This is my first post here, so I apologize if I’ve broken any rules.
My family and I have been attending a nearby UU church for more than a year now, and my wife and I really love it. We became members earlier this year, and I’ve become the coordinator of our affinity group for fathers.
But our 10 year old son is more lukewarm about it. He used to join the other kids in RE after the weekly wisdom lesson, but not anymore. More recently, like yesterday, he’s been opting to stay home altogether.
We want him to join us every week at church, to start doing RE again, and, especially, to do the OWL program as soon as he’s eligible. But we also don’t want to drag him to church or force him to do anything. My wife and I were raised Catholic; been there, done that. How can we accomplish our goal without coercion?
I would appreciate any advice from this community. Thank you! 🙏🏽
He is 10. While some kids like church the same way they like school at 10, others do not. Getting a ten year old magically into church isn't really something we can do. The right member of your congregation maybe, but not us.
As far as owl goes, yes it would be great to get him in that. I wouldn't force it though. You could always compensate by educating yourselves better, so you can educate him better.
We're kind of old school, in that so far, we've said, "Church is what our family does on Sundays" much of the time. Now, we do opt out sometimes (like a musical service or anything involving amateur theater! Or just because we have other things to do), so I get that not everything that happens there is for everyone.
So my kid has choices to some degree, but within certain parameters — he can go to the service with us, or stay with the kids, and his level of participation is more or less up to him. But we feel like there's a benefit simply to the routine of family doing things together.
OWL was cringe for him while it was happening but was also clearly beneficial and educational. He references it from time to time even a year later. I am pretty sure we'll require him to participate in the next round, too.
I agree. That's what we did with our kids until the younger one was in high school. We also, once we had two services, all went to RE during one hour and the service during the other. When the older one was about to start junior high, the parents of junior high kids also got together and created a Sunday evening youth group, which the congregation did not have, and were fortunately were able to recruit someone in their 20s to lead it so it was free of parents. Among other things, it gave kids something to invite their friends to that wasn't "church" - although we actually had a number of families we knew from daycare and school who started coming before that because they knew we did. So, maybe if there are other activities like potlucks, encourage him to invite a friend. And if there aren't, maybe the congregation should add them.
I like the idea of attending both the RE and service. Unfortunately, we've cut down to one service on Sundays so this is no longer an option for us.
I have wondered for 40 years now why UU congregations have RE at the same time as the service. Worship is important for everyone. Our high school kids asked for a class on attending a service at one point - most of them had never been, and they were expected to conduct one once a year on Youth Sunday. It was sad and infuriating.
Probably because it's really difficult to be consistently engaging to both kids and adults.
I mean every once in a while, sure. Especially for high school kids. But I remember (non-UU) sermons I went to as a kid being absolutely interminable, and spending a lot of time reading Revelation or memorizing the hymnal.
My experience as a kid 9a long time ago) was good. Sure, I spent some time going through the hymnal and mentally adding "under the covers" to the hymn titles or first lines. And using the order of service to do rubbings of the embossed hymnal cover when I was very young. But i enjoyed singing the hymns, and the sermons were usually interesting. And, unlike the UU congregation. I spent much of m adult life in, almost everyone knew and interacted with all the kids. I thin kit is partly because UU services tend to be more on the lecture side than the worship side. My son-in-law is Catholic, and my grandsons are being brought up there, and go to mass as a matter of course. Mass is a much more interactive and ritual experience (as actually, the liberal Baptist services i was brought up in were.)
My current church has youth and children in for the first half, unless it is a special service. That's a good compromise between making young children sit thru a sermon and not having them in the service at all until high school or later. It can make it challenging for RE because it cuts there time.
Mine did something similar. I'm fuzzy on the details - I think we went to the first part of the service once a month, but it might have been more frequent. I remember the song we sang when we went out. Some of this may have been from being in the children's choir, as well.
But there were also times we stayed for the whole service. Again, this might have happened once a month, or there might have just been time when Sunday School was on break, because I definitely remember sitting through the whole service at times.
Our congregation has service at 10am and RE at 11:25 after coffee/snack time. Kids are expected to sit through service starting at age 8. We even have a welcoming ceremony for them. Only littles go to the nursery during service.
We always gave him the choice of staying with us (and even bringing a book) or going to RE, but now he's opting out of both. Not always, but frequently enough that it bothers me.
Well yeah, given an option, staying home alone will always be the preferred choice. That’s the closest thing to absolute freedom a 10 year old gets
This
It sounds like he may not have anybody he’s looking forward to seeing in RE. Are there ways you can support him in building friendships at the church? Does he like doing more than sitting and listening? Maybe there’s a way he can help set up coffee hour or some kind of age-appropriate job he can be engaged in and appreciated for?
