Agreed, although I think a lot of that is the fact that Obi-Wan was both ready to go and join the force now that he'd served it's purpose, and that he'd rather be at peace and become one with it on his own terms now that 'the kids' were ready to take over. I'm certain he knew Yoda was still alive to fill in the gap, and that he was reasonably confident in his training from Qui-Gon to still manifest his voice and form as a force spirit to guide Luke where needed.
"Aware that he was losing the fight, Obi Wan accepted defeat and prepared to become one with the force. Before this, however, he warned Vader that while seemingly defeated he would in fact become more powerful still."
Disney Fanhome encyclopedia collection
2022
Volume 27 Darth Vader
"This duel was very different from their last. Obi Wan was older and weaker, while Vader was even stronger fueled by hatred and the thirst for revenge. Obi wan knew that if he sacrificed his own life, he could save his friends. So he allowed Vader to destroy him. Proving to be a truly great and selfless jedi."
Jedi Vs. Sith: Discover the power of the force
Disney/DK
2016
Not to mention that Vader has 26,000 storm troopers on the Death Star as back up. The longer the duel lasts, the more storm troopers will be called in to surround the fight. Even if he beats Vader, Kenobi isn’t making it off the Death Star (unless he beats him very quickly — which is unlikely).
Kenobi could fight a large volume of troopers — but he isn’t going the beat dozens, hundreds or thousands. Plus there is no way Luke, Leia, Han or Chewie make it out alive if any significant number of troopers arrive as back up.
Lastly, to actually kill Vader at this point, Kenobi would probably have to decapitate him. Just about everything else on Vader’s body has already been replaced or mechanically augmented. Even if Kenobi won the duel - Vader would probably still survive.
I mostly agree except for a slight difference: I think by a new hope Vader basically has resigned himself to just being under sidious’ thumb and pretty much death at that point. I’d say when Vader learns of Luke’s identity is when we see Vader in his true in suit prime. Learning he has a son almost immediately gives him a power buff because now there IS something worth living for and pursuing, that being trying to turn Luke to the dark side. I’d also say IMMEDIATELY after Luke falls down the shaft in esb is when Vader then switches to his struggle of hope and is then conflicted once again.
Right, he still hasn’t learned that you can love someone and not have ultimate power. When Vader sees Luke chose death over being with him he’s reminded of what happened with padme, except he doesn’t understand why they wouldn’t want ultimate power. ROTJ is when we see Vader really struggling with hope.
"When he says "if only you knew the power of the dark side" in ESB, he's boastful, when he says "you don't know the power of the dark side", he's pleading, like an addict, in an "oh you don't understand" kind of way when Luke asks him to turn away from the dark side.
So the question then is do you think him seeing Luke reject the dark side in empire make HIM completely reconsider the dark side? Because I agree, in ROTJ when he says that my interpretation is him saying ‘it’s not that simple’ because we’ve been shown multiple times that defecting from the dark side is extremely hard.
I think him seeing Luke reject him made him consider some of the life choices that had led him to this position. He was obviously trying to use Luke to free himself from Palpatine's control (since he full well knows that he can't kill him alone), so it must've been crushing when Luke threw himself down the shaft on cloud city. He doesn't kill Piett when he told him before "don't fail me again" and when he calls out to Luke through the force his tone of voice is a lot softer.
I think the reason why defecting from the dark side is hard is that it's addictive as hell, because a dark side user imposes their own will on the force and that feeling of power is quite addictive and in Vader's case its likely the only pleasure he has left. I also think he's afraid of Palpatine, when Luke talks back to the emperor he acts really shocked that anyone would talk to Palpatine that way.
In that conversation on Endor Luke is basically telling him "I will love you but only as Anakin Skywalker not as Darth Vader" and Vader tells him "oh you don't understand I'm addicted and I'm terrified of him and I can't ever go back to my old identity" and Luke replies "fine I won't love you then".
Damn yeah I agree. I think in one of the Vader comics he deals with the same thing with a vision of padme where she’s like the man I love is Anakin and he says that Anakin is gone and then she says then there’s nothing here for me. That SHOULD be an obvious wake up call to Vader but he doesn’t understand that love and power don’t have to be together. Luke and padme didn’t want galactic power, wanted to be with family, not galactic domination. Btw I f’ed the comic quotes but hopefully you get what I’m referring to lol
Vader never reached his prime due to his injuries against Obi Wan in Episode 3. If he reached his ultimate peak, he’d have been twice as powerful as Palpatine. He’s definitely stronger than what he was in episode 3, but this is this isn’t his prime and he’s still weaker than Palpatine. Plus he’s in his 40s here.
Back before Disney bought them, lucas was comparing a prime post ROTJ Luke to a ROTS Anakin. Anakin never reached his potential whereas Luke did. Having said that, Ashoka Series Anakin is way beyond a Prime luke. Anakin fits more as a force entity than an individual at that point.
He has lots of newly embraced rage and his combat skill as a jedi General but no training or understanding of the powers of the dark side. And his mental and emotional states are a complete wreck, likely with very little sleep
That point is when he had the most POTENTIAL but Obiwan manages to hurt him bad enough to both ruin Palpatines plans and Vaders max power.
While Obiwan definately should have double tapped Vader instead of leaving him, he did effectively save the galaxy in that moment by cutting Vaders potential power in half. Either a full powered Vader or Palpatine managing some body transfer nonsense would have made things A LOT harder for the good guys
he's absolutely comparable to top tier sith of the past. At this point he was effectively as good as he ever got. Any improvements beyond that would have been pretty minimal.
I think it's still a question of how much of his power is limited by his body. His arms and legs are automated....I expect they can't channel the Force like a living limb can. And if his living tissue is the conduit...his reaction times would noticeably be slower because he's middle aged. He may have more power but he can't channel it as effectively as a non-cybernetic person could. As a duelist he still has strength, but his speed is gone....his metal limbs can't react as fast and he's getting old. Underneath it all, he's like George Foreman in his 40's...still a champion, but not the same as he was in his 20's. At least that's my interpretation. I get it if you don't agree.
