Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/comments/1psap2q/sure_let_your_kid_do_whatever/
HIGHLIGHTS
Cats belong inside or on farms for pest control. Keep them inside.
Literally not the point of the post. For the record I agree with you 100%, but don't be a dick about it.
Memes are meant to spark conversations in my opinion. Not really much of a point to them except for how the consumer interprets it. I said my two cents. And I'll leave it at that. Farewell and have a pleasant day. edit- talk to text error.
Two cents* Also no - memes are distractions to laugh at, not for "sparking conversation". You're in the wrong corner of the internet if you're looking for serious conversation.
You’re participating in a comment thread that is the result of a meme. You might not think memes are meant to spark conversation, Reddit is definitely using it like that (and given the size of Reddit and its influence, I’d argue that this definitely influences the commonly held view of memes)
Cat don't belong trapped in one room
Then you shouldn't get a cat, it's not that difficult
I have two, they're allowed outside and are both happy and healthy.
I'm sure the local wildlife and your neighbours aren't. Your pets, your property....that is as far as they should be going without non-stop supervision and control. Or would you be okay with everyone else's pets visiting your property as well?
They have killed a couple birds/mice which admittedly is sad but animals are animals. Never had a complaint from the neighbours. Yeah my neighbours cats stop by in my garden all the time! They're chill!
what stops you from leashing your cats and taking them for a walk? man, some of you cat owners are some of the most selfish people i have ever seen. genuinely, have you checked the situation for animals like small songbirds? a lot of these species are heading towards extinction.
The front or backyard is "wild" to you? You need to go outside more.
Or maybe, just maybe, you should educate yourself in this matter? Just a thought.
What's to educate about? Please learn me something new today. What am I not getting?
Start by reading the comments, there's a lot of people explaining the problems. Then you can read about chomping time for Wile E. Coyote: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/12/protect-your-pets-cats-make-up-one-fifth-of-coyotes-diet-in-los-angeles
Maybe you should take your own advice because it seems like you're on the wrong side of the dichotomy in the comments.
I'll gladly be on the wrong side of people who know nothing about invasive species.
You have no evidence that they let their cat wander unsupervised. It's just one sentence...
Oh, you just moved the goal! Good. Let me know when you've found a definite position, then we can engage.
My cats live outside. Wth are you talking about here. Ever heard of a barn cat?
cats are incredibly invasive and should not be outside.
You can never tell a cat person their pets shouldnt murder half the local bird population. They dont care. Infact they seem to enjoy the idea that their pet kills birds its like some sick satisfaction for them.
i am a cat person and i think its much better for cats to be indoors. as do most of the people i know who are cat people. sometimes i do come across the type of person who takes some immature pride in letting their cat outside to kill animals (presumably because theyre one of those right wing weirdos who sees it as 'owning the libs' or some other infantile phrase) but i will very happily call them out for their selfishness
It always amazes me that it's common in first world countries, I've seen it in Norway, the UK, the US... In my country no serious shelter will hand you a cat if you let it access the streets, it's common knowledge. Animal protectors will visit your house to see if you installed a system that prevents your cat from accessing the streets. And people come here LOUD and PROUD that their cats are roaming free. Good for the coyotes, I suppose.
Thats why you don’t let your pets run free
Or kids 🤷♀️Great point.
Kid was in their own property. Cat lady committed a crime
I am not sure how you came up with the fact the cat was on the child’s neighboring property. Either way your theory is now…”Animal on my property? Lucky me. I can abuse it as I see will. Even better it’s not bothering anyone.”
It's a small child. What they did was stupid. But if we are going by your logic then the owner was abusing a children.
Just following your vibe.
fyi, dumping water on someone counts as an assault. be careful here...
I'm wrong!! sorry, it is BATTERY
Maybe, however I doubt police are going to really do anything about it, and even less likely the prosecutor will follow through.
if the parents file a police report, you may be in trouble, especially because it's a child. personally, i would profusely apologize just to be safe
I will take my chances. Useless pigs do not do shit.
well, the "useless pigs" in my city charged the guy who verbally assaulted my children (and took a video of them playing) was charged, prosecuted, fined and then asked to leave the neighborhood.
What was he charged with? And who asked him to leave the neighborhood? Like move?
assault and battery. the HOA and landlord asked (told) him to leave the neighborhood.
Man people are not gonna like this. Seems like this owner just assaulted a kid and now’s trying to get some kinda justification.
It’s water. The kid will live.
Same with the cat?
Yep. Dad could have stayed home. Kid and cat should have both learned their lesson.
We have a neighborhood cat that gets my indoor cats riled up, I throw water at it. Fuck that cat
Unless that cat is indoors, it belongs to no one. Real cat lovers keep their babies indoors, safe and away from danger. If the cat is an outside cat, it isn't yours. Full stop. If it is indoor/outdoor it still isn't yours. Don't put the cat outside and say it belongs to you, it does not. Cats are invasive predators responsible for extinctions and belong indoors. There is no excuse to put it outside and then claim ownership.
