arcane Momentum + Depleted Reload it is entirely possible to fire off 10+ shots per second. Now if you further buff it with reload related buffs such as Chroma's Toxin Ward, Volt's Speed, or Gauss's Redline you can go even further and make it ridiculous.
There is also somewhat of a commentary on abusing this with the Epitaph (due to its uncharged shot being AoE in nature) or traditional bows (by abusing the Split Flights mod to drastically raise multishot and have a higher chance of triggering this) as both things pull directly from the reserve and dont have a magazine to "expend" as it were. Same would technically be true of the Tonkor and other AoE vomits that can be abused with how this decree actually works
Lol, I like taking things and breaking them down to how they work in order to re-build back up with the explicit purpose of breaking them. Vectis Prime is low-key the best sniper rifle for single target output because of its whole bolt-action reload gimmick but it is extremely unintuitive to build
If you haven't already, I'd try any sniper with the sharpshooter mod & primary overcharge on Ivara (or any frame that can have a high max energy). It lets you maintain the overcharge buff as long as your can hit headshots. It works really well on the Vectis & perigale.
The Sporothrix (and its Coda variant) is remarkably powerful as a horde shooter sniper with its Volatile Variant augment.
The Vadarya Prime is also remarkably powerful for the same reason of it innately having the ability to cleave via the lightning propagation.
But, the Vectis Prime is currently available to farm; Ash Prime is currently in Varzia's Resurgence and is part of his original prime release. So I'd heavily recommend grouping up with relic shares to farm it if you want to grab a hold of it while it is easily available
My riven is a heat, critical damage, multishot, -slash roll (Eidolon roll that I re-use for general gameplay). You can easily sub the riven for any elemental modding just for frontloaded damage purposes.
The key though is simply reload speed which we are sourcing via Depleted Reload, Fractalized Reset and Arcane Momentum
With a negative magazine riven you could potentially get higher dps/damage
Vectos prime can roll +46 reload speed, and -37.1% mag size, which I believe would reduce the mag size to 1, with basically the same reload speed reduction(though you would likely be capped on the reload speed anyways).
That frees up a mod slot, and gives you 2 positive riven traits to use(crit damage, with either Crit chance or multi shot)
In theorem yes, I just gave up trying after fighting with it for over 3000 rolls lol. That said, the reload speed is negligible at that point, only thing that would be making the roll actively better is -mag as you are suggesting as it frees an entire mod slot
I wish other single shot weapons worked like the vectis, the delay between firing and reloading the exergis feels so clunky. I know you can skip it by manually reloading but that still feels clunky af
as a yareli enthusiast, playing her (especially with merulina) in a new update is a straight up debuff ... I hated the bugged arsenal in hollvania that only got fixed in techrot encore 😭
I haven't done descendia with her yet, mind giving me a warning for which ones don't work well with her?
It is such a bad perk to take, i mean, it is a d20, if you played rpgs before you should instantly fear a 5% brick chance
Any gun that takes less than a whole magazine to kill an enemy is instantly worst for taking it, not only you will end up with less ammo, triggering a reload so often will slow you down and tank your dps
This is a sniper perk, it works wonderfully with vectis, but anything with a bigger magazine is just bad for using it.
I thought exalted weapons would be a way to circumvent the downsides, but i am find it funny and fitting it isn't. I wonder if bows have an issue with it.
Use an incarnon with a large magazine. You'll still get the effect, and the weapon won't revert, so you can just keep instakilling things lol. It's a bit of a chore to build up charge afterwards though.
It empties the magazine instantly, so you'll have to wait for the recharge or automatic reload if you can't force it by manually reloading.
Weapons that "don't" have a magazine often just have a large magazine that bypasses reserve entirely, so they'll instantly run out of ammo and need you to find more.
Both are, essentially, the intended behaviour for the effect.
It only breaks on weapons that aren't meant to have ammo count at all.
I love how this implied that jade's weapons actually don't have infinite ammo, just a huge amount and since she doesn't have any reload or pickup mechanic the weapon just get stuck with no ammo.
