Wtf are you talking about... she is a bad ass woman that could meet the standards.... that is the point, not having to dumb down the standards just so women can be included.
With the incredible fitness level she would be maintaining,, and the metabolism that likely comes with it, she would drink his ass under the table no problem most likely. Not like most soldiers are strangers to alcohol either.
I think the man is an utter joke, I’d like to preface, but I believe the viral video of his pull ups was at the very end of a long set of decent pull ups. Still. The fucking moron has no place bring in any power position. He’s a neurotic drunk.
Than how can you know what's real or not? Feels like so many people have reverted to the days of "Preacher told me what that gay guy is saying. Why should I independently listen to what they are saying". Thats not a good thing, you should not be happy for going back to that mentality
I’m straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles
Or when he wrote in his book:
Women can serve as pilots and support troops, and they may sometimes find themselves in the cross fire of the modern battlefield. But placing them in infantry or artillery units causes problems.
And
Dads push us to take risks. Moms put the training wheels on our bikes. We need moms. But not in the military, and especially not in combat roles.
But placing them in infantry or artillery units causes problems.
as far as i understand and know this is true, but more in unit cohesion ways, not that the woman cause problems themselves, just that their presence causes problems. one can argue to change training to combat the cohesion problems altough many are in favor simply excluding them.
Trump ordered a memorial to black veterans removed from a military cemetery. He also ordered references to slavery removed from Harper’s Ferry National Historic Site.
I’m going to edit this phrase out: “Crawl back into your MAGAt hole.” Because I don’t really know if Nelsqnwithacue is actually a MAGAt, or uninformed, or just doesn’t recognize what the Trump administration is up to.
What was removed was a rotational interpretive panel, not a memorial. In other words, they changed the signage to highlight some other memorial aspect important to the site. These get rotated on a regular basis. This entire controversy is made up.
If you are talking about the panels that are located in a US Military Museum in the Netherlands, then no, they were not part of a rotational presentation. The US side took it down because it mentioned the segregation that took place inside the USA during WWII. The Dutch flipped a lid when they heard of the disrespect and demanded the panels be given to them so they can continue to honor the Americans whome served in the War and liberation of their country.
The Museum is located near an American graveyard t d that the Dutch locals have tended to since the last body was buried there. They have more respect for all the US servicemen of WWII than the current US Administration.
idk what the standards for ranger school are, but the general Army PFT standards are absolutely lower for women. I had a squad leader who got in trouble for mocking an officers accomplishment of a 300+ PT score, to which he said "i would score over 300 too if I only had to do 10 pushup and 20 situps". hes not wrong, but dude pick your battles.
He's wrong because the APFT ten years ago would require a female to do anywhere from 53 to 40 pushups for a 300+ score depending on how old they are, with 40 being for women in their mid 40s..
Not to mention the situps + complete a 2-mile under 15:36
Even now it's close to the same numbers, if not like 5% more challenging. It was never "easy" for average women to get a 300, just like it's not easy for fat asses with tape waivers to get a 300.
The minimum for a 21 year old male is 42 push ups - which is a 100 on the female chart.
The slowest two mile time for a 21 year old male gets you a 96 on the female chart - shave twenty seconds and you get a 100.
What's the date on your chart there?
Anyway that doesn't make me wrong that makes my point the same. A female didn't get to stop at 20 pushups for 100 score.
My memory is admittedly hazy on this and I don't even really feel like looking it up but I believe that the female SM standards required more situps than the males did to max the APFT.
Your memory is wrong. Sit-ups were the only event where the passing score for females was the same as males, but to max males still had to do more. It 53 for both to pass, 80 for males to max, 75 for females to max.
The real unfair event was pushups. 42 for males to PASS, 42 for females to max. The army does a lot things wrong and hegseth is a drunk idiot, but moving towards gender neutral standards is a good thing, even if the motives are wrong.
There's a BIG difference between general army PFT requirements and those that are necessary for special units like the rangers, or even regular front-line infantry. General requirements covers everyone, including non-combat roles. I don't care if a female mechanic, pilot, or logistics personnel is held to the same standards as their male counterpart. That's not where their value lies and it would be detrimental to the force to require as such. However, if infantry is required to be able to carry their wounded buddy to safety, that requirement is gender neutral.
first, it's not "dumb down"...it's "double standards"...But Hegseth used the term "watered down". second, Pete Hegseth has repeatedly said that women should generally not serve in ground combat roles. He has said men are more capable in those positions and including women in them decreases 'effectiveness'. He then said that if no women qualify under the male standards, “so be it.” And this is from a guy whose combat experience is a year in iraq--a couple of years AFTER the US invaded and squashed sadaam's army. I didn't google any of this. I'm pulling it from memory of shit I've read a while back but I bet I'm close enough that my points are still valid about this guy. He hasn't walked the walk enough to talk the talk.
I wish i had the power here to make your comment the top comment. This should be all over the news. You know why it's not? Because there are so few journalists who have served in the military. I'm not even in the military but my parents were both Army. Even I know how uncommon it is to not have one of these. It's almost never heard of beyond the rank of lieutenant... and he was beyond that rank. So it's even a worse stat for him. It just helps prove that he was "staff" material and nothing better. I feel so sorry and embarrassed for our military to have this guy in charge of them...and I'm not even military.
Well, Hegseth was in the national guard, not active duty. When you’re only a soldier one weekend a month, the expectations that you will complete those extra schools are lessened somewhat. Now, whether we should put someone who was only a soldier for one weekend a month in charge of the entire military is another question entirely.
