Does the scale really work out this way? I know the N1 isn't massive, but I feel like the Hawk is still too small. Been a while since I played KotOR... I should probably remedy that.
As much as I'd love the ship design to be reintroduced (god dammit, I want an official Lego set to go alongside the one I built from custom instructions), I don't love this idea.
Usually you need a ship of the size of a corvette to fit a hangar for a starfighter, smaller ships only have docking stations.
A light freighter with a larger cargo hold probably could be modified to fit a small ship. But not a fright pusher like the Falcon or the Hawk. The Ghost had its own small shuttle, but you probably can't dock every ship in that hold.
Have it launch like an Arwing? Pretty much catapulted out into space, idk how the physics work on that but it's an idea. Either that or trapdoor but again my guy would need to be very good at flying to put it back into the ship.
The cleanest way would have it be set up like the Ghost where the smaller ship docks on the exterior of the main ship.
That's my thought, design a new ship that allows the N1 to dock into where the cockpit is easy to jump into and then he can drop down from the main ship to launch.
Or have Ezra find another Razor Crest type ship and they trade. Ezra gets the N1, Mando gets his Razor Crest.
That's my thought, design a new ship that allows the N1 to dock into where the cockpit is easy to jump into and then he can drop down from the main ship to launch.
Theres no version of this where the mama ship isn't a better ship than the N1
An alternative idea that I read on another post was that the Ebon Hawk blueprints survived and were discovered allowing for the ship to be built present day. This would also allow for any upsizing/customization needed to make the N-1/hanger fit better.
There's no reason why it can't be the actual Ebon Hawk. Apparently Star Wars technology is pretty robust if Huyang has managed to survive for 20 thousand years with over 70% original parts.
Huyang likely had regular maintenance though. Last we know of the Ebon Hawk, it was already pretty battered after the events of KOTOR 2 and left in the jungles of Dromund Kaas somewhere
I mean, cool idea, but like this is the equivalent of you finding Jesus’ wooden cart and using it as your daily driver. Is it not? Hasn’t it been like a 1000 years?
Holy shit, how has technology progressed so little in all that time? Basters are still blasters, swoop bikes are basically pod racers, and the tusken raiders are culturally indistinguishable from ANH.
in my head, its because the Rakata stuff was so advanced and well designed that it didnt need much improvement. its also like when some tech is so advanced its hard for normal people to be able to maintain it, let alone improve upon it, sort of like how its hard to know what exactly is going on in a LLM neural net. what has always tripped me out is basically every mechanic on any random backwater planet has the ability to fix almost any ship random spare parts laying around, so I guess its best not to think too hard about it I suppose.
Kinda. I think of it as the inheritor species just didn't have the technological advancement to iterate on Rakatan tech. Like how most people know how to drive a car, know when it isn't working, but can't design or repair an engine. The tech is so far beyond the capabilities of the inheritor species
The widespread adoption of FTL travel is prehistory in Star Wars. The idea is they have roughly technologically platued a long time ago, with only tiny incremental advancement ever since. Usually in tiny percentages of improves efficiency, or design utilizing known technology in novel ways. Real innovation happens, but it's rare.
It's because in order to sell a "Star Wars" title as such, it has to include 'iconic' pieces of Star Wars technology - or it becomes another sci-fi IP. They tried with different ship designs (pirate galleon-types), lightsabers with backpack batteries, etc., and they never took off.
Fans associate "Star Wars" with certain things and if the story (book, comic, game) doesn't have it, is it really Star Wars?
Yeah, though one of the general ideas in Star Wars is that technology doesn’t really ever advance in a meaningful way.
I think in-universe the explanation is that the original colonizer species, the Rakata, were so crazy advanced that they left all this tech but nobody can actually improve it significantly.
While there is precedent for ships of this era to be found in junk yards and restored such as the hammerhead, I agree it would be unlikely.
I saw another comment suggesting that perhaps the blueprints survived and the ship could then be rebuilt and upsized/customized. Thought that was a cool idea too.
For some of it they don't even really understand how it works like hypderdrives, they know what tooling is needed to make them, but the principles of physics that underpin the tech is more or less lost. The modern equivalent would almost be like me knowing how to put together a gaming PC but having no idea how to manufacture a processor chip. When some starship manufacturer comes out with a "new" more efficient hyperdrive its like me slapping a bigger fan on my PC heat sink and eking out a extra 0.5% performance.
Technology can't advance exponentially forever. There has to be a peak.
We can only make circuits so small. We can only make batteries so powerful. We can only work within the laws of physics(be it real or fictional, but there's still laws).
The Star Wars Galaxy basically reached that peak 10,000 years ago. There's different designs, different UIs, etc. It can be different, but can't really get better.
This is arguably more of a legends thing though. The difference between the High Republic, Prequels, OT and sequel era is pretty significant technologically.
SWTOR muddies this in legends though by having basically prequel era technology only a few hundred years after KOTOR while KOTOR technology was pretty primitive in comparison. I think a lot of people consider SWTOR it's own continuity for this and other reasons.
It’s all superficial. Hyperdrives are hyperdrives, blasters are blasters, things hover. The technology that does advance is always more of a plot point or macguffin, like bacta or death stars or just crazier, bigger ships. Generally, of course
It's been a long time. But generally Star wars tech hasn't changed too much (except when the plot demands to say something is now outdated). It's like a gap between iPhone 10 and then whatever iPhone we are in. But unlike iPhones the internals of the ship can be retrofitted to modern standards.
I've seen a few layouts that turns room 11 into a little bathroom which I think makes the most sense. That or maybe that's what I did in my head any time I think about trying to play the TTRPG and find a Dynamic-Class.
That's what grogu's dome on the N1 is for when he's not around. A throne with a view. My headcannon is that nobody's told him he's literally sitting on a toilet every time he rides with mando.
Pretty sure the Hawk is way too small to store a fighter. Also it would be like, 4000 years old- if it existed at all, that thing would have been ship of Theseus'd a hundred times over
Aw the old Ebon Hawk, beautiful. That was a great nod to future/past light freighter hero ships.
You know, I'm still not into what they did bringing in the N-1 fighter. Listen, it's a beautiful fighter, but it's not a bounty hunter ship. Its in the wrong show.
"well the Mando isn't hunting bounties anymore..."
Which is entirely symbolic of everything wrong with the writing post Season 2.
