Some would argue there's no redemption arc since he's a rapist but this is a tv series so I'd say even the 1st degree murderers can get one if they try.
I mean that’s dumb logic, if a rapist shouldn’t get a redemption arc someone who’s murdered dozens of innocent people and you know partially helped with facilitating the overthrow of democracy (A-train) also shouldn’t be redeemed
Where did A-Train murder "dozens" of innocent people? At most, he's killed 3, one (possibly two) were accidental and the other because Homelander forced him to do it
I do think it makes some sense because rape is generally a 1st or 2nd degree act. They have time to think it over and decide ultimately to pull it. It's rarely on a lower degree and never accidental.
BUT (before I lose you) I will say that in a story it should work to get a redemption arc for it yeah. Even if these crimes are horrible, In stories we like seeing where horrible people go.
They are both sex offenders, murderers and Homelander sycophants… it’s a bit hard.
The Deep is a repeat abuser, but Firecracker statutory raped a kid.
Eeeeeeeeh I’m going for the Deep, slightly. If anything because during last season he seemed to revel more and more in his depravity, whereas Firecracker seems closer to simply snap for either the pressure or whatever meds she is taking.
I think neither are able to, nor are they worthy of, redemption.
However, in some ways The Deep will feel more redeemable. He's portrayed as being a bit of an idiot and nearly all of his actions are on a more personal level. He was even given opportunities for redemption as a result of this, but was both too scared of Homelander and his own inner demons, and was too self-serving to do the right thing.
Whereas, Firecracker's actions are mostly rooted in her being a bigoted, hatemonger that wants to use her connections and station to spread her ideology and agenda, whilst also being a hypocrite and a diddler on top of that. There's just no way we can ever feel like she's capable of redemption.
Firecracker seems to be compelled by the knowledge that her future actions will certainly cause harm. I can't imagine a version of her that ever wants to be redeemed.
Deep might at least attempt to be a better person if he thought there was any benefit to it.
He does things despite the harm it causes. She does things in favour of the harm it causes.
Gurl if anything Firecracker has more of a motive because of what Starlight did to her when they were young it doesn't excuse her behaviour and her um past but deep is too far gone
Remember: Firecracker hinted at knowing things about Starlight, and in S5, she will most likely air out how she joined the 7. She's just petty enough to follow through with it.
I have a feeling I'd feel kind of bad for Firecracker if she didn't have powers and wasn't hot, she'd just be some sad abused trailer trash kid. I feel like Deep's brain has hit its peak and is incapable of moving forward. At least he cares about the ocean I guess. She doesn't seem to care about anything.
I mean, on the flipside of that, Deep regularly engages in bestiality... I don’t have a definitive answer for you about whether that is better or worse, but I’d say that even her relations with a minor don’t 100% put Firecracker below Deep.
Animals in the boys universe seems to be able to give concent. (Unless the Deep mind control powers are much stronger then we thought AND he has schizophrenia)
Remember, Deep is the ONLY human able to communicate with sea creatures, so when he brings those creatures home with him, his is isolating them from anyone else that could understand them and grooming them to love him and rely on him.
So while the situation seems consensual, I would argue that Deep has groomed these creatures into relationships they otherwise wouldn’t consent to.
You know I was going to say that we know his relationship is very much consensual because we can hear what Deep hears. But I mean the characters in the show only have his word to rely on and he is a known rapists in their universe. So what would make them believe that he tells them that the relationship is consensual.
Nah. While I hate a rapist pedo as much as any sane person, I pity those with immoral feelings like that. They don’t decide how they feel, but they do decide how they act.
Firecracker is more irredeemable IMO. She has no problem spewing her Fox News propaganda to rile up the base and cause civil unrest, and she’s said she knows she’s selling bullshit. The Deep is just an idiot taking advantage of his station where Firecracker is actively damaging the fabric of society.
True, but I think about it less in terms of what they’ve already done and more about their likelihood to do any introspection/think about anyone but themselves and they’re both pretty self absorbed
in terms on how they'll continue to grow? Deep is worse, time and time again he rejected redemption and digs a growing hole that he'll never see the other side of
She’s a pedo and it’s unforgivable what she did to Annie by exposing her abortion in S4, resulting in the tides turning against Annie, but much of it stems from childhood resentment against Annie.
That doesn’t mean her pedophilia is forgiven, though. That’s on her.
The Deep is irredeemable however, period. He’s a rapist and a creep too. And having Annie fellate him and getting away with it is proof that he is a multiple offender.