Also, he was kicked out for his hate group tattoos. So, you know, not just a pretend soldier, but one that wasn’t even allowed to keep pretending.
That’s not hate on the Guard, by the way. A lot of them do a lot in the military, many do far more real stuff than a lot of active troops. But not that one.
The idiocy of people is believing that every man exists above a line and every woman is below that line.
In Military training 20% of females beat 50% of males, there just wasn't a woman in first second or third, but they were 15 of the top 50, well above plenty of men training along side them.
People also ignore that a lot of the training is aimed at men, there was never over flow, a woman does 120 sit-ups, the points cap out, so a man doing 65 will get the same score but he is gonna win on points for doing ten more push-ups.
"just so women can be included.", we REQUIRE that they are included, we lose every war ever fought throughout history if there was zero woman.
"just so women can be included." what is shithead ass statement.
All the women who have fought for, died for our country, who got there passing a test that wasn't exactly the same as men, should we forget about them? What a terrible, terrible leader.
They (training commanders interviewed from several branches I think) were summarized on NPR the other day … saying that every female training for a combat role of any kind is already way exceeding anything dumbass wants to impose. So it’s a non-issue. Also I think I maybe heard an interview (npr?) with this specific champion (Gabrielle) …. And She talks specifically about doing literally everything the guys did in training despite not even having to in some cases …. Her commentary as one would expect is that it has nothing to do with gender and more to do with everyone being able to hack it in order to count on each other in a bad situation. (Which as we know is literally what these people do, go into bad situations) So the vast majority of these folks rose above some culture war gender distraction BS before they even started.
Wtf are you talking about? I think OPs point is pretty obvious... once Hegseth realizes his changes haven't disqualified all women, he'll have a hissy fit and invent some new shit to try and do it again.
Do you actually think OPs title is any way, shape or form a criticism of her??
E: holy fuck this thread is crazyyy... Cant tell if Americans are that ignorant that they can't see the point being made; or if this subs alt-right AF playing defense for the openly misogynist drunk that's on numerous occasions expressed his desire to get women out of any combat role.
The standards for combat roles were never lowered for women. Basic physical fitness standards are age and gender scaled, but if youre going for a certain job (especially in a combat unit, even basic infantry), there is one standard for all. It's been that way since at least 2016. So it begs the question of why he keeps bringing it up.
Finished 14th along with her teammate out of the 16 teams that made it to the final events in April. More than 50 teams competed. Fitness standards for men and women for the Army Ranger school are identical.
I applaud everyone who serves, but this headline doesn't make any sense.
Out of 52 all male teams.... Is this a team competition or an individual one? Did she compete on a team? Did she finish? Who won?
And what's with the Hegseth reference? You don't want him to single out badasses? Why wouldn't he want the achievements of his troops celebrated? And why make this political? Are you one of those who eats, sleeps, and breathes a seething hatred? Orange man bad and so is over half the voting population?
According to Google, there were 52 teams of two and she placed 14th with her male teammate. Hegseth has said that he isn't against women in the military, he's against lowering standards to allow more women to qualify. It appears that this 1st Lt competed under the same standards as everyone else, so I don't know why he'd care.
Because the military is already having MAJOR trouble reaching their recruiting goals for years now. Also the Ukrainian and russian war has been a good case study of how modern warfare actually works. This isn't the 1400s where people are fighting with swords. It's all basically technology with drones, guns etc. I think I heard that the person who now holds the most sniper kills is a woman in the Ukrainian military.
So yea... Unless people can't carry things or run at a good speed there should be no issue with women joining a modern military
The actual quote is "Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world."
Pete has repeatedly said women don't belong in war fighter positions. Being a ranger is certainly a step in that direction. Get over that nonsense tds/magads and let the actual reality set in. Women have been more than capable of killing a man. I'm willing to be wild Petey would lose to quite a few of them. Dude was a major. Just a major. He has no qualifications to be what he is and where he is. He belongs on a shitty Saturday morning talk show, bitchin bout woke bs. If we were talking bout dei still that lil dude would be the picture reference for the dictionary.
I'm a bit confused. Doesn't this prove Hegseth's point that women are not able to perform to the same standard as men when it comes to competitions based on raw strength? After all, only one women has ever made it all the way. I am assuming women are allowed to compete, right? They just struggle to complete it. Wasn't Hegseth saying we shouldn't make the competition easier so more women can complete it?
Or, am I missing something?
(Edit: to add. really wish I hadn't needed to post this comment, and instead I could have just celebrated a badass woman doing something awesome. But, OP needed to make a lame political-points winning remark that sadly doesn't, to me at least, make any logical sense. And I'm a liberal!)
Performance ceilings are an interesting thing. After one person breaks it, more tend to follow in suit, until eventually their entire cohort is elevated to a similar standard.
Sometimes all it takes is the knowledge that a feat is possible to completely shift the thinking in younger people and encourage them to strive to for a similar position.
I feel like this more often than not isn't the case. The biggest counter-example I can think of is chess, where not even Judit Polgár being in top 10 has opened the gates, and currently there are no women in the top 100.
I would argue that that really isn’t a counterexample.
First, one of the biggest barriers for women playing chess is lack of support, except Judit and her sisters were a chess experiment taught by their IM father from a young age who was already respected in the chess community.