The problem is the movies dont show this. The movies show ROTS being his peak. Vader in the movies just isnt all that, canon be damned. One scene im Rogue One isnt going to convince people that cyborg Vader could wipe the floor with the Anakin that dueled Obi-Wan on Mustafar.
Vader wasn't just sitting on his hands waiting for Obi Wan to come to him. He trained dozens of Inquisitors and killed multiple Jedi. He was fully prepared to complete the circle and end Obi Wan.
None of those opponents or trainees was ever on the same level as Obi Wan, except for that time he dueled Ahsoka, and she could have beaten him. Starkiller from the video game but I don't know if he's still canon.
It's like if Muhammed Ali spent 20 years just fighting journeymen boxers, then getting thrown into the ring with Joe Fraizer. Both men on the wrong side of 40 and a lot of rough mileage under their belts? I'd say the guy that always had his opponent's number is the one that's going to win.
The thing everybody forgets is that Obi Wan was fighting Vader as a distraction so the gang could escape. He cleared the hanger (temporarily) so they could board the Aluminum Falcon. They're of course being tracked but Obi Wan knew the only way to destroy the Death Star was to get it close enough to Yavin for Luke to blow it up. Plus he was ready to ditch his meat suit and become one with the force so he could bug Luke while trying to blow up the Death Star with instructions on how to blow it up. The dude had a plan.
The hate Vader had for Obi-wan was all consuming. Obi knew once Vader had his revenge he wouldn't have anything to really hate anymore. Without that focus Vader can reevaluate his life and choose his child.
High-General "The Negotiator" Kenobi outplaying them all one last time, and giving his mortal life to make sure the abomination that is the Death Star is destroyed seems like a fitting conclusion to one of the greatest light siders in galactic history.
I don't see why Obi Wan would have sacrificed himself if he thought he had a chance to win. Like "If I die then Luke will be motivated to train and eventually, hopefully, defeat Vader," ...just defeat him now then.
I don't think he had the time. His strategy was to let Vader punch himself out or make a mistake....if he could have extended the fight he would have won.
I wonder if Obi held out some hope for Anakin, still. That's probably idealistic of me. But at the very least Obi understood that Palpatine was the ultimate villain.
Could’ve gone either way. Obi Wan, particularly in legends content, is considered one of the best duelists. In the ROTS Novelization, Windu basically told Obi Wan he was the best duelist in the Order. Also, in this fight, Obi Wan wasn’t really trying to win, more so he was trying stall to let Luke, Leia and Han escape.
Windu basically told Obi Wan he was the best duelist in the Order.
I think Mace said Obi Wan was the best at a specific form in the order, and that form was the perfect counter to the form Anakin used. So less that Obi Wan was the best duelist, but more that he was a great duelist specifically specialized to be able to beat Anakin, and was probably the only one in the order besides Yoda who could have beat him.
Yeah, he called him the greatest Soresu user in the order, the best defensive duelist. That defensive dueling was what let him survive Anakin long enough for him to make a mistake and get cut down to size.
Maul gets overestimated sometimes. He beats up on mid-tier opponents with relative ease, but has an almost perfect losing record against his own weight class, Qui-Gon being a notable exception.
If he hadn't gotten over confident and started screwing around with Obi Won, he would have won that fight in PM. I mean he had completely kicked Obi Won's ass, and could have pretty easilly stabbed him in the face while he was hanging there. Or Maul could have secure the lighsaber on the floor behind him.
But instead he stands there taunting Obi Won and gets caught off gaurd by a force manuever that should have been damn near impossible: a force jump using only finger tips for leverage while at the same time grabbing the light saber off the floor, activating it and swinging it in one fast fluid motion. Besides Yoda hopping around like a cartoon jackrabbit I don't think we ever see force enhanced mobility on that level in any other movie or show.
Well remember before qui Gon gets killed he meditates. Then he goes into the solo fight. My thought was always that when he meditated he made himself ready for death to become one with the force. Obi just did the same thing his master did.
I mean Maul was a situational case: he intentionally took Qui-Gon’s fighting stance to lure Maul into using the same move he killed Qui-Gon with, which he then countered
Compare that to a Vader who has learned from his losses
Also beating Vadar is like Obi-Wan's thing. Anakin was probably at his most dangerous on Mustafar and he beat him there. Did it again in the s Obi-Wan show. I wouldn't put a 3rd win past him
Luke was already much more well adjusted than Anakin having not grown up in the Old Order, so Obi-wan might’ve thought Luke would be better off learning on his own, with his death as a motivation to keep working hard becoming a Jedi.
I have to agree. We also know now that Yoda learned how to be a force ghost so that he could teach Obi-Wan to be a force ghost just so that they can continue to train Luke and maybe Leia unhindered. Failing to Vader is just the next part of that plan. He knew he was going in there to get Leia out and he wasn't come out in a physical form.
Every time he shows up he either gets beat or his opponent manages to briefly catch him unaware somehow so they can escape.
He fails to get a win against Ezra and Kanan any of the multiple times he encounters them. Cal escapes just fine. He loses to Obi-Wan multiple times, Is unable to defeat Ahsoka. Fails to capture Luke on Bespin, or shoot him down at Yavin. Also fails to defeat or capture Luke other times in the comics too. Although he does kill a lot of people he totally fails to retrieve the death star plans over Scarif.
He almost never achieves his goals. Fights to a draw against countless half-trained padawans and loses to fully trained Jedi. If you were a named character you're more likely to survive an encounter with Vader if you're a Rebel than if you're Imperial.
And that is why they really need to think twice about including him in every piece of media out there.
He let Kanan and Ezra go after clobbering them to lead him to the wider Rebellion so he could try to finish them all in one go. He defeated Ezra the second time near instantly and Ahsoka saved him. He would have killed Ahsoka had Ezra not used literal time travel to pull her out of history and save her life. Cal had to literally bring the entirety of the ocean crashing down on them to escape Vader and would have drowned if not for Merrin. Vader wins a lot when everything’s taken in context.