Yeah no. I agree but the ownership part nope.
Outside cats are not owned. They are outside. Wild. End. Of. Debate. You want a cat, bring indoors and keep it there. You now have a cat. You do not own an outside cat. The wild does the town does. End. No excuse.
The law in many countries does not agree though, cats are deemed as property and are therefore “owned”. Your personal opinion does not overrule the law.
The law also does not say cannibalism is not illegal. Outside cat does not belong to you. Other countries may have the idea because you say it is makes it yours. If you throw away a piece of paper and leave, is it going to be returned to you? No it's trash. You abandoned it. Same applies to your property. You gave it away when you put it outside. Any grey cat can be your cat by that logic. Your cat may not be that cat and is not that cat because it came from a feral your cat is still out there. That is not your cat. Ownership starts and ends at that cat being indoors. The moment it leaves the house to join the wild, you no longer have a cat. End of debate. Put the cat indoors. Where it belongs. Where it is property.
Anyone fucks with my cat will wish all they got was a basin of water on em
I'm not into abusing animals, I have 2 cats. But I keep them inside where they belong. No, I didn't buy em or adopt them they were both feral. Now they rule the roost.
OP might be one of the billions of people outside of north America
And? There are quite a few negligent pet owners worldwide that let their cats roam. "...with U.S. estimates suggesting 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion small mammals killed annually..." in the US alone. Free roaming cats have caused the extinction of 63 vertebrate species globally. As you say, there are billions of people outside the US, many of whom are negligent pet owners that let them roam. Some are true ferals. Some have negligent owners who choose to let them roam. This isn't exclusively a US thing. Keep your cats indoors worldwide for the sake of local ecosystems/wildlife. Cats kill for fun. They do not kill just to hunt. They kill because they enjoy it
The reason people can't be arsed with Americans is that the majority of you know nothing about the customs of any other country. The fact that you didn't understand the comment that you're replying too just proves you're one of the many. To educate you, in many other countries, most people would consider it abuse to keep cats indoors. Welcome to differing opinions, take a seat and enjoy.
It's not abuse to keep housepets indoors. Doesn't matter where you live. You're a negligent pet owner if you choose to let your pets roam and contribute to the above statistics. As u/halbaras said, cat owners get weirdly defensive about being allowed to let their cats roam, damage yards, and kill wildlife.
maybe but if you ever get to the Netherlands, you will see dozens of cats roaming the streets, because we have different ideas about cats needing to be inside or outside.
Another great reason to KEEP YOUR PET CATS INSIDE!
Exactly right. Do what you want with your cat but if it puts do much as a whisker in my yard I’m going to treat it like the pest it is.
Tough guy here threatening to hurt animals.
Oh look! It’s yet another whiny redditor who is totally ok making your pet my problem.
On one hand yes the child shouldn't have thrown the water... on the other hand who the fuck refers to a parent as an owner? Thats new to me
ngl if i did what that kid and got water dumper on me, my parent would have said i deserved it
My mom wouldve made me apologize to the person lol
that too lmao
And the cat.
Same, my mom would have marched me to their house and made me apologize.
If my kid had this happen as a consequence of their actions... not going to lie, I'd laugh and bring it up for years. I'd also bring them over to the neighbor to apologize.
Same. Being mean to animals for no reason is something I was raised not to do.
Edgy Reddit anti-natalist types, that's who
I used to frequent that sub a few years back. Now I realize its lame as hell lmao. I wouldnt have my own kids but I also dont hate them or think they shouldn't exist
People on the site have a really gross way of dehumanizing children.
That sounds blunt but that's not too different from reality in most of the world.
I know this gets said a lot but that is yet another subreddit that started “ironic” and became a toxic cesspit of insane anger.
cause the Internet can't not take something to 11.
rip rob
Some people post their own kids and join in on the shitty bullying comments, it's wild. One day your kid is going to be old enough to come across that.
Its bizarre how its so normalized to cyberbully strangers kids like that.
I expect this platform to be nuked every day now so I wouldn't bet on it
I have for years tho
So yeah. Maybe do
Originally it was just like funny accidents but now it’s people who viciously hate children, it’s awful
Its really sad what that subreddit has turned into. It was intended to be lighthearted and humorous and now most of the active users on it seem to not even be aware of that.
I don't understand how anybody thought a subreddit named 'kids are fucking stupid' would be anything other than a vile cesspit of wretched child-hating bastards.
it used to be just like anecdotes/videos of children doing silly child antics, like on the level of "lost their grip and hit themself in the face trying to pull something" or "tried to jump off a high place with a garbage bag umbrella"
watching kids get hurt isn't really my bag but it was at least supposed to be innocent fun
That sub went downhill a while ago. So much vitriol for kids and anyone who dared to have kids.
I love that sub but I guess I never go in the comments.
I dislike children, but I recognize that's a me problem, not a parent and especially not a child problem.
People getting mad over what is probably a fake made up story
Yeah all these revenge fantasy diatribes are super inorganic. I would not be at all suprised to learn theyre bots.