"When she was 28 years old, Firecracker worked as a Counselor at the Capes in Davie, Florida. While working there, she engaged in sexual relations with a 15-year-old boy, in an incident that was caught on camera, though Vought were able to use their resources to drop Firecracker's statutory charges and sweep the incident under the rug."
He may never fix his karmic balance sheet. But redemption isn't about whether you've managed to do more good than bad over the course of your life. It's about abandoning evil and self-interest and instead fighting for the good of others. He's already crossed that line.
There’s a big difference in your last point. Absolutely consequences matter, but A-Train never seemed to enjoy killing at all. He’s always had a greater capacity for good than The Deep and a ceiling to his evil.
Firecracker, because as horrible as they both are, Deep at least makes me feel bad for him sometimes. Then I remember he's a fuckin' creep and sex predator.
As fucked up as attraction to a 15 year old is, Firecracker doesn't have the same malice or sadism behind her actions. Beyond the grudge she holds towards Annie from childhood, she's largely a useful idiot/true believer in Homelander's public persona and thinks she's doing the right thing. As a result, she has the potential to recognize the true danger behind Homelander's mental instability and work against it.
The Deep is just a stupid sadistic little man that only acts out of self-interest and self-preservation while enjoying a variety of predatory acts. Since The Deep understands what he's doing and doesn't care about the broader implications, he's incapable of redemption.
Considering the conversation Firecracker had with Sage, Im pretty sure Firecracker isn’t an idiot nor does she think she’s doing the right thing. Maybe her thing. But I don’t think she deludes herself that much into her beliefs.
Like she knows what she’s spewing is nonsense. Sure she can say giving hope and inspiring people but she knows it’s nonsense and she knows she doesn’t actually care about her fans. Even before she got on television. She is a Homelander believer who’s in way over her head. There’s also the fact that she’s pretty much on the weaker side of the Seven and can be easily replaced.
Deep despite his idiocy, is Aquaman. He’s not that replaceable power wise. But I do agree with most of what you said.
Firecracker has a limit. Lines she does not and probably can not cross. But she lets herself be dragged across. Until she puts her foot down or like ATrain feeds the other side knowledge, she’s not going to be redeemed.
Redemption is a possibility. Not total redemption but something. But does she want that?
Deep clearly doesn’t. And I’m kind of glad he won’t ever get one. If he did, I’d feel like that’s poor writing.
yeah I think part of what makes Firecracker bad is that she knows it's all bullshit
unlike Stormfront she doesn't believe in what she preaches, which makes her a really good Store Value Stormfront, imo (even in the way she wants Homelander but he doesn't want her)
See this is the comment I was looking for. A lot of people are like, well Firecracker is this and that, and I’m like…doesn’t she tell Sage she really doesn’t believe in what she peddles? She figured out it was a way to get attention; people were feeing lost and disconnected and this is what she figured out “brought them together”. I’m not saying that wipes her slate clean and makes her a good person, it just makes her bad in a different way. If that makes sense…😂
Its hard to say, while Deep is responsivle for more direct violence, Firecracker is likely more responsible for more violence in general via stochastic terrorism.
I tend to forgive deep more because he seems like he might actually be mentally handicapped in some way. Reminds me of how gang members select people they can't take advantage of and get loyalty of of them.
Firecracker had sex with a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD as a 28 year old woman. This was while she was a camp counselor, and she felt zero remorse and even joked about the situation afterwards. She also directly feeds into Homelanders fetish. Shes extremely racist, sexist, homophobic. You just know if Firecracker had real powers she'd use them to kill minorities and just do evil depraved shit.
Deep is a POS as well but his crimes are nothing compared to the shit Firecracker does. Shes more comparable with trump or epstein, being a literal pedophile and proud of it. People say Deeps a rapist but so is Firecracker, you cant consent under 16 in literally any US state and shes twice the age of the kid, I mean come on.
Edit: If Firecracker was a male people would be begging the creators to kill her off... There isn't a single male main character on the show who openly rapes minors, even fuckin Homelander wouldnt do that. If Firecracker was a near 30 male having sex with a 15 yr old girl pitchforks would be coming out, people are just blinded by titties and ass. Thats the entire point of her character
imo the deep. He has had many opportunities to grow and become better and he always chooses the morally wrong thing. He's a foil to A Train, who also reached rock bottom and has decided to fight against Vought and Homelander.
What really did it for me was when he let the octopus die.
Fire cracker has been showing cracks early on that she isn't 100% on board and she's trying to make a better life for herself.
Deep at least genuinely cares for sea creatures, and had to be psychologically broken by Homelander to get on board with the Homelander agenda. He's a trash person anyway and this is in no way an excuse for his behavior, but he's at least capable of caring about something and of doing something because it's right in extremely specific circumstances, and there are at least psychological scars responsible for his worst actions (again, not to defend them).
