With the devs being set that Vendetta is overtuned, is it in damage numbers or in cooldowns? Is she just overtuned or could she be considered OP to players that cannot react fast enough? What do you think will be changed come mid-season?
I swear, between Bastion getting buff creeped into a strong spot rn and Cass and Ashe still being heavily viable, we're looking at yet another hitscan season, not to mention the small but constant nerfs to Reaper and Venture that are bringing them into one bad overnerf and suddenly they become unplayable.
I like them nerfing venture though I’ll be honest. By far the easiest dive character let alone dps. But they need to leave reaper alone the last nerf wasn’t needed.
i just hope they don’t make her unplayble, and keep her as agressive as she already is, her damages on main attacks are like 45 (without 3rd hit) its the damages of a quick melee so nerfing her dmg again will be a bit too much
i don’t like how ppl just gaslight everyone even the devs that she was broken
The argument was that if she wasn’t banned in comp and played instead she had a 60% win rate. I still think balancing off of win rates is dumb but that’s the way they do it.
Their win rates aren't 59 percent. How can you compare 51 percent and 53 percent to 59 percent? You are just making my point. You are not saying she isn't broken, but you also say people are gaslighting the devs into thinking she is broken. Which one is it? The devs consistently overtune heroes on release. Do you just not want her nerfed in any way?
I'm saying that win rates don't tell the full story and if you're trying to convince a subreddit full of people that main her and are biased, you should use more evidence than 'win rates high'
A 59 percent win rate with a high pick rate is enough evidence. If anyone says that is not enough just don't want her nerfed. Can you play devil's advocate for me and justify a character with a bonkers winrate with a high pick rate. Explain to me a situation where that hero would not be overturned.
Very controversial opinion from someone who bounces between mid daimond and masters but:
I think shes okay AT BEST.
Where im at 90% of the roster counters her in some way. Either through mobility or outdamaging her. She is very easy to kill and has no health for what her kit demands. She really needs Ventures shield passive imo. Also no she's not a dive character. She's a brawler.
But that being said I can see how people Plat and under are terrified of her.
Also no she's not a dive character. She's a brawler.
She does both. The brawler playstyle just sucks at high ranks unless you have a Zarya, and even then it's still exploitable. You cannot play her this way into competent players, therefore you have to dive and she is actually pretty good in coordinated dives.
I'm actually at high diamond - low masters myself and I can confidently say games with her goes one of two ways, and it really just depends on which team is more aggressive. That's probably the biggest issue that Vendetta exacerbates. She is probably the perfect dive partner but one of the worst initiators. If she has someone to do chip or take aggro before she goes in, she can easily run through teams that can't decide on which target is best, but without someone to do that - her playstyle is so heavily altered that its more feasible to swap. For example, if she gets paired with a passive brawl team into a poke comp, her downtime is too high to justify.
Best case scenario would probably be to rework her passive to include shield gens but lower her damage; thus making her a better initiator but worse at solo kill confirms.
the issue is she forces the counter, if she is allowed to run free then her overtuned numbers allow her to run the lobby, simply having counters isnt balance, its just a mess where depending on the game she is over or under powered, which makes here badly balanced in every game
She's strong and fast but her aim can be hard to keep under control since she has to be attacking and defending from all angles (including air) without missing so the attack speed buildup don't drop.
I wonder if the nerfs are more about sound design and making people notice her better (please, don't make her as noticeable as reaper because she can'tjust tuen into fart and leave) instead of just nuking Loba with nerfs and asking the players to adjust to her all over again.
If I could ask for somethings it would be a better 3rd person perspective while blocking or even attacking (like Rein has) to keep tabs all around and a much faster escape tool kinda lije Genji when disengaging if they are coming with the nerfs.
