He's developed great, but thinking Keyonte would contend for #1 over Wemby in a redraft is delusional. Not sure about that #2 being such a lock either.
I’m not even sure 4th in a redraft is a lock. Wemby and then both Thompson twins go ahead of Keyonte for sure and then Keyonte would be vs players like Miller, Black, and Cason.
Keyonte averages 24 points, 4 rebounds, and 7 assists on 61% True shooting.
Ausar averages 11 points, 6 rebounds, and 2 assists on 54% True shooting.
Brandon Miller averages 19 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists on 53% True shooting.
Anthony Black averages 15 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 55% True shooting.
I understand stats aren’t everything, but it’s absolutely outrageous to say that a guy averaging an inefficient 11 points and 2 assists per game is a lock to go above a guy averaging a fairly efficient 24 points and 7 assists per game.
Yeah and keyonte absolutely blows Ausar out of the water at the more important one individually despite Ausar having one of the best playmakers in the league to set him up while Keyonte has to run the whole offense.
It may be subjective. I think Ausar, and I think many around the league would probably agree, is a better defender than Keyonte is an offensive player. Ausar is most likely making an all-nba team this season. And then Ausar is probably a better offensive player than Keyonte is a defensive player. I do agree offense does matter more than defense but that’s the reasoning. I think the semantics are subjective though, so that’s fair he can be in the discussion for 3rd pick in a redraft.
I’m going to assume you meant all defense because not a chance in hell Ausar is making an all nba team. And I could definitely see an argument that Ausar is a better offensive player than Key is defensive though both are not particularly good.
But individually, offense is much more important than defensive. For example, Rudy Gobert was maybe the best defender of this genration. On offense he was subpar skill wise, but still an important piece in some prolific offensive teams and had solid stats and advanced stats on that side of the ball.
On the other hand Steph Curry is maybe the best offensive player of this generation. On defense, he wasn’t the most skilled but was good enough to be part of some very good defensive teams.
Now tell me who you’d rather have. And I’d argue that individual defense matters even less when it comes to perimeter players such as Ausar. Look at players like Matisse Thybulle, elite all defense perimeter defender but struggles to get minutes because of subpar offense. A top 10 offensive player would never ever struggle to get minutes but it happens with defensive players.
A better comp is probably Rudy vs somebody like Nikola Vucevic.
Btw the fact that you’re citing Ausar as an “individual” defender is somewhat telling. He is one of the best players in the league at guarding all opponents and lifts their defense tremendously.
- Every Jazz player with more than 25 attempts in a season since 2017-2018.
Note: Extracting anything beyond shooting stats is considerably more demanding. This doesn’t tell the whole story, but I’m going to say outright that your eye test is incorrect.
Traditional stats for the 4th quarter/OT for Spida and Key during their 3rd season's, without any consideration of the score at the time.
That's interesting, thank you for doing that work and sharing. Their 3pt% is very close but not so much on the 2pt%. Recency bias is probably at play here, and perhaps significantly lower personal expectations for Key since Donovan started his career on such a high.
Key has had a few huge moments in clutch situations this year so I guess it's easy to remember those over some more ineffective ones. Against OKC I thought he definitely forced some shots in the 4th quarter and OT. Overall though, I like that he wants to be the person taking the big shot, but I think as he continues to progress he will get better at making the right plays instead of forcing the big shot. LeBron got a lot of criticism throughout his career for passing up the big shots at times. Whether that criticism is justified or not, LeBron has always been pretty outspoken about always looking for the right play. He said that was one the hardest adjustments coming out of high school where he was coached to always look for the right play, then he gets into the league and people want to see him score 40 a night.
It will be really fun to watch Keyonte continue to grow. We know that he can score, so this season it's nice to see things like good defensive effort (3 steals) and ball security (7 assists 0 TO's) in last night's game.
I don’t expect the Jazz to lose every game, but some of these key games against Dallas, Charlotte, Brooklyn etc. are really important because they’re full game swings in the standings. So far we have won all of them and I really feel like that’s going to bite us when the lottery rolls around. Looking at the bigger picture, I have no idea why we played Lauri 40 minutes tonight.
On the bright side, Cody, Walt, & Brice all continued to show some great growth tonight. On to the next one
M.I.L.K
FINNISHER destroyed the Mavs
Walt, Cody, and Brice had a great game
The tank doesn't improve, but at least Cody Williams isn't the worst player in the league anymore
I love Walt
Sickening. Loved every minute of it. Keyonte has developed insane amounts
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He's developed great, but thinking Keyonte would contend for #1 over Wemby in a redraft is delusional. Not sure about that #2 being such a lock either.
I’m not even sure 4th in a redraft is a lock. Wemby and then both Thompson twins go ahead of Keyonte for sure and then Keyonte would be vs players like Miller, Black, and Cason.
