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Compared to how the characters dress starting as early as Season 2 (but more pronoucned Season 3 onward), I like how their wardrobes look so much more subdued
It really fit with the show. Season 1 feels so much more grounded than the other seasons
Season 1 and 2 the time period still serves mainly as a backdrop. Sure, you get some references here and there, but the show doesn't go out of it's way to really hammer the viewer over the head with them. I always skip the episode with 8 so I won't comment on that one. S3 you get all the usual 80's references. The clothes. The media. The culture.
The neverending story and new coke scenes get shoved in your face. They're painful and serve no purpose except to remind us they were a thing.
Very honest question for you: did you live through the 80s? My biggest gripe with S2 is that it is too referential, to the point it feels like I can't go 5 mins without another one, and therefore feels too crutchy to me.
I guess thinking back on it s2 does have a lot more references, but I feel like they're integrated into the story better. Things like the kids dressing up as ghostbusters for Halloween. Which is what kids did back then. Or the arcade. Which of course is something those 4 would be into.
But if you set this story in a more modern era those things would still be relevant to kids. They'd just be a different flavor. Instead of dressing up as ghostbusters they might dress up as stranger things characters. Instead of an arcade, they'd play video games online. Sure those activies are dripping in an 80s skin, but they're still a backdrop for the characters to interact in. They're not front and center being waived in your face. Most of the time. Radio shack gets brought up too much lol.
Yeah, the Ghostbusters stuff I thought was fun! It was well-integrated and made sense.
Some of the things I'm thinking of:
Dart not being able to handle light is a Gremlins thing, which is reinforced heavily by the Gremlins-adjacent music that plays when he escapes the club room.
The pumpkins stuff is a loose reference to Halloween 3.
When Max is the one driving in the pumpkin patch, that's Temple of Doom.
They tell Bob they need to find X, which is a reference to the Goonies, though that one is really sweet and lovely cuz it's Sean Astin.
Paul Reiser also has a fun call back to Aliens.
The Exorcist is allll over that season.
So is E.T. again. Although El as a ghost had me giggling.
The Shining, Thriller, the Thing, Poltergeist, Super 8 and Close Encounters, etc etc etc. All kinds of references.
Anyway, I don't mind some of it. But then it felt like too much at other times, like back to back references that were there instead of more original ideas. I asked you, though, because I just don't know if I am being overly sensitive or not! Like did most people pick up on it all or nah? You know?
Although Bob's hero moment being straight lifted from Jurassic Park, a 90s flick, is a goddamn crime in my opinion. Lol
Its sad because it also means they did less with Nancy and Steve in s4. They tried the love triangle back for the sake of them having something to do, and it only pushed their characters backwards
It would have been interesting for them to have a chat about the past, and like close things in a more peaceful and amicable way. Maybe Steve still holding some feelings and feeling conflicted but acting as a respectful person while she BY HERSELF figures out things. For me what felt horribly wrong was Steve directly telling Nancy a date proposal when she is still in a relationship. Like… they haven’t seen or talked each other for a while, he isn’t even interested in her and how she has changed in this time, and what he does instead of asking that is to start to talk with her about having kids??? Wtf jajaja
That is indeed crazy, especially because Robin further tries to get the two together, and I was at various points feeling like ''Nancy... aren't you gonna tell off this girl who is saying you should break up with your current to go back to your ex?''.
To me, it just makes Steve's character go backwards: he was the jock in season 1-2, and it was learning that those social constructs don't matter much that made him evolve further in season 3, and that season was his ''rock bottom'': he was being ''punished'' for being bad at school, except now he wasn't popular with the girls and constantly made fun of. Steve had to find himself again after season 3, and he did, specially with the help of Robin, who made him realize being himself and finding someone who really means something to you was the most important part of his romantic pursuit. It feels really bad to get to season 4, Steve is back to being popular with women because of that healthy mindset... but its used to make him want to go back to his problematic ex. Its so weird
I’m wondering if it’s not even a love triangle. I wonder if it’s essentially gonna be something along the lines of (awkward dialogue) “I’m not trying to win her back from you, but I am trying to prove to myself that you’re not better than me for taking her”.
Exactly! It does nothing for either of them. You mean to tell me that for roughly 18 months, these two goobers have been competing for Nancy's attention?
I’d say you look at the execution with that and the execution hasn’t been great. It’s actually weird because we seem to see Steve go through a whole end of relationship process from when they break up in season 2 through to season 4 kickstarting it again. The relationship is struggling and it’s not dumb teenager stuff, they break up, he’s sad, he wants her back, he finds a distraction and forms new relationships/hobbies (Dustin & co), he comes to some peace with it and lets her go, he’s trying to move on (ahoy, ladies), he has a new crush (Robin, lol) and then to start season 4 he’s dating again. Only for him to get regressed to wanting Nancy again and undoing a lot of character work. Nancy who has moved on gets regressed into a centre of a love triangle with Jonathan in California, which is her catching feelings for someone else while in a relationship Again. So now Nancy apparently hasn’t had any lasting development on that front either.
the Steve character arc is exactly true. I hate that they regress his character. He's the older one in the group.. his love interest shoudl come from elswhere. In addition to the other points you mention.
And, Nancy is just too ambitious and future thinking for Jonathan. She's going places. He is not. Which is fine. But, they are NOT couple material.
Yeah, him being older really does make it a bit worse. He’s been outside of the school bubble even if he’s in a small town.
My perhaps miserable ass would be perfectly happy if none of the couples ended up together by the end, but Nancy and Jonathan in particular seem to have gone in very different directions. He was more ambitious before in that they said he wanted to go to NYU and he had that internship at the paper with Nancy, and I think journalist+photographer was supposed to go together, but now they live in different States and he stopped being that guy. She also doesn’t fit with Steve like that so… let Nancy be free.
The thing is… I think that Jonathan’s arc is precisely to come back to his dreams and go with Nance.
The reason why Jonathan is holding back is because he feels responsible for Will… and like, Jonathan is not Will’s father! He is not responsible and Will is in the beginning of his young adulthood and has a lot of other people he can rely on. He is not alone.
That this change of personality in Jonathan happens when Will is a teenager and no longer reaches out to him like he used to is not a coincidence.
Jonathan does not longer feel needed by him, and that is confusing the hell out of Jonathan and this is why in S4 he is a freaking mess. Because he relied of feeling needed by his family to feel okay with himself. (I understand him because I was that kinda person that took refuge in being overly responsible and never have fun… not with my family but with other things).