Secondly, there’ve been only three women who’ve ever been in the open Top 100, and I believe both of those came after Judit’s reign (Hou Yifan is one of them and would’ve likely been higher if she didn’t retire early). It’s going to take a bit before there’s a large cohort of girls inspired by Judit in the top 100, much like it took until now for a lot of the Vishy-inspired Indian prodigies to make it to the top level.
Third is that chess and honestly the world as a whole is still a pretty misogynistic place. Any woman who plays OTB chess consistently can tell you about it, and it’s likely the biggest contributor to the lack of women reaching those higher tiers of chess. Abuse is still unfortunately common and overlooked by chess authorities, just look at the recent Jennifer Shahade USCF case.
That’s easier to reach past these issues when you have a well-respected IM father backing you, and even then only one Polgar sister ever made it to the top 100 (apparently not even the most talented one).
There’s also the purported tendency for women to be less hard headed and stubborn to professionally compete in a game as unforgiving as chess is. The same brain power that could painstakingly etch out a chess career could also be used to have an easier and more profitable career in a STEM field.
Apologies for the word wall, this is just something I’m super passionate about, and I’m still hopeful for more women in the top 100 in the coming decades.
After all, only one women has ever made it all the way. I am assuming women are allowed to compete, right?
Women have only been allowed to even attempt the Army ranger course to become a ranger officially since 2015. That doesn't say anything about their challenges around the entire "boys club" culture and people who hold views like Hegseth that women in general aren't fit for roles like Ranger that could be approving or denying them for different opportunities like Ranger school in a completely biased way. To make note of the person in the post being the first woman to compete in the 10 years that has even been possible is totally valid because the selection for the competition is internally within a unit and not some objective scoring system of who is the "Best Ranger". If only ~150 or so women have become rangers since they were first allowed it is not surprising that a small number of that would want to compete in the competition and some number of those that want to compete would be rejected by their leadership for various invalid and valid reasons ranging from sexism bias to not being the preferred candidate for logical reasons.
They just struggle to complete it
Out of the 52 teams that competed in the competition Lt. White and her teammate were one of only 16 to complete it which means women have a 100% completion rate of the competition while men have a large failure rate with only about 33% completing this time around. Those stats are basically meaningless because your assumption is that women struggle to complete it even though this is the first time they've even got to try and compete for it and I wanted to highlight how lacking context your assertion is.
Wasn't Hegseth saying we shouldn't make the competition easier so more women can complete it?
Or, am I missing something?
You're missing the part where Hegseth is dogwhistling about women not being fit for the military (not just this for fun competition like you're saying), he has said "designated combat arms position, returns to the highest male standard only... If women can make it, excellent. If not, it is what it is." which if you took out the word "male" and made the second part gender neutral would sound pretty logical overall that there should be a set standard and if you meet it then you qualify and if not then you don't. Except it wasn't gender neutral but was intentionally singling out female soldiers and implying they are unfit for combat roles even though the standards for combat roles are not lowered for female soldiers already and have been gender neutral standards for combat roles since the '90s. Again it's just misogynistic dogwhistling about "male superiority" which is accompanied with him at the same time doing things like removing exemptions for religious and medical reasons to not have a tight shave which disproportionately affects POC soldiers, especially African Americans that get bad ingrown hairs and other issues if they get too close of a shave. So if you're curious why people say he is misogynistic and racist it is probably because those people listened to the words he said.
Your question is a good one, I'm not sure I can answer it succinctly, but I'll try.
A lack of evidence is not evidence, and extrapolation is not an answer.
Pete Hegseth insisted this was impossible because it hadn't been done. Imagine thinking this way about curing infectious diseases. Just because we haven't cured a disease doesn't mean we can't. If we believe we can't because we haven't, then we definitely won't. Now imagine thinking that women can't cure infectious diseases because they haven't. That's how scientists used to think, and it kept women out of stem fields.
Just because women haven't competed or passed this test is not evidence that they can't. It is entirely possible that the answer is as simple as women don't want to hang out with a bunch of guys like Pete Hegseth. The observable phenomenon may not have anything to do with women's physical capabilities.
I have heard SecWar speak many times via Youtube, and when I see short-clips where he says anything about female service members, I go watch the full clip, and Pete's very clear and consistent stance is that standards should be formed to the job. Women, as a rule, are not passing the rigerous requirements for tougher programs, and standards should not be lowered to allow them, or weaker men, in. Because this is such a 99.9% true fact, it's not out of place to say Women should not be on the tip of the spear. The one or two that can, SecWar has no problem with, they meet the standard.
It's not a point that needs proving in the first place. When both are at their peak, men will outperform women 100 times out of a 100. There isn't even a margin for error, it's going to be a landslide. Hence why all sports are gendered, it wouldn't be fair to female athletes otherwise.
But somehow the military got under fire for sticking with this objective and undeniable truth.
There are other sources in google that say "COMPETE" and others that say "COMPLETE". Don't fall into the trap of believing your first source. Everyone in this post is rushing off to google to see if they can bash this title, this woman, or OP......but I learned a long time ago on reddit that a title of a post is often found the exact same way somewhere else and that's why OP used it. Sure enuf, looks like I was right about this one, too.
CBS and NBC news said she was the first to compete. The New York Time said the same. Also, in the same article you linked to, which you obviously did not bother to read, it literally says COMPETE. edit Your comment is removed for misinformation.