The tell that it is AIed is the usage of the phrase “basin of water”. That’s not a common phrase and instead is something the AI thesaurus spit out.
it is if you're British...
All of the “it’s totally fine for a grown adult to react childishly to a child doing something wrong” rhetoric on Reddit is the most like… “please go outside and talk to someone for five minutes” thing.
It reminds me of the (probably made up) story of the guy who bought all the cookies in a display because the kid behind him was being annoying about wanting a cookie. Wow, cool, you got one over on a six year old.
This site has deeply messed up beliefs about children.
This shit is legitimately horrifying. Obvious made up power fantasies about enacting vigilante violence against literal children. These people need to seek help.
Here's the thing about kids, their brains aren't developed and they literally can't emotionally regulate or understand their decisions. Of course they're going to occasionally misbehave. Adults have that capability, if a kid misbehaves act like a fucking adult who's capable of a modicum of self control.
Everyone envision how the world would be if reddit majority ruled the world. Like, everyone you meet has a highly upvoted reddit comment ready to contradict anything you say.
How long do you think society would last?
Bears eat the towns in three days.
The story of Grafton, New Hampshire was the original Reddit Island
There was an episode of The Orville based exactly on this concept
Much longer than the current US government to be honest.
This thread has two of my least favorite things: the endlessly tedious outdoor cat debate, and the pedantic "correction" about the difference between assault and battery that isn't even true in every jurisdiction (some just call everything assault), and definitely isn't true colloquially.
Thanks, I hate it. 😂
Crazy how many people are like "Cat just got wet, it'll be fine, but that kid was ASSAULTED"
Like, either the water is a big deal or it's not.
Yeah, seems like kind of a natural consequence.
obviously not happy about poor soggy kitty, but at the end of the day neither will die from getting wet, yet it's an amazing lesson of consequences for a child.
Actually talking with the child would be an amazing lesson on consequences.
It’s actually very much not, we don’t teach children not to do things by doing those things to them
Also, like, given Covid, given Trump and his supporters, given every other piece of news that reveals that America is populated almost entirely by heavily-armed neurotics with zero social responsibility, I don't know if you could trust that a stranger would appropriately discipline your kid.
I think learning by experience is a very good method of teaching.
right, but you do understand kids do things we don't want them to all the time. it's not if, it's when. therefore, looking on the bright side, it actually very much is.
Obviously? So you teach them. You institute appropriate consequences.
Doing it back to them just teaches them that it is an okay thing to do, if you’re mad at someone. If the child hits someone, are you going to hit them back?
of course not, but hitting and water are 2 different things, you surely understand this. have you not ever told a child 100 times not to do something, they do it still? obviously if it was like a literal baby there would be no point because they'd never remember, but if it's a child and it's harmless (which again, we're talking about water here, not hitting) i see no harm.
No, because I institute consequences for my kiddo and remove him from a situation if he shows that he can’t listen to instructions. You know, parenting.
If the water was harmless, then it wasn’t a problem for the cat either. By nature of being a cruel thing to do, it’s something you shouldn’t then do to the child. “I’ll do it to you” in no way teaches “this is a mean thing that we don’t do.”
i already clearly stated it was harmless for both, I'm sure you remember. this teaches the child why we don't pour water on the cat, see you're uncomfortable like the kitty now. I bet you that child doesn't pour water on anyone again. I'm not saying it's the preferred method or a method I would ever use, but y'all are acting like they poured acid on the child. nuance is completely lost on you apparently >.<
It does not. Children don’t develop that type of empathy for some time, so it’s a wildly ineffective way to teach.
No, I’m acting like it’s poor fucking parenting tactics. Which it is.
never said it was great parenting tactics. tbh i wouldn't call it a tactic at all, but those are your words not mine. and well it happened and it's still a solid lesson in empathy, they are still developing empathy you see. they don't completely lack it lmao
No I think it's great to teach a kid, "Being mean to an animal much smaller than you can result in a person much bigger than you responding."
If water is a big deal then you assaulted a child who assaulted your cat, which if you think is justified on an eye for an eye way then change it to "that toddler kicked my cat so I kicked the toddler" and see how far you can take it
If water isnt a big deal then why are you concerned your cat got splashed?
Because cats aren't the same as humans: the cat does NOT understand why it got water dumped on it and will feel threatened and genuinely hurt.
A child, who is much bigger and very likely WILL swim in water, and understands logic ,will NOT be threatened the same way a cat does. This is ALSO a consequence for what he did.
If I did something like this as a child, even I as a child woulf think "ah this is punishment for what I just did".
A behaviour where you hurt a smaller and weaker creature usually stems from curiosity and lack of empathy towards the lifr form. It is not a big deal because empathy is something thatcan be learned. This can be easily corrected when you're a child, and getting consequences for your lack of empathy is one of the ways to learn NOT to do something hurtful to an animal.