Does this mean that if you play long enough in her angelic form you can run out of ammo?
For everyone complaining that lyons buffs are garbage cause of the debuffs, yeah your right but you all seem to forget he's harrows protoframe, the frame that suffered and was a martyr. Ofc The stuff he gives us is going to "inflict pain and suffering" on us 😭 i feel like thats the whole point, take the pain you can deal with so he doesnt have the burden of it anymore
Honestly I haven't been using her four that much these days as I use her with the Vadarya which is too much absolutely crazy fun. I only use the four now if I
Know some annoying toxin eximus is around, the team is beefed to the point I can take a very passive back seat and just cast, or I need to gaze a big swath of people or revive.
Idk why this but tonight I’ve been getting my abilities canceled left and right. 2-3 floors straight like I’m stuck inside a disabler bubble. All my abilities blocked out, none of my arcanes activating,doing like 35% of the damage I usually do lol. Dying doesn’t fix it.
And this has ONLY been happening tonight, and only since I started farming floor 14-21z . It was fine yesterday. It seems fine when I start from floor 1.
rather than weighting positives vs negatives, at this point i'm just choosing whichever option is less likely to brick the run entirely via a side effect/bug.
Honestly I wish the "blessings" were able to be opt-out. It's not worth taking a buff when it potentially makes frames unable to even function. Or outright break the run...
How about a choice between blessings and debuffs we can call curses, with blessings being buffs and nothing else and curses boosting loot rates but being a debuff (obviously).
Eh... i'd just rather not fuck with it at all. If it is half baked and causes issues where it can potentially brick a run then that means it needs more time in the oven, not new stuff thrown at the wall to see what sticks
I'd actually love to spice things up with a "hey, wouldn't it be funny if you had a dragon-key like effect that marginally boosted your loot?" Disruption and a lot of ExA effects are really good for that little variety. While things like It Sees You and Optimism Peely Pics do too, since they're always the same, it feels a bit less tactical since you're always running the same three stickers.
I mean, they kinda are in coop, you can just wait and the descent continues.
my friend tried that and it picked a buff for him
Mmm, every time i tried that it would just scream at me until I took the "buff". There again, I also didnt push the issue and try to wait for like a minute either as felt a bit dick-ish to hold up everyone else
I think at least one has to bite the bullet and take one, then get in the platform and wait.
My girlfriend and I actually found out that you can still bypass them after it screams at you!
We weren't interested in some buffs from Marie that didn't help either of our builds, so we just waited on the descent platform for about a minute or so and then we were allowed to bypass the buffs entirely.
Unfortunately it won't let you bypass unless everyone is on the platform with you.
yea when it tried it the platform wouldn't break until i picked on up
It always gave me the first option if I tried that
This did not work when my friend tried it one week. He thought both options were bad so he just went back to the platform when me and the other player had already picked ours. We couldn't move on until he went back and chose one
i have yet to get a "blessing" from Lyon that actually feels worthwhile for me, its mostly that the benefit and negative are both extremely whatever to me, or the negative is straight up worse than the positiv for my current loadout
The first blessing (given by Marie) is always a bonus, but the second one (given by Lyon) always comes with a caveat, which I’m assuming is the point.
You can. You don’t have to take one. The floor will go down no matter what. It just make other people wait longer. I skip them sometimes. I found out when my controller died and I used an old controller with which I couldn’t talk to them. I skipped it and kept going with the group.
I had a run bricked where a capture target was killed and therefore unable to be captured, wonder if it was related to this perk.
It's exactly that. The target gets instakilled and you can't capture it.
DE is practically incapable of making modes like this that isn't riddled with bricking run bugs. Duviri has been out for so long and every other run bricks for completely different reasons.
Having a lot of fun with my return to this game until these things happen. Duviri is one of the buggiest experiences I've had in all of gaming though.
Examples? I can't remember the last time I've had any such issues and I run Duviri a few times a week.