"If women can make it, excellent. If not, it is what it is," he said on Tuesday. "If that means no women qualify for some combat jobs, so be it. That is not the intent, but it could be the result."
Yeah! The standards are clearly too high and we should lower them arbitrarily so unfit women can enter and die whilst getting others killed in the process. Yay equality! /S 🙄. If she can pass the standard that men are put to she is an outlier and deserves to be there. Congrats to her. This is combat not carpentry. You can’t just set a goal of 50/50 men and women. It really should just be the strongest people possible which is going to be 99 percent men let’s be real.
I can't believe we're still fucking arguing about this. How unbelievably pathetic that we just want to close our eyes shove our head in the sand and ignore reality as it is.
I’m a veteran of the Army airborne and I know the criminal trump and his thugs must be stopped from further destruction of our country and its democratic principles.
As an infantry officer, Hegseth couldn't pass Ranger School... or Airborne School...or Air Assault School. All of those should be prerequisites for an infantry officer.
He should slink back under his desk. Fairly sure his commanders and subordinates viewed his few accomplishments as uninspiring.
That picture with the sweat coming off of her chin is pretty awesome. It kind of reads like I know what the heck I’m doing and I’m great at it and I’m a bad to the bone.
what's petty about it? anyway, op knew what he was doing...it's engagement bait....and a good one. The only petty I see are in the comments, and that's impossible to avoid on Reddit when discussing politics.
If she can stand her own with those guys, which is EXACTLY the point Hegseth is trying to make, whether you agree with him or not, that means she is an absolute beast of a soldier and deserves to be there.
You discount her success by even acknowledging she is a woman. Why couldn't she just be successful as a person. I would bet $1 million that if you asked her if you could use her image and story for your little post you would have been met with a cold blank stare. Same as what most people you encounter in life give you.
If a female can pass the standards as they are laid out equally across the board then I say let them have whatever reward accolades and let him do whatever they need to do.
Uh, you’re literally making Pete Hegseth’s point. She’s the exceptional solider who meets or exceeds the baseline standard. Precisely what he’s going for, right?
Wtf are you talking about... she is a bad ass woman that could meet the standards.... that is the point, not having to dumb down the standards just so women can be included.
Fair point.
At the end of the day a ranger who can pass the qualifications regardless of sex is still a bad ass ranger.
They have never actually heard what Hegseth's views are about this matter.
Nobody should really listen to Hegseth’s dumbass views on anything.
Yeah, Whiskey Leaks Hegseth is drunk all the time anyway.
I would put money on this lady kicking his ass in any competition.
Based on how he does pull ups, that's pretty much a guarantee...unless it's a drinking competition. Then he's got a chance.
With the incredible fitness level she would be maintaining,, and the metabolism that likely comes with it, she would drink his ass under the table no problem most likely. Not like most soldiers are strangers to alcohol either.
I think the man is an utter joke, I’d like to preface, but I believe the viral video of his pull ups was at the very end of a long set of decent pull ups. Still. The fucking moron has no place bring in any power position. He’s a neurotic drunk.
Kegsbreath, the DUI hire
Google Hegseth and pull ups and thank me later.
Statistically this is a piss poor bet that you would likely lose. I'm not even a hegseth fan.
Hegseth Pull Ups
Just because males genetically are stronger than females does not automatically mean all males are stonger than all females.
Yan-Fei Zhao squated 221 KG (487 lbs) more than twice her weight.
How much can you squat?
He's right on not dropping standards in the name of diversity.
Than how can you know what's real or not? Feels like so many people have reverted to the days of "Preacher told me what that gay guy is saying. Why should I independently listen to what they are saying". Thats not a good thing, you should not be happy for going back to that mentality
You mean when he said:
Or when he wrote in his book:
And
as far as i understand and know this is true, but more in unit cohesion ways, not that the woman cause problems themselves, just that their presence causes problems. one can argue to change training to combat the cohesion problems altough many are in favor simply excluding them.
Trump ordered a memorial to black veterans removed from a military cemetery. He also ordered references to slavery removed from Harper’s Ferry National Historic Site.
I’m going to edit this phrase out: “Crawl back into your MAGAt hole.” Because I don’t really know if Nelsqnwithacue is actually a MAGAt, or uninformed, or just doesn’t recognize what the Trump administration is up to.
What was removed was a rotational interpretive panel, not a memorial. In other words, they changed the signage to highlight some other memorial aspect important to the site. These get rotated on a regular basis. This entire controversy is made up.
If you are talking about the panels that are located in a US Military Museum in the Netherlands, then no, they were not part of a rotational presentation. The US side took it down because it mentioned the segregation that took place inside the USA during WWII. The Dutch flipped a lid when they heard of the disrespect and demanded the panels be given to them so they can continue to honor the Americans whome served in the War and liberation of their country.
The Museum is located near an American graveyard t d that the Dutch locals have tended to since the last body was buried there. They have more respect for all the US servicemen of WWII than the current US Administration.
A little passive aggressive, but I'll take it. Thank you for sharing.
This is Reddit. We act out as much as the Mods allow. Also depends on how much coffee we’ve had.
No, they just saw the DUI Hire's feeble attempt at pull-ups and dismissed him out of hand. Which is fair.
idk what the standards for ranger school are, but the general Army PFT standards are absolutely lower for women. I had a squad leader who got in trouble for mocking an officers accomplishment of a 300+ PT score, to which he said "i would score over 300 too if I only had to do 10 pushup and 20 situps". hes not wrong, but dude pick your battles.
