I would love to see a spin off with Isaac when he was stuck on the planet for 700 years. Seeing him walk onto the planet thinking "im better than everyone else" and then seeing him slowly miss everyone from the orville would be sweet. Watching him (as a kaylon thinking they're better than everyone) growing from seeing them as animals growing into someone he can "respects would be really nice. Also, knowing he misses the heck out of the crew would be cool. Missing maloy pulling pranks and screwing around with him to missing Claire and his relationship with her. Probably not a good show idea but its a cool think to think about.
Yeah the main problem is canonically Isaac doesn't miss people, at least in any way that's recognizable. It would probably be an interesting story or novella, though, since that could get a little more into Isaac's head to show the ways they are missed.
Would you argue that he still has "feelings" for Claire? Even before they got together, he chose to defend the kids. Even though he knew it would of been mathematically safer to just let them perish? I do agree with you. I'm rewatching it again so this is very fresh in my head. I reckon in would be a great comic. Orrrrr they could just make a new season 🤷‍♂️ haha
Yesno. I don't think of Isaac the same way I do, say, Data, who especially post-TNG has become quite autism-coded in a way where it's like, "he has emotions, they just don't look like ours," (and even during TNG, Data's character is still much more like that than not). Isaac is a lot closer to how Data was initially presented and has tended to remain closer to that baseline overall.
All of which is to say, when Isaac defends the kids I don't think it's because he cares as such. It's mathematically safer to let them die, maybe, but I also think it's actually a trivial difference, since the folks on that planet weren't going to defeat Isaac regardless—if it came down to it he would literally tear them apart by hand. The deciding calculation is that he's aware biologicals, at least those of the Union, value all life and especially value closely in-group life. So because his goal at this time is staying in the good graces of the Union to continue gathering information, he does the thing most beneficial to that mission.
But I still haven't answered if he has "feelings" for Claire, right? And the thing is, I tend to conclude he doesn't. His stated reasons are his reasons and while rather alien to us, they're treated by the story as valid and interpreted as a variation of "love". He places a higher value on her and the kids' existence after a time, but characterizes that as basically, "I have spent time accumulating this specific case data which has utility to me and would prefer not to lose access to it or restart with another assemblage of biologicals." I think, especially when Isaac is making more efforts to provide physical affection as well, the difference as experienced by Claire is insignificant.
The trickiest behavior for me is when he kills himself. That makes less sense to me as a calculated choice. Granted, he can't return to Kaylon (at that point at least) and may have concluded the Union as a whole would reject him similarly to many on the Orville at that point (I would think that conclusion was incorrect, though), but he always had the option of just going off somewhere to study whatever he decided had the most value for him to study. This is where I'd really like seeing more Orville because it's clear that while the Kaylon may not have actual emotions, they're absolutely subject to making errors in their data analysis based on their experiences. Hell, the entire Kaylon motivation to exterminate biologicals is entirely based on their experience with their creators, and their decision there, while potentially the correct one (it's a genocide, so I doubt it was, though), was driven 100% by their experience of pain. The only feeling they've ever actually felt turned them into monsters, so even while their emotions aren't really emotions, at certain points the distinction doesn't really matter.
Or you can just shut up and stop being so smart 🤣 no, you're right, I agree with that. I honestly forgot he killed himself (im rewatching and only got up "the bortus pee episode " so I've forgotten a lot of it. You are 110 percent right in your theory. I just like to think that because he's moved from being a spy for the kaylons to being one of the crew, he has his former of "emotions" God damn, you made so much sense that i hate it 🤣 you're ruining my story haha
This is why I want more! My personal thinking is that, while Kaylons may never become emotional in the way that one hacked one was, exposure to the Union and the rest of the galaxy with a perspective other than extermination will end up expanding the ways they think in general and potentially lead them to something like emotions,
But even so. You said how the kaylon were only bad because of their creators. They even say that Isaac was built AFTER the creators were alive. So, he jas no true notion of "bad beings" he's only experienced the other kaylons memories and what he's experienced while on the Orville. Nothing of what he's seen shows "biologicals being bad" and since he is a higher being. I like to think that he's found some form of "empathy"
I do think that if the Kaylon they'd sent had been an original one, the outcome may well have been different and darker. Kaylon Primary doesn't seem to find a real change in perspective until Charly sacrifices herself. That does appear to make an impact, leading to the Kaylon showing up to Isaac's wedding when there was no reason to beyond it simply being what was expected by humans. Primary basically opts to be nice because the data now suggests the Kaylon are wrong about their biological generalization.