I'd pick my battles.
Personally, I wouldn't push RE. If him not going to church would interfere with the ability of other family members to attend, then I'd require him to go but allow him to do some quiet activity (reading, watching something on a tablet while wearing headphones, drawing) during the service.
OWL - Is he required to go to RE to attend OWL? How often do they offer it? When will he be eligible? I'd be more inclined to force OWL than RE. But if this isn't imminent, it's a bridge I'd cross when I come to it, and perhaps not forcing the RE in the meantime will make it less of an issue.
I agree on being more inclined to force OWL than RE. If you force RE, you end up with a teen who doesn’t want to go to church in adulthood. If you force OWL, you end up with a kid who begrudgingly has safe understandings of relationships and sex. No kid is excited to do OWL, but it is important
for my kids, OWL wasn't optional. Now they are both in their 20s and say they are glad they did it. (I'm an OWL facilitator too )
Same for my 2 girls, they started at the elementary OWL and carried on through high school. Both in their 20's and in college. The negotiation skills it taught were enough to make it not optional also.
my eldest went (with me) to the doctor, the doctor asked me to leave, fine, but my son said no. so the doc started to explain about nocturnal emissions and son said "I know all about it " doc said where did you learn that? He said "church"
Love it! some of my fav memories are the times my daughters had to correct friend's incredibly bad info about sex etc. They were the go to kids for informal sex ed. No embarrassment.
If your congregation offers other opportunities for families to gather outside of Sunday mornings, I would try to attend some of those. They are usually more casual and less structured and could provide more opportunities to make friends with his peers. The more time that you all spend together in this third space, the more comfortable he will feel there. It is totally normal for him to be resistant to church, especially if it’s relatively new for your family. I know some parents who do things like get hot chocolate and donuts before church, or go out to lunch after church to make it more special for their kiddos.
Our church has a 'first Friday' thing where they have food/snacks/drinks, board games, etc. We went to one and our son had a great time playing those. We should go more often.
It’s kind of stereotypically the case that kids find OWL somewhere between boring and mortifying when actually going through it, but then benefit from what they learned later. I don’t think you can expect him to be excited about OWL, but you can say, “This stuff is important for you to learn and I want you to learn it here, where you’ll get correct info and be empowered to make your own informed choices when you are older. If you don’t want to engage in services or RE beyond OWL, that’s okay.”
I told my students that knowing about boundaries and consent would help them in every aspect of their lives.
I was raised in the UU church. I stopped wanting to go to ANY church around 10, when given a choice. I was rarely pushed at all but my dad would sometimes talk to me about spirituality and philosophy, different world religions. Never forced. I’m 45 now, have a meditation practice and I returned to the UU church last year. Be like water ❤️
Have you asked him why he doesn’t want to go?
As someone who grew up UU and went to OWL I would strongly suggest letting him skip church. OWL is worth fighting for though. Sex education is extremely beneficial and it's really hard to find good sources especially as a child/ teen. Everyone I know who has gone through OWL has appreciated it and talked about it far far into adulthood. RE I feel is really only beneficial if you're a willing participant.
I totally agree last year OWL was the only part of church we required and it paid off because he made closer friendships doing this
I think a really important part of faith is testing it. He is testing his faith in you.
This is less about church and more about wanting to see if you will respect his decision imo. I advise letting him do this for awhile. That will be convincing in its own way.
'UU parents don't push. This isn't required.' Are show rather than tell lessons.
You two sound like you are doing GREAT btw.
Thank you! We're trying 😊
About Young Church, I suspect (a) the classes are small and kids have their own friends, so maybe he feels left out and/or (b) he's bored or not interested in what's being covered. I recall teaching the section of Jesus to 10/11 year olds/5th and 6th graders, we read sections from the gospel (Good News easier to read), and in the class of maybe 8 or 10 kids, the girls were more engaged, like to take turns reading, and would be more likely to respond to questions and ask questions. That said, I recall one cynical comment by one of the kids, that Young Church was just because parents wouldn't level them alone at home, when they (parents) went to church.
I have a similar issues my 10 year old isn’t interested and part of that is he hasn’t really made friends there. But he needs to go to make friends. 🤷♀️
I was made to attend as a child against my wishes and it caused me trauma that I deal with now as an adult, so in my case, I don’t agree with the others saying to just insist your child attends and force him through OWL. Have you asked him why exactly he does not want to attend? If not, start there and figure out a solution together! There might be a simple reason that could be resolved and you could make an agreement on attendance that you’d all be happy with.