And this tier of vengeance is literally not that big. The kid will not die from having water dumped on them.
bro splashing water on somebody is not the same as kicking you
the fuck kind of statement is this.
also, I really do think people would learn much better is if they did something stupid, they just dealt with the consequences of their actions directly. continuing into adulthood. we call it malicious compliance or like perfect pro-revenge sometimes but that whole oh you did this to me so watch it happen back to you. shit perfect karma.
splashing a kid is different than kicking them and you're a fucking weirdo if you try and argue otherwise it's water. you don't do it because it's uncomfortable. I don't annoy my cat because he's a living being that deserves respect and I don't piss him off. please don't splash water on him. you don't like it either. and if you're crying about it, you're just giving evidence that you shouldn't have done it in the first place.
I don't know why that's hard to fucking understand
"If water isnt a big deal then why are you concerned your cat got splashed?"
You don't get to have it both ways, where the kid did something bad enough that deserved revenge in equal proportion but at the same time the revenge is fine because it's not anything worth caring about.
The consequence of splashing a cat with water is the cat getting angry, it is not being splashed by water by a deranged adult.
You're just using the exact same excuse of every parent who beats their child and calls it "consequences" and "teaching them a lesson".
Oh no random internet stranger pro-assaulting kids called me a weirdo. Whatever shall I dooooo. Next the internet pedophiles are going to call me weird too!
I don't hurt my cat because he's a living being that deserves respect and I don't hurt him. please don't kick him. you don't like it either. and if you're crying about me kicking yiu, you're just giving evidence that you shouldn't have kicked him in the first place.
See? Exact same thought process. You're just too much of an hypocrite to follow it to its conclusion because it makes you unconfortable to admit you're pro hurting children.
You clearly don't know a lot of things.
Alright, listen. A kid splashes water on a cat, and gets water splashed on them in turn.
If you can't help but compare that to physically beating a kid, you're a weirdo.
this isnt revenge... its showing the kid exactly why you dont pour water on things. letting kids fuck around and find out is a way of learning.
and yeah, i was right youre some sorta of weirdo. fucking reddit.
genuine question, how do you feel about Child Abuse Parks- oops, i mean Water Parks?
The same way I feel about giving a pet a bath versus throwing water on it.
Is what I'd say if that question was actually genuine and not you bending yourself backwards to find excuses for a grown woman assaulting a child.
Stop being a fucking weirdo.
no offense but you have just been trolled man.
i don't give a shit about the main topic of the thread (some chick dumping water on a child) i legitimately just thought how hard you were railing about this being equivalent to beating a child was funny as fuck
This comment section is so funny. You'd think the kid got beat half to death with how a lot of these people are reacting
Idj why you got downvoted lmao, you're right
reddit isnt a real place this might be all the social interaction they get and have a very uhh, strong moral compass of what is "right" and lack social understanding of nuance.
if you take the nuance out of their opinion it makes a bit of sense. spraying water can be assault. like if get out my hose and just start blasting people on the street, yes the cops should get called. like that would be good reason to call splashing people assault. i could go around with a hose and be a fucking meance. i could dump water on homeless and just overall cause havoc by getting people wet... but this isnt that is it? like you add in the nuance that it was punishment for making my cat uncomfortable or that they are near by their house and can change it sorta change the conversation. or at least for people i view as normal. or even equating getting someone wet outside their house and kicking them. those are not equal unless you can create nuance or a distinction between the two.
This is the opposite of nuance
https://tenor.com/view/modern-family-spray-squirt-annoyed-irritated-gif-4445288
If I'm going about my day and see a cat that got hit by a car, that's a bummer. If I see a kid that got hit by a car, that's a tragedy.
How many cats need to die for you to care?
Didn't say I didn't care, I specifically said it would be a bummer.
On one hand I understand the desire to throw water on a kid who did it to your cat on the other hand grow the fuck up.
i gotta question the sanity of anyone pouring random liquids on strange children from their window.
Redditors and not understanding nuance, name a better duo
Why are people in this thread seriously debating whether outdoor cats are good or not? Study after study has shown that, not only do outdoor cats prey on native wildlife (because remember, in many countries cats are technically an invasive species), the cats themselves are in great risk. Free-roaming outdoor cats have a much higher mortality rate thanks to predators, vehicles, diseases and parasites, poison, etc.
It's not cruel to keep a cat indoors as long as you give them plenty of attention and enrichment.
Idk but if you mention 'you should keep cats indoors' in UK subreddits it descends into 'that's American nonsense cats are fine outdoors'
(Like the stuff posted to my towns lost and found pet fb page would say otherwise but ok)
It's an argument that, in my experience, doesn't get very far, so I've stopped having it. I just point out that 1) My husky is secure in my yard, and cannot get out, 2) other people's cats can and do come into my yard sometimes, albeit less frequently since getting said husky, 3) my husky is not cat friendly, despite trying to socialize him with them when he was a puppy, and I'm as confident as I can be without it actually having happened that he would kill and possibly eat a cat if he caught one, and 4) legally speaking, I won't be considered at fault because my dog was properly secured, and your cat wasn't and came into my dog's home, while you'll still have a dead cat. Take from that information what you will.