My most common one is CTD on entering Undercroft. Never figured put why it happens, but if it DOES happen, no amount of restarting or rebooting will fix it. I don't know if today will be One of Those Days until AFTER I've queued for Steel Circuit and equipped my items, forcing everybody else to migrate. I own like... three incarnons..?
But the most frustrating one is the loss of control. Paragrim tome puzzle locks all your controls. Pushing an Enigma objective locks all controls. Randomly losing your ability to attack or shoot.
One of my weirder ones was getting my wf secondary out on duviri. It ran out of ammo almost immediately. No Thrax ever drops ammo pickups, and even after an Undercroft visit I never got my Siricco back, so I had to end the run because I couldn't do the next bounty stage without a gun.
I ended up buying my first Kullervo, not because he would've been hard to farm as intended, but because you ONLY get his currency if you can FINISH THE RUN, which I rarely could.
I can give you a couple from just yesterday. My run bugged out on a steel path where the undercroft portal just never spawned and blocked all four of us from continuing. Another one occurred in the next run where I was locked out of interacting with the game at all, even being unable to close the game because the menu wouldn't open, because my squad pulled me while I was doing the overhead falcon activity where you hunt for tomes. Couldn't even type to tell them I wasn't afk, but we were basically at the end so I didn't want to leave by shutting off my console off an hour plus run. I've also had a similar game ending bug occur both to me and teammates where upon entering the feed the maw activity, it would spawn the maw out of the water in the above world and lock you into the activity with the timer not kicking you out.
It was really annoying because I needed the end clear mats more than anything else that day, so having multiple runs self delete was frustrating.
Well, shit. Thanks for answering. No idea why you keep running into these bugs and I'm not though. Now I'm curious.
It does kind of fit the "deal with a devil" idea to be forced to choose between two bad options. However, thematically it's a bit weird that these are meant to be blessing and are coming from Lyon and Marie, when half the time they don't seem like blessings at all and are actively detrimental.
Me over here forxing the squad to wait cuz I refuse to pick up a buff
this decree has to be the most buggiest shit, this thing got the legacyte killed
HUH
Using that blessing would make the legacyte impossible to capture and softlock you in the decendia. DE removed that encounter and replaced it with another because it couldn't be quickly patched.
oh my god lmao
Also don’t take on mesa. I did and then got a kill with my 4 but even when I reused it I couldn’t shoot anymore as it was disabled
I instantly thought it would be broken on Mesa, turns out it is truly broken on Mesa.
Seconded. I imagine it happens on any exalted with ammo. Ivara might get away with her bow cuz they don’t really have magazine size and draw directly from reserves, but I’m just speculating
I'm personally gonna guess it'll break any exalted gun other than Cyte's, since his has completely normal magazine/reload mechanics aside from the infinite reserve ammo. (should be about the same as the Basmu?)
Also... are the buffs frame-dependent or something? I've only used Dante and Hildryn in Descendia so far and have only ever seen two options at each checkpoint. One of them is a "deal more damage this way, but also take more damage this way" one so I've been picking that because tank frames, but it'd be nice to see the rest.
Meanwhile, the based Vectis Prime enjoyer
Couldn't you build into this with a high fire rate, high multishot, fast reload weapon? The damage output shouldn't matter right?
Yes, hence mentioning the Vectis; it actually doesn't have a fire rate stat on its first shot but is intrinsically throttled by reload speed if you reduce its magazine to 1. With Fractalized Reset + Arcane Momentum + Depleted Reload it is entirely possible to fire off 10+ shots per second. Now if you further buff it with reload related buffs such as Chroma's Toxin Ward, Volt's Speed, or Gauss's Redline you can go even further and make it ridiculous.
There is also somewhat of a commentary on abusing this with the Epitaph (due to its uncharged shot being AoE in nature) or traditional bows (by abusing the Split Flights mod to drastically raise multishot and have a higher chance of triggering this) as both things pull directly from the reserve and dont have a magazine to "expend" as it were. Same would technically be true of the Tonkor and other AoE vomits that can be abused with how this decree actually works
Holy tech lol.