He's wrong because the APFT ten years ago would require a female to do anywhere from 53 to 40 pushups for a 300+ score depending on how old they are, with 40 being for women in their mid 40s..
Not to mention the situps + complete a 2-mile under 15:36
Even now it's close to the same numbers, if not like 5% more challenging. It was never "easy" for average women to get a 300, just like it's not easy for fat asses with tape waivers to get a 300.
You're wrong: https://sites.pitt.edu/~armyrotc/APFTStandards.htm
The minimum for a 21 year old male is 42 push ups - which is a 100 on the female chart.
The slowest two mile time for a 21 year old male gets you a 96 on the female chart - shave twenty seconds and you get a 100.
Situps are the same.
Does the Army still allow females to do modified pushups also?
It’s like how the USMC used to sub out bodyweight hang for time instead of pull-ups for women.
Hanging for time is magnitudes easier than actually doing pull ups.
I was in in the 2000s and I never saw women do modified pushups. If anything but your hands and toes touched the ground you were done.
What's the date on your chart there? Anyway that doesn't make me wrong that makes my point the same. A female didn't get to stop at 20 pushups for 100 score.
In order to get a 100 the female has to do what otherwise would be the minimum.
40 pushups and a 15:59 were minimum passing score for men on the APFT.
That said the ACFT is dogshit easy to pass. Getting a 300 on the ACFT is also a horrible score.
My memory is admittedly hazy on this and I don't even really feel like looking it up but I believe that the female SM standards required more situps than the males did to max the APFT.
Your memory is wrong. Sit-ups were the only event where the passing score for females was the same as males, but to max males still had to do more. It 53 for both to pass, 80 for males to max, 75 for females to max.
The real unfair event was pushups. 42 for males to PASS, 42 for females to max. The army does a lot things wrong and hegseth is a drunk idiot, but moving towards gender neutral standards is a good thing, even if the motives are wrong.
There's a BIG difference between general army PFT requirements and those that are necessary for special units like the rangers, or even regular front-line infantry. General requirements covers everyone, including non-combat roles. I don't care if a female mechanic, pilot, or logistics personnel is held to the same standards as their male counterpart. That's not where their value lies and it would be detrimental to the force to require as such. However, if infantry is required to be able to carry their wounded buddy to safety, that requirement is gender neutral.
first, it's not "dumb down"...it's "double standards"...But Hegseth used the term "watered down". second, Pete Hegseth has repeatedly said that women should generally not serve in ground combat roles. He has said men are more capable in those positions and including women in them decreases 'effectiveness'. He then said that if no women qualify under the male standards, “so be it.” And this is from a guy whose combat experience is a year in iraq--a couple of years AFTER the US invaded and squashed sadaam's army. I didn't google any of this. I'm pulling it from memory of shit I've read a while back but I bet I'm close enough that my points are still valid about this guy. He hasn't walked the walk enough to talk the talk.
Hegseth was an infantry officer without a ranger tab, airborne badge, or air assault badge. That’s unheard of, except among total dirtbags.
I wish i had the power here to make your comment the top comment. This should be all over the news. You know why it's not? Because there are so few journalists who have served in the military. I'm not even in the military but my parents were both Army. Even I know how uncommon it is to not have one of these. It's almost never heard of beyond the rank of lieutenant... and he was beyond that rank. So it's even a worse stat for him. It just helps prove that he was "staff" material and nothing better. I feel so sorry and embarrassed for our military to have this guy in charge of them...and I'm not even military.
Well, Hegseth was in the national guard, not active duty. When you’re only a soldier one weekend a month, the expectations that you will complete those extra schools are lessened somewhat. Now, whether we should put someone who was only a soldier for one weekend a month in charge of the entire military is another question entirely.
Also, he was kicked out for his hate group tattoos. So, you know, not just a pretend soldier, but one that wasn’t even allowed to keep pretending.
That’s not hate on the Guard, by the way. A lot of them do a lot in the military, many do far more real stuff than a lot of active troops. But not that one.
All the officers in my combat brigade were required to be ranger qualified. I was Iowa national guard.
People who have not served don’t understand why and how this makes you an inept officer. He probably served in an S shop.
I believe he was S9- Civil Ops
> He then said that if no women qualify under the male standards,
Hedgseth is an idiot, but if this is true, then they're not "male" standards -- they're universal standards.
In his speech he was being clear that he wants universal standards for combat roles, which he wants to be at the current male standards.
The idiocy of people is believing that every man exists above a line and every woman is below that line.
In Military training 20% of females beat 50% of males, there just wasn't a woman in first second or third, but they were 15 of the top 50, well above plenty of men training along side them.
People also ignore that a lot of the training is aimed at men, there was never over flow, a woman does 120 sit-ups, the points cap out, so a man doing 65 will get the same score but he is gonna win on points for doing ten more push-ups.
"just so women can be included.", we REQUIRE that they are included, we lose every war ever fought throughout history if there was zero woman.
"just so women can be included." what is shithead ass statement.
"just so women can be included."
All the women who have fought for, died for our country, who got there passing a test that wasn't exactly the same as men, should we forget about them? What a terrible, terrible leader.
