Queued in to duty roulette as Astrologian and got Malikah's Well. Happy days, a high level dung than normal.
First pull tank (Paladin) nearly dies after a few secs so heal him up think nothing of it, check his gear, all lvl 80 tome gear - great.
Second and slightly bigger pull im struggling to keep him alive. His HP is yoyo-ing. So notice he hasn't yet used rampart, reprisal, arms length, sheltron nothing at all. Literally using all my kit to keep him on his feet...
Kill first boss, no mits used. Make it to 2nd boss and kill it. Pulls between 2nd and 3rd boss I once again ask for mits and am met with the replies in the image. Then after the final boss he has the cheek to tell me to learn how to heal! Easiest blacklist of my life.
Why do the dumbest people have to be the most confidently wrong? The number of tanks who claim they're using mits when they aren't always seem shocked when I say "I can see the buffs on you and the debuffs on the mobs why are you trying to lie?"
Literally this. I have all tanks at 100 so I know every mitigation icon for them pretty much. Just a bit of an entitled prick was this particular tank.
The worst is when they claim you're hacking. Like no dipass, the game shows it right next to you on the party list and mines expanded to 10 buffs. My eyes aren't a hack, you just suck.
Unfortunately for us, they are too stupid to consider a world wherein they could be wrong. To them they’ve been correct since the dawn of time, and nothing you or I can say will ever be enough to show them the contrary
There’s a psychological theory on that
I love when I call them out on it and they say "I save them for emergencies." Really? Other than the class ultimate mits, they're all 1m30s max, with many under 60s. I'm pretty sure they'll be back up when we need them, and I'm also pretty sure me having to spam my entire kit to keep you up constitutes an "emergency."
Sentinel, Vengeance, Shadow Wall and Nebula are 120 seconds (2 mins). Wait did you mean THOSE as clas ultimate mits or invulns? If the former, mb, ignore this lul. Otherwise yeah everything is 90 seconds or 60 for reprisal or 25 (I think?) for short mit. Or 15 because TBN.
Yeah I meant those as class ultimates / invulns. I wouldn't be mad at a tank that held those but used their other tools.
Considering most pulls shouldn't take more than 30 seconds once planted, and in dungeons at most you need your 25s short mit for tank busters on bosses. should be using your 90s on one trash pull, and 120s on the other, with the reprisal spare should it take a little longer, not to mention where to weave arms length for some extra mit by slowing the mob attack speed.
Like I said, I wouldn't be mad at them for not using them. I wouldn't be happy either, but I'd accept it as the bare minimum if they were using their other mits.
I like mixing reprisal and arm's length cause they reduce enemy damage in different ways so they're fully effective.
Why thought? Press hallowed ground, let the healer dps for 10 seconds to kill the group faster. Press superbowl below half, cod, and... you guessed it, let the healer dps. The other two the same.
I didn't say they couldn't / shouldn't use them, just that I won't fault them if they hold them while using all others.
Well, you should. The difference between a good tank and a great one is the latter knows how to use their invulns just like any other mit and not just an oh shit button.
Again, I fully agree. We're talking about DF though. I'll take what I can get.
Look man, you cant heal stupid. I've tried. Good on the blacklist, hopefully your next run is better.
Yup lesson learned. Still really glad for the 2 charges of Essential Dignity. Saved his ass way more than he realised.
Wait until you get charge 3, you'll feel like a god
Wait, ill get another charge at some point? Sweeeet
Yeaaaaaaaaa and a second charge of the little heal with a little shield. Lv100 ast is so much fun.
Ohh nice! Yeah looking forward to getting AST up to 100, was getting a little bored with WHM and SGE. Whilst they are nice at 100 im really liking all the different aspects of AST with the card and little buffs you have access to.
It's just so damn versatile. Especially with neutral sect giving you 15 sec of making shields. When you hit 100 it also gives you another mit after its procced (sun sign).
Oracle after divination feels so good too.
Literally unlocked neutral sect earlier on. Haven't had a dung to use it yet. Do you just use it on CD or wait before a raid wide etc? Im trying to figure out what to use where as I go along.