IMO is not because he wants to stay and he changed. He is confused, that is what was stablished, because he has always being the person that is fully selfless and doesn’t think about himself at all (Joyce actually still reinforces this!!), so now he feels bad when he finally is thinking about himself and what he wants.
I think that he feels uncomfortable when he is pursuing something selfishly due to the trauma of being parentified and everything that has happened.
He starts thinking: what if I leave and mom needs my help with Will?
Now that Will is shown to be empowered and powerful, someone that can fend for himself, Jonathan is going to crash out even moooreee..
At least this is how I see it.. I wonder if this is the direction they are thinking lmao. But for me it’s the thing that makes the most sense.
I can see that perspective for Jonathan but I think you can argue that it’s escapism for him. He was parentified before the show even started and traumatized throughout the show’s run. He’s just been put through hell mentally and found a way to escape having to deal with his feelings via smoking a tonne of pot. He needs therapy to start processing all of it more than he’s being held back by feeling responsible for Will. If anything, Season 4 starts with Joyce having a better paying job and doing better along with Will being older, but Jonathan is checked out. The time when he could be focusing on himself more has him rudderless and we don’t see him taking any steps to help himself. I know it’s the 80s but the way he’s responded to all that trauma sends him away from Nancy’s path.
Maybe he gets back on the Nancy track but it’s much broader than not wanting to focus on himself.
The thing is, that from my pov and interpretation of the character, that things are fine, that Joyce has a job and that everything is stable actually makes Jonathan more emotionally unstable, because all his life he has lived in survive mode, and has never had the chance to look inward at himself. That peace feels foreign even.
I was not talking about “focusing on himself” in the way you are understanding it. Sorry if I didn’t explained well, but the avoidance thing you mention was my point. When you use drugs to avoid your own emotions because you don’t know how to deal with them. He always pushed that to the side because there were very important things to deal with.
Now, that he is able to have more time and be more free, he uses marihuana and avoidance because he never learned how to deal with things beyond emergencies, and now he has all these emotions inside that are not dealt from a lot of time ago, and he doesn’t know how to deal with that.
This is why he doesn’t know what to do with his life. He feels fear of seeing Nancy, fear of going to uni, emotion for seeing Nancy, emotion for going to uni, also maybe wants to be there around for longer because he has never enjoyed being in family or having time for leisure. How do you know what you want when your emotions are incomprehensible?
My take is that when he confronts that he will realize what he wants, and you are right that what Jonathan ends up deciding might be not to go to college… but I would prefer if he returns to his hobbie of photography or to see him returning more to his own self again. Since when he was a kid and before he suffered so much he had big dreams, I would like to see him pursuing them again. It would be poetic and show that we can heal and return to our previous selves even after so much pain. But of course it’s not the only possible satisfying ending for Jonathan, he can also find something else that makes him happier.
We also need to see what character evolution Nancy has, and wether they can meet each other at the end or not. I wouldn’t dislike if none of them end up together actually, as long as they end up in a good place.
I think they may have written themselves into a corner with Robin being gay, at the time it was not necessary and it probably would have been a more satisfying conclusion for them to have gotten together then at the end of season 3. Maybe a greater writer could have made it all work
I think Robin being gay was good for Steve having a friend closer to his own age and it’s important for Will’s journey in season 5. Plus a show can only have so many romantic relationships before it gets insanely tedious. The issue, imo, is more that they haven’t always been great at using their show time so things get neglected. Hopper in russia dragged for me, the gang of basketball players looking for Eddie really didn’t need that much time to be bland as hell, the love triangle redux has eaten up time in itself, etc. They could have repurposed some of the show’s runtime to handle Steve’s love life better or just left him okay with being single. Other characters could have gotten a bit more time for things like fleshing Lucas out more, making Will less of a plot device or figuring out what to do with Jonathan as his own character.
That's what I meant, they are not good enough writers to tie in so many different threads and the whole of season 3 read to me as if they were supposed to get together and some wise ass went like BUT WHAT IF SHE'S GAY
Maybe, but Robin being gay ties in well with Will and revisiting the love triangle. Season 3 definitely ran a misdirect on Robin not ending up with Steve, but I think it was the better writing choice. The guy needs a friend who isn’t noticeably younger and the show needs a female character who isn’t paired with one of the male leads. Robin not being with Steve and being completely removed from being a love interest is really important for not slotting every female character into that mold.
I think that whole argument about needing a friend his own age is kind of stupid, cause why what does that show us or tell us about the character, we know he can make friends, alright now we know he can make friends his own age it's superfluous, what the guy wasn't able to do was build a healthy relationship, that's why Robin fit in nicely
The execution of the whole Robin is gay thing was horrendous, for it to be a good twist it should have recontextualized things things through out the season, it's not a good twist if it comes out of nowhere and ties back to nothing. She was slotted into that love interest roll she was written like that it's just that for whatever reason at the end they said nope lol, that's why her characterization is all over the place in latter seasons, they do not know what to do with her, she was introduced as this very cool very smart person, that character no longer exists in the show, she's now a classic klutz
And yes it ties into Will's story now 2 seasons and however many years later that's whatever
What if Steve and Robin did end up together because of their trauma bond which later on let Steve and Jonathan be at ease with each other and they become friends (also with Nancy) There you go no terribly executed twist, Steve is shown to be able to make friends with people his age and characters all fulfill their narrative purpose OR you write a good gay character instead of Robin
Because we only ever see him with his shitty high school friends who aren’t really seen after season 1. As much as the show likes to shoehorn romantic relationships everywhere they can, friendship is a core theme of it. Barb dying sets off Nancy’s crusade and Jonathan occupies the loner slot where it’s a point you don’t see him with any friends until season 4. Robin fills that hole for Steve and gives him someone to bounce off who isn’t Dustin who isn’t his peer. It’s not like an already semi bloated show should have been adding a new friend and a gf for him either.
I mean, the execution is that we only see her at work and she was closeted in high school in small town Indiana in the 80s. It makes sense for it not to be broadcasted until she’s semi forced to come out. The characterization issues are writing issues because even if they pivoted from her as a love interest, they should still be able to make the character be consistent and well used in the show. They’ve also struggled with Jonathan pretty badly and he’s a straight love interest from day one. Hopper goes from flawed in season 1 crazy in 2 and 3. Straight Robin wouldn’t fix the “hmmm, not sure what to do with this character. Chaos?” problems throughout the show.