Firecracker actively and loudly spews hate, backstabs people gleefully, her only explained motivation is revenge on her high school nemesis from like a decade ago for beating her at pageants, she hitches her wagon to Homelander completely voluntarily to the point of giving herself an extremely dangerous drug cocktail that shortened her life expectancy to ingratiate herself to him completely unprompted, and she was pushing abhorrent positions long before coming into contact with him.
Deep, by far. He was already lost after assaulting Starlight in the first season and not really giving a shit about it since then. Although I still hate Firecracker a whole lot too.
Deep had a redemption chance and chose to continue being evil. Firecracker might have a moment of self reflection in the future and realize how petty she’s being. There’s a tiny chance she’ll do the decent thing and better herself, but I doubt it. Still, more of a chance than Deep.
Neither deserve redemption for all the fucked up shit they've been party to. Sometimes a villain is just a villain.
Sex crimes are the type of crime you can't just wash away. They irrevocably change their victims, and I personally don't think most crimes are the type of stuff you can get out of a person just by locking them up. Maybe if they receive years of therapy they can repress being a monster, but that monster is always present.
Both should die IMO. Neither has any redeeming features.
But Firecracker is fairly powerless…..she has no real ability to -hurt- someone other than words and/or PR stunts. The Deep has some abilities to do so. And he’s proven himself to be all about serving his needs and using others (even animals) to do so at will. Firecracker will use others, of course, but she has no real power to force her will on others.
I suspect Homelander will at some point just flat out eye-fuck Firecracker when she coughs at a bad time again. He knows how weak she is. The Deep….he’s a tool that can still be used.
She's exploitative,cutthroat, and extremely petty. She lives up to her name. Count on her running Starlight through the worst of it, especially knowing she can't "swallow her pride".
No opinion other than just how massively homelander’s crew reminds us of trump’s. It’s just so obvious and out there and more people should call it out.
Probably Deep. Deep is a repeated grapist, Firecracker as far as we are aware, only graped that 15 year old. Both of them were seen killing vought employees at the end of Season 4, but The Deep took more pleasure in it.
Firecracker also has a more tragic backstory, being bullied mercilessly by other Pageant Queens and a Young Annie, while it seems the Deep had better formative years, joining the Seven sooner, as well as being a storied member of Vought Academy and a soirety president. The guy gives the vibe of an idiot who has managed to fall upwards.
Deep and it isn't close. As an example, Firecracker seemed horrified when Homelander ripped Web Weaver in half. Deep on the other hand was getting off to murdering Vaught employees. Firecrackers a piece of shit too, but she has not sunk to the same levels of cruelty that the Deep has. Deep is as bad as Homelander at this point.
The Deep, not even a question. The guy is a sadistic rapist with no sentiments who had a chance of becoming better but was so selfish and a POS of a human being that he just became worse.
I feel like the Deep. Firecracker did have sex with a minor (WHICH ISNT SOMETHING ANYONE SHOULD DO) but from my guess that was at least SOMEWHAT consensual. The Deep full on used his status as a member of the Seven to RAPE Annie and despite somewhat getting raped himself and “trying” to redeem himself he’s still fallen further into irredeemability like some sort of Sisyphus paradox.
Both are almost impossible... But last thing I remember about S4 is that firecracker was left speechless when homelander brutally killed webweaver... Maybe even someone like her can comprehend siding with homelander is not smart
The Deep by a long shot. He has gone from frat bro doofus to snivelling sociopath.
Firecracker is equally bad but if any of the two were to have a "hero" moment, it would be her. Like a moment of realisation that she is being used and she turns against Sage and Homelander.
Are we just forgetting that the Deep is a straight up murderer? Like he's killed innocent civilians. The closest Firecracker has does was shoot Kimiko in the head.
Firecracker only because she’s smart enough to know how terrible she is. She’s a horrible person that doesn’t deserve it and a rapist. That being said the deep is too dumb to know why everyone hates him.
I’d say the deep bc there are moments of humanity where you can tell he’s aware for just a brief second, then goes back under and I feel like that’s a worst fate
The Deep is a freak, who am I to yuck his yum. Actually, he’s done multiple crimes but blah blah blah. Firecracker is a white supremacist, fascist, freak, pedo, and nazi.
I’m personally gonna say firecracker, but I can see arguments for The Deep
Both of them are rapists. Both of them are okay with other people being mistreated, maybe even murdered, so long as they’re not in the line of fire. Both of them are horrible, irredeemable pieces of shit, and I hope they both die in the worst ways imaginable.