Ranger School did not create a separate standard for women when they integrated in 2015. https://www.athleticbusiness.com/operations/programming/article/15147139/first-female-army-ranger-school-graduates-set-standard
Ranger school is nearly impossible to complete. She is a badass fo sho
They (training commanders interviewed from several branches I think) were summarized on NPR the other day … saying that every female training for a combat role of any kind is already way exceeding anything dumbass wants to impose. So it’s a non-issue. Also I think I maybe heard an interview (npr?) with this specific champion (Gabrielle) …. And She talks specifically about doing literally everything the guys did in training despite not even having to in some cases …. Her commentary as one would expect is that it has nothing to do with gender and more to do with everyone being able to hack it in order to count on each other in a bad situation. (Which as we know is literally what these people do, go into bad situations) So the vast majority of these folks rose above some culture war gender distraction BS before they even started.
Wtf are you talking about? I think OPs point is pretty obvious... once Hegseth realizes his changes haven't disqualified all women, he'll have a hissy fit and invent some new shit to try and do it again.
Do you actually think OPs title is any way, shape or form a criticism of her??
E: holy fuck this thread is crazyyy... Cant tell if Americans are that ignorant that they can't see the point being made; or if this subs alt-right AF playing defense for the openly misogynist drunk that's on numerous occasions expressed his desire to get women out of any combat role.
The standards for combat roles were never lowered for women. Basic physical fitness standards are age and gender scaled, but if youre going for a certain job (especially in a combat unit, even basic infantry), there is one standard for all. It's been that way since at least 2016. So it begs the question of why he keeps bringing it up.
Counterpoint: Hegseth will say standards aren't stringent enough if a woman can meet them. No matter how rigorous they are.
Exactly!!!
100% exactly right.
Yea, but she’s not a blonde haired, blue eyed, pure aryan muscle daddy, so cLeArLy she isn’t qualified
Thanks for saving me the effort of typing that out. People want to have gotcha moments and dont realize how stupid they sound.
Yeah this is kind of the point everyone against women in combat arms has been making.
Yeah, women exist who can do it. But like, not all of them…
Shit not even all men can do it. It’s a standards thing, not a sexist thing. It’s just something sexist dudes cling onto because they’re dumb
Awesome
This admin is famous for not playing looking at credentials when assuming someone is a DEI hire
Exactly. If she can make it, she can make it.
Happy thanksgiving sir
It’s never been about merit. They’ll move the goalposts.
Finished 14th along with her teammate out of the 16 teams that made it to the final events in April. More than 50 teams competed. Fitness standards for men and women for the Army Ranger school are identical.
Together, they beat out 34 teams just to get to the final. Great job on them!
Being top 100 in pretty much anything is quite an achievement.
I was in the top100 of my class of 95 people
And I'm sure your mom is still very proud of you.
I applaud everyone who serves, but this headline doesn't make any sense.
Out of 52 all male teams.... Is this a team competition or an individual one? Did she compete on a team? Did she finish? Who won?
And what's with the Hegseth reference? You don't want him to single out badasses? Why wouldn't he want the achievements of his troops celebrated? And why make this political? Are you one of those who eats, sleeps, and breathes a seething hatred? Orange man bad and so is over half the voting population?
According to Google, there were 52 teams of two and she placed 14th with her male teammate. Hegseth has said that he isn't against women in the military, he's against lowering standards to allow more women to qualify. It appears that this 1st Lt competed under the same standards as everyone else, so I don't know why he'd care.
He also says he is against women in ground combat roles.
There are JAGs in the 75th that have to pass RASP. Not every Ranger is combat arms.
Why is that wrong?
Because the military is already having MAJOR trouble reaching their recruiting goals for years now. Also the Ukrainian and russian war has been a good case study of how modern warfare actually works. This isn't the 1400s where people are fighting with swords. It's all basically technology with drones, guns etc. I think I heard that the person who now holds the most sniper kills is a woman in the Ukrainian military.
So yea... Unless people can't carry things or run at a good speed there should be no issue with women joining a modern military
The actual quote is "Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world."
Pete has repeatedly said women don't belong in war fighter positions. Being a ranger is certainly a step in that direction. Get over that nonsense tds/magads and let the actual reality set in. Women have been more than capable of killing a man. I'm willing to be wild Petey would lose to quite a few of them. Dude was a major. Just a major. He has no qualifications to be what he is and where he is. He belongs on a shitty Saturday morning talk show, bitchin bout woke bs. If we were talking bout dei still that lil dude would be the picture reference for the dictionary.
TDS! Lmao, these people need to get a life!
I'm a bit confused. Doesn't this prove Hegseth's point that women are not able to perform to the same standard as men when it comes to competitions based on raw strength? After all, only one women has ever made it all the way. I am assuming women are allowed to compete, right? They just struggle to complete it. Wasn't Hegseth saying we shouldn't make the competition easier so more women can complete it?
Or, am I missing something?
(Edit: to add. really wish I hadn't needed to post this comment, and instead I could have just celebrated a badass woman doing something awesome. But, OP needed to make a lame political-points winning remark that sadly doesn't, to me at least, make any logical sense. And I'm a liberal!)
Performance ceilings are an interesting thing. After one person breaks it, more tend to follow in suit, until eventually their entire cohort is elevated to a similar standard.
Sometimes all it takes is the knowledge that a feat is possible to completely shift the thinking in younger people and encourage them to strive to for a similar position.
I feel like this more often than not isn't the case. The biggest counter-example I can think of is chess, where not even Judit Polgár being in top 10 has opened the gates, and currently there are no women in the top 100.
I would argue that that really isn’t a counterexample.