I think it’s a good thing to see things like that connecting over time. It’s not like Will possibly being gay wasn‘t touched on in season 1 and then given real weight in season 3 when Robin is introduced. Her being gay and the “you don’t even like girls” in the same season shows some intentionality.
Jonathan who moves to California at the end of season 3? They missed the window to do that even if Robin were Steve’s love interest. If they tried to wait that out until season 5 then it’s 3 seasons of Steve having Dustin as his soul friend. There’s also the issue that they just aren’t great at writing romantic relationships. Some messiness makes sense given their ages and trauma, but every romantic relationship in the show becomes an issue. Robin as a love interest likely would have been just as much of a shit show as the rest are.
No no no… the platonic friendship between Robin and Steve is like one of the best things this show has ever done. I don’t care if these three are going to end up split, but I need my bestie duo.
Yeah like… for me it seems that it’s implied that he never really got over Nancy. But I feel it could be explored in other way. Like, see him trying to be a good friend and respect the relationship but being conflicted with his feelings.
Other people have suggested since he is alone and his dating has gone wrong, he just feels lonely and clings to the last partner he had. It makes sense.
I would have preferred to see him more going in other direction like, moving on, but they went this other way.
Maybe have Jonathan be jealous, but Steve NOT trying to pursue Nancy and then having him telling Jonathan to get his shit together. I would have preferred something like that. This would have shown growth from Steve’s part. In Jonathan’s case it would be good to see him be silly, because he had to grow too fast and was kinda parentified, so now he is being more irresponsible and doing the emotional maturity labor that he didn’t did before.
I think initially he wasn’t over her but we see him grow to being over her only for that to be undone. On the other hand, Nancy was sure as hell over Steve very quickly. They had to regress both characters to do this.
I think it’s just lazy love triangle writing more than anything that can be dissected about the character, tbh. You can try and say Nancy likes the new Steve and Jonathan is far away; Steve is harder because we’ve seen him progress through getting over Nancy over two seasons. Even him feeling lonely is kind of like… he’s only added relationships since they broke up. It’s obviouly not scratching that romantic itch but it’s not a situation where I think it makes sense to go back to pining for his high school gf.
They could have gone some awkward but funny misunderstanding route where Jonathan thought there was interest but it was some stupid misunderstanding. Or they just met in the middle of who they were and who they are now to be friends when around each other. Steve and Nancy being actual friends would have been a good final step for those two to end their journey more than anything.
Maybe homage isn’t the right word since it’s nothing specific but ST makes a lot of choices that are “in the spirit” of 80s movies and I think that includes some corny writing tropes.
Yeah like… it seems she is with Jonathan nontheless but he is insecure that she will return to Steve I think. Like, it’s not a love triangle in the conventional sense but I think they could have done something more interesting between these three. Still… maybe there is something more beyond the surface of what we have seen.
I need a spin-off where this happens. Like, Nancy and Jonathan traveling around while Steve tags along with them to look for the love of his live or something cheesy like that
Add Robin and you’d have a full human set of mystery INC. Complete with the socially awkward stoner, privileged woman who becomes more of a competent fighter/femme fatal as the franchise continues, nerdy red head, non conventional jock, and constant rumors that they’re all in a polyamorous relationship.
I just saw fan art the other day of Scoops Troop/the older kids reimagined as Scooby-Doo characters (Steve as Fred, Nancy as Daphne, Robin as Velma, and Jonathan as Shaggy) lol
Yeah after seeing Dustin mope around for most of volume 1 but seeming to be getting his mojo back I don’t think anyone wants to see him take another blow like that.
But tbh that’s the only thing giving me confidence Steve won’t die because outside of that it does almost seem like they’re setting him up to make a sacrifice.
I agree, but tbh they have done this with Steve every season, even Season 4 we all thought he died at one point, if they wanted to pull the trigger on him dying they would’ve already I think
That’s true. I was so sure Steve would die last season that I honestly think it was the original plan then they got cold feet about killing off such a popular character and brought Eddie in just to be the stand in to deliver that emotional moment.
And they also didn’t seem to have a great way to fit Steve into this season so far. If they only kept him around for him to kill time with the love triangle nonsense until they kill him anyway this season they might as well have just done it last season. If they’re keeping him around it better be to give him an ending he deserves.
Completely agree. Joe Keery has stated fans will be very happy with his characters ending, and that he himself has said he’s very happy with it. The next episode “Shock Jock” is apparently Joe’s favorite of the whole season for Steve; which semi makes me worried lol
Isn't the final episode supposed to be 2 and a half hours or something? It is a lot to cover, but on paper having 5 plus hours is a decent chunk to work with. Easier said than done.
Oh, i don't doubt its possible, i doubt its possible on the Duffer Brothers hands. They had 13 hours for season 4 and they barely did anything with the 3 of them
Well tbf one of them spent most of the season halfway across the country. That’s not going to be an obstacle this time. Everything can easily get patched up and worked out in volume 2. Then they have a full feature length movies worth of time to have them work together. Think about how much can happen over the course of a movie. Especially a movie they go into it with the ground work already set.
That said though I’d rather see Steve and Dustin patch things back up and team up again. The gift and curse of stranger things is that there’s so many characters they can only prioritize certain tan ups and interactions. I just want them to put this love triangle thing behind them. And one big moment with the three main older teens to establishing their friendship is all I need. Having the 3 of them spending a lot of time together isn’t a priority for me in the end game. Idk why we’re all the sudden treating this as something that needs to be a priority.
Well tbf one of them spent most of the season halfway across the country.
Yes, that's kinda my point: that was just a bad decision. Most people seem to think the California crew was the worst part of the season by far, as no one did anything and they barely developed
Again, I don't doubt they will try to do it, what I doubt is that they will be able to make it good - they haven't been able to do shit with Jonathan for 3 seasons now. Its not about it being a priority, its about making 3 of the main characters have anything interesting going on for them besides a weak love triangle. Nancy already has that with the Holly plot, Jonathan and Steve do not
Yeah totally agree with you on the Cali plot. I thought the whole thing was pointless.
I did think Steve’s story in the last season was great aside from the love triangle thing. I thought the dynamic with him and Eddie was good too. Unlike they’ve done with him and Jonathan they actually did do a good job of developing the arc of their relationship. And I thought Nancy’s could have been if they made her and Steve’s thing very clear that they only rekindled a friendship and respect and nothing more. This season yeah, they’ve all been stuck in the mud so far. Hopefully they have a better plan for them in the next batch of episodes.
i hate the fucking triangle bullshit. steve calling out jonathan in episode 2 would have been so much better if he already moved from nancy and was actually saying that as a friend who is genuinely concerned for the both of them.