They blew up his home in Season 2, and since then he's been homeless and feels almost listless. Then they tried to fully domesticate the character by the end of Season 3.
"Hey look there's ol' Uncle Djinn sitting on his... porch" Like what are we even doing?
They changed the show so much that now it feels like the entire draw of the show has been lost. They went from The Good the Bad the Ugly (in space) ... to Petticoat Junction.
Now the original ship is back? So i don't even know what that's about. Talk about going back and forth in direction.
Typical post-Lucas Star Wars. Rey is maybe somebody? No, she's nobody. Actually, she's a Palpatine. Lets give Grogu to Luke. Makes sense, right? He's one of the only Jedi left. Oh wait, all his students get murdered by a bad(ly written) villain! Does that mean Grogu gets murdered? Oh shit, we need a rewrite! Oh shit, they already aired the episode? What else is on air right now? Boba Fett? Okay, look, we're taking 33% of your episodes to fix our major storyline fuckup.
If ever there was more direct confirmation that they were totally lost over there, ending a season of a show with your main action hero sitting on a porch waiting for something to happen like a retiree on Miami Beach, is it.
Bullshit, that was a nice little ending since it's very much the end of the Mando series itself (well, for now, at least). The movie is more of a "one more adventure" type of thing. Mando and Grogu deserve to have a place to settle down and call home. Not everybody needs to have some tragic or bittersweet ending.
Grogu will live for at least 800 Years... Djinn will be dead before he's even a teenager by the standards of Yoda's species. Best case scenario, Djinn dies and Grogu will have to go on by himself... as a kid. This false ending is nothing but that... false. We know the story doesn't end here, so pretending as if it does is just of waste of time for the audience.
But even ignoring that little nugget. The ending was entirely too sweet and perfect, sacchrine is the word for it.
This amazing old west/space bounty hunter show comes to an end with the hero with his feet up on a porch? Narratively that is beyond boring to me. It felt like the writers having no clue what to do with him and just trying to slip him into a place to keep the character paused. IT felt completely out of place.
But again, this is a matter of opinion. You can feel however you want, but after the mad dash to the finish, this final scene to me just smacked of a writers room who was entirely out of ideas, spent, tired, worn out. So what to do? They parked him in a cabin and said "that'll do" until they can figure out what's next.
Gone is the dynamic or moving ending of the previous two seasons, where it felt like the show could go anywhere. Now it feels like the next episode were going to watching him fish or go golfing... or having Fondue night! That might have been slightly better then what we got to be fair.
This show began as this blast of fresh entertaining exciting air.... and ended with a sad old boring fart.
So you want a show with no plot? Just a "bounty of the week" to hunt down and eke out a living? Sounds boring to me.
Grogu was Din's last bounty. The inspiration for the series was Lone Wolf and Cub, where Ogami Ittō was the shogun's executioner before everything went to shit. Then he's on the run with his infant son, Daigorō, on a quest for revenge after the brutal murder of his family and framing of other crimes against the shogun.
Hopefully, you can see the similarities and where they end.
Din received a different quest, and Grogu is given a similar test as Daigorō. They even got their "revenge" with the defeat of Moff Gideon at Mandalore. Bonus Points: Din didn't die like Ittō, and Grogu didn't need to avenge daddy.
Din becoming Landed Gentry on Navarro, after everything he's done for them, isn't the worst thing in the Galaxy.
No, I just wanted a story that felt like it actually was going somewhere and didn't feel like a mad dash to the finish that abandoned any semblance of an interesting plot.
The search for redemption should be a long and winding road. IT is not a simple path, or a boring one. When you screw up something you earnestly believe, it isn't solved by a simple bath in water.
The problem was they made out that going back to Mandalore and bathing in some water was the end goal. Guess what, he does that by episode 3. Then Djinn meanders into irrelevance, and other characters take over the narrative. Djinn, like Grogu, is just along for the ride. Nothing He does after this point is something we even need Djinn for. As much as I love Bo Katan, her story then basically becomes the story. Dijnn is just... there backing her up. That's fine if this wasn't The Mandalorian. She should have her own tale, her own journey, told on her terms. She deserves that, but she doesn't get it.
The show becomes a story that is bigger then Djinn, and lacks relevance for his journey. There is no further conflict between his two halves, instead it's all transferred to other characters, who solve their issues with a couple of arguments in a few episodes. A half a century rift of religion is solved over a fireside chat, and one leader of one side suddenly deciding 'were all good now'.
Sorry, but that just is ... underwhelming.
The redemptive story for Djinn ends completely and leaves us bereft. Characters who go on a quest like this usually must face many challenges, past, present, and future. They must battle their own shadows, their own mirrors, their own failures. Each challenge brings them closer to that touch of the divine, to that final destination.
None of this occurs in Season 3. Instead we get a scramble to shove in the
-recovery of Mandalore,
-the looming threat of imperial spies and loyalists, (we spend a whole episode on this and it goes almost no where except to make it clear that Thrawn is coming! I've got goosebumps! Except it's just an old guy who knows him and thinks He's coming back... so... yay?)
-Grogu's laughable 'training' where He literally cheats with jedi powers to win. So i guess he didn't have to choose then? That's great You can be a Mando and a jedi and never have to compromise, isn't life grand. Remember kids, you can be anything you wanna be, you never have to actually face hard choices in life, you can have it all!
-the healing of a violent religious schism, the anti-climactic handing over of the darksaber completely undermining any narrative significance it had (only for it to literally be an afterthought in the 'final' conflict)
-then we discover not only is Mandalore not dead, it's also still got people living on the surface... using skiffs to ride around like wooden sailing ships... What are these people eating? How are they surviving the radiation without looking like mutants? Why haven't they been killed of by the imperials using the planet as a base? Oh and they just happened to have been loyalists to Bo Katan's family, who have happened to survive all this time, and look at that they want to follow her again without so much as a howdy do? Bless my stars.
Lets rush to the final episode. Lets also just completely ignore jack black and Lizzo and Christopher Lloyd in a story so convoluted and confusing and weird that no one has yet to really understand what the point of it was... (you got Doc Brown, and he's playing a disgruntled droid maintenance officer no. 2? What?) i have zero problems with cool cameos in Star Wars, I care that they are wasted and have zero relevance and could literally be props and card board cut outs. Like at least give them something to do that matters or feels interesting. This was not that.