I’m talking in terms of direct fights here, not overarching goals.
My point was across plenty stuff over the years Vader has beaten or severely outmatched opponents to the point they had to flee (which is a smaller W in my books), much like how Dooku had to flee from Yoda
Also the duel on Oba Dia. Dooku schooled both Anakin and Obi-Wan, and spared the latter when he had a wide-open shot at his chest when he grabbed his sword arm, but he kneed him in the gut instead, and hip-tossed him.
Vader the guy who's spent 20 years doing missions for the empire would definitely defeat an aged obi wan who spent 20 years on his ass on a desert planet except for one time
In that situation? Obi Wan would have had to deal with a very panicked Luke Skywalker jumping in to try and help. That would have sealed everything right there. Vader cuts down Luke and Obi Wan would have likely been forced to retreat to save the others and protect Leia.
But if the fight is straight up with no outside interruptions, I think Obi Wan wins or gets away. Sure he's not the same as he was, but neither is Vader....if I recall correctly Lucas once said the original trilogy fights weren't as good because the duelist were an untrained boy, an old man and a cripple (his words). Vader by this time is not the duelist he was either. He's supposed to be in his 40's or early 50's I think...even with his enhancements his reaction times would be slower.
Obi Wan, however, has gotten wiser and has a deeper connection to the Force thanks to Qui Gon. His defense is perfect. Vader can't win unless Obi Wan lets him. If the fight really was all out to the death, Obi Wan would have eventually defeated Vader.
I mean he’s already beaten him twice before. Vader’s rage honestly seems like it’s paradoxically (for a Sith) been an impediment more than a benefit in their previous duels. It’s almost like his anger with Obi-Wan brings out his more angsty teenager rage and its associated lack of confidence and he kind of slips into the role of apprentice to Master Obi-Wan.
He’s even trying to psych himself up with his shit talk as much as he is trying to get to Obi. He says, “when I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master” because Obi-Wan is still very much in his head. Obi-Wan replies, “Only a master of evil, Darth,” and I feel like that’s him effectively telling Vader, “you never got as good as me as a Jedi and I’ve already beaten you twice as a Sith.”
I think there’s also the fear factor. Fear has always been an Achilles heel for Vader. The Emperor and Obi-Wan are the only two people left in the galaxy he has any reason to fear at this point.
I also just think back to how Obi-Wan so casually leveled Maul. He was obviously ready for him, but he made him look like a youngling. I agree Obi-Wan still wins this one.
Yeah I didn't mention it but the Maul fight really tips the scales towards Obi Wan for me.
And to answer why Obi Wan didn't kill Vader in that fight? He didn't have the time. He had to make sure Luke and Leia got to safety even if it cost him his life. If he had more time to wear Vader out or wait for his mistake (high ground), he would have won.
A counter argument might be that the fight with Maul was his peak. That no BS version Obi-Wan would have beaten Vader, but he’s past that prime. The Maul fight has actually become my favorite Obi-Wan moment BTW.
That’s nice but obi wan is in the decline and his only victory was against an out of touch maul. Vader however was in his prime, strongest he’d ever been even as anakin also from a novel obi wan states he’s outmatched in the fight
Obi-Wan himself straight up admits he had no chance of winning the Death Star duel.
In the canon From A Certain Point of View, it verbatim says he “has no hope of winning this fight” and his “resources are depleted”. Meanwhile, he senses Vader is only testing and prodding his defenses and still not going all out.
Lucas’ statement of Vader being a cripple has already been retconned. Time and again, Disney has consistently stated Vader as being stronger after his injuries.
Obi-Wan himself admits he would have lost. The narration confirms he’s correct. It remains fact that he’s inferior to Vader regardless of your personal convictions.
While I do like the emotion of both the duel in the Obi-Wan series and the duel between Anakin and Ashoka this is my one issue with both...they make Vader a lot less menacing if both were able to get a shot at his mask.
It doesn’t detract for me. It’s not that Vader struggled with someone of their skill level — he wouldn’t. It’s that the personal connections messed with his emotions and likely brought some conflict out in him where he wasn’t fully over to the dark side. The self doubt coupled with the emotions of who his opponent is makes it virtually meaningless to me in terms of power scaling. If he was to fight Joe Blow the Jedi and he had the exact skill set as Obi-Wan or Ahsoka, he’d wiping them in a minute.
They were on a giant battle station loaded with imperial troops. Even if Old Ben won the duel, he knew that the larger battle was getting the kids to the Rebels with the war-altering information that kicked the whole thing off.
Obi-Wan knew he had no chance going in. I think Vader could have destroyed him at will, but he was enjoying toying with him, like a cat with a mouse. Classic Anakin/Vader overconfidence. Even in death, Obi-Wan won again.
I’ve always wondered if Obi-Wan realized in his exile that Luke was actually the chosen one, and knew it wasn’t his place to kill Vader if balance were to return to the force
After the sequel trilogy some people say Luke is the chosen one since he refused to rebuild the Jedi and helped destroy the remaining Sith (indirectly).
Just 1-6 it’s Anakin. I should have said Luke was actually the chosen one or the only one to ensure the chosen one succeeds
Vader, even though I think Old Ben was genuinely giving Vader a run for his money and it was a genuine fight of equals I think ultimately Ben's stamina would've eventually given out. Meanwhile the dark side fuelled cyborg with a particularly gigantic vendetta against his current opponent probably wasn't going to run out of steam anytime soon.
Obi-Wan beat Vader in both Star Wars episode 3 and in Kenobi, he gave him a real ass beating, not once but twice. I believe Kenobi would have won in episode 4.
"Escape is not his plan. I must face him, alone." - Vader to Tarkin.
Obi-Wan didn't lose that battle. Yes he was killed. But that was about kick-starting Luke's journey. Ben's journey had come to an end. Escape for himself was not his plan. Making sure Luke got away was.