And if it was at an appropriate moment… their friends were literally in danger and steve is like let’s go get Nancy flowers… John was 100% in the right at that moment.
Exactly I wouldn’t say it was bad writing because the conversation definitely should have happened… just bad execution due to the worst possible timing for it.
i would say it's bad writing because it involves the love-triangle that was needlessly introduced last season.
definitely the conversation needed to happen, but the problem is not just the timing but also steve's motivation. it would have been so much better if steve fully moved on from nancy and would actually say that as a friend, not just of her but of johnathan as well.
Yes! This is the love triangle nobody wanted. And it was done already. I feel like Nancy should experience life without a boyfriend for a while anyway - I mean they met when they were teenagers.
I'm really hoping that their arc ends with an amicable breakup and that all 3 stay friends, forever bonded by fighting the Upside Down
The love triangle is the worst part of the show for me.
Moving on from Nancy, and just being a friend was part of Steve's growth in Seasons 2 and 3. The kind of growth you expect from a character entering adulthood, where he found a reason to exist that wasn't just being popular, and "getting the girl".
It's fine for Nancy to acknowledge that growth in Season 4, and it honestly makes Steve's arc come full circle in a way, but they are taking it too far now. It's reductive to have Steve and Jonathan do Midummer Lite all season.
It says a lot that most Stancy people's pining for it solely because of spicy moments in s4 and because they dislike Jonathan, not because they think they both fit
Jonathan should've come back to Hawkins in s4 and made friends with Steve. Seeing them as a trio would be miles more entertaining than as a love triangle
I agree with you, I would have much rather had that plot than them competing for her attention while their entire town is under siege. She seems really over it and I can relate.
Thinking about it that would've been really cool. Maybe we'd have seen him working together with the other 4 older kids in the Upside Down.
The California plot should've had Mike & Will go to the lab with Eleven. It'd make sense for Brenner to want to use Will too and test his connection to the Upside Down and Henry/Vecna/001. Seeing Mike try to deal with being stuck in the bunker while Will & Eleven keep getting pulled away from him could be cool. Mike could be looking for a way out while Eleven & Will are tested by Papa & Brenner. Will doesn't need to get to the level he was at in S5, but they could def find a way for him to be more useful by the last episode by tapping into the hive mind.
The main things we'd be missing out on are Argyle and the conversation between Jonathan and Will, but then Season 5 could have it and focus on their brotherly bond more. We'd also be missing out on Suzie but there could be another way for her to fit into the season.
Polycule-adjacent would have been the way to go. Steve and Jonathan aren't attracted to each other, but like and respect each other and thus get why Nancy would be. They could be cool about it instead of the boring dick measuring routine.
Yeah but you're posting the same thing that literally a thousand other people are saying. Jumping on the train. Not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about everyone posting the same thing over and over.
I hate love triangles, they're so reductive for female characters 😒 Nancy is more than who she dates and it's a disservice to Steve's character to make him regress like this. It's awful for everyone involved.
The love triangle is annoying but a realistic way things would play out given everyone’s history. Nancy is attractive and late teens/early 20s dudes are thirsty. Especially given they have been quarantined for a year and dealing with the stress of an apocalypse. They are not mature enough to be like “we are not right for each other, let’s all be friends.” They already get along decently minus the petty competition between steve and Jonathan.
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The sitting posture is perfectly on brand for all three.
Posture analysis incoming...
Nancy: / \
Jonathan: X
Steve: ඞ
Like I get that it's supposed to be Amongus but all I can see is Simba.
I see a Pac-Man ghost, can't tell whether it is inky, blinky, pinky, or clyde.
You can definitely tell Charlie is British here. 😂
When he’s out of character he even sits with an accent.
Too right you are Ken!
KENNY.
I was going to say the same thing!
[removed]
Nancy manspreading as always
She’s got the biggest hog of the trio
😆😆😆
Because she have balls
Lol love that Natalie’s manspreading on the two guys
Nancy got balls
It would be peak bi thruple
Steve, sitting bisexually
I love the aesthetic of this photo for some reason.
Compared to how the characters dress starting as early as Season 2 (but more pronoucned Season 3 onward), I like how their wardrobes look so much more subdued
It really fit with the show. Season 1 feels so much more grounded than the other seasons
Season 1 and 2 the time period still serves mainly as a backdrop. Sure, you get some references here and there, but the show doesn't go out of it's way to really hammer the viewer over the head with them. I always skip the episode with 8 so I won't comment on that one. S3 you get all the usual 80's references. The clothes. The media. The culture.
The neverending story and new coke scenes get shoved in your face. They're painful and serve no purpose except to remind us they were a thing.
THIS
Very honest question for you: did you live through the 80s? My biggest gripe with S2 is that it is too referential, to the point it feels like I can't go 5 mins without another one, and therefore feels too crutchy to me.
I guess thinking back on it s2 does have a lot more references, but I feel like they're integrated into the story better. Things like the kids dressing up as ghostbusters for Halloween. Which is what kids did back then. Or the arcade. Which of course is something those 4 would be into.
But if you set this story in a more modern era those things would still be relevant to kids. They'd just be a different flavor. Instead of dressing up as ghostbusters they might dress up as stranger things characters. Instead of an arcade, they'd play video games online. Sure those activies are dripping in an 80s skin, but they're still a backdrop for the characters to interact in. They're not front and center being waived in your face. Most of the time. Radio shack gets brought up too much lol.
Yeah, the Ghostbusters stuff I thought was fun! It was well-integrated and made sense.
Some of the things I'm thinking of:
Dart not being able to handle light is a Gremlins thing, which is reinforced heavily by the Gremlins-adjacent music that plays when he escapes the club room.
The pumpkins stuff is a loose reference to Halloween 3.
When Max is the one driving in the pumpkin patch, that's Temple of Doom.
They tell Bob they need to find X, which is a reference to the Goonies, though that one is really sweet and lovely cuz it's Sean Astin.
Paul Reiser also has a fun call back to Aliens.
The Exorcist is allll over that season.
So is E.T. again. Although El as a ghost had me giggling.
The Shining, Thriller, the Thing, Poltergeist, Super 8 and Close Encounters, etc etc etc. All kinds of references.
Anyway, I don't mind some of it. But then it felt like too much at other times, like back to back references that were there instead of more original ideas. I asked you, though, because I just don't know if I am being overly sensitive or not! Like did most people pick up on it all or nah? You know?