While I personally feel both are pretty well beyond, I have a feeling Deep will end up crossing Homelander and die trying to stop him. Though the last season he kind of went off the rails a bit near the end. Maybe some sense can be talked into him, like a less redeemable ATrain
Neither of them 💀 but if I had to say, probably Firecracker they’re both irredeemable and guilty of most of the same crimes, except firecracker assaulted a minor. But I would have to say she’s probably more capable just because, Deep has shown genuinely no remorse, empathy, or even higher critical thinking of his actions. While Firecracker started cracking after a couple weeks as HL lackey.
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Deep's too dumb to redeem a promo code.
He actively had the option to press NG+ and start a redemption arc and chose the opposite
Lmao this is such a funny and accurate way of describing it.
its why the deep is great, he is actively trying to be the literal worst.
Homelander is crazy, was a lab rat, you know, he's too crazy to be responsible for what he's doing.
The Deep has made a cold, calculating decision, he has consciously, cooly, after much reflection, decided to be a complete ass.
I don’t think it was too calculated…
He clearly makes up one side of the bell curve
It's a good thing he spends half his time underwater, his poor braincell would fry if he tried calculating without gallons to cool it down.
Dude’s the epitome of “I took a calculated risk, but man am I bad at math”
Well, to be honest, the deep grew up in a world where people were screaming for their lives as others ate them at least from his point of view
100%. In that regard I actually respect the writers. They just wanted to have a total scumbag. He's completely irredeemable
It was kinda funny when they teased a redemption arc to him, but just flipped it and gave it to A-train instead.
yeah, one of the more clever things they did I think, also fuck A-Train though he's a pos, but still surprised me.
Some would argue there's no redemption arc since he's a rapist but this is a tv series so I'd say even the 1st degree murderers can get one if they try.
I mean that’s dumb logic, if a rapist shouldn’t get a redemption arc someone who’s murdered dozens of innocent people and you know partially helped with facilitating the overthrow of democracy (A-train) also shouldn’t be redeemed
Where did A-Train murder "dozens" of innocent people? At most, he's killed 3, one (possibly two) were accidental and the other because Homelander forced him to do it
Oh just murder. No big deal...he murdered his gf, and got Annie's ex killed. Tried to kill Hughie, possibly twice
It's not accidental anymore if you laugh about it with your drug buddies afterwards.
I do think it makes some sense because rape is generally a 1st or 2nd degree act. They have time to think it over and decide ultimately to pull it. It's rarely on a lower degree and never accidental.
BUT (before I lose you) I will say that in a story it should work to get a redemption arc for it yeah. Even if these crimes are horrible, In stories we like seeing where horrible people go.
Deep the type of guy to start a new playthrough in Baldurs Gate 3 and select all the same choices in the first playthrough.
Do nooot redeeeeem!!
They are both sex offenders, murderers and Homelander sycophants… it’s a bit hard.
The Deep is a repeat abuser, but Firecracker statutory raped a kid.
Eeeeeeeeh I’m going for the Deep, slightly. If anything because during last season he seemed to revel more and more in his depravity, whereas Firecracker seems closer to simply snap for either the pressure or whatever meds she is taking.
I think neither are able to, nor are they worthy of, redemption.
However, in some ways The Deep will feel more redeemable. He's portrayed as being a bit of an idiot and nearly all of his actions are on a more personal level. He was even given opportunities for redemption as a result of this, but was both too scared of Homelander and his own inner demons, and was too self-serving to do the right thing.
Whereas, Firecracker's actions are mostly rooted in her being a bigoted, hatemonger that wants to use her connections and station to spread her ideology and agenda, whilst also being a hypocrite and a diddler on top of that. There's just no way we can ever feel like she's capable of redemption.
That's kind of the impression that I get as well.
Firecracker seems to be compelled by the knowledge that her future actions will certainly cause harm. I can't imagine a version of her that ever wants to be redeemed.
Deep might at least attempt to be a better person if he thought there was any benefit to it.
He does things despite the harm it causes. She does things in favour of the harm it causes.
Are we sure none of the octopii were kids?
Been a while. What did Firecracker do in regards to being a sex offender?
Slept with a 15 year old boy
Gurl if anything Firecracker has more of a motive because of what Starlight did to her when they were young it doesn't excuse her behaviour and her um past but deep is too far gone
Remember: Firecracker hinted at knowing things about Starlight, and in S5, she will most likely air out how she joined the 7. She's just petty enough to follow through with it.