I only use it for big hits, so I tend to save it until its really needed. At that level, it just gives you the ability to have your aspects spells proc shields, which certainly helps.
Play around with it when you get the ability, but its best use ive found is raidwides since you can shield again and again and keep your hot rolling at the same time.
Cool thanks for the advice! I'd assume also using just before and during multi hit stack markers could work aswell. Unless Im using collective unconscious i suppose
It's something you use when you know a fight basically. Like if you see "Big Ability 1" and don't know what it is, that's whatever. But if a few minutes later you see "Big Ability 1" being cast, you know "oh, that's a tank buster I don't need to use neutral on that," and then see "Big Ability 2" which you know is a raidwide so then you can use it there. A lot of damage raidwides tend to be in 90s and 2m intervals so should help with miting stuff. At the end of the day it's only normals and they don't do damage so as long as you try that all that matters, and if you don't shield a raidwide it probably won't kill everyone, and you can just heal them up normally.
Iirc it is a GCD healing buff right? I would just use it any time you're about to GCD heal.
In raids, you will probably find yourself picking specific moments to use it.
By Malikah’s Well a PLD should be brushing off attacks like they are being hit with feathers… especially in gear meant for starting EW with
Malikah’s Well? If I’m tanking, I care too little if there are heals or not, if I die it’s on me, though I appreciate the buffer of having regen/shield pre-pull, and healer please unleash your DoTs and AOE aplenty pretty please!
Though if they overheal trying to keep me topped always, I won’t say anything and try get the stuff done. I only speak if they are cure bots, or using cure 1 (or equivalent) on non beginner dungeons (is rare, but sometimes there are sprouts than listen and learn).
Good advice there would be to know other roles than your own, it’s makes you better at your job. I sometimes correctly identify healers is tank main (it shows)… or if it’s me healing, I’ll be watching and aligning with tank abilities. And if my tank is a war on 60+ and I have to throw any GCD heal, doesn’t get my comm XD (there are exceptions, ofc). And sprouts trying and learning should get comms.
As someone who's main tank is Paladin, the main issue I could foresee during Malikah's Well is that the job lacks all of its self heal options outside of Clemency (as those were all added with Endwalker).
But that isn't the case in this post since the healer had to use everything they had because the tank wasn't even using their mits.
I main DRK as my tank class and even that class is quite healthy at Malikah’s Well, assuming as you pointed out the tanking class is using their mits. It boggles the mind when a non-mitting tank melts and has the gall to blame the healer, especially an AST
PLD is actually pretty significantly weaker than DRK in that range, their only self healing is clemency and technically divine veil, vs TBN + AD
Yup I agree somewhat with that. He didnt have holy sheltron, not sure if at that level Holy circle heals you at the end of the aoe 1 2 3 combo?
It doesn't - not until... 84, iirc.
Again fair enough not much self healing in that level range but his HP was dropping like he had dogshit gear on. But nope, full 80 tome gear and zero mits. Yay!
I did malikah's well as PLD myself not too long ago in similar gear and it was an absolute breeze. Second pull before the first boss hurts a bit but that's always on any job with that w2w. Other than that it was easy when just cycling mits correctly.
There's a couple of points in ShB where wall to wall can make me nervous as a Paladin, or at least did while I was in leveling gear, but Malikah's Well was not one of them
until I completely failed to understand the endboss's mechs the first time.If you manage to die or stress your healer at the start of Holminster or Mt. Gulg that's one thing, but Malikah's Well?
PLD's have some many mits it's ridiculous. When I played one, I couldn't actually use them all if I only used them one at a time. There are too many. They can throw them out constantly at that level and always have another couple off cooldown.
I don't think I have ever once had all my mits on cooldown as a PLD. Even not counting Arm's Length. There's like 1 or 2 more than you will ever need to make sure you're mitted through every pull.
Maybe unless you're doing Duty Support I guess but frankly I am okay with forcing Alphinaud to be a healbot.