Keyonte averages 24 points, 4 rebounds, and 7 assists on 61% True shooting.
Ausar averages 11 points, 6 rebounds, and 2 assists on 54% True shooting.
Brandon Miller averages 19 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists on 53% True shooting.
Anthony Black averages 15 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists on 55% True shooting.
I understand stats aren’t everything, but it’s absolutely outrageous to say that a guy averaging an inefficient 11 points and 2 assists per game is a lock to go above a guy averaging a fairly efficient 24 points and 7 assists per game.
There are two ends to the court. I absolutely love Keyonte but can recognize the Thompson twins would be considered better prospects still.
Yeah and keyonte absolutely blows Ausar out of the water at the more important one individually despite Ausar having one of the best playmakers in the league to set him up while Keyonte has to run the whole offense.
It may be subjective. I think Ausar, and I think many around the league would probably agree, is a better defender than Keyonte is an offensive player. Ausar is most likely making an all-nba team this season. And then Ausar is probably a better offensive player than Keyonte is a defensive player. I do agree offense does matter more than defense but that’s the reasoning. I think the semantics are subjective though, so that’s fair he can be in the discussion for 3rd pick in a redraft.
I’m going to assume you meant all defense because not a chance in hell Ausar is making an all nba team. And I could definitely see an argument that Ausar is a better offensive player than Key is defensive though both are not particularly good.
But individually, offense is much more important than defensive. For example, Rudy Gobert was maybe the best defender of this genration. On offense he was subpar skill wise, but still an important piece in some prolific offensive teams and had solid stats and advanced stats on that side of the ball.
On the other hand Steph Curry is maybe the best offensive player of this generation. On defense, he wasn’t the most skilled but was good enough to be part of some very good defensive teams.
Now tell me who you’d rather have. And I’d argue that individual defense matters even less when it comes to perimeter players such as Ausar. Look at players like Matisse Thybulle, elite all defense perimeter defender but struggles to get minutes because of subpar offense. A top 10 offensive player would never ever struggle to get minutes but it happens with defensive players.
Yes definitely all degense.
A better comp is probably Rudy vs somebody like Nikola Vucevic.
Btw the fact that you’re citing Ausar as an “individual” defender is somewhat telling. He is one of the best players in the league at guarding all opponents and lifts their defense tremendously.
You're smoking crack give me wemby
Loss for the tank, but win for me because I was at the game :D
This Jazz team is fun to watch again. And we are tanking perfectly
I'd love to see the clutch stats on Keyonte vs Donovan. The eye test seems to show Keyonte is superior in the clutch.
Clutch shooting:
- Spida (3rd season)
- Key (3rd season)
- Every Jazz player with more than 25 attempts in a season since 2017-2018.
Note: Extracting anything beyond shooting stats is considerably more demanding. This doesn’t tell the whole story, but I’m going to say outright that your eye test is incorrect.
Traditional stats for the 4th quarter/OT for Spida and Key during their 3rd season's, without any consideration of the score at the time.
That's interesting, thank you for doing that work and sharing. Their 3pt% is very close but not so much on the 2pt%. Recency bias is probably at play here, and perhaps significantly lower personal expectations for Key since Donovan started his career on such a high.
Key has had a few huge moments in clutch situations this year so I guess it's easy to remember those over some more ineffective ones. Against OKC I thought he definitely forced some shots in the 4th quarter and OT. Overall though, I like that he wants to be the person taking the big shot, but I think as he continues to progress he will get better at making the right plays instead of forcing the big shot. LeBron got a lot of criticism throughout his career for passing up the big shots at times. Whether that criticism is justified or not, LeBron has always been pretty outspoken about always looking for the right play. He said that was one the hardest adjustments coming out of high school where he was coached to always look for the right play, then he gets into the league and people want to see him score 40 a night.
It will be really fun to watch Keyonte continue to grow. We know that he can score, so this season it's nice to see things like good defensive effort (3 steals) and ball security (7 assists 0 TO's) in last night's game.
I don’t expect the Jazz to lose every game, but some of these key games against Dallas, Charlotte, Brooklyn etc. are really important because they’re full game swings in the standings. So far we have won all of them and I really feel like that’s going to bite us when the lottery rolls around. Looking at the bigger picture, I have no idea why we played Lauri 40 minutes tonight.
On the bright side, Cody, Walt, & Brice all continued to show some great growth tonight. On to the next one
We played him 40 minutes because the coach and players don't want to lose.
Loves a tank win at home
Caught the last few minutes, Brice with some clutch plays, Key survived the blitz and put Flagg in a blender, Lauri beautiful as always.
The streams i use are bad. Watched the highlights tho, good game
Streameast works well and often with Jazz commentary.
I'll try. Thanks
All these tank folks.. silent... we trying to win here.