Obi-Wan succeeded in almost exactly what he set out to do.
Yes he did. Even in years between the Kenobi show and ANH he turned from a raging bull to a mellowed out warrior. And he only got stronger in his suit while obi wan was on the decline. Before he was seething at the mouth to even get a chance to fight him but now he’s casually walking up to him and taunting him
Being able to do acrobatics does not mean he can run. He is very slow, but makes up for it with brute force which will work on everyone, but Obi-Wan. His defense is too good.
Literally almost every piece of media proves that it is a deception. In the fallen order games he outspeeds cere quite easily. In rebels he keeps up with an Ashoka who would be in her prime and he does so quite overwhelmingly as he almost kills her. In battlefront 2 he runs and while not fast doesn’t mean his speed in combat is as slow as his running speed
Also the novel ‘from a certain point of view’ has obi wans perspective in the fight and he knows he will lose immediately
Vader, but there would have been enough time added that the Empire would have realized that the tractor beam was turned off, or more troops would have arrived to watch the duel and noticed the rebels about to board the ship. Movie over, Empire wins.
Obi-Wan gave himself up so that they could get the hell out of there.
Ben won that fight. He pulled off the most amazing use of the force shown at any time in the original trilogy by doing something so unexpected, but so perfect, that it hasn't really happened again. He gave himself completely to the force, left behind this plane of existence, but hung around as a ghost to complete his final tasks and obligations to Luke.
That little knowing grin to Vader, and Vader's subsequent confusion is still priceless. Vader has to be wondering the rest of the movie just what the heck Ben did to completely vanish like that.
Luke pulls off something similar in The Last Jedi... But a bit more ambiguous as he appears to die before vanishing, like Yoda did.
I think Obi-wan could have potential, given that he was one of if not the best duelists in his prime. Due to his age and years of not seeing Vader or fighting with his Saber, I feel like Vader would take it. Vader also trained under him and probably knows his tricks and patterns, so I see Vader taking the win.
IMO - Obi-Wan let Vader win. We know Jedi see the future and have visions. I often wondered if Kenobi had one about this. It's also inspires Luke and gave Obi-Wan omcient powers
I’ve been wondering a different thing here. Would Vader have preferred to stop Luke and the others with the droids (with Death Star plans) or just let them go if given the choice here.
Vader wanted the Falcon to escape, so that the Empire could follow it to the Rebel base. Given that the Senate had already been abolished, and that Vader didn't know about the Death Star's design flaw, he wouldn't have seen any real risk in allowing the Death Star's blue-prints to reach the Rebellion.
I know what the plan was. But say Vader kills Obi Wan and then Luke runs up to Vader instead of getting on the Falcon, does Vader then change the plan and just stop them all if they came at him? I guess so…
The thing about this fight we don't take into account is the reason it's so slow. Vader for once is not setting the pace of the duel but letting Obi-Wan set it. At this point (Original trilogy and prequels before the Kenobi show) The last time he encountered Obi-Wan was when he lost and got put into the suit. He doesn't want to lose again for various reasons, so he's cautious. At some point in the duel if it's prolonged he would press Kenobi and realize he's just an old man now and kill him.
Vader by a mile. This is only like 2-3 days after Hallway Vader from Rogue 1. It only took as long as it did because he was being cautious. Yeah, Obi Wan gave up, but only because the old man knew he his powers really WERE weak. They both knew it.
In the canon book From a certain point of view. It had obi wans perspective in the fight and he was tired and scared of Vader. Even describing Vaders arms to be like striking iron, not due to the fact they were metal but to the fact they didn’t move when struck while his did
He was being toyed with and he knew it and despite his best efforts he kept being pushed back with every attack he threw and then he eventually sacrificed himself. He would have been killed if he kept on fighting. there is no chance or move he could have pulled to save him
This scenes value imho was kind of destroyed by the Kenobi series.
Apparently Kenobi can just defeat Vader whenever he feels like it, and would just rather let the galaxy suffer and Luke and Leia stay hunted their whole lives instead of defeating one Sith. So in this scene we are left to believe he -could- defeat Vader, but chooses not to and forces the burden onto Luke.
I think while Vader probably wins, you have to give Kenobi a puncher’s chance. Kenobi’s whole career is him hanging with, and sometimes beating guys that on paper he shouldn’t really stand a chance against.
Kenobi sacrificed himself because he needed the fight to end quickly so that Luke wouldn’t leave. A prolonged fight where he “wins” but Luke and all of his friends are killed and he’s surrounded by stormtroopers isn’t really a win in any meaningful sense.
According to novel Obiwan had zero chance of winning. Vader was literally destroying his bones just by swinging his Saber with an unbelievable amount of strength. Vader was also very cautious and left no openings compared to how he usually fights, like he said “now I am the master” This is Vader at basically the peak of his power.
Vader was at a new peak as a duelist. He had been learning how to operate in his suit for 20 years, had enhanced his strength with the Force, had fine tuned his saber functions, had entirely rebuilt his dueling style.
Obi Wan had barely TOUCHED his saber in 20 years, had reduced contact with the Force, and was getting older and slower.
Vader was like 41, Obi was in his late 50's early 60's
The original duel does not accurately portray what a monster of a combatant Vader was any more than the original sequence shows how phenomenal a pilot. Just the entire original trilogy does not do The Chosen One justice, even in his excruciating life support cyborg suit
I guess Vader, he is wouldn't be exhausted so fast and he has more "training" with the lightsaber when hunting down rebels, jedis and other people. Obi has probably seen no real combat for decades
Obi Wan is pretty old and hasn't been in a fight for at least 20 years. Vader has been hunting and killing Jedi all that time and became the strongest duelist in the galaxy, and also has far stronger Force powers.
Vader would have eventually overwhelmed a crafty but tired and overmatched Ben Kenobi. He knows his tricks and he's in his prime as a Sith Lord.