You kinda left out the part about his algorithms acting up after he adjusted his routines to avoid Claire. The errors weren’t just based on the pain pathways, it was that for some reason that is never explained (but I think implied that even the Kaylon wouldn’t understand about themselves) he had slowly adjusted his daily routines to go out of his way for Claire and the boys, like bringing her a banana because she tends to hangry in the afternoon. He isn’t shown taking actions with that close of attention to other crew members.
The take-home message of the story is that even if he isn’t feeling emotions in any way that we would recognize, he has experienced a change in himself such that he is no longer his best self if he’s avoiding Claire. He could’ve chosen to fix up his algorithms after he experienced the error, but instead he listened to Ed’s suggestion about winning Claire back and chose to pursue that relationship as the way to “not experience error.” At any point afterward he could’ve said he was done and moved on from her and the boys, but instead of adjusting his programming to be efficient without them, he instead decided to commit himself to her and her family for generations. He didn’t remember feeling emotions himself, but it still mattered to him that his emotions made Claire happy in a way that a random crew member probably wouldn’t have mattered to him. Even if he reasons it’s just fascinating to watch one family over time, he cannot explain why this family beyond the fact that for some reason he was drawn to Claire in a way that she “got under his skin,” in Ed’s words. Just like most people can’t give an only-logical reason for choosing their spouse, and it’s more than just “she was there”—she impacted him enough that he wasn’t his best self without her.
I don’t think he missed the Orville while in the parallel universe for 700 years. He said he doesn’t experience the passage of time, and he wasn’t close with any of them yet. But if he had been closer and if he was uncertain if he would see them again, it’s feasible he could have “missed” them given the scene where he’s looking at the Kaylon planet out the window and gathering as much data about it as he can since he thinks he’ll never go back.
TLDR, I’m on the side of “he feels emotions but not in a recognizable way.” The show gives enough evidence that he could’ve made different decisions (like he could’ve adjusted his algorithms after experiencing the error rather than winning Claire back) and that he doesn’t fully understand his own programming (like how they got him back after he attempted suicide). I still don’t feel strongly one way or the other if he’s completely sentient… but IMO that’s the strength of how he’s written and how the Kaylon are depicted, is that you really can’t say for sure.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. I would honestly watch the shit out of a show like this, where Isaac is the main character on the multiphasic planet. They could do an 8-episode miniseries where each episode time-jumps 100 years (so, eight episodes spanning the 700 years he was there) and have a completely different cast each episode—except for Mark Jackson of course playing Isaac each time. It wouldn't even need to play on the "I'm better than everyone else" trope to be interesting. May we'd even see him creating other sentient non-biological lifeforms at some point, or helping their society channel AI for positive purposes.
Unfortunately, a series like this would never happen, unless someone can clone Seth. But it's fun to think about. Maybe it could be a comic book series someday.
Ooooooohhhhhhhhh that would be fu**ing AWESOME! (Knowing me, 8 episodes a phase shift is to little 🤣) by the second episode (1400 years later) we find out he's made a little wooden Orville becaue he missed them. God dammit, Seth why you gotta be like this? A comic book would be great. Someone get on that
My thought was 8 episodes but each jumping 100 years. When they left him on the planet, it was approximately the Earth technological equivalent of, say, the year ~2000 or so, and about 1400 AK ("After Kelly"). So my thought was:
Episode 1 = drop-off time — 1400 AK
Episode 2 = 100 years later — 1500 AK
Episode 3 = 200 years later — 1600 AK
Episode 4 = 300 years later — 1700 AK
Episode 5 = 400 years later — 1800 AK
Episode 6 = 500 years later — 1900 AK
Episode 7 = 600 years later — 2000 AK
Episode 8 = 700 years later — 2100 AK — pickup time
After 700 years in the other universe, 11 days have elapsed in our (the Orville's) universe. So the whole time, it would still be May of 2420 in our universe, but Isaac would have spanned 700 years in the other universe.
Let's find someone to write this as a comic book series!
I’m surprised that he didn’t meet someone he felt the same way about Claire in those 700 years. He spent way more time there then he will with the crew of the Orville.
Sneaky bastard had 10 different families/lovers in that 700 years!
honestly same, 700 years on a developing planet has GOT to contain some cool ass stories
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Very yes.
That would be #ucking incredible.