Lol, I like taking things and breaking them down to how they work in order to re-build back up with the explicit purpose of breaking them. Vectis Prime is low-key the best sniper rifle for single target output because of its whole bolt-action reload gimmick but it is extremely unintuitive to build
Don’t forget primed chamber to take advantage of the single round
If you haven't already, I'd try any sniper with the sharpshooter mod & primary overcharge on Ivara (or any frame that can have a high max energy). It lets you maintain the overcharge buff as long as your can hit headshots. It works really well on the Vectis & perigale.
Meanwhile I still have to actually get my hands on one lol I love snipers in games so much but never use them here because horde shooter things.
Any tricks to make it still more viable as an option? Especially cuz I play solo too so.
The Sporothrix (and its Coda variant) is remarkably powerful as a horde shooter sniper with its Volatile Variant augment.
The Vadarya Prime is also remarkably powerful for the same reason of it innately having the ability to cleave via the lightning propagation.
But, the Vectis Prime is currently available to farm; Ash Prime is currently in Varzia's Resurgence and is part of his original prime release. So I'd heavily recommend grouping up with relic shares to farm it if you want to grab a hold of it while it is easily available
I NEED to try this now lol
Would you be willing to share your build?
What i typically run for general single target nuking on the Vectis is
Semi-Rifle Cannonade, Galvanized Chamber, Depleted Reload, Primed Chamber, Critical Delay, Vital Sense, Target Acquired, Riven, Fractalized Reset.
My riven is a heat, critical damage, multishot, -slash roll (Eidolon roll that I re-use for general gameplay). You can easily sub the riven for any elemental modding just for frontloaded damage purposes.
The key though is simply reload speed which we are sourcing via Depleted Reload, Fractalized Reset and Arcane Momentum
Hell yeah! Thank you for sharing!!!
My friends and I get an absolute kick out of crazy builds and I'm super excited to try this out :)
With a negative magazine riven you could potentially get higher dps/damage
Vectos prime can roll +46 reload speed, and -37.1% mag size, which I believe would reduce the mag size to 1, with basically the same reload speed reduction(though you would likely be capped on the reload speed anyways).
That frees up a mod slot, and gives you 2 positive riven traits to use(crit damage, with either Crit chance or multi shot)
In theorem yes, I just gave up trying after fighting with it for over 3000 rolls lol. That said, the reload speed is negligible at that point, only thing that would be making the roll actively better is -mag as you are suggesting as it frees an entire mod slot
i got this buff, then swapped to epitaph rest of the run. it wrecked shit hard. was nice.
I wish other single shot weapons worked like the vectis, the delay between firing and reloading the exergis feels so clunky. I know you can skip it by manually reloading but that still feels clunky af
I wonder if it would still work when using a -100% damage riven.
300 rounds per second grakata on ammo efficiency gauss incoming
phantasma enjoyers wya?
Too busy winning the game probably 😂
Meanwhile, if your Xaku, take this 10,000% because his stolen guns count but don't have ammo so there's literally no draw back
My Xaku got the helminth invigoration for ability strength this week, I guess that's who I'll be bringing to Descendia
I got mine for xaku too, but mine is 100% duration and 75% parcour velocity lol
Playing yareli with merulina makes a lot of the decrees straight up debuffs no matter what
as a yareli enthusiast, playing her (especially with merulina) in a new update is a straight up debuff ... I hated the bugged arsenal in hollvania that only got fixed in techrot encore 😭
I haven't done descendia with her yet, mind giving me a warning for which ones don't work well with her?
wouldn't know how bad it is, Roathe asked me not to do descendia any more and i listen to what my friends want
Really? He's been absolutely on my ass to get it done, so I just rushed that last 10 or so I needed.