I have a feeling I'd feel kind of bad for Firecracker if she didn't have powers and wasn't hot, she'd just be some sad abused trailer trash kid. I feel like Deep's brain has hit its peak and is incapable of moving forward. At least he cares about the ocean I guess. She doesn't seem to care about anything.
Well, one's a rapist, the other's a pedo. So I'd say both are pretty irredeemable.
Pedo are rapist to so she a dual threat
I mean, on the flipside of that, Deep regularly engages in bestiality... I don’t have a definitive answer for you about whether that is better or worse, but I’d say that even her relations with a minor don’t 100% put Firecracker below Deep.
Animals in the boys universe seems to be able to give concent. (Unless the Deep mind control powers are much stronger then we thought AND he has schizophrenia)
Ehh… I have thoughts on this.
Remember, Deep is the ONLY human able to communicate with sea creatures, so when he brings those creatures home with him, his is isolating them from anyone else that could understand them and grooming them to love him and rely on him.
So while the situation seems consensual, I would argue that Deep has groomed these creatures into relationships they otherwise wouldn’t consent to.
Okay, that might make sense with Timothy but he met Ambrosius at Herogasm and clearly the connection was pretty immediate. Seems pretty consensual
Well how is he ever gonna prove that in a lawsuit?
Vought lawyers will find a way
"Deep, go and fuck Shamu in the blowhole"
all The fish he fucks so far have consented lol
You know I was going to say that we know his relationship is very much consensual because we can hear what Deep hears. But I mean the characters in the show only have his word to rely on and he is a known rapists in their universe. So what would make them believe that he tells them that the relationship is consensual.
... the other is a pedo rapist?? Pedo rapist
she rapes pedos?
Not a pedophile dash rapist. A pedophile slash rapist.
Unexpected Bojack
All pedos are rapists. People under age literally can't consent.
Nah. While I hate a rapist pedo as much as any sane person, I pity those with immoral feelings like that. They don’t decide how they feel, but they do decide how they act.
When people say all pedos are rapists they mean people who act. There is no way to know if someone is a pedo if they don't do anything illegal.
Sure there is, just check their social media and if they repost lots of underaged anime girls you can have a pretty good idea.
Saying that on Reddit? Prepare for the replies lol
Whats the only thing worst than a rapist?
A child!!
A child.
Love that skit
The hypocrisy?
The reference
Deep's a serial rapist
"-What's worse than a rapist ? -Boom -A child ! -No"
Firecracker is more irredeemable IMO. She has no problem spewing her Fox News propaganda to rile up the base and cause civil unrest, and she’s said she knows she’s selling bullshit. The Deep is just an idiot taking advantage of his station where Firecracker is actively damaging the fabric of society.
The sex crimes are small potatoes here.
Seems pretty even to me
They are both rapists but as horrendous as this is being the tiebreaker, Deep raped an adult and she raped a child.
True, but I think about it less in terms of what they’ve already done and more about their likelihood to do any introspection/think about anyone but themselves and they’re both pretty self absorbed
in terms on how they'll continue to grow? Deep is worse, time and time again he rejected redemption and digs a growing hole that he'll never see the other side of
Deep also has multiple people he’s assaulted. Stilwell says as much when they exile deep.
Happy cake day
Thank you 🙏🏽
Neither, both deserve a spectacular death
Not really interested in a redemption arc for either one to be honest
They're both pieces of crap.
Except Deep can be likeable due to him being funny
Firecracker ig?
She’s a pedo and it’s unforgivable what she did to Annie by exposing her abortion in S4, resulting in the tides turning against Annie, but much of it stems from childhood resentment against Annie.
That doesn’t mean her pedophilia is forgiven, though. That’s on her.
The Deep is irredeemable however, period. He’s a rapist and a creep too. And having Annie fellate him and getting away with it is proof that he is a multiple offender.
When did she do pedo stuff? How did I forget that?
From The Boys wiki:
"When she was 28 years old, Firecracker worked as a Counselor at the Capes in Davie, Florida. While working there, she engaged in sexual relations with a 15-year-old boy, in an incident that was caught on camera, though Vought were able to use their resources to drop Firecracker's statutory charges and sweep the incident under the rug."
In s4 Butcher and Hughie try to blackmail Firecracker by releasing info about her pedo behaviour
Worst part is she releases it herself so she doesn't feel any remorse or gaf
*MM, not Hughie.
The only villain that has a very small chance of redemption is A- Train.
I say small chance cause he’s done some bad shit.
He's already redeemed.
He may never fix his karmic balance sheet. But redemption isn't about whether you've managed to do more good than bad over the course of your life. It's about abandoning evil and self-interest and instead fighting for the good of others. He's already crossed that line.