It's a European thing in general, I find. Europeans will claim that the old world ecosystem is adapted to cats and there's no threat. If someone posts research showing otherwise, be it from an American or a fellow European, they'll never respond and yet you won't change their minds.
By no means do I think Europeans are stupid or that Americans don't also have issues that cause them to display willful ignorance, but on this topic you can clearly see people sticking their fingers in their ears when a cultural practice doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
People generally find it difficult to acknowledge that they can succumb to the same pitfalls as those they view as stupider than themselves.
To play devils advocate:
1) this is a highly American thing and many other cultures just don't believe this - I still think it's true, btw, I'm not arguing, but e.g., someone in Turkey is not going to be able to take in the 200000s of street cats.
2) rural people keep barn cats for practical reasons and most people are fairly hesitant to speak out against this as it is, after all, what initially led to domestication to begin with.
I think its a very american thing. The only place I've come across this 'outdoor cats are evil' opinion is on reddit. I live in a fairly small village and there's a lot of cats roaming outside. Farmers don't bother as they keep mice and rats under control. I'm not going to lose sleep over dead wood pigeons, even less as they're vermin.
My biggest worry is Mink that occasionally invade the rivers but they're an invasive species and a couple of folk have traps out for them along the river bank.
Bird conservation is very much not exclusively an American thing.
also America has lots of feral cat populations too
Conservation is definitely global, but the context is completely different depending on where you are.
In the old world cats and local wildlife has co-evolved together for thousands of years, the common house cat has been traveling with humans since the pre-neolithic times. There are even several native cat species, they are not a chock to the system like they are in the Americas or Australia.
In the context of Turkey (which is earlier in this thread) the common house cat is literally a native species, there has never been a bird population not evolved to live along side the cat population.
This is where my proposed AITA classification “not an asshole, but will ruin your life” comes in handy. If it’s a slow day, the cops might consider getting mad at you for dumping a basin of water on a toddler. They will not care about a cat getting splashed.
Also stfu British people about your outdoor cat, you had a whole “serial animal killer psychopath” that turned out just to be your beloved
strays you feedpets getting run over by cars and eaten by foxesIf anyone is skeptical, the whole "cat serial killer was actually cats being killed by natural causes" thing is real btw.
They thought the cats were being killed with knives bc of marks on bones, but a lot of highly carnivorous animals (foxes, for instance) have bladed “carnassial” premolars instead of grinding ones like us
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There are tons of indoor cats outside America. Outside America is a big place.
So you don't care how many animals your cat kills?
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It's hilarious the mental gymnastics you assholes will go through to avoid any responsibility for allowing your pet to kill wildlife.
Imagine if a loose husky was bringing back dead roe deer fawns, or chasing hares. Brits would go mad over it, but when a cat does so it’s fine
Its also so much worse for the cat.
Getting a pet is entirely optional
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I feel like a lot of people get cats as pets because they feel like they're low maintenance. They don't understand that they're responsible for the cats enrichment and mental well-being.
They only care about them when they want a cuddle. Otherwise it's more convenient to leave them outside and forget about them.
your cat is going to get eaten by a hobo.
The cops aren't going to care about a kid getting water splashed on them lmao. They'll tell the parent to be glad their kid got a free bath.
Dumping water on a kid who dumped water on a cat seems like it'd a good way to teach them not to do that shit. The consequences relate directly to the action, and it can give them some more empathy towards cats. You probably shouldn't do this to a toddler, though. And you shouldn't use a whole basin of water. And, like, try talking it out first. But anyway the lady in the OG post was mostly in the right here.
Edit: Yes, talking to children is the best way to teach them. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm not telling people to pour a pot of water over their kid every time they mess up, I'm saying that giving a kid (harmless) consequences that relate to their misdeeds are a good way to teach them how they messed up (ALONGSIDE telling them). Stuff like having a kid help fix a bike they broke. Having them write an essay on why bullying sucks if they've been a bully. Y'know, normal parenting?
You can actually talk to a child as they are human beings.
Did you read my comment
Yes. Its not a good way. Talking to them is.
To quote MY OWN COMMENT
"And like, you should talk to them first."
Yes, talking to children is the best way to teach them. Guess what! There's other ways too. I'm not telling people to pour a pot of water over their kid every time they mess up, I'm saying that giving a kid (harmless) consequences that relate to their misdeeds are a good way to teach them how they messed up. Stuff like having a kid help fix a bike they broke. Having them write an essay on why bullying sucks if they've been a bully. Y'know, normal parenting?
Yeah i read that part. It doesnt change what I said. Thats what I was responding to.
There are tons of ways of giving kids consequences by actually talking with and teaching them that dont resort to acting like a child and getting revenge by dunking water.
You can also dunk water on them as revenge because fuck the human being for doing something shitty
Ah, I’ve gotta disagree with you here. If the kid is old enough to understand language, communicating to them with language will be far more effective. Inflicting fear and discomfort on a child only teaches them that you are the thing to be afraid of.