He told me not to bother since I haven't got down to him yet and I agree
It is such a bad perk to take, i mean, it is a d20, if you played rpgs before you should instantly fear a 5% brick chance
Any gun that takes less than a whole magazine to kill an enemy is instantly worst for taking it, not only you will end up with less ammo, triggering a reload so often will slow you down and tank your dps
This is a sniper perk, it works wonderfully with vectis, but anything with a bigger magazine is just bad for using it.
I thought exalted weapons would be a way to circumvent the downsides, but i am find it funny and fitting it isn't. I wonder if bows have an issue with it.
I picked this on my soma incarnon... spent the next 7 layers reloading..
Redid descendia with a basmu and enjoyed the free lifeleech reloads with +reloads speed ;)
Well that sounds absolutely not worth it.
I already kill my enemies with ease.
This just wastes all of my ammo.
Tbh, Lyon's blessings should be called Lyon's curses.
(Laughs in Tenet Cycron and decent Sampotes Build)
Use an incarnon with a large magazine. You'll still get the effect, and the weapon won't revert, so you can just keep instakilling things lol. It's a bit of a chore to build up charge afterwards though.
Does it brick all inifinte ammo exalteds? Is my owl scribe boi at risk?
Yes, it bricks all gun exalteds as far as i am aware
Tried this with my Mesa. Even after recasting I couldn't fire anything
we're beta testers lmao
I find that anything with an instant kill chance is likely to break the run. Not worth it IMO.
😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’d be so pissed
Does it work differently with a weapon like fulmin that recharges/reloads automatically?
It empties the magazine instantly, so you'll have to wait for the recharge or automatic reload if you can't force it by manually reloading.
Weapons that "don't" have a magazine often just have a large magazine that bypasses reserve entirely, so they'll instantly run out of ammo and need you to find more.
Both are, essentially, the intended behaviour for the effect.
It only breaks on weapons that aren't meant to have ammo count at all.
Probably going to affect a few other weapons as well. I'd report it as a bug on the forums.
I love how this implied that jade's weapons actually don't have infinite ammo, just a huge amount and since she doesn't have any reload or pickup mechanic the weapon just get stuck with no ammo.
Does this mean that if you play long enough in her angelic form you can run out of ammo?
That’s what I thought about too. It may be set to some astronomically large number that would take days to get through
I think my game is bugged. Ive had the same choices from launch and ive never gotten any different ones
On one hand that’s hilarious 💀 On the other hand I’m sorry
For everyone complaining that lyons buffs are garbage cause of the debuffs, yeah your right but you all seem to forget he's harrows protoframe, the frame that suffered and was a martyr. Ofc The stuff he gives us is going to "inflict pain and suffering" on us 😭 i feel like thats the whole point, take the pain you can deal with so he doesnt have the burden of it anymore
It can also lock you when there is a Legacyte Harvest stage. Killing the Legacyte before you can harvest it means you can't finish the challenge.
I have always got the same 4 blessings every single run, whyyyy
Isn’t this basically never optimal though? Outside of like the Vectis and bows?
Honestly I haven't been using her four that much these days as I use her with the Vadarya which is too much absolutely crazy fun. I only use the four now if I
Know some annoying toxin eximus is around, the team is beefed to the point I can take a very passive back seat and just cast, or I need to gaze a big swath of people or revive.
Yeah cuz an ammo dump for insta kill which im practically already doing sounds worth it
https://preview.redd.it/kw0xjwh0w8ag1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=0def8db84ffbcc541708e0a5325ef94c36f4b8da
Took that with my Twin Grakatas, I was cumming
Damn double backshots
One in the front, one in the back
Is it just me, or do Lyon’s “blessings” range from extremely annoying to outright frame ruining?
Idk why this but tonight I’ve been getting my abilities canceled left and right. 2-3 floors straight like I’m stuck inside a disabler bubble. All my abilities blocked out, none of my arcanes activating,doing like 35% of the damage I usually do lol. Dying doesn’t fix it.
And this has ONLY been happening tonight, and only since I started farming floor 14-21z . It was fine yesterday. It seems fine when I start from floor 1.