Although Bob's hero moment being straight lifted from Jurassic Park, a 90s flick, is a goddamn crime in my opinion. Lol
Agreed. Felt more real and more regular people
The three had that classic "trio" setup perfectly. It would have been so cool to see them working as that. Like Harry, Ron, Hermione.
Looks like Steve just got beat tf up by Jonathan.
Season 2 ended so perfectly, Steve may have had feelings for her but he drove away hopeful for the future and knowing at least he can be a big bro
A love triangle like seriously 🤣
Totally, I am so tired of the love triangle bs.
Its sad because it also means they did less with Nancy and Steve in s4. They tried the love triangle back for the sake of them having something to do, and it only pushed their characters backwards
It would have been interesting for them to have a chat about the past, and like close things in a more peaceful and amicable way. Maybe Steve still holding some feelings and feeling conflicted but acting as a respectful person while she BY HERSELF figures out things. For me what felt horribly wrong was Steve directly telling Nancy a date proposal when she is still in a relationship. Like… they haven’t seen or talked each other for a while, he isn’t even interested in her and how she has changed in this time, and what he does instead of asking that is to start to talk with her about having kids??? Wtf jajaja
That is indeed crazy, especially because Robin further tries to get the two together, and I was at various points feeling like ''Nancy... aren't you gonna tell off this girl who is saying you should break up with your current to go back to your ex?''.
To me, it just makes Steve's character go backwards: he was the jock in season 1-2, and it was learning that those social constructs don't matter much that made him evolve further in season 3, and that season was his ''rock bottom'': he was being ''punished'' for being bad at school, except now he wasn't popular with the girls and constantly made fun of. Steve had to find himself again after season 3, and he did, specially with the help of Robin, who made him realize being himself and finding someone who really means something to you was the most important part of his romantic pursuit. It feels really bad to get to season 4, Steve is back to being popular with women because of that healthy mindset... but its used to make him want to go back to his problematic ex. Its so weird
I’m wondering if it’s not even a love triangle. I wonder if it’s essentially gonna be something along the lines of (awkward dialogue) “I’m not trying to win her back from you, but I am trying to prove to myself that you’re not better than me for taking her”.
And that’s why he’s so competitive with him.
I just rolled my eyes (not at you), which lets me know that this is exactly how their storyline feels at the moment.
Hahaha yeah it’s corny but GOSH a love triangle after all this time just feels so off. I feel like there’s gotta be more to it.
Exactly! It does nothing for either of them. You mean to tell me that for roughly 18 months, these two goobers have been competing for Nancy's attention?
I hope !! Because the love triangle idea is bad. I would prefer this way more. It’s also not like: oh this is so good… but it’s way better imo.
It’s one of a hundred things on this show that I can’t tell if I’m supposed to like it because it’s an homage or if it’s just laziness.
I’d say you look at the execution with that and the execution hasn’t been great. It’s actually weird because we seem to see Steve go through a whole end of relationship process from when they break up in season 2 through to season 4 kickstarting it again. The relationship is struggling and it’s not dumb teenager stuff, they break up, he’s sad, he wants her back, he finds a distraction and forms new relationships/hobbies (Dustin & co), he comes to some peace with it and lets her go, he’s trying to move on (ahoy, ladies), he has a new crush (Robin, lol) and then to start season 4 he’s dating again. Only for him to get regressed to wanting Nancy again and undoing a lot of character work. Nancy who has moved on gets regressed into a centre of a love triangle with Jonathan in California, which is her catching feelings for someone else while in a relationship Again. So now Nancy apparently hasn’t had any lasting development on that front either.
the Steve character arc is exactly true. I hate that they regress his character. He's the older one in the group.. his love interest shoudl come from elswhere. In addition to the other points you mention.
And, Nancy is just too ambitious and future thinking for Jonathan. She's going places. He is not. Which is fine. But, they are NOT couple material.
Yeah, him being older really does make it a bit worse. He’s been outside of the school bubble even if he’s in a small town.
My perhaps miserable ass would be perfectly happy if none of the couples ended up together by the end, but Nancy and Jonathan in particular seem to have gone in very different directions. He was more ambitious before in that they said he wanted to go to NYU and he had that internship at the paper with Nancy, and I think journalist+photographer was supposed to go together, but now they live in different States and he stopped being that guy. She also doesn’t fit with Steve like that so… let Nancy be free.
The thing is… I think that Jonathan’s arc is precisely to come back to his dreams and go with Nance.
The reason why Jonathan is holding back is because he feels responsible for Will… and like, Jonathan is not Will’s father! He is not responsible and Will is in the beginning of his young adulthood and has a lot of other people he can rely on. He is not alone.
That this change of personality in Jonathan happens when Will is a teenager and no longer reaches out to him like he used to is not a coincidence.
Jonathan does not longer feel needed by him, and that is confusing the hell out of Jonathan and this is why in S4 he is a freaking mess. Because he relied of feeling needed by his family to feel okay with himself. (I understand him because I was that kinda person that took refuge in being overly responsible and never have fun… not with my family but with other things).
IMO is not because he wants to stay and he changed. He is confused, that is what was stablished, because he has always being the person that is fully selfless and doesn’t think about himself at all (Joyce actually still reinforces this!!), so now he feels bad when he finally is thinking about himself and what he wants.
I think that he feels uncomfortable when he is pursuing something selfishly due to the trauma of being parentified and everything that has happened.
He starts thinking: what if I leave and mom needs my help with Will?
Now that Will is shown to be empowered and powerful, someone that can fend for himself, Jonathan is going to crash out even moooreee..
At least this is how I see it.. I wonder if this is the direction they are thinking lmao. But for me it’s the thing that makes the most sense.
I can see that perspective for Jonathan but I think you can argue that it’s escapism for him. He was parentified before the show even started and traumatized throughout the show’s run. He’s just been put through hell mentally and found a way to escape having to deal with his feelings via smoking a tonne of pot. He needs therapy to start processing all of it more than he’s being held back by feeling responsible for Will. If anything, Season 4 starts with Joyce having a better paying job and doing better along with Will being older, but Jonathan is checked out. The time when he could be focusing on himself more has him rudderless and we don’t see him taking any steps to help himself. I know it’s the 80s but the way he’s responded to all that trauma sends him away from Nancy’s path.
Maybe he gets back on the Nancy track but it’s much broader than not wanting to focus on himself.