We then get...
-a long teased battle between the Mando Fleet and The Imperial fleet that we never actually see.
-Grogu fighting the emperor's crimson guard
-Djinn fighting the guard
(side bar, that is three times these guys have been punked entirely, Yoda, Rey & Kylo, and now Grogu (not a jedi barely a padawan learner) and a Mando. I'm beginning to think they are all hat and no cattle. Like can we get one show or movie that makes it clear that these guys in red aren't just chumps? And no, them killing one Mandalorian does not prove they are great fighters, a battle where they team up on one already tired guy, really doesn't give them any credit.)
-then a three way with the big bad who reveals he's trying to literally jam together every great warrior in the entire history of star wars, Clones, Mandos, Force USers etc. Talk about generic villainy. That plot was old when it was in the fantastic four in the 70's. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllYourPowersCombined
-Grogu once again saving Djinn and Bo-Katan
-the formal adoption of Grogu,
-the reclaiming of the forge
I'm sorry but the show went off the freaking rails in my opinion. IT just reeks of too many writers, too many cooks, and rushing to the finish. Along the way they literally made the show into a hodge-podge buffet of different ideas that feels like a Star Wars left over mash, nothing solid, all ideas and feelings, with very little substance. Gone is the simple cohesive story, slowly building towards something, instead its a mad dash to stuff as much as humanly possible into a short season of TV.
Oh and if you are still reading, please don't be one of those folks who equates 'length' with 'anger'. I'm disappointed by the direction they took the show, but it is just a tv show. I think we all get a little to quick to make it seem like anyone who is critical of something must then 'hate' that thing.
Well I do, and I'm not angry. Sorry, that's just my thing.
I write alot... period. Being passionate about something does not equal anger, and just because I'm ok with writing 500 or 1000 words posts to express myself doesn't make me angry.
I still have no idea why people judge others like this. IT's so insulting and derivative towards others for having a lot to say.
"Oh you have a lot to say? Must be frothing angry person"
So I guess every long essay about a subject must come from an angry person. Also since when is a few paragraphs alot? When did that start?
Also, not your nephew. No need for pejoratives.
That's another thing, why do people who disagree with my point of view always get so personal? Its like a repeat thing. i post something I don't care for, an opinion that isn't some glowing love fest, and the response is always "You are angry/you are a terrible person/you must suck in real life/you are a child -insert- insult." and those are the nice retorts. Some get nasty, and I end up blocking them. I avoid like the plague saying anything about others, and always i seem to attract the same responders, people wanting to tell someone else off.
Like is that all people can do now? Someone has a contrasting view, regardless of how valid or invalid it might be, and the first response is to insult them, put them down, and call them names insinuate they are a child. Having been on message boards since the 90's it's always been there, but it's gotten way worse now.
One person even intimated that writing a lot is my way of attacking others and making them read. Like how do you even respond to that?
Okay, you passionately disliked an entire season of a television series. We're talking about eight episodes, 388 minutes, nearly six and a half hours that you cannot seem to get over.
And, honestly, I think you misread the entire thing. You thought the series was something it wasn't. You wanted it to be something it was never going to be. The letdown you suffered from expectations you put upon yourself is self-inflicted.
And rather than take a step back and reevaluate, you're just stewing in your misery. You let fucking guest stars distract you from the story in an entire episode. Who the hell cares if Jack Black, Lizzo, or Christopher Lloyd was in Star Wars? I think a much healthier reaction would just be, "Oh, my God, Jack Black, Lizzo, and Christopher Lloyd are in Star Wars!"
You are taking this personally. Have been for years, now. Has that thought honestly never occurred to you?
So because I don't like something or it disappointed me I'm miserable? Really?
Criticism is not hatred. And being unhappy about how a show turned out is not the sum total of my life. Like where are you getting this?
Because I have a lot to say I'm taking it personal? How do you know this?
Oh and the guest stars weren't why that episode was terrible, it was a terrible plot with a ton of really poorly written scenes that honestly didn't go anywhere. The Guest stars were the least offensive thing about it. You would know that if you actually read what i wrote and didn't jump to conclusions.
"And rather than take a step back and reevaluate, you're just stewing in your misery. "
So because I won't change my opinion I must not be reevaluating? I lack self reflection and I must be miserable because I still talk about it? Again, a lot of negative assumptions and personal attacks on me because I have different opinion then you.
I feel like this is a lot of projection on someone you don't know.
Why are you acting like you know me? i feel like a lot of the folks who respond to me are using me as the punching bag for a lot of of their negative feelings. IT's honestly really gross. And since when do you get to determine what is healthy? Seriously, who made you the arbiter of positivity? Like what a great position, just out here judging everyone and thier mental health because they like writing and discuss in detail what they liked and didn't like about the tv they watch? Like seriously?
Also I've known misery, I've seen and felt it first hand, I can tell you that not liking a season of a tv show and talking about it is not 'misery'.
But hey, just keep going, I'm certain at some point you'll make some more great cutting and derogatory remarks that will make me like the show. That's a really great way to convince me.
Any assumptions I've made are based on these interactions. This is what you've given me so far, and I have little reason to think otherwise about you.
I'm not here to convince you of anything. Whether you like something or not is no skin off my back. I think what you call passion is unhealthy for you.
Never said I hate Star Wars. That's you making wild assumptions again. I love it, it's been a huge part of my life, and even when I'm not happy with something, I would never hate it.
That's a ridiculous thing to suggest.
I think what you call passion is unhealthy for you.
But you have zero clue if this is the case, you don't know me, and its really messed up to think you know whats healthy for other people. I would never do that about your opinions. Like how would you feel if i judged your words and decided I know what's best for you?
You've made alot wild assumptions about me, and a lot of them aren't who I am, or even a shade of who I am.
I write a lot, its what I do. You Judging me because I didn't like something and take some time to list out my issues... what's up with that?
I find it sad that people can't express some banal opinions about a freakin' TV show without others making assumptions that there is something wrong with them. As if the only possible reaction to watching something is always relentless positivity. That expressing how you feel openly even when those feelings might not be positive is seen as a sickness or something to be ashamed of.
Let people feel how they feel, and if you want argue with my comments that's all good, but don't make it personal.
I'm not out here attacking you, so I just don't get why you feel the need to go there.