Agreed, although I think a lot of that is the fact that Obi-Wan was both ready to go and join the force now that he'd served it's purpose, and that he'd rather be at peace and become one with it on his own terms now that 'the kids' were ready to take over. I'm certain he knew Yoda was still alive to fill in the gap, and that he was reasonably confident in his training from Qui-Gon to still manifest his voice and form as a force spirit to guide Luke where needed.
"Aware that he was losing the fight, Obi Wan accepted defeat and prepared to become one with the force. Before this, however, he warned Vader that while seemingly defeated he would in fact become more powerful still."
Disney Fanhome encyclopedia collection 2022 Volume 27 Darth Vader
"This duel was very different from their last. Obi Wan was older and weaker, while Vader was even stronger fueled by hatred and the thirst for revenge. Obi wan knew that if he sacrificed his own life, he could save his friends. So he allowed Vader to destroy him. Proving to be a truly great and selfless jedi."
Jedi Vs. Sith: Discover the power of the force Disney/DK 2016
Not to mention that Vader has 26,000 storm troopers on the Death Star as back up. The longer the duel lasts, the more storm troopers will be called in to surround the fight. Even if he beats Vader, Kenobi isn’t making it off the Death Star (unless he beats him very quickly — which is unlikely).
Kenobi could fight a large volume of troopers — but he isn’t going the beat dozens, hundreds or thousands. Plus there is no way Luke, Leia, Han or Chewie make it out alive if any significant number of troopers arrive as back up.
Lastly, to actually kill Vader at this point, Kenobi would probably have to decapitate him. Just about everything else on Vader’s body has already been replaced or mechanically augmented. Even if Kenobi won the duel - Vader would probably still survive.
I mostly agree except for a slight difference: I think by a new hope Vader basically has resigned himself to just being under sidious’ thumb and pretty much death at that point. I’d say when Vader learns of Luke’s identity is when we see Vader in his true in suit prime. Learning he has a son almost immediately gives him a power buff because now there IS something worth living for and pursuing, that being trying to turn Luke to the dark side. I’d also say IMMEDIATELY after Luke falls down the shaft in esb is when Vader then switches to his struggle of hope and is then conflicted once again.
Vader is a lot more domineering in ESB whereas in ROTJ he comes off as pretty depressed
Right, he still hasn’t learned that you can love someone and not have ultimate power. When Vader sees Luke chose death over being with him he’s reminded of what happened with padme, except he doesn’t understand why they wouldn’t want ultimate power. ROTJ is when we see Vader really struggling with hope.
"When he says "if only you knew the power of the dark side" in ESB, he's boastful, when he says "you don't know the power of the dark side", he's pleading, like an addict, in an "oh you don't understand" kind of way when Luke asks him to turn away from the dark side.
So the question then is do you think him seeing Luke reject the dark side in empire make HIM completely reconsider the dark side? Because I agree, in ROTJ when he says that my interpretation is him saying ‘it’s not that simple’ because we’ve been shown multiple times that defecting from the dark side is extremely hard.
I think him seeing Luke reject him made him consider some of the life choices that had led him to this position. He was obviously trying to use Luke to free himself from Palpatine's control (since he full well knows that he can't kill him alone), so it must've been crushing when Luke threw himself down the shaft on cloud city. He doesn't kill Piett when he told him before "don't fail me again" and when he calls out to Luke through the force his tone of voice is a lot softer.
I think the reason why defecting from the dark side is hard is that it's addictive as hell, because a dark side user imposes their own will on the force and that feeling of power is quite addictive and in Vader's case its likely the only pleasure he has left. I also think he's afraid of Palpatine, when Luke talks back to the emperor he acts really shocked that anyone would talk to Palpatine that way.
In that conversation on Endor Luke is basically telling him "I will love you but only as Anakin Skywalker not as Darth Vader" and Vader tells him "oh you don't understand I'm addicted and I'm terrified of him and I can't ever go back to my old identity" and Luke replies "fine I won't love you then".
Damn yeah I agree. I think in one of the Vader comics he deals with the same thing with a vision of padme where she’s like the man I love is Anakin and he says that Anakin is gone and then she says then there’s nothing here for me. That SHOULD be an obvious wake up call to Vader but he doesn’t understand that love and power don’t have to be together. Luke and padme didn’t want galactic power, wanted to be with family, not galactic domination. Btw I f’ed the comic quotes but hopefully you get what I’m referring to lol
Vader never reached his prime due to his injuries against Obi Wan in Episode 3. If he reached his ultimate peak, he’d have been twice as powerful as Palpatine. He’s definitely stronger than what he was in episode 3, but this is this isn’t his prime and he’s still weaker than Palpatine. Plus he’s in his 40s here.
Isn’t “prime” Vader just during Order 66 but before kenobi amputates him
Physically, yes. But as a Sith Lord, no. His power in the force grows exponentially in the years between RotS and ANH.
as a force user not really, he still had much to go. his prime is the force ghost we see in ahsoka
Yeah that Anakin at the end was terrifying. That Anakin would mop up the floor with anyone.
Luke was stronger in the force per Lucas, but Anakin had wayyyyyyy more combat experience.
Back before Disney bought them, lucas was comparing a prime post ROTJ Luke to a ROTS Anakin. Anakin never reached his potential whereas Luke did. Having said that, Ashoka Series Anakin is way beyond a Prime luke. Anakin fits more as a force entity than an individual at that point.
He has lots of newly embraced rage and his combat skill as a jedi General but no training or understanding of the powers of the dark side. And his mental and emotional states are a complete wreck, likely with very little sleep
That point is when he had the most POTENTIAL but Obiwan manages to hurt him bad enough to both ruin Palpatines plans and Vaders max power.
While Obiwan definately should have double tapped Vader instead of leaving him, he did effectively save the galaxy in that moment by cutting Vaders potential power in half. Either a full powered Vader or Palpatine managing some body transfer nonsense would have made things A LOT harder for the good guys
Still stronger than old Ben Kenobi tho
he's absolutely comparable to top tier sith of the past. At this point he was effectively as good as he ever got. Any improvements beyond that would have been pretty minimal.