Hm... there are a couple of ways. You either start slowly increasing her cooldowns but I don't think thats gonna fix her issue, most of the time you kinda sit on them and wait for an opportunity. Hitting her health would also be terrible since she is already squishy. Tbh... you might wanna hit her attack speed buff on her passive. Vendetta becomes insane once you have all stacks, its hard to get all of them but once you do you usually get a team wipe. Or... you do tone down her damage on the overhead a tiny bit (like-10) and make it so she isn't a straight up duelist anymore. You kill things, with you team, and only your team. Last option would be to increase the resource drain on block and make it something a bit more omnipotent. So like... a genji deflect without throwing back the damage, still taking some but its a one time "parry" like...you can block for half a second on a 2 or 3 second cooldown but it blocks sleeps and other stuff like that as well. It would increase the skillfloor for her by a fuckton while also making it something extremely rewarding to time.
Might be an odd take, but I'd argue she isn't a duelist in the normal sense currently. In dps and supports duels if she doesnt get her overhead first, she goes down pretty quickly (effectively making her an assassin), but its ironically in tank duels that she is a good duelist. Between overhead jumps displacing her significantly around tanks and Soaring being cancellable into the ground, you can body wrap tanks so strongly she can hold her own in those 1v1s.
Id argue engaging with overhead is usually pretty bad anyway cuz of the ending lag (and you need to use the other ability to get out most of the time) but yes, she is an insane tank duelist. Hm... now that I think about it, overhead counts as a crit right? Does the damage to tanks get nerfed? Cuz it specifies headshots and that might be the reason it feels so strong...
I love her, I loved playing Magik in Rivals and I would joke about them adding Magik to the game once I dropped Rivals and picked up OW again. But I think people who say she isn't broken are a little delulu respectfully when in reality is.
I think she can be devastating if you know how to play her, but she gets beaten by almost everyone. Ana beats her(cus its ana lol) most tanks can take her, zen beats her with his orb and kick, most hitscans, phara, etc
The only ones who cant counter Ven are snipers apart from maybe ashe.
I'm consistently churning out ~10:1 on payload maps. They can't nerf her too hard because if they do she'd easily become unplayable. If they nerf her swing dmg, I'm okay with it so long as it gets compensated with bleed. Other than that, the only other solution is going to be to restandardize 6v6 so that an off-tank can protect the backline. Otherwise, there's not much else that can be done other than to learn how to counter her.
Unfortunately, I feel like they are going to make her unplayable. Worst case scenario, they nerf her cooldowns hard and make her just unfun and clunky to play. Best case scenario, they realize that tweaking perk numbers is enough to bring her down to good, but not oppressive.
If I had to bet it might be a armor nerf. So what I’ve noticed is she is super hard to kill for me on some characters and it’s just any shotguns characters really. But burstier damage types feel just fine against her. So I’d hope they leave her damage alone but make her a little less tanky.
Its going to be cooldowns, she will be heavily nerfed with an extra second added to Soaring Slice effectively cutting back her mobility and DPS at the same time, watch.
Hot take, buff :|
I mean I'm GM and supposedly she's rlly good in lower ranks and QP but I don't see it, I get bursted down in 2 seconds unless my tank is rlly good and it feels ass to be dependant asf
She’s overtuned in everything imo. A dps hero typically shouldn’t have everything, that’s what you would expect from a support or a tank. Small hitbox, 100+ armour, 275 total hp, high burst damage, fast mobility, etc.
Probably gonna be nerfed till only playable in masters and even than she probably will be outperformed by boring hitscan.
I swear, between Bastion getting buff creeped into a strong spot rn and Cass and Ashe still being heavily viable, we're looking at yet another hitscan season, not to mention the small but constant nerfs to Reaper and Venture that are bringing them into one bad overnerf and suddenly they become unplayable.
Fr its so hard to dive the hitscan rn with anyone except genji and I keep playing against zarya and Mei players
Ashe is so overtuned rn it’s not even funny
Yeah especially on console where I am
I like them nerfing venture though I’ll be honest. By far the easiest dive character let alone dps. But they need to leave reaper alone the last nerf wasn’t needed.