Oh I am completely fine with a 10 yo being afraid of me if he attacks my pet.
Oh 1000% that’s fair. But there’s a huge difference between being an outsider protecting someone from a kid, and being the kid’s guardian trying to teach him.
That's my take on it. If this were my son doing this, I would never consider dumping water on him as a punishment. That said, if the owner of the cat dumped water on him in retaliation, I'd consider it a good life lesson and an opportunity to talk to him about not antagonizing people or their pets.
Bingo. It doesn’t matter to an outsider if he learns “don’t dump water on pets because that’s cruel and cruel is bad”, because an outsider doesn’t have to deal with that kid again.
Fully agree with you there
Do you think throwing water is an attack? Like at least be consistent.
Not sure splashing some water on a kid is even in the same realm as "inflicting fear"
Sure as hell isn’t communicating.
Or actually teaching
I mean, sorta? It's liquid communication!
I sure as hell wouldn't mind "inflicting fear" if it means that fear would make tje person NOT do something bad
I bet your children are insufferable.
This is a really gross comment.
Know what's really gross? A 10-year-old that doesn't know better than to throw water at someone else's pet on someone else's property. Only communication that parent needs to do is say, between guffaws, "Ya learn anything?"
Edit: This person replied to two of my comments then blocked me. Classy.
I'm not defending the 10 year old.
Im commenting on you making gross remarks about another commenter kids. Thats fucked up
If you think yours are obedient because they’re quiet, they’re just sneaky.
Not a parent and even I know that the kids getting quiet is a bad sign.
Yet you're giving parental advice, nice.
Except I'm not. Where did I tell anyone what to do?
Is English your first language? I don't think you read that well.
I want some of whatever “the law doesn’t say cannibalism is illegal but….” Is smoking. I’m fairly certain that cannibalism is, in fact, very strongly illegal
No, actually - cannibalism is not technically illegal in the US, with the exception of Idaho. Everything leading up to cannibalism is illegal - i.e. murder, desecration of a corpse, etc. - but not cannibalism itself.
It's not and most instances of cannibalism are people trying to survive, like that rugby team in Uruguay.
There are rules about desacrating corpses though.
I don't think there's anything complex about this. The kid was being a jerk and got a fair consequence, but don't let your cats run wild, either, because it's bad for both the cat and the local environment.
Multiple things can be true at the same time.
Can someone who’s more educated on conservation tell me if this whole cats being invasive shtick is overblown? When Reddit users start parroting points and being really obtuse about it like in the linked thread it’s seems to be overstated
Like I totally believe and can get them being a problem in certain areas but are the habitats of suburban American being terrorized by the tyranny of stray cats
Hello yes, I'm happy to help as someone educated in conservation.
So, the issue with outside cats is pretty massive, especially in places like North America and Australia, but even more so on island nations. We can definitively link them to the extinction of at least 63 vertebrate species (so anything with a spine aka birds, small mammals, lizards etc.)
Even more species are at risk because of cats who are killing billions of animals (per year, not an exaggeration).
The problem stems from two major things (imo). First, cats are super efficient hunters who also don't just hunt for food. That is why we domesticated them. Having a creature that will kill pests was great for agriculture, and cats are very, very good at their job.
So, you have an incredibly deadly predator running around having multiple litters with multiple kittens for years. Yes, many of those cats will in turn be preyed upon, but not in numbers that will at all effect anything in a meaningful way.
The other issue is that they are invasive. The way I like to visualize this is imagine someone airlifting a lion into a sheep pen. While water buffalo and antelope have been evolving for millions of years to coexist with lions, sheep haven't.
Not only do these animals not know how to avoid these strange killing machines, but studies also show that there is literally so much fear in these prey animals that, even when cats aren't killing all of them, the prey are just not breeding because it puts them at greater risk of being killed by a cat. That's called "ecology of fear" if you want to read more about it, one study found it reduced urban bird populations by like 90% through fear alone.
As for what you mentioned about suburbia, the fact is that we coexist with birds. We can't just tell the endangered birds not to live in the suburbs and, even if we could, there are cats everywhere.
TLDR: it is not overblown even a little bit. Cats are arguably doing as much if not more damage than humans.
Also before someone mentions wildcats, those generally eat larger prey like rabbits, have much less dense populations, don’t have piles of kibble put out for them during winter, don’t get vet care, and don’t have an army willing to kill every last animal that might eat them.
Anywhere there are birds, outdoor cats are an issue. Its also so much more dangerous for the cat.
It's not overblown in some areas and is greatly overblown in others. Like most things there is nuance. Every cat is different and every environment is different. Plenty of cats just nap in the sun and only eat kibble. Most of the United States a has a TNR program that neuters stray cats and releases them outside and they kill many animals. Cats are invasive but so are humans and until all humans move back to Africa my cat will have the option to go outside.