I think it's still a question of how much of his power is limited by his body. His arms and legs are automated....I expect they can't channel the Force like a living limb can. And if his living tissue is the conduit...his reaction times would noticeably be slower because he's middle aged. He may have more power but he can't channel it as effectively as a non-cybernetic person could. As a duelist he still has strength, but his speed is gone....his metal limbs can't react as fast and he's getting old. Underneath it all, he's like George Foreman in his 40's...still a champion, but not the same as he was in his 20's. At least that's my interpretation. I get it if you don't agree.
He's a cyborg.
Vader in canon is stronger than Anakin ever was.
The problem is the movies dont show this. The movies show ROTS being his peak. Vader in the movies just isnt all that, canon be damned. One scene im Rogue One isnt going to convince people that cyborg Vader could wipe the floor with the Anakin that dueled Obi-Wan on Mustafar.
19 years after being a Sith you think THAT is when he’s in his prime? Especially when it’s been years since he’s had a lightsaber duel?
Vader wasn't just sitting on his hands waiting for Obi Wan to come to him. He trained dozens of Inquisitors and killed multiple Jedi. He was fully prepared to complete the circle and end Obi Wan.
None of those opponents or trainees was ever on the same level as Obi Wan, except for that time he dueled Ahsoka, and she could have beaten him. Starkiller from the video game but I don't know if he's still canon.
It's like if Muhammed Ali spent 20 years just fighting journeymen boxers, then getting thrown into the ring with Joe Fraizer. Both men on the wrong side of 40 and a lot of rough mileage under their belts? I'd say the guy that always had his opponent's number is the one that's going to win.
Ali beat Frazier in the end.
He wasn't in his prime in the Obi-Wan series?
He got bodied in that final fight, too. So lame.
The thing everybody forgets is that Obi Wan was fighting Vader as a distraction so the gang could escape. He cleared the hanger (temporarily) so they could board the Aluminum Falcon. They're of course being tracked but Obi Wan knew the only way to destroy the Death Star was to get it close enough to Yavin for Luke to blow it up. Plus he was ready to ditch his meat suit and become one with the force so he could bug Luke while trying to blow up the Death Star with instructions on how to blow it up. The dude had a plan.
The hate Vader had for Obi-wan was all consuming. Obi knew once Vader had his revenge he wouldn't have anything to really hate anymore. Without that focus Vader can reevaluate his life and choose his child.
“AND WHAT THE HELL IS AN ALUMINUM FALCON!?”
xD 🤣
I love that they got Mark, George, and Ahmed Best to voice in those
Good thing Emperor Palpation wasn't on the death start, or old Ben's plan never woulda worked.
Papa Palpatine says "whoosh"
That's how I see it too.
High-General "The Negotiator" Kenobi outplaying them all one last time, and giving his mortal life to make sure the abomination that is the Death Star is destroyed seems like a fitting conclusion to one of the greatest light siders in galactic history.
I don't see why Obi Wan would have sacrificed himself if he thought he had a chance to win. Like "If I die then Luke will be motivated to train and eventually, hopefully, defeat Vader," ...just defeat him now then.
I don't think he had the time. His strategy was to let Vader punch himself out or make a mistake....if he could have extended the fight he would have won.
I wonder if Obi held out some hope for Anakin, still. That's probably idealistic of me. But at the very least Obi understood that Palpatine was the ultimate villain.
Based on the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, he seemed to have accepted that Anakin was gone.
Could’ve gone either way. Obi Wan, particularly in legends content, is considered one of the best duelists. In the ROTS Novelization, Windu basically told Obi Wan he was the best duelist in the Order. Also, in this fight, Obi Wan wasn’t really trying to win, more so he was trying stall to let Luke, Leia and Han escape.
I think Mace said Obi Wan was the best at a specific form in the order, and that form was the perfect counter to the form Anakin used. So less that Obi Wan was the best duelist, but more that he was a great duelist specifically specialized to be able to beat Anakin, and was probably the only one in the order besides Yoda who could have beat him.
Yeah, he called him the greatest Soresu user in the order, the best defensive duelist. That defensive dueling was what let him survive Anakin long enough for him to make a mistake and get cut down to size.
I'm wheezing
Just like Anakin, then.
Well done...
Just like Anakin
With a nice sear on the outside
Perfect counter to grievous, but yeah
Mace could have also schooled Anakin imo.
I think we can agree to respectfully disagree on that one.
In the Star Wars novelization, Vader just beats him.
The way he clipped Maul two years prior to this fight says he was still a very skilled duelist.. I think he could have defeated Vader… again……
Maul gets overestimated sometimes. He beats up on mid-tier opponents with relative ease, but has an almost perfect losing record against his own weight class, Qui-Gon being a notable exception.
Maul is a jobber honestly. His best outright win is vs Qui-gon who wasn't some renowned duelist
If he hadn't gotten over confident and started screwing around with Obi Won, he would have won that fight in PM. I mean he had completely kicked Obi Won's ass, and could have pretty easilly stabbed him in the face while he was hanging there. Or Maul could have secure the lighsaber on the floor behind him.
But instead he stands there taunting Obi Won and gets caught off gaurd by a force manuever that should have been damn near impossible: a force jump using only finger tips for leverage while at the same time grabbing the light saber off the floor, activating it and swinging it in one fast fluid motion. Besides Yoda hopping around like a cartoon jackrabbit I don't think we ever see force enhanced mobility on that level in any other movie or show.
Qui Gon was every thing but not renowned
Well remember before qui Gon gets killed he meditates. Then he goes into the solo fight. My thought was always that when he meditated he made himself ready for death to become one with the force. Obi just did the same thing his master did.