First, one of the biggest barriers for women playing chess is lack of support, except Judit and her sisters were a chess experiment taught by their IM father from a young age who was already respected in the chess community.
Secondly, there’ve been only three women who’ve ever been in the open Top 100, and I believe both of those came after Judit’s reign (Hou Yifan is one of them and would’ve likely been higher if she didn’t retire early). It’s going to take a bit before there’s a large cohort of girls inspired by Judit in the top 100, much like it took until now for a lot of the Vishy-inspired Indian prodigies to make it to the top level.
Third is that chess and honestly the world as a whole is still a pretty misogynistic place. Any woman who plays OTB chess consistently can tell you about it, and it’s likely the biggest contributor to the lack of women reaching those higher tiers of chess. Abuse is still unfortunately common and overlooked by chess authorities, just look at the recent Jennifer Shahade USCF case.
That’s easier to reach past these issues when you have a well-respected IM father backing you, and even then only one Polgar sister ever made it to the top 100 (apparently not even the most talented one).
There’s also the purported tendency for women to be less hard headed and stubborn to professionally compete in a game as unforgiving as chess is. The same brain power that could painstakingly etch out a chess career could also be used to have an easier and more profitable career in a STEM field.
Apologies for the word wall, this is just something I’m super passionate about, and I’m still hopeful for more women in the top 100 in the coming decades.
Women have only been allowed to even attempt the Army ranger course to become a ranger officially since 2015. That doesn't say anything about their challenges around the entire "boys club" culture and people who hold views like Hegseth that women in general aren't fit for roles like Ranger that could be approving or denying them for different opportunities like Ranger school in a completely biased way. To make note of the person in the post being the first woman to compete in the 10 years that has even been possible is totally valid because the selection for the competition is internally within a unit and not some objective scoring system of who is the "Best Ranger". If only ~150 or so women have become rangers since they were first allowed it is not surprising that a small number of that would want to compete in the competition and some number of those that want to compete would be rejected by their leadership for various invalid and valid reasons ranging from sexism bias to not being the preferred candidate for logical reasons.
Out of the 52 teams that competed in the competition Lt. White and her teammate were one of only 16 to complete it which means women have a 100% completion rate of the competition while men have a large failure rate with only about 33% completing this time around. Those stats are basically meaningless because your assumption is that women struggle to complete it even though this is the first time they've even got to try and compete for it and I wanted to highlight how lacking context your assertion is.
You're missing the part where Hegseth is dogwhistling about women not being fit for the military (not just this for fun competition like you're saying), he has said "designated combat arms position, returns to the highest male standard only... If women can make it, excellent. If not, it is what it is." which if you took out the word "male" and made the second part gender neutral would sound pretty logical overall that there should be a set standard and if you meet it then you qualify and if not then you don't. Except it wasn't gender neutral but was intentionally singling out female soldiers and implying they are unfit for combat roles even though the standards for combat roles are not lowered for female soldiers already and have been gender neutral standards for combat roles since the '90s. Again it's just misogynistic dogwhistling about "male superiority" which is accompanied with him at the same time doing things like removing exemptions for religious and medical reasons to not have a tight shave which disproportionately affects POC soldiers, especially African Americans that get bad ingrown hairs and other issues if they get too close of a shave. So if you're curious why people say he is misogynistic and racist it is probably because those people listened to the words he said.
Your question is a good one, I'm not sure I can answer it succinctly, but I'll try.
A lack of evidence is not evidence, and extrapolation is not an answer.
Pete Hegseth insisted this was impossible because it hadn't been done. Imagine thinking this way about curing infectious diseases. Just because we haven't cured a disease doesn't mean we can't. If we believe we can't because we haven't, then we definitely won't. Now imagine thinking that women can't cure infectious diseases because they haven't. That's how scientists used to think, and it kept women out of stem fields.
Just because women haven't competed or passed this test is not evidence that they can't. It is entirely possible that the answer is as simple as women don't want to hang out with a bunch of guys like Pete Hegseth. The observable phenomenon may not have anything to do with women's physical capabilities.
I have heard SecWar speak many times via Youtube, and when I see short-clips where he says anything about female service members, I go watch the full clip, and Pete's very clear and consistent stance is that standards should be formed to the job. Women, as a rule, are not passing the rigerous requirements for tougher programs, and standards should not be lowered to allow them, or weaker men, in. Because this is such a 99.9% true fact, it's not out of place to say Women should not be on the tip of the spear. The one or two that can, SecWar has no problem with, they meet the standard.
Because Pete is a sexist who doesn’t want women in the military, it’s pretty easy to sort out when you don’t pretend to be obtuse.
It's not a point that needs proving in the first place. When both are at their peak, men will outperform women 100 times out of a 100. There isn't even a margin for error, it's going to be a landslide. Hence why all sports are gendered, it wouldn't be fair to female athletes otherwise.
But somehow the military got under fire for sticking with this objective and undeniable truth.
not in ultra-endurance sports like ultra marathons.
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There are other sources in google that say "COMPETE" and others that say "COMPLETE". Don't fall into the trap of believing your first source. Everyone in this post is rushing off to google to see if they can bash this title, this woman, or OP......but I learned a long time ago on reddit that a title of a post is often found the exact same way somewhere else and that's why OP used it. Sure enuf, looks like I was right about this one, too.