Yeah A-Trains redeemed, even Hughies on somewhat good terms with him same with Ashley.
And those are characters that absolutely hated him before in previous seasons that knows he’s reformed since.
Safe to say A-Trains already redeemed.
"redeemed" is seen as a strong word, but he's fighting for good, and as long as he keeps doing that I'm behind him for sure
people who have the skills to do good are more valuable doing that good than rotting in prison
This comment is like a season or two late.
A-Train is revealed to be Starlight’s right hand in Gen V. He’s already a good guy now.
[removed]
Murder AND rape is worse than just murder.
Not to mention, his murders were accidental (Robin), forced by Homelander (Popclaw) or deserved (Blue Hawk).
Deep enjoys killing people.
There’s a big difference in your last point. Absolutely consequences matter, but A-Train never seemed to enjoy killing at all. He’s always had a greater capacity for good than The Deep and a ceiling to his evil.
I mean, he also lowk ratted on supersonic
You could justify murder, but you can’t justify rape
But his murders aren't justified
Firecracker, because as horrible as they both are, Deep at least makes me feel bad for him sometimes. Then I remember he's a fuckin' creep and sex predator.
As fucked up as attraction to a 15 year old is, Firecracker doesn't have the same malice or sadism behind her actions. Beyond the grudge she holds towards Annie from childhood, she's largely a useful idiot/true believer in Homelander's public persona and thinks she's doing the right thing. As a result, she has the potential to recognize the true danger behind Homelander's mental instability and work against it.
The Deep is just a stupid sadistic little man that only acts out of self-interest and self-preservation while enjoying a variety of predatory acts. Since The Deep understands what he's doing and doesn't care about the broader implications, he's incapable of redemption.
Considering the conversation Firecracker had with Sage, Im pretty sure Firecracker isn’t an idiot nor does she think she’s doing the right thing. Maybe her thing. But I don’t think she deludes herself that much into her beliefs.
Like she knows what she’s spewing is nonsense. Sure she can say giving hope and inspiring people but she knows it’s nonsense and she knows she doesn’t actually care about her fans. Even before she got on television. She is a Homelander believer who’s in way over her head. There’s also the fact that she’s pretty much on the weaker side of the Seven and can be easily replaced.
Deep despite his idiocy, is Aquaman. He’s not that replaceable power wise. But I do agree with most of what you said.
Firecracker has a limit. Lines she does not and probably can not cross. But she lets herself be dragged across. Until she puts her foot down or like ATrain feeds the other side knowledge, she’s not going to be redeemed.
Redemption is a possibility. Not total redemption but something. But does she want that?
Deep clearly doesn’t. And I’m kind of glad he won’t ever get one. If he did, I’d feel like that’s poor writing.
yeah I think part of what makes Firecracker bad is that she knows it's all bullshit
unlike Stormfront she doesn't believe in what she preaches, which makes her a really good Store Value Stormfront, imo (even in the way she wants Homelander but he doesn't want her)
See this is the comment I was looking for. A lot of people are like, well Firecracker is this and that, and I’m like…doesn’t she tell Sage she really doesn’t believe in what she peddles? She figured out it was a way to get attention; people were feeing lost and disconnected and this is what she figured out “brought them together”. I’m not saying that wipes her slate clean and makes her a good person, it just makes her bad in a different way. If that makes sense…😂
If you’ve ever seen wicked it’s like a worse Glinda. Most of her ditzyness is an act
They’re both pieces of shit, but we all know Firecracker is going to get preferential treatment by the gooners.
Neither, but at least Deep shuts the fuck up from time to time.
Firekirker just does not have an off switch.
Neither
The Deep's a serial rapist that viiolently assualted multiple women and enjoys murdering people, encouraging Black Noir to also do so.
Firecracker committed statoury rape but she seems to have slight horror at Homelander's crimes like killing Webweaver
as an indian, i gotta say, "do not redeem"
One of thems a pedo
Firecracker.
Firecracker, because she KNOWS she is a piece of shit but keeps being irredeemable anyway. Deep is too stupid to even KNOW he is.
Between a rapist and a pedo.
Firecracker!!
Well one's a rapist and one's a child rapist...
Its hard to say, while Deep is responsivle for more direct violence, Firecracker is likely more responsible for more violence in general via stochastic terrorism.
I tend to forgive deep more because he seems like he might actually be mentally handicapped in some way. Reminds me of how gang members select people they can't take advantage of and get loyalty of of them.
I mean, Firecracker's a proud pedophile.