The thing is, that from my pov and interpretation of the character, that things are fine, that Joyce has a job and that everything is stable actually makes Jonathan more emotionally unstable, because all his life he has lived in survive mode, and has never had the chance to look inward at himself. That peace feels foreign even.
I was not talking about “focusing on himself” in the way you are understanding it. Sorry if I didn’t explained well, but the avoidance thing you mention was my point. When you use drugs to avoid your own emotions because you don’t know how to deal with them. He always pushed that to the side because there were very important things to deal with.
Now, that he is able to have more time and be more free, he uses marihuana and avoidance because he never learned how to deal with things beyond emergencies, and now he has all these emotions inside that are not dealt from a lot of time ago, and he doesn’t know how to deal with that.
This is why he doesn’t know what to do with his life. He feels fear of seeing Nancy, fear of going to uni, emotion for seeing Nancy, emotion for going to uni, also maybe wants to be there around for longer because he has never enjoyed being in family or having time for leisure. How do you know what you want when your emotions are incomprehensible?
My take is that when he confronts that he will realize what he wants, and you are right that what Jonathan ends up deciding might be not to go to college… but I would prefer if he returns to his hobbie of photography or to see him returning more to his own self again. Since when he was a kid and before he suffered so much he had big dreams, I would like to see him pursuing them again. It would be poetic and show that we can heal and return to our previous selves even after so much pain. But of course it’s not the only possible satisfying ending for Jonathan, he can also find something else that makes him happier.
We also need to see what character evolution Nancy has, and wether they can meet each other at the end or not. I wouldn’t dislike if none of them end up together actually, as long as they end up in a good place.
While that is a good theory… it falls flat because steve isn’t much more ambitious than john.
Steve wants a traditional family and life. He told her that in S4. This is specifically what Nancy doesn’t want.
I never said he was. I said neither one of them is right for Nancy, for different reasons.
I think they may have written themselves into a corner with Robin being gay, at the time it was not necessary and it probably would have been a more satisfying conclusion for them to have gotten together then at the end of season 3. Maybe a greater writer could have made it all work
I think Robin being gay was good for Steve having a friend closer to his own age and it’s important for Will’s journey in season 5. Plus a show can only have so many romantic relationships before it gets insanely tedious. The issue, imo, is more that they haven’t always been great at using their show time so things get neglected. Hopper in russia dragged for me, the gang of basketball players looking for Eddie really didn’t need that much time to be bland as hell, the love triangle redux has eaten up time in itself, etc. They could have repurposed some of the show’s runtime to handle Steve’s love life better or just left him okay with being single. Other characters could have gotten a bit more time for things like fleshing Lucas out more, making Will less of a plot device or figuring out what to do with Jonathan as his own character.
That's what I meant, they are not good enough writers to tie in so many different threads and the whole of season 3 read to me as if they were supposed to get together and some wise ass went like BUT WHAT IF SHE'S GAY
Maybe, but Robin being gay ties in well with Will and revisiting the love triangle. Season 3 definitely ran a misdirect on Robin not ending up with Steve, but I think it was the better writing choice. The guy needs a friend who isn’t noticeably younger and the show needs a female character who isn’t paired with one of the male leads. Robin not being with Steve and being completely removed from being a love interest is really important for not slotting every female character into that mold.
I think that whole argument about needing a friend his own age is kind of stupid, cause why what does that show us or tell us about the character, we know he can make friends, alright now we know he can make friends his own age it's superfluous, what the guy wasn't able to do was build a healthy relationship, that's why Robin fit in nicely
The execution of the whole Robin is gay thing was horrendous, for it to be a good twist it should have recontextualized things things through out the season, it's not a good twist if it comes out of nowhere and ties back to nothing. She was slotted into that love interest roll she was written like that it's just that for whatever reason at the end they said nope lol, that's why her characterization is all over the place in latter seasons, they do not know what to do with her, she was introduced as this very cool very smart person, that character no longer exists in the show, she's now a classic klutz
And yes it ties into Will's story now 2 seasons and however many years later that's whatever
What if Steve and Robin did end up together because of their trauma bond which later on let Steve and Jonathan be at ease with each other and they become friends (also with Nancy) There you go no terribly executed twist, Steve is shown to be able to make friends with people his age and characters all fulfill their narrative purpose OR you write a good gay character instead of Robin
Because we only ever see him with his shitty high school friends who aren’t really seen after season 1. As much as the show likes to shoehorn romantic relationships everywhere they can, friendship is a core theme of it. Barb dying sets off Nancy’s crusade and Jonathan occupies the loner slot where it’s a point you don’t see him with any friends until season 4. Robin fills that hole for Steve and gives him someone to bounce off who isn’t Dustin who isn’t his peer. It’s not like an already semi bloated show should have been adding a new friend and a gf for him either.
I mean, the execution is that we only see her at work and she was closeted in high school in small town Indiana in the 80s. It makes sense for it not to be broadcasted until she’s semi forced to come out. The characterization issues are writing issues because even if they pivoted from her as a love interest, they should still be able to make the character be consistent and well used in the show. They’ve also struggled with Jonathan pretty badly and he’s a straight love interest from day one. Hopper goes from flawed in season 1 crazy in 2 and 3. Straight Robin wouldn’t fix the “hmmm, not sure what to do with this character. Chaos?” problems throughout the show.
I think it’s a good thing to see things like that connecting over time. It’s not like Will possibly being gay wasn‘t touched on in season 1 and then given real weight in season 3 when Robin is introduced. Her being gay and the “you don’t even like girls” in the same season shows some intentionality.
Jonathan who moves to California at the end of season 3? They missed the window to do that even if Robin were Steve’s love interest. If they tried to wait that out until season 5 then it’s 3 seasons of Steve having Dustin as his soul friend. There’s also the issue that they just aren’t great at writing romantic relationships. Some messiness makes sense given their ages and trauma, but every romantic relationship in the show becomes an issue. Robin as a love interest likely would have been just as much of a shit show as the rest are.
No no no… the platonic friendship between Robin and Steve is like one of the best things this show has ever done. I don’t care if these three are going to end up split, but I need my bestie duo.
Yeah like… for me it seems that it’s implied that he never really got over Nancy. But I feel it could be explored in other way. Like, see him trying to be a good friend and respect the relationship but being conflicted with his feelings.
Other people have suggested since he is alone and his dating has gone wrong, he just feels lonely and clings to the last partner he had. It makes sense.
I would have preferred to see him more going in other direction like, moving on, but they went this other way.