There are a lot of problems with this idea, the first of which is scale. The OEM N1 is 11 meters long, while the Dynamic Class Freighter is 27.24 meters long. That means the gap in which to install a working shuttle bay needs to be at a minimum of 13 meters to allow for moving around the front and back of the docked ship as well as a comfortable margin of error when landing.
In addition, the width and height of the N1 (never explicitly stated, but largely agreed to be 4.9 and 2.7 meters respectively) means that the Dynamic hangar bay would need to be larger than an entire deck tall to accommodate the N1.
I'm sure someone with some computer modelling expertise can prove me wrong if my assumption is incorrect, but until I see it, I'm not going to believe this would be possible.
I get the impression it may have been scaled by eye to the interior map / model of the ship used in KotOR, which is around twice the size of the actual ship from outside (this is a common video game concession to make an area playable).
Love the nod but scale doesn't work and the Ebon Hawk is something like 4000-4300 years old (it was at least a century old if not multiple when we used it in the first KotOR) by the time of 11 ABY. Also in the image showing the nose of the ship, you have it upside down. The landing gear is on top lol
Don't think a Dynamic Class can fit a hangar for a N1, it could barely fit a swoop. I say barely because it almost takes up half the cargo space.
But it would be a very cool idea regardless.
Something I also see work out as mando's companion, since he got over his droid-phobia with IG-11 would be having a HK-47/51 unit.
We already have the HK that Morgan owns, but the older models are way more iconic and would fit Mando as a bounty hunter better. Even if he would work for the New Republic. It's still a fun idea he would need to keep tabs on his murder droid.
Wait. The Ebon Hawk would be well over 4,000 years old. Is there anything in the Star Wars universe showing ships that still exist from the old republic in the more recent timeline? That just a very long time for a ship to last….
Neat idea, but the Ebon Hawk would be 4000 years old. Even with fantasy/sci-fi fudging, a space ship functioning 4000 years later is a bit of a stretch.
Now, finding a ship in the same style, sure. That’d be cool. But the Ebon Hawk itself doesn’t work.
I'd prefer something new, I love the Ebon Hawk but the last thing I want is more reheating of other characters left overs. They've proven they can make more iconic ship silhouettes, The Falcon, the Ebon Hawk, the XS Freighter all have great profiles IMO and I don't want Mando to abandon his N1. I think they should pay some human artists to sketch some new ships and make one that can fit or mount the N1.
Brings back fond memories of the Star Wars SAGA game I played in college with some friends. We got a Ghtroc 720 light freighter as our party ship (sold some Krayt dragon pearls to pay for it, so we dubbed it the Krayt's Pearl), and my Jedi character "commandeered" an Eta-2 from the Empire one session. Eta-2s are small enough that we figured out it was just the right size to turn one of the cargo bays into a small hanger for it, and it could just perfectly fit onto the cargo elevator and be able to take off.
Great, now I need to find someone to play a game of Star Wars Unlimited with me because this post is making me want to play my deck where I can have Din pilot the Ebon Hawk.
Holy crap, I can see that...at least, much as I like the idea of that space being a hangar, I think it would only fit in an A-Wing. Two if one wasn't afraid of squeezing in.
2026 and people still don't even know what Kathleen Kennedy's job actually is so they just make fanfiction about her somehow being responsible for every single thing they don't personally like
Does the scale really work out this way? I know the N1 isn't massive, but I feel like the Hawk is still too small. Been a while since I played KotOR... I should probably remedy that.
As much as I'd love the ship design to be reintroduced (god dammit, I want an official Lego set to go alongside the one I built from custom instructions), I don't love this idea.
Also the top picture is upside down.
Yeah no way, the N1 is half the width of the Ebon Hawk.
Who cares about scale, I say we park the N1 inside the Ebon Hawk, and then park that inside the Millennium Falcon.
Savage. Gimme a thousand.
Like a space turducken? A Falawk1.
I'll see my self out.
The millennium falsehood is calling
Just grease up the walls of the Ebon Hawk and get a big shoe horn. It'll fit.
So the N-1 is 11m long. Using this I get a width of 5.8m and a height of 1.7m
The Ebon Hawk is 24m long. Using this I get a width of 21.3m and a height of 4.5m.
Using the image from OP, the hangar would be 8.8mx4.4mx1.7m.
I think Mando's N-1 is a bit shorter than a typical N-1, but not that much shorter. And it would still be too wide/tall.
Usually you need a ship of the size of a corvette to fit a hangar for a starfighter, smaller ships only have docking stations.
A light freighter with a larger cargo hold probably could be modified to fit a small ship. But not a fright pusher like the Falcon or the Hawk. The Ghost had its own small shuttle, but you probably can't dock every ship in that hold.
Technically you’re probably right, but when it comes to starwars, scale and physics take a backseat to cool-factor
Have it launch like an Arwing? Pretty much catapulted out into space, idk how the physics work on that but it's an idea. Either that or trapdoor but again my guy would need to be very good at flying to put it back into the ship.
The cleanest way would have it be set up like the Ghost where the smaller ship docks on the exterior of the main ship.
That's my thought, design a new ship that allows the N1 to dock into where the cockpit is easy to jump into and then he can drop down from the main ship to launch.
Or have Ezra find another Razor Crest type ship and they trade. Ezra gets the N1, Mando gets his Razor Crest.
N1 is more of a Jedi ship tbh.
Theres no version of this where the mama ship isn't a better ship than the N1
That's fine with me. I think the N1 is cool, but it's not the best ship, nor does it need to be. I'd take the Ghost or the Falcon over the N1 any day.
Maybe add an extra hatch on the bottom for the pilot, like how the astromech gets in to place, so the N1 could dock on the top.
An alternative idea that I read on another post was that the Ebon Hawk blueprints survived and were discovered allowing for the ship to be built present day. This would also allow for any upsizing/customization needed to make the N-1/hanger fit better.
There's no reason why it can't be the actual Ebon Hawk. Apparently Star Wars technology is pretty robust if Huyang has managed to survive for 20 thousand years with over 70% original parts.
Huyang likely had regular maintenance though. Last we know of the Ebon Hawk, it was already pretty battered after the events of KOTOR 2 and left in the jungles of Dromund Kaas somewhere
I guess it depends if you use the exterior or interior dimensions, the Ebon Hawk is much bigger on the inside in the games
it physically fits, but couldn't fly out of it tho, not tall enough for that
Time is warped and space is bendable tbh. I wouldn't sweat it about the scale being accurate in a star wars product.