Firecracker had sex with a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD as a 28 year old woman. This was while she was a camp counselor, and she felt zero remorse and even joked about the situation afterwards. She also directly feeds into Homelanders fetish. Shes extremely racist, sexist, homophobic. You just know if Firecracker had real powers she'd use them to kill minorities and just do evil depraved shit.
Deep is a POS as well but his crimes are nothing compared to the shit Firecracker does. Shes more comparable with trump or epstein, being a literal pedophile and proud of it. People say Deeps a rapist but so is Firecracker, you cant consent under 16 in literally any US state and shes twice the age of the kid, I mean come on.
Edit: If Firecracker was a male people would be begging the creators to kill her off... There isn't a single male main character on the show who openly rapes minors, even fuckin Homelander wouldnt do that. If Firecracker was a near 30 male having sex with a 15 yr old girl pitchforks would be coming out, people are just blinded by titties and ass. Thats the entire point of her character
The deep never fucked kids so
imo the deep. He has had many opportunities to grow and become better and he always chooses the morally wrong thing. He's a foil to A Train, who also reached rock bottom and has decided to fight against Vought and Homelander.
What really did it for me was when he let the octopus die.
Fire cracker has been showing cracks early on that she isn't 100% on board and she's trying to make a better life for herself.
One is a complete moron who fucks sea creatures. The other is a moronis influencer streamer fleecing morons for money.
The world would not miss either.
Deep is horrible but Firecracker is still a pedo.
Deep. Real piece of shit.
Milkies 👅👅👅
Deep is irredeemable because he's too dumb to know better. Firecracker is just a southern racist supe.
Don’t forget being a Pedophile
Firecracker.
Deep at least genuinely cares for sea creatures, and had to be psychologically broken by Homelander to get on board with the Homelander agenda. He's a trash person anyway and this is in no way an excuse for his behavior, but he's at least capable of caring about something and of doing something because it's right in extremely specific circumstances, and there are at least psychological scars responsible for his worst actions (again, not to defend them).
Firecracker actively and loudly spews hate, backstabs people gleefully, her only explained motivation is revenge on her high school nemesis from like a decade ago for beating her at pageants, she hitches her wagon to Homelander completely voluntarily to the point of giving herself an extremely dangerous drug cocktail that shortened her life expectancy to ingratiate herself to him completely unprompted, and she was pushing abhorrent positions long before coming into contact with him.
Deep, by far. He was already lost after assaulting Starlight in the first season and not really giving a shit about it since then. Although I still hate Firecracker a whole lot too.
Deep
Obviously the deep for what he did to that poor octopus. He’s a self hating fish
Deep had a redemption chance and chose to continue being evil. Firecracker might have a moment of self reflection in the future and realize how petty she’s being. There’s a tiny chance she’ll do the decent thing and better herself, but I doubt it. Still, more of a chance than Deep.
Firecracker because of the trauma Annie put her through but idk man she is a pdf (Deep is beyond redemption)
both of them can go to hell
Whoever I can fap to
The deep.
I could fix firecracker...
I hope both of them get brutalized in the upcoming season
Deep but it's very close, they're basically mirrors who don't want to change
The deep had a whole ass redemption arc and was like nah im good
Neither deserve redemption for all the fucked up shit they've been party to. Sometimes a villain is just a villain.
Sex crimes are the type of crime you can't just wash away. They irrevocably change their victims, and I personally don't think most crimes are the type of stuff you can get out of a person just by locking them up. Maybe if they receive years of therapy they can repress being a monster, but that monster is always present.
coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
Both should die IMO. Neither has any redeeming features.
But Firecracker is fairly powerless…..she has no real ability to -hurt- someone other than words and/or PR stunts. The Deep has some abilities to do so. And he’s proven himself to be all about serving his needs and using others (even animals) to do so at will. Firecracker will use others, of course, but she has no real power to force her will on others.
I suspect Homelander will at some point just flat out eye-fuck Firecracker when she coughs at a bad time again. He knows how weak she is. The Deep….he’s a tool that can still be used.
Who cares? They're both hot and that's what matters 😍🤤
At this point? The writers.
Firecracker.
She's exploitative,cutthroat, and extremely petty. She lives up to her name. Count on her running Starlight through the worst of it, especially knowing she can't "swallow her pride".
No opinion other than just how massively homelander’s crew reminds us of trump’s. It’s just so obvious and out there and more people should call it out.
Make america safe again. Yeah.
Probably Deep. Deep is a repeated grapist, Firecracker as far as we are aware, only graped that 15 year old. Both of them were seen killing vought employees at the end of Season 4, but The Deep took more pleasure in it.