Maybe have Jonathan be jealous, but Steve NOT trying to pursue Nancy and then having him telling Jonathan to get his shit together. I would have preferred something like that. This would have shown growth from Steve’s part. In Jonathan’s case it would be good to see him be silly, because he had to grow too fast and was kinda parentified, so now he is being more irresponsible and doing the emotional maturity labor that he didn’t did before.
I think initially he wasn’t over her but we see him grow to being over her only for that to be undone. On the other hand, Nancy was sure as hell over Steve very quickly. They had to regress both characters to do this.
I think it’s just lazy love triangle writing more than anything that can be dissected about the character, tbh. You can try and say Nancy likes the new Steve and Jonathan is far away; Steve is harder because we’ve seen him progress through getting over Nancy over two seasons. Even him feeling lonely is kind of like… he’s only added relationships since they broke up. It’s obviouly not scratching that romantic itch but it’s not a situation where I think it makes sense to go back to pining for his high school gf.
They could have gone some awkward but funny misunderstanding route where Jonathan thought there was interest but it was some stupid misunderstanding. Or they just met in the middle of who they were and who they are now to be friends when around each other. Steve and Nancy being actual friends would have been a good final step for those two to end their journey more than anything.
An homage to what exactly?
Maybe homage isn’t the right word since it’s nothing specific but ST makes a lot of choices that are “in the spirit” of 80s movies and I think that includes some corny writing tropes.
Its not even a triangle tho
Yeah like… it seems she is with Jonathan nontheless but he is insecure that she will return to Steve I think. Like, it’s not a love triangle in the conventional sense but I think they could have done something more interesting between these three. Still… maybe there is something more beyond the surface of what we have seen.
I need a spin-off where this happens. Like, Nancy and Jonathan traveling around while Steve tags along with them to look for the love of his live or something cheesy like that
If it was a supernatural type show, every time they find him a girl, she ends up being a monster 🤣
Xander Harris syndrome
Add Robin and you’d have a full human set of mystery INC. Complete with the socially awkward stoner, privileged woman who becomes more of a competent fighter/femme fatal as the franchise continues, nerdy red head, non conventional jock, and constant rumors that they’re all in a polyamorous relationship.
Damn, now I really need them to dress as the Scooby gang for a Halloween
I just saw fan art the other day of Scoops Troop/the older kids reimagined as Scooby-Doo characters (Steve as Fred, Nancy as Daphne, Robin as Velma, and Jonathan as Shaggy) lol
That fits together insanely well
EDDIT: Eddie could've been Scooby :(
Don’t worry. They’ve still got Argyle.
Robin's also gonna tag along
Season’s not over yet, they will 100% all get a long at some point
When one of the boys is dying after sacrificing himself to save the other and Nancy
Everyone on New Year's celebrating and I'm crying in my room because I just watched Steve get demolished by Vecna.
I really don’t see him dying imo. It would kill Dustin, dude would be in a deep depression
Yeah after seeing Dustin mope around for most of volume 1 but seeming to be getting his mojo back I don’t think anyone wants to see him take another blow like that.
But tbh that’s the only thing giving me confidence Steve won’t die because outside of that it does almost seem like they’re setting him up to make a sacrifice.
I agree, but tbh they have done this with Steve every season, even Season 4 we all thought he died at one point, if they wanted to pull the trigger on him dying they would’ve already I think
That’s true. I was so sure Steve would die last season that I honestly think it was the original plan then they got cold feet about killing off such a popular character and brought Eddie in just to be the stand in to deliver that emotional moment.
And they also didn’t seem to have a great way to fit Steve into this season so far. If they only kept him around for him to kill time with the love triangle nonsense until they kill him anyway this season they might as well have just done it last season. If they’re keeping him around it better be to give him an ending he deserves.
Completely agree. Joe Keery has stated fans will be very happy with his characters ending, and that he himself has said he’s very happy with it. The next episode “Shock Jock” is apparently Joe’s favorite of the whole season for Steve; which semi makes me worried lol
Am I the only one that thinks that only 11 from the main bunch will die?
Unfortunately, its A LOT to cover in 4 episodes. We will probably get something, but its unlikely that it wont be half-baked
It's like 8 more hours of the show though, these aren't exactly half hour episodes haha
Isn't the final episode supposed to be 2 and a half hours or something? It is a lot to cover, but on paper having 5 plus hours is a decent chunk to work with. Easier said than done.
Oh, i don't doubt its possible, i doubt its possible on the Duffer Brothers hands. They had 13 hours for season 4 and they barely did anything with the 3 of them
Well tbf one of them spent most of the season halfway across the country. That’s not going to be an obstacle this time. Everything can easily get patched up and worked out in volume 2. Then they have a full feature length movies worth of time to have them work together. Think about how much can happen over the course of a movie. Especially a movie they go into it with the ground work already set.
That said though I’d rather see Steve and Dustin patch things back up and team up again. The gift and curse of stranger things is that there’s so many characters they can only prioritize certain tan ups and interactions. I just want them to put this love triangle thing behind them. And one big moment with the three main older teens to establishing their friendship is all I need. Having the 3 of them spending a lot of time together isn’t a priority for me in the end game. Idk why we’re all the sudden treating this as something that needs to be a priority.
Yes, that's kinda my point: that was just a bad decision. Most people seem to think the California crew was the worst part of the season by far, as no one did anything and they barely developed
Again, I don't doubt they will try to do it, what I doubt is that they will be able to make it good - they haven't been able to do shit with Jonathan for 3 seasons now. Its not about it being a priority, its about making 3 of the main characters have anything interesting going on for them besides a weak love triangle. Nancy already has that with the Holly plot, Jonathan and Steve do not
Yeah totally agree with you on the Cali plot. I thought the whole thing was pointless.
I did think Steve’s story in the last season was great aside from the love triangle thing. I thought the dynamic with him and Eddie was good too. Unlike they’ve done with him and Jonathan they actually did do a good job of developing the arc of their relationship. And I thought Nancy’s could have been if they made her and Steve’s thing very clear that they only rekindled a friendship and respect and nothing more. This season yeah, they’ve all been stuck in the mud so far. Hopefully they have a better plan for them in the next batch of episodes.
i hate the fucking triangle bullshit. steve calling out jonathan in episode 2 would have been so much better if he already moved from nancy and was actually saying that as a friend who is genuinely concerned for the both of them.
And if it was at an appropriate moment… their friends were literally in danger and steve is like let’s go get Nancy flowers… John was 100% in the right at that moment.
yeah, steve was not wrong in what he accused johnathan of, but his reasoning and timing was shit.