CBS and NBC news said she was the first to compete. The New York Time said the same. Also, in the same article you linked to, which you obviously did not bother to read, it literally says COMPETE. edit Your comment is removed for misinformation.
https://preview.redd.it/m4hvow2mlm3g1.png?width=954&format=png&auto=webp&s=b9b7cdeb36e51ea1b1e7dd1858e5d9dc98b8a74e
This article is also wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/f0tclc8gpm3g1.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=276e4e37549be5e1e41c0d65e70ab34ddadc9b94
Thanks for this lmao
My cousin is actually married to one of the first female rangers. Dudes almost as useless as me, tho. Military nepo babies are wild.
I am confusion. Was his mom also in the military or is this an Alabama situation?
He's not a "nepo baby"; he's a male base bunny.
I mean, out of 52 teams and there's only one woman fit to compete? Yes it's cool but that does kind of demonstrate his point exactly.
What a badass, accomplished warrior! 🫡💪. Thank you for your service, Lt. White. Keep kicking ass and being such an amazing soldier!
Her and her teammate finished 14th out of 52
"If women can make it, excellent. If not, it is what it is," he said on Tuesday. "If that means no women qualify for some combat jobs, so be it. That is not the intent, but it could be the result."
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/hegseths-military-fitness-rules-women-servicemembers/story?id=126188813
she’s a certified badass, but also an extreme outlier
Friggin insanely awesome
she proves hegseth right. she proves that you dont need to lower standards for females.
Yeah! The standards are clearly too high and we should lower them arbitrarily so unfit women can enter and die whilst getting others killed in the process. Yay equality! /S 🙄. If she can pass the standard that men are put to she is an outlier and deserves to be there. Congrats to her. This is combat not carpentry. You can’t just set a goal of 50/50 men and women. It really should just be the strongest people possible which is going to be 99 percent men let’s be real.
Hegseth would praise her and be glad she did it. I don't know why you think otherwise.
I can't believe we're still fucking arguing about this. How unbelievably pathetic that we just want to close our eyes shove our head in the sand and ignore reality as it is.
Congratulations Lt White !
👏 more 👏 female 👏 war 👏 criminals
Lol so glad im not the only one that thought of this😂
They’ll claim DEI… I hate to say it
Hegseth is the poster-child for fragile masculinity. He needs to learn to keep his closeted mouth shut.
https://preview.redd.it/uudn4zqn2n3g1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b36e6f2ddc953544ddbbd3878a9c9bd92ca5ccc
I’m a veteran of the Army airborne and I know the criminal trump and his thugs must be stopped from further destruction of our country and its democratic principles.
She just looks like a badass
What a foolish comment. She competing with the best because she is amongst the best Rangers and not because of some stupid DEI rule. She’s a badass.
Lead the way LT lead the way
As an infantry officer, Hegseth couldn't pass Ranger School... or Airborne School...or Air Assault School. All of those should be prerequisites for an infantry officer.
He should slink back under his desk. Fairly sure his commanders and subordinates viewed his few accomplishments as uninspiring.
Whiskey leaks couldn’t finish this if he tried
But did she finish/win?
Pete Hegseth would be the first to congratulate her.
That picture with the sweat coming off of her chin is pretty awesome. It kind of reads like I know what the heck I’m doing and I’m great at it and I’m a bad to the bone.
That’s definitely water
Oh dang! I thought that was water!
Oh wow I better join the military!!!
Why can we not just be happy for her? Gotta be some petty bullshit brought into every headline.
what's petty about it? anyway, op knew what he was doing...it's engagement bait....and a good one. The only petty I see are in the comments, and that's impossible to avoid on Reddit when discussing politics.
Muril moment, hell yeah
That's Lewis Hamilton
Happens in 2025 of April. Her team finished 14th.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2025/04/14/soldier-becomes-first-woman-to-compete-in-best-ranger-competition/
Fitness standards for combat service should be agnostic of gender. If this badass can meet the standards, more power to her!
Hegseth would probably say she must be trans or some shit
That's badass
Props to any woman who can meet the standards.
If she can stand her own with those guys, which is EXACTLY the point Hegseth is trying to make, whether you agree with him or not, that means she is an absolute beast of a soldier and deserves to be there.
Did she pass all the requirements?! Then fuck yeh let’s go! That’s one bad ass woman!
She looks like lewis Hamilton
You discount her success by even acknowledging she is a woman. Why couldn't she just be successful as a person. I would bet $1 million that if you asked her if you could use her image and story for your little post you would have been met with a cold blank stare. Same as what most people you encounter in life give you.
Is she a Ranger, or just tabbed?
Cool either way, just curious.
Wasn’t the whole Hegseth thing like 3 seasons ago?
If a female can pass the standards as they are laid out equally across the board then I say let them have whatever reward accolades and let him do whatever they need to do.
They earned it
Now this is good news! Thanks for your hard work. In 3 years she will go down in history. I promise.
Lewis Hamilton is that you?
If she can pull a grown man in full gear to safety, I don't care about anything else.
Oh I hope he *does* see it.
Can anyone explain what on earth this means to this non-American, please? No idea what a Ranger is, or who Hegseth is lol.
The standard for combat should be standard. Regardless of gender. Good for her
So Pete was correct. Interesting.
She reminds me of nadine Ross from uncharted
https://preview.redd.it/2uxr3n7elr5g1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a0c601c43925f7df61b5ebc48f0971f4e3e6e70
Uh, you’re literally making Pete Hegseth’s point. She’s the exceptional solider who meets or exceeds the baseline standard. Precisely what he’s going for, right?