I mean Maul was a situational case: he intentionally took Qui-Gon’s fighting stance to lure Maul into using the same move he killed Qui-Gon with, which he then countered
Compare that to a Vader who has learned from his losses
Also beating Vadar is like Obi-Wan's thing. Anakin was probably at his most dangerous on Mustafar and he beat him there. Did it again in the s Obi-Wan show. I wouldn't put a 3rd win past him
Having them duel again in the show was such a mistake
From a story standpoint, sure. But it looked cool and Ewan and Hayden killed it, so it's all good in my book.
Luke was already much more well adjusted than Anakin having not grown up in the Old Order, so Obi-wan might’ve thought Luke would be better off learning on his own, with his death as a motivation to keep working hard becoming a Jedi.
I have to agree. We also know now that Yoda learned how to be a force ghost so that he could teach Obi-Wan to be a force ghost just so that they can continue to train Luke and maybe Leia unhindered. Failing to Vader is just the next part of that plan. He knew he was going in there to get Leia out and he wasn't come out in a physical form.
Maul was old and washed up. Vader is in his prime of all time (yes he’s more powerful than kfv) he had no chance
Only 2 years prior?!?! Bro is an old man here
Watch Star Wars Rebels
I did
I'm going with Vader this time. The guy needs a win at this point.
I mean he does got plenty of W’s, just not many against his old master
Does he really though?
Every time he shows up he either gets beat or his opponent manages to briefly catch him unaware somehow so they can escape.
He fails to get a win against Ezra and Kanan any of the multiple times he encounters them. Cal escapes just fine. He loses to Obi-Wan multiple times, Is unable to defeat Ahsoka. Fails to capture Luke on Bespin, or shoot him down at Yavin. Also fails to defeat or capture Luke other times in the comics too. Although he does kill a lot of people he totally fails to retrieve the death star plans over Scarif.
He almost never achieves his goals. Fights to a draw against countless half-trained padawans and loses to fully trained Jedi. If you were a named character you're more likely to survive an encounter with Vader if you're a Rebel than if you're Imperial.
And that is why they really need to think twice about including him in every piece of media out there.
He let Kanan and Ezra go after clobbering them to lead him to the wider Rebellion so he could try to finish them all in one go. He defeated Ezra the second time near instantly and Ahsoka saved him. He would have killed Ahsoka had Ezra not used literal time travel to pull her out of history and save her life. Cal had to literally bring the entirety of the ocean crashing down on them to escape Vader and would have drowned if not for Merrin. Vader wins a lot when everything’s taken in context.
I’m talking in terms of direct fights here, not overarching goals.
My point was across plenty stuff over the years Vader has beaten or severely outmatched opponents to the point they had to flee (which is a smaller W in my books), much like how Dooku had to flee from Yoda
Vader per novelization/guidebooks, Obi knew he had no hope of winning.
It's tough to say. Obi-Wan's specialty is pulling out the win against technically superior opponents, but that might just be the force.
Except against Dooku. Then he gets his ass whooped
I mean, when he loses to dooku, Yoda and Palpatine are right there (respectively) and he walks them off.
He got a Destiny, for sure.
Also the duel on Oba Dia. Dooku schooled both Anakin and Obi-Wan, and spared the latter when he had a wide-open shot at his chest when he grabbed his sword arm, but he kneed him in the gut instead, and hip-tossed him.
Vader the guy who's spent 20 years doing missions for the empire would definitely defeat an aged obi wan who spent 20 years on his ass on a desert planet except for one time
In that situation? Obi Wan would have had to deal with a very panicked Luke Skywalker jumping in to try and help. That would have sealed everything right there. Vader cuts down Luke and Obi Wan would have likely been forced to retreat to save the others and protect Leia.
But if the fight is straight up with no outside interruptions, I think Obi Wan wins or gets away. Sure he's not the same as he was, but neither is Vader....if I recall correctly Lucas once said the original trilogy fights weren't as good because the duelist were an untrained boy, an old man and a cripple (his words). Vader by this time is not the duelist he was either. He's supposed to be in his 40's or early 50's I think...even with his enhancements his reaction times would be slower.
Obi Wan, however, has gotten wiser and has a deeper connection to the Force thanks to Qui Gon. His defense is perfect. Vader can't win unless Obi Wan lets him. If the fight really was all out to the death, Obi Wan would have eventually defeated Vader.
I mean he’s already beaten him twice before. Vader’s rage honestly seems like it’s paradoxically (for a Sith) been an impediment more than a benefit in their previous duels. It’s almost like his anger with Obi-Wan brings out his more angsty teenager rage and its associated lack of confidence and he kind of slips into the role of apprentice to Master Obi-Wan.
He’s even trying to psych himself up with his shit talk as much as he is trying to get to Obi. He says, “when I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master” because Obi-Wan is still very much in his head. Obi-Wan replies, “Only a master of evil, Darth,” and I feel like that’s him effectively telling Vader, “you never got as good as me as a Jedi and I’ve already beaten you twice as a Sith.”
I think there’s also the fear factor. Fear has always been an Achilles heel for Vader. The Emperor and Obi-Wan are the only two people left in the galaxy he has any reason to fear at this point.
I also just think back to how Obi-Wan so casually leveled Maul. He was obviously ready for him, but he made him look like a youngling. I agree Obi-Wan still wins this one.
Yeah I didn't mention it but the Maul fight really tips the scales towards Obi Wan for me.
And to answer why Obi Wan didn't kill Vader in that fight? He didn't have the time. He had to make sure Luke and Leia got to safety even if it cost him his life. If he had more time to wear Vader out or wait for his mistake (high ground), he would have won.
A counter argument might be that the fight with Maul was his peak. That no BS version Obi-Wan would have beaten Vader, but he’s past that prime. The Maul fight has actually become my favorite Obi-Wan moment BTW.
That’s nice but obi wan is in the decline and his only victory was against an out of touch maul. Vader however was in his prime, strongest he’d ever been even as anakin also from a novel obi wan states he’s outmatched in the fight
Obi-Wan himself straight up admits he had no chance of winning the Death Star duel.