I have, but never in dungeons. At doomtrain ex to be precise pre-intermission if i've taken one or two dumb vuln stacks.
It happened with some godawful healer in random roulette, but yeah, outside of ex, paladin is very good at keeping the mit rolling.
Honestly some of the run where this happen could be worth a pftales.
Yeah you use all of your kit in high end content so supports are way overtuned on normals. If the party dps is bad on the newest ex I will run my kit out of everything by the 4th tb cleave in adds phase. I guess technically I still have my wings there but I really want to save it for the transition so I don't touch it. It doesn't feel good to eat that cleave raw but I can.
Alright I haven't done on-patch EX or any Savage so I was referring mainly to dungeons. In DUNGEONS it's almost impossible to get close to running out of mits as a PLD.
Unless the party dps is too low, for sure. I'm actually a melee main but I notice a huge difference when I tank vs when I dps. There are far too many dps out there who think because they're not playing tank/healer they don't have "responsibility" and just do whatever the f they want not realizing they're the reason the tank is down to praying their short mit comes back and the healer is spamming gcd heals with whatever juice they've got left because the pull is taking longer than a boss fight.
Well that's wrong. A DPS's job isn't particularly complex, but it's to kill everything as fast as possible so the enemies die faster than the tank does.
Believe me I am well aware of that lol. It's just entirely too obvious when they aren't pressing their buttons. Dps making mistakes might be less outwardly obvious in their mind but supports can absolutely tell when the dps isn't there.
tanks HATE this one simple trick
In basically every video game I’ve ever played regardless of genre there are entitled tanks who get really pissy when their healer displays any kind of autonomy. Why is this?
My almost full proof tactic to get tanks to mit is just let them insta die and say “I thought you were just gonna invuln that pull cause you weren’t using mits my bad”
Then they hit you with the "why would I invuln, those are for emergencies only" lol.
Imagine not wanting to press the literal best mit in the entire game and getting the satisfying chorus of tinks as feeble weapons bounce off your armor.
I sure don't get it myself. Invuln fun. Only time I would save it at all is if I am with a group that's struggling and I need to be careful of what I have available. Even then that's eh.
Depends on the fight. On fights I know have double tbs I save mine for the sheer number of times my cotank does not stack with me. I know I can stack mits to live but I'd rather invuln and save the mits if it's going to be one of those runs haha. M7 and M10 are the biggest offenders by far. But also being able to Hallowed + Cover to save a healer in an emergency is nice.
In dungeons I always use it on the first pull and either the last one or the boss depending on how heavy that last pull is.
"You barely heal me."
OP, completely out of cooldowns to burn
https://preview.redd.it/nly5hpck07cg1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ff7c00fa824c3923746b74175acca5615d731b1
This is the first image which for some reason reddit decided not to put in the post
Edit, never mind reddit did post it my stupid phone wouldn't display it until I refreshed 🙄
This tank want you to do all the work while they take all the credit and expect the comms at the end for "good tanking".
I wonder if they think Clemency is a mit.
Either he truly is that dense to think you can't tell that he's being lazy, or he's trolling.
Either way, easy blacklist. Good riddance.
If their server had been Moogle I'd be sure it was one gem I bumped into recently nowhere other than Mt. Gulg. I got told off being arrogant and ignorant shit AST when they died, that I should not think I am as great as I let the impression of me be. After I had literally said nothing but hello in the chat at the beginning of the pull.. good times
I've stopped play about a year ago. But my favorite is when they burn the mits on the boss but refuse to use it on trash pulls.
Ive only encountered your issue maybe twice where a tank just doesn't use them. I suspect that they came from WoW where CDs are a bit more precious for certain conditions
Had exactly this with a sprout tank the other day, explained to use them for trash and to cycle them. From then on the pulls were a dream.
I very rarely vote dismiss people.But when tanks are confidently wrong like this and refuse to accept there being idiots that's when I go and pull it out as unfortunately , I value my time more than some asshole thinking their god's gift to tanking.*
Reminder that you can filter your in game chat to only display player messages.