Firecracker also has a more tragic backstory, being bullied mercilessly by other Pageant Queens and a Young Annie, while it seems the Deep had better formative years, joining the Seven sooner, as well as being a storied member of Vought Academy and a soirety president. The guy gives the vibe of an idiot who has managed to fall upwards.
The pdfile. At least Deep’s bestiality is consensual.
Both of them are sex offenders.
Deep and it isn't close. As an example, Firecracker seemed horrified when Homelander ripped Web Weaver in half. Deep on the other hand was getting off to murdering Vaught employees. Firecrackers a piece of shit too, but she has not sunk to the same levels of cruelty that the Deep has. Deep is as bad as Homelander at this point.
I can fix her
Dude got top from an octopus
I'm gonna say Firecracker just because at the very least The Deep didn't diddle a kid like Firecracker did (The bar is in hell).
The Deep. Easy choice.
The Deep, not even a question. The guy is a sadistic rapist with no sentiments who had a chance of becoming better but was so selfish and a POS of a human being that he just became worse.
Deep because hes not a republican.
Deep
Neither? Neither.
Be funny if she turns on HL like Marjorie Taylor Greene
Deep fucked an octopus..
Deep period. I don’t no why but yes
The Deep literally ate a being he knew to be sentient and self-aware while it was alive and being him to stop. Also SA. Murder.
The stinky man, of course.
I can fix her.
I feel like the Deep. Firecracker did have sex with a minor (WHICH ISNT SOMETHING ANYONE SHOULD DO) but from my guess that was at least SOMEWHAT consensual. The Deep full on used his status as a member of the Seven to RAPE Annie and despite somewhat getting raped himself and “trying” to redeem himself he’s still fallen further into irredeemability like some sort of Sisyphus paradox.
Firecracker, if I had to choose between the two. Deep is just a straight up idiot monster.
Both are almost impossible... But last thing I remember about S4 is that firecracker was left speechless when homelander brutally killed webweaver... Maybe even someone like her can comprehend siding with homelander is not smart
The Deep by a long shot. He has gone from frat bro doofus to snivelling sociopath.
Firecracker is equally bad but if any of the two were to have a "hero" moment, it would be her. Like a moment of realisation that she is being used and she turns against Sage and Homelander.
The less hot one.
Are we just forgetting that the Deep is a straight up murderer? Like he's killed innocent civilians. The closest Firecracker has does was shoot Kimiko in the head.
The only way they're even remotely redeemable is if they take a stand against Homelander. And even then, their graves should be pissed on.
Why does Firecracker look so CGI here
I mean the Deep seemed to undergo the exact opposite of a redemption arc, while cracker stayed static. So between -10 and 0 I'd say 0
Firecracker fucked a kid, so her
Well, one of them is a rapist…
Both, ones a rapist, the others a child rapist and a conservative
Firecracker only because she’s smart enough to know how terrible she is. She’s a horrible person that doesn’t deserve it and a rapist. That being said the deep is too dumb to know why everyone hates him.
She is just like any other "influencer" nowadays.
Fire cracker had never killed anyone. Deep has, and has no guilt remorse over it at all.
Deep deserves the worst help imaginable, probably worse than homelander.
Murderer and sex pest < Grifter and pedophile
I’d say the deep bc there are moments of humanity where you can tell he’s aware for just a brief second, then goes back under and I feel like that’s a worst fate
100% the deep. Firecracker didn’t kill any octopi
The Deep is a freak, who am I to yuck his yum. Actually, he’s done multiple crimes but blah blah blah. Firecracker is a white supremacist, fascist, freak, pedo, and nazi.
I’m personally gonna say firecracker, but I can see arguments for The Deep
I think Deep just because you could argue he's really just stupid. Firecracker does almost everything intentionally to create a narrative.
Both, equally.
Both of them are rapists. Both of them are okay with other people being mistreated, maybe even murdered, so long as they’re not in the line of fire. Both of them are horrible, irredeemable pieces of shit, and I hope they both die in the worst ways imaginable.
the peak is redeemed
The pedo
While I personally feel both are pretty well beyond, I have a feeling Deep will end up crossing Homelander and die trying to stop him. Though the last season he kind of went off the rails a bit near the end. Maybe some sense can be talked into him, like a less redeemable ATrain
Neither of them 💀 but if I had to say, probably Firecracker they’re both irredeemable and guilty of most of the same crimes, except firecracker assaulted a minor. But I would have to say she’s probably more capable just because, Deep has shown genuinely no remorse, empathy, or even higher critical thinking of his actions. While Firecracker started cracking after a couple weeks as HL lackey.