I sadly think this is exactly what’s gonna happen, which will add another sub optimal overwatch hero to the dps roster
i just hope they don’t make her unplayble, and keep her as agressive as she already is, her damages on main attacks are like 45 (without 3rd hit) its the damages of a quick melee so nerfing her dmg again will be a bit too much
i don’t like how ppl just gaslight everyone even the devs that she was broken
The argument was that if she wasn’t banned in comp and played instead she had a 60% win rate. I still think balancing off of win rates is dumb but that’s the way they do it.
She WAS broken
Still is
Lol...are people like you really this delusional? She is broken? She's by far the strongest hero in the game right now. How do you gaslight stats?
I'm not saying she isn't broken, but by that logic, Kiri is the worst support and Rein and Mercy are broken
Their win rates aren't 59 percent. How can you compare 51 percent and 53 percent to 59 percent? You are just making my point. You are not saying she isn't broken, but you also say people are gaslighting the devs into thinking she is broken. Which one is it? The devs consistently overtune heroes on release. Do you just not want her nerfed in any way?
I'm saying that win rates don't tell the full story and if you're trying to convince a subreddit full of people that main her and are biased, you should use more evidence than 'win rates high'
A 59 percent win rate with a high pick rate is enough evidence. If anyone says that is not enough just don't want her nerfed. Can you play devil's advocate for me and justify a character with a bonkers winrate with a high pick rate. Explain to me a situation where that hero would not be overturned.
She's new, and the fact that she's banned so much means that people don't learn how to play against her
Very controversial opinion from someone who bounces between mid daimond and masters but:
I think shes okay AT BEST.
Where im at 90% of the roster counters her in some way. Either through mobility or outdamaging her. She is very easy to kill and has no health for what her kit demands. She really needs Ventures shield passive imo. Also no she's not a dive character. She's a brawler.
But that being said I can see how people Plat and under are terrified of her.
She does both. The brawler playstyle just sucks at high ranks unless you have a Zarya, and even then it's still exploitable. You cannot play her this way into competent players, therefore you have to dive and she is actually pretty good in coordinated dives.
I'm actually at high diamond - low masters myself and I can confidently say games with her goes one of two ways, and it really just depends on which team is more aggressive. That's probably the biggest issue that Vendetta exacerbates. She is probably the perfect dive partner but one of the worst initiators. If she has someone to do chip or take aggro before she goes in, she can easily run through teams that can't decide on which target is best, but without someone to do that - her playstyle is so heavily altered that its more feasible to swap. For example, if she gets paired with a passive brawl team into a poke comp, her downtime is too high to justify.
Best case scenario would probably be to rework her passive to include shield gens but lower her damage; thus making her a better initiator but worse at solo kill confirms.
the issue is she forces the counter, if she is allowed to run free then her overtuned numbers allow her to run the lobby, simply having counters isnt balance, its just a mess where depending on the game she is over or under powered, which makes here badly balanced in every game
She's strong and fast but her aim can be hard to keep under control since she has to be attacking and defending from all angles (including air) without missing so the attack speed buildup don't drop.
I wonder if the nerfs are more about sound design and making people notice her better (please, don't make her as noticeable as reaper because she can'tjust tuen into fart and leave) instead of just nuking Loba with nerfs and asking the players to adjust to her all over again.
If I could ask for somethings it would be a better 3rd person perspective while blocking or even attacking (like Rein has) to keep tabs all around and a much faster escape tool kinda lije Genji when disengaging if they are coming with the nerfs.