Also the ebon hawk would be ancient at that point in time and probably a pile of shit.
Imagined it was basically like the Falcon...a lot of personal space for a ship? But not for a fightr ship
the Hawk felt incredibly cramped and i figured that was by design
What is up in space anyway?
I mean, cool idea, but like this is the equivalent of you finding Jesus’ wooden cart and using it as your daily driver. Is it not? Hasn’t it been like a 1000 years?
its almost four thousand years between KOTOR and the Mandalorian
Holy shit, how has technology progressed so little in all that time? Basters are still blasters, swoop bikes are basically pod racers, and the tusken raiders are culturally indistinguishable from ANH.
Technology barely progressed since the Rakata Infinite Empire, 26,000 years.
in my head, its because the Rakata stuff was so advanced and well designed that it didnt need much improvement. its also like when some tech is so advanced its hard for normal people to be able to maintain it, let alone improve upon it, sort of like how its hard to know what exactly is going on in a LLM neural net. what has always tripped me out is basically every mechanic on any random backwater planet has the ability to fix almost any ship random spare parts laying around, so I guess its best not to think too hard about it I suppose.
Wow, civilization just hit the level cap or what?
Kinda. I think of it as the inheritor species just didn't have the technological advancement to iterate on Rakatan tech. Like how most people know how to drive a car, know when it isn't working, but can't design or repair an engine. The tech is so far beyond the capabilities of the inheritor species
The universe is nonsense, it ain’t that kind of movie kid
Next you'll be telling me that you can't really hear explosions in space.
Slave 1's Seismic Charge goes brrrrrr
Oh yeah, square sine wave BLAAAT. I love that sound.
Ya, Star Wars is fantasy in space 🤷, just don't worry about it and enjoy the story.
The widespread adoption of FTL travel is prehistory in Star Wars. The idea is they have roughly technologically platued a long time ago, with only tiny incremental advancement ever since. Usually in tiny percentages of improves efficiency, or design utilizing known technology in novel ways. Real innovation happens, but it's rare.
It's because in order to sell a "Star Wars" title as such, it has to include 'iconic' pieces of Star Wars technology - or it becomes another sci-fi IP. They tried with different ship designs (pirate galleon-types), lightsabers with backpack batteries, etc., and they never took off.
Fans associate "Star Wars" with certain things and if the story (book, comic, game) doesn't have it, is it really Star Wars?
It's like driving a Briton war chariot down the freeway
*Assyrian
KOTOR occurs around 4000 BBY
it would be if we were still using literally identical technology to that era like they are in the SW universe.
Yeah, though one of the general ideas in Star Wars is that technology doesn’t really ever advance in a meaningful way.
I think in-universe the explanation is that the original colonizer species, the Rakata, were so crazy advanced that they left all this tech but nobody can actually improve it significantly.
With the Rakatans themselves basing their own tech off the older Gree, Kwa and Celestial civilizations.
While there is precedent for ships of this era to be found in junk yards and restored such as the hammerhead, I agree it would be unlikely.
I saw another comment suggesting that perhaps the blueprints survived and the ship could then be rebuilt and upsized/customized. Thought that was a cool idea too.
For some of it they don't even really understand how it works like hypderdrives, they know what tooling is needed to make them, but the principles of physics that underpin the tech is more or less lost. The modern equivalent would almost be like me knowing how to put together a gaming PC but having no idea how to manufacture a processor chip. When some starship manufacturer comes out with a "new" more efficient hyperdrive its like me slapping a bigger fan on my PC heat sink and eking out a extra 0.5% performance.
Technology can't advance exponentially forever. There has to be a peak.
We can only make circuits so small. We can only make batteries so powerful. We can only work within the laws of physics(be it real or fictional, but there's still laws).
The Star Wars Galaxy basically reached that peak 10,000 years ago. There's different designs, different UIs, etc. It can be different, but can't really get better.
"The High Republic" completely messes with that idea and that's why I tbqh like it more than the Old Republic.
This is arguably more of a legends thing though. The difference between the High Republic, Prequels, OT and sequel era is pretty significant technologically.
SWTOR muddies this in legends though by having basically prequel era technology only a few hundred years after KOTOR while KOTOR technology was pretty primitive in comparison. I think a lot of people consider SWTOR it's own continuity for this and other reasons.
It’s all superficial. Hyperdrives are hyperdrives, blasters are blasters, things hover. The technology that does advance is always more of a plot point or macguffin, like bacta or death stars or just crazier, bigger ships. Generally, of course
Hell, IIRC bacta is actually worse than kolto. It's just a big deal that something almost as good can be mass produced.
Putting 12 inch guns on Noah’s Ark and going on a cruise.
But can it handle the weight or recoil?
Well only one way to find out
Dude is already using a relic by flying the N1. Basically found a fox body mustang and engine swapped it to a gen 5 LT1/LT2 V8.
It's been a long time. But generally Star wars tech hasn't changed too much (except when the plot demands to say something is now outdated). It's like a gap between iPhone 10 and then whatever iPhone we are in. But unlike iPhones the internals of the ship can be retrofitted to modern standards.
Din managed to add a hanger but still no bathroom on the Ebon Hawk.
Maybe they're all got chamber pots by their beds and they dispose of everything down the secret compartment in the port storage.
Everyone just shits on the floor and Zaalbar eats it.
Maybe the bathroom is in the room Juhani hides in, room 11.
That's what the airlock is for.
I've seen a few layouts that turns room 11 into a little bathroom which I think makes the most sense. That or maybe that's what I did in my head any time I think about trying to play the TTRPG and find a Dynamic-Class.
Piss jugs bubs. Way of the road
That's what grogu's dome on the N1 is for when he's not around. A throne with a view. My headcannon is that nobody's told him he's literally sitting on a toilet every time he rides with mando.
nobody poops in space. using the toilet works different in the SW universe. you think Yoda was waking up at night to piss in the swamp?
I love KotOR and the Ebon Hawk but this is way too fan servicey.
Pretty sure the Hawk is way too small to store a fighter. Also it would be like, 4000 years old- if it existed at all, that thing would have been ship of Theseus'd a hundred times over
The Ebon Hawk wasn’t that big
The Ebon Hawk is approximately 4000 years old by the time he finds the ship.