Noted, I did have a quick look but wasn't sure what exactly I was looking for. Will have a good look through the menus next time!
It should be in chat settings you can click on the chst window name then change what shows in it.
For example I one for all text minus shout, my everything except like, one cwls goes into general, I have events which is echo for fisher macros and for things NPCs say / the dialogue from cs or NPCs dialogue. Battle I have for various battle effects that I use in prog.
Sorting things like that can make it real cozy. "That" being just sorting what goes where in your channels, not exactly doing it like me (unless you want to!).
It should be in the settings icon right next to your chat bar.
It always blows my mind when tanks don't mit.
Like, you're requiring your healer to use literally ALL of their buttons because YOU won't even press HALF of yours?
Because you're doing the incredibly complex thing of checks notes pulling two whole packs (sometimes less if it's Snoozetrail!) of mobs and hitting two alternating AoE buttons?
I always call out tanks who don't mit, regardless of if I'm the healer. I've seen way too much shit like this where the healer usually suffers in silence. If they get bitchy and defensive, they get the door.
Also, tanks using mits = healer doesn't have to heal as much = healer can DPS = mobs die faster. Everyone wins.
These tanks make me wonder what their hotbar looks like and if they even have their mits assigned to anything.
Just let them die.
As much as I was tempted im then not playing by the rules myself. Dont get me wrong though, the urge was SO strong
"oops I ran out of cool downs" or
"Oops sorry I interrupted my casts when dodging shoes, so sorry"
There's enough ways to make it look like you're innocent.
Yep.
just give me a wow-like dps meter just for a single patch so we can out these people and thin the herd a little. just a short little Rampart use: 1/28 etc just to shut these people up
I'd have let the tank die few times. However, I wuoldn't have said anything in chat. Just stopped healing and when they complained I would stay mute. (I never talk in DF at all. Found that to be the perfect solution 99.99% of the time).
Found that very quickly they learn to pop their CD's and even invuln.
Not saying everyone should do what I do since I can be extremely petty.
idk man.... he wasn't raging at you.... this seems like a healer trying to dps more than heal. Only 1 side of the story no logs. cool story though glad you got to farm karma. ready to be downvoted into oblivion
Honestly mate, I wish I could of dps'd more. But you're welcome to your opinion. Either that or you're the tank in question 👀
Nah.... GNB main and I love some defensives. It's just like every post on this sub is just people upset at the tank. There's just not enough substance here for me to take your side. Sub ran out a few days ago because it is just stuff like this constantly. Tank pulls too much, not enough, not the way I like, doesn't hit abilities I want them to. Ok well.... power through I'm sorry you had to spend an extra 5 minutes playing the game. This could have been a "Yo! Carried this dude!" instead you made it.... look everyone point and laugh at the tank! Great community we got here.
I feel ya, I have all tanks at level 100 so have gone through the same whilst I was learning the roles. Its easy to take advice on board, instead he told me I wasn't healing him lol. All I did was ask him to mitigate damage. Its part of his job. He didnt wanna do it. like an idiot I struggled on. Hindsight says I should have just dipped out and taken the 30.
Nah.... I'd say you probably flexed some healer muscles you haven't flexed in a long time fought through and beat the roulette. Just try to look at it more like that was wild.... take the hard earned exp/tomes and not look down on the dude. There's a lot of pressure to go fast and it sounds like the pace was fine. So if they were a PS player might not have been a good look to stop and type it out. If you genuinely hated the experience block and move on. If you want tanks to get better take a minute after to make suggestions.
Im a ps5 player. But yeah hard earned rings true lol. Pace was fine as the dps players were good. Could have been faster if I could of done some more damage. I just wanna be In and out of roulettes. I did indeed blacklist him as he told me to learn to heal and dipped immediately before I could respond lol
The you go on to say how you have every tank leveled.... gave the guy no specific instructions such as w2w:1 use X and X.... w2w2 use X and X.... not even hang out so I can give you some pointers.... just point laugh ignore.... karma farm on reddit. Like I said... cool story.
if he’s a lvl 80 pally then he should already know these things though