Hm... there are a couple of ways. You either start slowly increasing her cooldowns but I don't think thats gonna fix her issue, most of the time you kinda sit on them and wait for an opportunity. Hitting her health would also be terrible since she is already squishy. Tbh... you might wanna hit her attack speed buff on her passive. Vendetta becomes insane once you have all stacks, its hard to get all of them but once you do you usually get a team wipe. Or... you do tone down her damage on the overhead a tiny bit (like-10) and make it so she isn't a straight up duelist anymore. You kill things, with you team, and only your team. Last option would be to increase the resource drain on block and make it something a bit more omnipotent. So like... a genji deflect without throwing back the damage, still taking some but its a one time "parry" like...you can block for half a second on a 2 or 3 second cooldown but it blocks sleeps and other stuff like that as well. It would increase the skillfloor for her by a fuckton while also making it something extremely rewarding to time.
Might be an odd take, but I'd argue she isn't a duelist in the normal sense currently. In dps and supports duels if she doesnt get her overhead first, she goes down pretty quickly (effectively making her an assassin), but its ironically in tank duels that she is a good duelist. Between overhead jumps displacing her significantly around tanks and Soaring being cancellable into the ground, you can body wrap tanks so strongly she can hold her own in those 1v1s.
Id argue engaging with overhead is usually pretty bad anyway cuz of the ending lag (and you need to use the other ability to get out most of the time) but yes, she is an insane tank duelist. Hm... now that I think about it, overhead counts as a crit right? Does the damage to tanks get nerfed? Cuz it specifies headshots and that might be the reason it feels so strong...
She's strong as fuck. That's about it really. I don't know how they'll nerf her, I just hope not too badly.
I feel a strong dependence on whether or not our tank makes space for me / tank uses the space I make for him.
In the second case I can go in, get some damage in, die, but we still win the fight because our tank goes in and clears the enemy team.
In the first case, however, this is where the fun is at, because I get to kill the whole enemy team.
I love her, I loved playing Magik in Rivals and I would joke about them adding Magik to the game once I dropped Rivals and picked up OW again. But I think people who say she isn't broken are a little delulu respectfully when in reality is.
I think she can be devastating if you know how to play her, but she gets beaten by almost everyone. Ana beats her(cus its ana lol) most tanks can take her, zen beats her with his orb and kick, most hitscans, phara, etc
The only ones who cant counter Ven are snipers apart from maybe ashe.
I'm consistently churning out ~10:1 on payload maps. They can't nerf her too hard because if they do she'd easily become unplayable. If they nerf her swing dmg, I'm okay with it so long as it gets compensated with bleed. Other than that, the only other solution is going to be to restandardize 6v6 so that an off-tank can protect the backline. Otherwise, there's not much else that can be done other than to learn how to counter her.
I just feel like I have a hard time punishing her. Dunno if it's the block or her armor. But I often feel doing no damage to her
Unfortunately, I feel like they are going to make her unplayable. Worst case scenario, they nerf her cooldowns hard and make her just unfun and clunky to play. Best case scenario, they realize that tweaking perk numbers is enough to bring her down to good, but not oppressive.
What perk numbers do you feel are oppressive?
If I had to bet it might be a armor nerf. So what I’ve noticed is she is super hard to kill for me on some characters and it’s just any shotguns characters really. But burstier damage types feel just fine against her. So I’d hope they leave her damage alone but make her a little less tanky.
This is honestly there reason we haven't had a melee character up until this point. Cool in theory, but a nightmare to balance.
Its going to be cooldowns, she will be heavily nerfed with an extra second added to Soaring Slice effectively cutting back her mobility and DPS at the same time, watch.
She's op against low ranked players
She's weak against high ranked players
So, 60% winrate is OP
56% winrate is weak?
Hot take, buff :| I mean I'm GM and supposedly she's rlly good in lower ranks and QP but I don't see it, I get bursted down in 2 seconds unless my tank is rlly good and it feels ass to be dependant asf
Cause you suck at vendetta
Nerf the armor.
She’s overtuned in everything imo. A dps hero typically shouldn’t have everything, that’s what you would expect from a support or a tank. Small hitbox, 100+ armour, 275 total hp, high burst damage, fast mobility, etc.