You understand the situation lol
I really love how I've been on this sub long enough to where I see a post somewhere, laugh at it and continue on with my life, then see a post on here later about the comments on said post so it's like a special encore. Another reason why SRD is my all-time favorite
In non urban areas cat's roam free. Never heard that shit that all cat's are supposed to be inside only.
I wonder when and how the whole "Cats shouldn't be outside; they kill tons of birds" actually started. I didn't start hearing it until about a dozen years back, give or take, and Reddit is the only place I've ever heard about it.
Australia’s problems with cats has made the news.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
You link to that study, but you ignore the fact that it says, "Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality."
Feral cats are generally not spayed or neutered, so their population increases based on availability of food and environmental hazards. A spayed or neutered cat going outside isn't meaningfully contributing to the population of outdoor cats.
The effect of outdoor cats also varies a lot based on where you live. A study in Birmingham found that outdoor cats were mostly killing birds that were probably going to die soon, anyway.
So I grew up on a farm and we had indoor-outdoor cats. The cats were in charge of pest control, neutered/spayed, but also were sluts that liked to sleep on your chest.
We had one cat named Troubles that was ancient. He had one eye, a “bad” ear, a “sick”tail, and if you were going to pet him, you had to stop at around the shoulders because he had been struck by a car and had back problems. He had been declawed, front and back. I was a child so don’t come at me, but this cat went hunting for trouble. Killed a ton of snakes, I don’t know how much Bactine he got sprayed on him after he drug a snake carcass up, bites all over. So many times. He truly had 9 lives. But he also would catch birds, at first I think to teach my mother how to hunt, and then when she wasn’t getting it to teach me. He’d bring them in various stages, starting at very alive, moving in to slowly being crippled, and then dead. Just trying to help. And this was my stepdad’s house cat from the city before we moved out to the farm. And that’s just what I got to see.
So a house cat with one eye and a bad back and no claws at all (so crippled paws) could easily snatch a bird, bring it back, paw at the door, and drop a fully capable bird, after it got over the shock, at my feet.
The cats are out and they’re hunting.
We had twin Siamese, they also were half in and out, just front claws gone, one got bit by a snake and got neurological damage. The other got kicked in the head by a deer and it just blew her poor skull out.
These were cats that had access to indoors, food, water, soft beds, vet appointments. They will go look for trouble.
So if you have a pet cat, unless you have a rodent problem that will keep them constantly occupied, keep them inside.
It happens but know what I don't see when I'm hiking, even at a decent sized public park? Cats. They don't exist without humans. And where they do exist, like human settlements, we've removed all the other predators.
Cats are terrible on islands and if you live in a city and like to watch birds.
you don't see ambush predators that have evolved for stealth and camouflage while you're hiking?
weird
You can't honestly believe cats exist out in the woods...
For real. People froth at the mouth about this one here, and I had never heard or even considered it until then. My cat is indoor only except when she gets out occasionally, just in case somebody is about to come for me
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Morals aside, some bird species are lost forever, but cows aren't going anywhere lol
The argument for cats killing wildlife is valid but cats deserve to be outside too. Also, I'm sure that problem as a whole mostly refers to feral cats rather than domestic cats chilling on a gate.
Cats deserve to be looked after
They deserve to be outside with cars, predators, disease, injury, and evil people?
Way to miss the entire point of "domestic cats chilling on a gate."
Cats and cars can avoid each other. Cats can avoid predators, injury can happen to anyone or any living thing, and unless someone is truly trying to trap and capture cats, there's little chance they'd be caught, so the whole "evil people" point only matters if there are cat hunters that exist in the world
I’ve seen cats not being able to avoid cars, and they didn’t deserve to die in such a way. Predators also absolutely hunt and kill cats (also a horrible way to die), and the risk of general injury and disease isn’t worth it (if you actually care about your cat, that is). When I was a child, a neighbor killed my two cats by poisoning them. There are also people who proudly kill or torture stray cats. The dangers are real. I grew up and never risked my cats ever again. It’s beyond selfish and irresponsible to put them in danger by letting them outside.
Nobody said they deserved to die like that, in any case if what you mentioned. I never said cats would always avoid everything I mentioned, and people trapping cats is just messed up so if you wanna use that as a gotcha point then I guess you're right. And again, I said in the back/front yard.
Actually, I didn't say it, but the whole "gate" argument should prove what I implied, being that it's generally in the yard.
Good, we agree they don’t deserve any of that harm! So don’t let them outside.
Yes, animals that want to be outside don't deserve to be outside.
Exactly. Dogs want to roam outside as well, but most people understand why that’s bad. Same thing with cats. They don’t understand the dangers they face. Kinda like children. They always want to run out into the road, but we don’t let them because they could die.
But dogs and children can be allowed outside. But cats are a no-go. They aren't allowed shit. Fuck them felines, right?
Dogs go outside with leashes. Some kids do as well. You can let cats out if they’re on a leash or even in one of those cat strollers. It’s not “fuck then felines” just because they can’t wreak havoc on the ecosystem or possibly die horrifically, please be serious.
What always gets me about this debate is how US-centric it feels.