Exactly I wouldn’t say it was bad writing because the conversation definitely should have happened… just bad execution due to the worst possible timing for it.
i would say it's bad writing because it involves the love-triangle that was needlessly introduced last season.
definitely the conversation needed to happen, but the problem is not just the timing but also steve's motivation. it would have been so much better if steve fully moved on from nancy and would actually say that as a friend, not just of her but of johnathan as well.
Let’s be honest if it wasn’t for Nancy they’d probably be good friends by now.
Yeah the only a friend stuff was cap.
I have a feeling even in the love triangle bs they will have that but with dustin too
Love Nancy. Don't care for the love triangle at all.
I believe we have both.
came here to say this!
Definitely. This sub is just full of people whining
Yes! This is the love triangle nobody wanted. And it was done already. I feel like Nancy should experience life without a boyfriend for a while anyway - I mean they met when they were teenagers.
I'm really hoping that their arc ends with an amicable breakup and that all 3 stay friends, forever bonded by fighting the Upside Down
This would be my ideal ending too!
Yes, this triangle needs to go. It's like they've all regressed. It's such a boring plot line. I hope it gets quickly resolved in the next episode!
Ironically this one photo looks more 80's than the entire show
That picture actually looks like it’s from the 80s.
The love triangle is the worst part of the show for me.
Moving on from Nancy, and just being a friend was part of Steve's growth in Seasons 2 and 3. The kind of growth you expect from a character entering adulthood, where he found a reason to exist that wasn't just being popular, and "getting the girl".
It's fine for Nancy to acknowledge that growth in Season 4, and it honestly makes Steve's arc come full circle in a way, but they are taking it too far now. It's reductive to have Steve and Jonathan do Midummer Lite all season.
It says a lot that most Stancy people's pining for it solely because of spicy moments in s4 and because they dislike Jonathan, not because they think they both fit
Jonathan should've come back to Hawkins in s4 and made friends with Steve. Seeing them as a trio would be miles more entertaining than as a love triangle
I agree with you, I would have much rather had that plot than them competing for her attention while their entire town is under siege. She seems really over it and I can relate.
Thinking about it that would've been really cool. Maybe we'd have seen him working together with the other 4 older kids in the Upside Down.
The California plot should've had Mike & Will go to the lab with Eleven. It'd make sense for Brenner to want to use Will too and test his connection to the Upside Down and Henry/Vecna/001. Seeing Mike try to deal with being stuck in the bunker while Will & Eleven keep getting pulled away from him could be cool. Mike could be looking for a way out while Eleven & Will are tested by Papa & Brenner. Will doesn't need to get to the level he was at in S5, but they could def find a way for him to be more useful by the last episode by tapping into the hive mind.
The main things we'd be missing out on are Argyle and the conversation between Jonathan and Will, but then Season 5 could have it and focus on their brotherly bond more. We'd also be missing out on Suzie but there could be another way for her to fit into the season.
Wish they would go with a throuple and pay homage to Killer Klowns From Outer Space
Polycule-adjacent would have been the way to go. Steve and Jonathan aren't attracted to each other, but like and respect each other and thus get why Nancy would be. They could be cool about it instead of the boring dick measuring routine.
Love triangle or not they are still an epic monster hunting trio
You guys love acting like continuing to constantly hang around what you thought was the love of your life is an easy thing to do.
Is he hiding a beer?
It’s 3 young horny adults what did you think was going to happen.
Threesome, then maybe polyamory.
That’s just believing that love isn't finite and can be shared. Is it wrong to feel jealous?
Thruple.
We're two scenes from 2 boys a cup here for all I care.
facts
Facts!
I think they should all kiss. Including the demogorgon
i really loved the brief moments they were friends, i miss that. i don't know why they brought steve back into a love triangle
Throple lmao
On screen or off screen Natalia is the boss
What's amazing to me is how strongly some people feel about this stuff.
I'm somebody who likes ships. I enjoy them. I also understand if other people don't share my ships.
I don't post every other day about it.
Cool! I don't post every other day about it, either.
Yeah but you're posting the same thing that literally a thousand other people are saying. Jumping on the train. Not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about everyone posting the same thing over and over.
Ah, haven't seen that, but we/they are all correct. It's a bad creative decision and a waste of potential.
True.
She looks so much like my best friend’s wife in that picture
The cliche is part of their homage im sure 😂
It's funny to think that Charlie accidentally punched Joe not just once, but twice lol when shooting their season 1 fight scene.
They admitted the second time, Joe did get upset over it and rightfully so. Charlie put it well, "it's a natural instinctual reaction to getting hit."
Exactly. I know the clutch moments would been legendary.
I rolled my eyes so hard from S5 EP1 of them fighting for her acknowledgement on the tower thing, like "here we go again".
Who’s to say we won’t get this after season 5? Fingers crossed 🤞🏻
yesh. the writers went for too many tropes in seasons 4 and 5 and the show suffered because of it
There is still time.
Yea but the love triangle this is honestly more realistic and makes more sense.
FR!
We could've had them Babysitter's Guide to Monster Hunting...
it's not too late
I actually hate Steve & Jonathan this season 😭
I hate love triangles, they're so reductive for female characters 😒 Nancy is more than who she dates and it's a disservice to Steve's character to make him regress like this. It's awful for everyone involved.
we have both
The love triangle is annoying but a realistic way things would play out given everyone’s history. Nancy is attractive and late teens/early 20s dudes are thirsty. Especially given they have been quarantined for a year and dealing with the stress of an apocalypse. They are not mature enough to be like “we are not right for each other, let’s all be friends.” They already get along decently minus the petty competition between steve and Jonathan.
Why not epic monster hunting trio by day, threesomes by night
epic monster hunting trio >>> cliche love triangle
We have both. But people just like to complain about every little thing.
Have you ever spent time with teenagers? Its wildly realistic that these three would be in a love triangle.
All three of them should just kiss.
Yes pls I don’t mind love triangles but this one just feels so forced
agreed
it would’ve been way cooler than what actually played out…
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY
You know what’s more annoying than the love triangle? A thousand idiots echoing how annoyed they are by it on every other post. Shut up. Get over it.
[removed]
To be fair what's his face is over her.
Better yet, should have had robin into nancy as well. Love tetrahedron
trvth
Absolutely
plot twist.. the elevator scene gets cannon...
Real
it coulve been both!!!
There’s still time 🤞🏽🤞🏽
I hope they just let them be a thropple and be done with ir
Facts.