The Ebon Hawk is approximately 24m in length while Din's N1 is 11m in length
Must The Mandalorian touch everything in Star Wars? Can it just......not?
Aw the old Ebon Hawk, beautiful. That was a great nod to future/past light freighter hero ships.
You know, I'm still not into what they did bringing in the N-1 fighter. Listen, it's a beautiful fighter, but it's not a bounty hunter ship. Its in the wrong show.
"well the Mando isn't hunting bounties anymore..."
Which is entirely symbolic of everything wrong with the writing post Season 2.
They blew up his home in Season 2, and since then he's been homeless and feels almost listless. Then they tried to fully domesticate the character by the end of Season 3.
"Hey look there's ol' Uncle Djinn sitting on his... porch" Like what are we even doing?
They changed the show so much that now it feels like the entire draw of the show has been lost. They went from The Good the Bad the Ugly (in space) ... to Petticoat Junction.
Now the original ship is back? So i don't even know what that's about. Talk about going back and forth in direction.
Typical post-Lucas Star Wars. Rey is maybe somebody? No, she's nobody. Actually, she's a Palpatine. Lets give Grogu to Luke. Makes sense, right? He's one of the only Jedi left. Oh wait, all his students get murdered by a bad(ly written) villain! Does that mean Grogu gets murdered? Oh shit, we need a rewrite! Oh shit, they already aired the episode? What else is on air right now? Boba Fett? Okay, look, we're taking 33% of your episodes to fix our major storyline fuckup.
If ever there was more direct confirmation that they were totally lost over there, ending a season of a show with your main action hero sitting on a porch waiting for something to happen like a retiree on Miami Beach, is it.
That was atrocious writing from every angle.
Bullshit, that was a nice little ending since it's very much the end of the Mando series itself (well, for now, at least). The movie is more of a "one more adventure" type of thing. Mando and Grogu deserve to have a place to settle down and call home. Not everybody needs to have some tragic or bittersweet ending.
Except it must be bittersweet.
Grogu will live for at least 800 Years... Djinn will be dead before he's even a teenager by the standards of Yoda's species. Best case scenario, Djinn dies and Grogu will have to go on by himself... as a kid. This false ending is nothing but that... false. We know the story doesn't end here, so pretending as if it does is just of waste of time for the audience.
But even ignoring that little nugget. The ending was entirely too sweet and perfect, sacchrine is the word for it.
This amazing old west/space bounty hunter show comes to an end with the hero with his feet up on a porch? Narratively that is beyond boring to me. It felt like the writers having no clue what to do with him and just trying to slip him into a place to keep the character paused. IT felt completely out of place.
But again, this is a matter of opinion. You can feel however you want, but after the mad dash to the finish, this final scene to me just smacked of a writers room who was entirely out of ideas, spent, tired, worn out. So what to do? They parked him in a cabin and said "that'll do" until they can figure out what's next.
Gone is the dynamic or moving ending of the previous two seasons, where it felt like the show could go anywhere. Now it feels like the next episode were going to watching him fish or go golfing... or having Fondue night! That might have been slightly better then what we got to be fair.
This show began as this blast of fresh entertaining exciting air.... and ended with a sad old boring fart.
So you want a show with no plot? Just a "bounty of the week" to hunt down and eke out a living? Sounds boring to me.
Grogu was Din's last bounty. The inspiration for the series was Lone Wolf and Cub, where Ogami Ittō was the shogun's executioner before everything went to shit. Then he's on the run with his infant son, Daigorō, on a quest for revenge after the brutal murder of his family and framing of other crimes against the shogun.
Hopefully, you can see the similarities and where they end.
Din received a different quest, and Grogu is given a similar test as Daigorō. They even got their "revenge" with the defeat of Moff Gideon at Mandalore. Bonus Points: Din didn't die like Ittō, and Grogu didn't need to avenge daddy.
Din becoming Landed Gentry on Navarro, after everything he's done for them, isn't the worst thing in the Galaxy.
No, I just wanted a story that felt like it actually was going somewhere and didn't feel like a mad dash to the finish that abandoned any semblance of an interesting plot.
The search for redemption should be a long and winding road. IT is not a simple path, or a boring one. When you screw up something you earnestly believe, it isn't solved by a simple bath in water.
The problem was they made out that going back to Mandalore and bathing in some water was the end goal. Guess what, he does that by episode 3. Then Djinn meanders into irrelevance, and other characters take over the narrative. Djinn, like Grogu, is just along for the ride. Nothing He does after this point is something we even need Djinn for. As much as I love Bo Katan, her story then basically becomes the story. Dijnn is just... there backing her up. That's fine if this wasn't The Mandalorian. She should have her own tale, her own journey, told on her terms. She deserves that, but she doesn't get it.
The show becomes a story that is bigger then Djinn, and lacks relevance for his journey. There is no further conflict between his two halves, instead it's all transferred to other characters, who solve their issues with a couple of arguments in a few episodes. A half a century rift of religion is solved over a fireside chat, and one leader of one side suddenly deciding 'were all good now'.
Sorry, but that just is ... underwhelming.
The redemptive story for Djinn ends completely and leaves us bereft. Characters who go on a quest like this usually must face many challenges, past, present, and future. They must battle their own shadows, their own mirrors, their own failures. Each challenge brings them closer to that touch of the divine, to that final destination.
None of this occurs in Season 3. Instead we get a scramble to shove in the
-recovery of Mandalore,
-the looming threat of imperial spies and loyalists, (we spend a whole episode on this and it goes almost no where except to make it clear that Thrawn is coming! I've got goosebumps! Except it's just an old guy who knows him and thinks He's coming back... so... yay?)
-Grogu's laughable 'training' where He literally cheats with jedi powers to win. So i guess he didn't have to choose then? That's great You can be a Mando and a jedi and never have to compromise, isn't life grand. Remember kids, you can be anything you wanna be, you never have to actually face hard choices in life, you can have it all!
-the healing of a violent religious schism, the anti-climactic handing over of the darksaber completely undermining any narrative significance it had (only for it to literally be an afterthought in the 'final' conflict)
-then we discover not only is Mandalore not dead, it's also still got people living on the surface... using skiffs to ride around like wooden sailing ships... What are these people eating? How are they surviving the radiation without looking like mutants? Why haven't they been killed of by the imperials using the planet as a base? Oh and they just happened to have been loyalists to Bo Katan's family, who have happened to survive all this time, and look at that they want to follow her again without so much as a howdy do? Bless my stars.