My cat is outside all day, in my backyard. Its a small 3x3 meters cube in the middle of a metropolis. Songbirds stay in the park 5 blocks down and almost never come even close. There are no predators for my cat to be in danger. He does occasionally kill lizards which I try to avoid, that is the extent of it.
Why don't I leash my cat and take him outside for a walk? Unleashed dogs for one, having to move through some unclean areas that might have glass shards or similar on the ground, and just the general risk of him slipping away.
Now, if you live in the stereotypical US suburb sure, try to avoid letting your cat out for several reasons, but let's not overstate the effect of cats on bird populations and ignore urbanization, deforestation and contamination.
To be fair, outdoor cats are quite a problem in Australia as well. But I'm not going to pretend that makes it a universal problem.
Yeah, cats can be damaging to wildlife if they can reach it
I'm sure even in parts of my country that are far less urbanized, cats can be problematic.
Still, nowhere near deforestation, livestock grazing, and even introduced species that are actually living in the wild/reservartions. Like, we have non-endemic foxes, fish, conifers and berry bushes overtaking native forest...
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
Crazy. I would have guessed "the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals" is people eating livestock. Seems like we're ignoring the "single greatest source of birds and mammals not being born at all", which would be habitat destruction and probably pollution/climate change.
Next time you're driving between large cities, look perpendicular to the interstate. That's a massive ton of land, and it's free of cats.
Livestock and outdoor cats can both be bad for the environment. I dont understand how this is a gard concept to grasp.
Don't be as selfish as you sound. Take responsibility for your cat.
You sound like you use paper straws.
Free-ranging cats, mostly unowned. That's what the abstract says.
My outside cat is not "free-ranging", I mentioned quite clearly my backyard is a "3x3 meter cube". That smaller than most prison cells. The neighbours can see him standing on the fence wall, and at most he can move to the next 3x3 cube over before a 12 mts tall wall stops him in his tracks.
He could, at most, kill a random bird that just so happened to land here. Except it hasn't happened yet, and odds are it never will.
Sure, you're probably fine.
But you're repeating the same selfish rhetoric all "outdoor" cat owners do.
It doesn't matter how many animals Mr.Kibbles kills, he'll be sad if he's not allowed to murder wildlife!
The "rethoric" that 99.9% of the world is not a north american suburb?
If your reading comprehension is this bad, I think your cat has given you toxoplasmosis. Get checked for brain damage.
Here's a summary, it doesn't matter where you live:
• We don't want your cats loose killing wildlife.
• We don't want your cat shit in our gardens
• We don't want your cats messing with our kids.
• We don't want your cats wailing outside our houses having orgies with strays.
You wanted a cat, be responsible for it.
cause we can actually keep a native bird population in tact, ya anyway fucked yours it sounds like.
Its impossible to maintain a native bird population in the heart of a 16 million people metropolis, cats or no cats.
Exactly, they never even consider that it's different outside the USA.
I used to have a cat she lived for 20 years. Loved to take naps in the sun outside. Never went too far from the house and at most killed mice. When she got older she stopped doing that too.
I can't imagine confining her to a few rooms and at best a balcony and I find leashing a cat cruel. It's not a dog, they behave differently.
Oh no, not the outdoor cat drama topic again. Some people are just unable to comprehend different cultures or styles of living so you'll get a lot of way no matter what stance you take
One of the only times I have to give kudos to an outside cat owner
If I ever see a cat on my property I make sure to get it with the hose. They need to know not to take nasty shits all over my yard, water teaches them fast.
This is how I know you don't live in America, cause there are people crazy enough to just start blasting over someone spraying their cat with a hose here lol
I do live in America but cat owners and gun owners have very little overlap and the murder rate of the city I live in is .04 per 1000.
Dang, your city sounds nice compared to a lot of cities here.
You make pussies wet.
Getting revenge on a toddler...
Oh man I why did I have to see this thread here instead of there? I love riling up the "cats are bad for the environment when outside" people.
Hear me out: I like hiking way out in the woods. Know what I don't see when I'm more than a half mile from civilization? Cats. I don't even see cats at local parks. Those dumb little buggers just aren't smart or industrious enough to be truly invasive.
This is such a cartoonishly anti intellectual understanding of how environmentalism works.
I'm sure it doesn't make much sense if your idea of "the environment" is a city street or your backyard in suburbia.
It doesn't make sense if you have any idea of how conservation or cats work.
I don’t think “they don’t bother me in the middle of the woods” is how invasive species are measured
Do we "measure" invasive species? That sounds weird.
If we were to measure "invasiveness", what units would we use and how many of those units would be "doesn't exist more than a half mile from where humans live"?
Edit: Of course they answered and blocked me, because they're too stupid to know that I can still see their reply.
Here's my reply: See, I don't deny it's a problem. It's the "huge" problem I don't believe. You can literally walk hundreds of miles through the woods and not see a cat. You'll see European starlings, kudzu, feral hogs, but you won't see cats.
We measure all species. That's how we know that outdoor cats are a huge problem.