Are you in a part of the country where it would both be ok to invite a friend to a religious service and be ok that it was a UU service? (I realize I may have described five square miles, LOL) If he could bring friends to church, maybe he would like it more. Think carefully about the friends, there may be an expectation of reciprocity!
Also, does RE suck at your congregation? Do you know if they are working with clear lessons? Is it structured so a ten year old gets something out of it or is it mostly babysitting 6 year olds? Could someone be being mean to your kid? Maybe you need to fix the RE program so it's worth attending
Thanks for this - you listed most of the things that were coming to mind for me. Does RE suck? Do they have a plan? Do they recognize that kids of different ages have different needs (really important if it's a smaller church)? Was someone mean?
At our church, there've been good DRE's and so-so DRE's (no really bad ones), and currently our DRE is the best we've ever had. She finds something to do for everyone no matter their age level.
Ours is 13 and she's been attending since she was about 6 weeks old, so our situation is a little different, since there's never been a time that she's considered not going. There have been a few times lately that we couldn't get her out of bed, so we just left her at home. Then, when we get home, she's really pissed that she missed it, but she knows it's on her.
This was one of the issues at the church I went to growing up. They had a group of kids about 2 years older than me, and a group about 2 years younger, but no one else actually my age. So I was lumped in with the younger kids. Wasn't great.
I don't think it's possible to force him. As an unchurched kid growing up-- my parents were atheists and I can't recall ever even stepping inside any church building growing up--, I've wondered aloud about UU RE why a kid would want to go for further education/class on Sunday.
My situation is a little different because my 9 year old is homeschooled (at their request) and while they do have many social outlets besides church, we’ve talked about how one of the trade offs with homeschooling is being intentional about social opportunities and building community. So I do have a little more leverage due to that.
I’ve made church semi-mandatory in that “you don’t always have to like it but it’s important for building community to go, have the spiritual education/experience, and see these people every week.” That said, I support them in making the experience as painless as possible. Some Sundays that means letting them stay in service with noise cancelling headphones while they sketch in their sketchbook, although most Sundays they choose to go to the RE classroom. Occasionally, they really just can’t muster the emotional energy to go and I respect that as long as it’s not an every Sunday thing.
I was raised UU and forced to go and that really soured my experience. I remember trying to tell my mom as a teenager I was burnt out with school and work, and needed Sunday mornings to myself. It was really invalidating that she didn’t listen. So I really approach it with my kid with the framework of — “this is a priority, how can we make it so this is doable for you?” Rather than, “you’re going whether you like it or not.”
My own kid is very much an introvert, he does not like group activities with people he doesn't already know well and even then, he likes to top out at about eight kids at the very most. I haven't bothered getting him to do any organized anything that he doesn't want to do, just because there's no use. I don't think he will learn very well if he isn't into it.
I wouldn’t push mandatory attendance but would encourage him to attend special services. Yule service is great for kids who like fires. Music services, water & flower communions depending on interests. One son worked Sundays after losing interest in youth group but kept helping out with maintenance team. Because of that experience, less than six months after graduating high school he became a maintenance tech for a restaurant chain and is HVAC, welding, and refrigeration certified. He does electronics & their sprinkler systems too. Another son would faithfully attend banking team where we’d make a month’s worth of coffee hour sweets. Another got involved with the landscaping team without attending services. Two became active in youth group leadership in high school.
I appreciated that my children they could find community connections & mentors without having to attend Sunday services.
So far as OWL, I’d tell my children that it contained critical information for them to have healthy, safe & more fulfilling sex lives for life. Their choice was to have me teach them the material (and go over the curriculum with them so they know the breadth of it) or they could do it with peers in a class facilitated by people who aren’t their parents.
As a former homeschooling mom, looking for comprehensive, inclusive, sex positive, and accurate sex ed curricula is what led me to OWL and the UU church. My oldest is 29 now (as expecting his first) and my youngest is 18. I’m now an OWL facilitator passing on all that so many poured into my children.
I have definitely forced my son to go to OWL. If it makes you feel better, within a couple sessions he was fine with it. If you are all new to the church maybe he's not feeling socially comfortable but you definitely GET comfy in an OWL class
I can't speak as a parent but I can speak as someone who went to a baptist church as a child and only recently decided to go to a local UU service. Church felt like an obligation to me and more schooling and it didn't matter the content being taught. It was only later in life that I really saw any value in religion.
So it may feel like another teacher; in one ear out the other until I need it again.
My kids built homes for Habitat for Humanity in RE. They really enjoyed that and can walk through a house and tell you what was built to code. I never heard a word about OWL from them. If a kid wanted to skip it, that would be fine with me.