Man... what you wanted more? Ok
Lets rush to the final episode. Lets also just completely ignore jack black and Lizzo and Christopher Lloyd in a story so convoluted and confusing and weird that no one has yet to really understand what the point of it was... (you got Doc Brown, and he's playing a disgruntled droid maintenance officer no. 2? What?) i have zero problems with cool cameos in Star Wars, I care that they are wasted and have zero relevance and could literally be props and card board cut outs. Like at least give them something to do that matters or feels interesting. This was not that.
We then get...
-a long teased battle between the Mando Fleet and The Imperial fleet that we never actually see.
-Grogu fighting the emperor's crimson guard
-Djinn fighting the guard
(side bar, that is three times these guys have been punked entirely, Yoda, Rey & Kylo, and now Grogu (not a jedi barely a padawan learner) and a Mando. I'm beginning to think they are all hat and no cattle. Like can we get one show or movie that makes it clear that these guys in red aren't just chumps? And no, them killing one Mandalorian does not prove they are great fighters, a battle where they team up on one already tired guy, really doesn't give them any credit.)
-then a three way with the big bad who reveals he's trying to literally jam together every great warrior in the entire history of star wars, Clones, Mandos, Force USers etc. Talk about generic villainy. That plot was old when it was in the fantastic four in the 70's. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllYourPowersCombined
-Grogu once again saving Djinn and Bo-Katan
-the formal adoption of Grogu,
-the reclaiming of the forge
I'm sorry but the show went off the freaking rails in my opinion. IT just reeks of too many writers, too many cooks, and rushing to the finish. Along the way they literally made the show into a hodge-podge buffet of different ideas that feels like a Star Wars left over mash, nothing solid, all ideas and feelings, with very little substance. Gone is the simple cohesive story, slowly building towards something, instead its a mad dash to stuff as much as humanly possible into a short season of TV.
Oh and if you are still reading, please don't be one of those folks who equates 'length' with 'anger'. I'm disappointed by the direction they took the show, but it is just a tv show. I think we all get a little to quick to make it seem like anyone who is critical of something must then 'hate' that thing.
Nobody goes on a multi-posr rant without being at least a little angry.
Take it easy, nephew.
Well I do, and I'm not angry. Sorry, that's just my thing.
I write alot... period. Being passionate about something does not equal anger, and just because I'm ok with writing 500 or 1000 words posts to express myself doesn't make me angry.
I still have no idea why people judge others like this. IT's so insulting and derivative towards others for having a lot to say.
"Oh you have a lot to say? Must be frothing angry person"
So I guess every long essay about a subject must come from an angry person. Also since when is a few paragraphs alot? When did that start?
Also, not your nephew. No need for pejoratives.
That's another thing, why do people who disagree with my point of view always get so personal? Its like a repeat thing. i post something I don't care for, an opinion that isn't some glowing love fest, and the response is always "You are angry/you are a terrible person/you must suck in real life/you are a child -insert- insult." and those are the nice retorts. Some get nasty, and I end up blocking them. I avoid like the plague saying anything about others, and always i seem to attract the same responders, people wanting to tell someone else off.
Like is that all people can do now? Someone has a contrasting view, regardless of how valid or invalid it might be, and the first response is to insult them, put them down, and call them names insinuate they are a child. Having been on message boards since the 90's it's always been there, but it's gotten way worse now.
One person even intimated that writing a lot is my way of attacking others and making them read. Like how do you even respond to that?
Okay, you passionately disliked an entire season of a television series. We're talking about eight episodes, 388 minutes, nearly six and a half hours that you cannot seem to get over.
And, honestly, I think you misread the entire thing. You thought the series was something it wasn't. You wanted it to be something it was never going to be. The letdown you suffered from expectations you put upon yourself is self-inflicted.
And rather than take a step back and reevaluate, you're just stewing in your misery. You let fucking guest stars distract you from the story in an entire episode. Who the hell cares if Jack Black, Lizzo, or Christopher Lloyd was in Star Wars? I think a much healthier reaction would just be, "Oh, my God, Jack Black, Lizzo, and Christopher Lloyd are in Star Wars!"
You are taking this personally. Have been for years, now. Has that thought honestly never occurred to you?
"...always i seem to attract the same responders, people wanting to tell someone else off."
You five seconds later...
"You are taking this personally. Have been for years..."
Damn, I called it.
A lot of assumptions about me in this...
So because I don't like something or it disappointed me I'm miserable? Really?
Criticism is not hatred. And being unhappy about how a show turned out is not the sum total of my life. Like where are you getting this?
Because I have a lot to say I'm taking it personal? How do you know this?
Oh and the guest stars weren't why that episode was terrible, it was a terrible plot with a ton of really poorly written scenes that honestly didn't go anywhere. The Guest stars were the least offensive thing about it. You would know that if you actually read what i wrote and didn't jump to conclusions.
"And rather than take a step back and reevaluate, you're just stewing in your misery. "
So because I won't change my opinion I must not be reevaluating? I lack self reflection and I must be miserable because I still talk about it? Again, a lot of negative assumptions and personal attacks on me because I have different opinion then you.
I feel like this is a lot of projection on someone you don't know.
Why are you acting like you know me? i feel like a lot of the folks who respond to me are using me as the punching bag for a lot of of their negative feelings. IT's honestly really gross. And since when do you get to determine what is healthy? Seriously, who made you the arbiter of positivity? Like what a great position, just out here judging everyone and thier mental health because they like writing and discuss in detail what they liked and didn't like about the tv they watch? Like seriously?
Also I've known misery, I've seen and felt it first hand, I can tell you that not liking a season of a tv show and talking about it is not 'misery'.
But hey, just keep going, I'm certain at some point you'll make some more great cutting and derogatory remarks that will make me like the show. That's a really great way to convince me.
Any assumptions I've made are based on these interactions. This is what you've given me so far, and I have little reason to think otherwise about you.
I'm not here to convince you of anything. Whether you like something or not is no skin off my back. I think what you call passion is unhealthy for you.
Nobody hates Star Wars quite like Star Wars Fans.
Never said I hate Star Wars. That's you making wild assumptions again. I love it, it's been a huge part of my life, and even when I'm not happy with something, I would never hate it.
That's a ridiculous thing to suggest.
But you have zero clue if this is the case, you don't know me, and its really messed up to think you know whats healthy for other people. I would never do that about your opinions. Like how would you feel if i judged your words and decided I know what's best for you?
You've made a lot wild assumptions about me, and a lot of them aren't who I am, or even a shade of who I am.
I write a lot, its what I do. You Judging me because I didn't like something and take some time to list out my issues... what's up with that?
I find it sad that people can't express some banal opinions about a freakin' TV show without others making assumptions that there is something wrong with them. As if the only possible reaction to watching something is always relentless positivity. That expressing how you feel openly even when those feelings might not be positive is seen as a sickness or something to be ashamed of.
Let people feel how they feel, and if you want argue with my comments that's all good, but don't make it personal.
I'm not out here attacking you, so I just don't get why you feel the need to go there.
Actually scaled image.
Don't think this is working out, chief.
There are a lot of problems with this idea, the first of which is scale. The OEM N1 is 11 meters long, while the Dynamic Class Freighter is 27.24 meters long. That means the gap in which to install a working shuttle bay needs to be at a minimum of 13 meters to allow for moving around the front and back of the docked ship as well as a comfortable margin of error when landing.
In addition, the width and height of the N1 (never explicitly stated, but largely agreed to be 4.9 and 2.7 meters respectively) means that the Dynamic hangar bay would need to be larger than an entire deck tall to accommodate the N1.
I'm sure someone with some computer modelling expertise can prove me wrong if my assumption is incorrect, but until I see it, I'm not going to believe this would be possible.
I get the impression it may have been scaled by eye to the interior map / model of the ship used in KotOR, which is around twice the size of the actual ship from outside (this is a common video game concession to make an area playable).
Love the nod but scale doesn't work and the Ebon Hawk is something like 4000-4300 years old (it was at least a century old if not multiple when we used it in the first KotOR) by the time of 11 ABY. Also in the image showing the nose of the ship, you have it upside down. The landing gear is on top lol
That ship would be over 4000 years old by the time period the Mando movie takes place in. That ship is long gone and recycled.
Don't think a Dynamic Class can fit a hangar for a N1, it could barely fit a swoop. I say barely because it almost takes up half the cargo space.
But it would be a very cool idea regardless.
Something I also see work out as mando's companion, since he got over his droid-phobia with IG-11 would be having a HK-47/51 unit.
We already have the HK that Morgan owns, but the older models are way more iconic and would fit Mando as a bounty hunter better. Even if he would work for the New Republic. It's still a fun idea he would need to keep tabs on his murder droid.
They're all murder droids, really. Seriously, have we ever met one that isn't unhinged? Especially astromechs, now that I think of it.
I love this even though the N1 is basically half the size of the ebon hawk.
Wait. The Ebon Hawk would be well over 4,000 years old. Is there anything in the Star Wars universe showing ships that still exist from the old republic in the more recent timeline? That just a very long time for a ship to last….
If both are mapped for SWtRPG then we should be able to confirm the scale.
wtf is this title?
That would be a cool hero ship for a show honestly
Please turn the Hawk the right way up.
That doesn't look like a spaceship, it almost looks like a small space station!
Sure but that reduces the space to store all the meatbags.
Would a 4,000 year old ship really be something you’d want?
Even better, have a landing lock on a remade razor crest similar to Ghost/Phantom.
I got lost in that thing all the time…
Y do?
Neat idea, but the Ebon Hawk would be 4000 years old. Even with fantasy/sci-fi fudging, a space ship functioning 4000 years later is a bit of a stretch.
Now, finding a ship in the same style, sure. That’d be cool. But the Ebon Hawk itself doesn’t work.
I'd prefer something new, I love the Ebon Hawk but the last thing I want is more reheating of other characters left overs. They've proven they can make more iconic ship silhouettes, The Falcon, the Ebon Hawk, the XS Freighter all have great profiles IMO and I don't want Mando to abandon his N1. I think they should pay some human artists to sketch some new ships and make one that can fit or mount the N1.
The hawk would be so old lmao
Where is the bathroom?
Brings back fond memories of the Star Wars SAGA game I played in college with some friends. We got a Ghtroc 720 light freighter as our party ship (sold some Krayt dragon pearls to pay for it, so we dubbed it the Krayt's Pearl), and my Jedi character "commandeered" an Eta-2 from the Empire one session. Eta-2s are small enough that we figured out it was just the right size to turn one of the cargo bays into a small hanger for it, and it could just perfectly fit onto the cargo elevator and be able to take off.
I make fun of Dave Filoni for being too self referential and using "remember this?" in his stories a lot but even this would be too much for him.
Nah Peli is gonna refurbish a CR-90 for him callted the Tantive IV and crew it with droids.
I appreciate the effort put into this idea but star wars has too many 'Member-berries already, this would be too much I think
Apparently he has the razorcrest back and chromed out.
Thought this was real and almost had a heart attack. The Ebon Hawk needs to never ever ever ever ever be touched by Disney.
Great, now I need to find someone to play a game of Star Wars Unlimited with me because this post is making me want to play my deck where I can have Din pilot the Ebon Hawk.
This is the equivalent of Kim Kardashian ruining the Marilyn Monroe dress.
Get your own, don't degrade historic pieces.
How old is the Ebon Hawk again in Battle of Yavin years?
Hawk is a bit too small and 4000 years old.
I think a ship like this is a great idea for this, but I don’t think that this model, or the Ebon Hawk specifically, work super well.
Holy crap, I can see that...at least, much as I like the idea of that space being a hangar, I think it would only fit in an A-Wing. Two if one wasn't afraid of squeezing in.
Maaaan. If the ebon hawk became cannon I would lose my shit.
How awesome would that be?! Great idea to bring a KOTOR relic into canon.
N1 starfigther, Darksaber, and now this lmao
Wasn't the whole appeal of season 1 that it was contained story seperate from the mainstream events?
I can just see it now. Imagine you're in the writers room. Kathleen Kennedy storms in.
OP posts fan art and you bring up Kathleen Kennedy. Rent-free
2026 and people still don't even know what Kathleen Kennedy's job actually is so they just make fanfiction about her somehow being responsible for every single thing they don't personally like