In the canon From A Certain Point of View, it verbatim says he “has no hope of winning this fight” and his “resources are depleted”. Meanwhile, he senses Vader is only testing and prodding his defenses and still not going all out.
Lucas’ statement of Vader being a cripple has already been retconned. Time and again, Disney has consistently stated Vader as being stronger after his injuries.
I can respect those points even if I'm not convinced.
Obi-Wan himself admits he would have lost. The narration confirms he’s correct. It remains fact that he’s inferior to Vader regardless of your personal convictions.
Considering Obi-Wan has beaten him several times now, Obi-Wan wins again.
While I do like the emotion of both the duel in the Obi-Wan series and the duel between Anakin and Ashoka this is my one issue with both...they make Vader a lot less menacing if both were able to get a shot at his mask.
It doesn’t detract for me. It’s not that Vader struggled with someone of their skill level — he wouldn’t. It’s that the personal connections messed with his emotions and likely brought some conflict out in him where he wasn’t fully over to the dark side. The self doubt coupled with the emotions of who his opponent is makes it virtually meaningless to me in terms of power scaling. If he was to fight Joe Blow the Jedi and he had the exact skill set as Obi-Wan or Ahsoka, he’d wiping them in a minute.
They were on a giant battle station loaded with imperial troops. Even if Old Ben won the duel, he knew that the larger battle was getting the kids to the Rebels with the war-altering information that kicked the whole thing off.
Vader was due for a win
Obi-Wan knew he had no chance going in. I think Vader could have destroyed him at will, but he was enjoying toying with him, like a cat with a mouse. Classic Anakin/Vader overconfidence. Even in death, Obi-Wan won again.
I’ve always wondered if Obi-Wan realized in his exile that Luke was actually the chosen one, and knew it wasn’t his place to kill Vader if balance were to return to the force
Was Luke the Chosen One?
After the sequel trilogy some people say Luke is the chosen one since he refused to rebuild the Jedi and helped destroy the remaining Sith (indirectly).
Just 1-6 it’s Anakin. I should have said Luke was actually the chosen one or the only one to ensure the chosen one succeeds
Vader, even though I think Old Ben was genuinely giving Vader a run for his money and it was a genuine fight of equals I think ultimately Ben's stamina would've eventually given out. Meanwhile the dark side fuelled cyborg with a particularly gigantic vendetta against his current opponent probably wasn't going to run out of steam anytime soon.
It won't be an easy fight by any means. Obi-Wan will definitely give him a run for his money, but ultimately I'd give it to Vader.
Vader, as good as Kenobi was his age would come into play.
My boy Obi would go 3 for 3
Depends who gets the higher ground.
The ground is even but Vader is taller
If Obi-Wan could’ve Obi-Won, then he Obi-Wouldn’t have sacrificed himself. He knew he’d lose eventually.
Obi Wan.
Beat him 2-0 already in real fights.
Plus beat him during friendly Jedi training matches on repeat.
Obi-Wan beat Vader in both Star Wars episode 3 and in Kenobi, he gave him a real ass beating, not once but twice. I believe Kenobi would have won in episode 4.
"Escape is not his plan. I must face him, alone." - Vader to Tarkin.
Obi-Wan didn't lose that battle. Yes he was killed. But that was about kick-starting Luke's journey. Ben's journey had come to an end. Escape for himself was not his plan. Making sure Luke got away was.
Obi-Wan succeeded in almost exactly what he set out to do.
Obi-Wan dog walks Vader any day of the week. Anakin never lost his impulsiveness.
Yes he did. Even in years between the Kenobi show and ANH he turned from a raging bull to a mellowed out warrior. And he only got stronger in his suit while obi wan was on the decline. Before he was seething at the mouth to even get a chance to fight him but now he’s casually walking up to him and taunting him
You do realize Vader can't run?
A misconception. He can flip and jump and do all the acrobatics he used to
Being able to do acrobatics does not mean he can run. He is very slow, but makes up for it with brute force which will work on everyone, but Obi-Wan. His defense is too good.
Literally almost every piece of media proves that it is a deception. In the fallen order games he outspeeds cere quite easily. In rebels he keeps up with an Ashoka who would be in her prime and he does so quite overwhelmingly as he almost kills her. In battlefront 2 he runs and while not fast doesn’t mean his speed in combat is as slow as his running speed Also the novel ‘from a certain point of view’ has obi wans perspective in the fight and he knows he will lose immediately
Vader, but there would have been enough time added that the Empire would have realized that the tractor beam was turned off, or more troops would have arrived to watch the duel and noticed the rebels about to board the ship. Movie over, Empire wins.
Obi-Wan gave himself up so that they could get the hell out of there.
Ben won that fight. He pulled off the most amazing use of the force shown at any time in the original trilogy by doing something so unexpected, but so perfect, that it hasn't really happened again. He gave himself completely to the force, left behind this plane of existence, but hung around as a ghost to complete his final tasks and obligations to Luke. That little knowing grin to Vader, and Vader's subsequent confusion is still priceless. Vader has to be wondering the rest of the movie just what the heck Ben did to completely vanish like that.
Luke pulls off something similar in The Last Jedi... But a bit more ambiguous as he appears to die before vanishing, like Yoda did.
Given George Lucas is on the record saying Vader was no match for Obi-Wan in A New Hope, I will go ahead and say Obi-Wan
I think Obi-wan could have potential, given that he was one of if not the best duelists in his prime. Due to his age and years of not seeing Vader or fighting with his Saber, I feel like Vader would take it. Vader also trained under him and probably knows his tricks and patterns, so I see Vader taking the win.
Kenobi.
Because why not go for the threepeat?
IMO - Obi-Wan let Vader win. We know Jedi see the future and have visions. I often wondered if Kenobi had one about this. It's also inspires Luke and gave Obi-Wan omcient powers
Kenobi beat him twice, then trained up vaders son to whup him too before peacing out to make sure he would
Vaders so weak in the OT movies. Wins one fight against a half trained Jedi and gets beaten as a pilot by a scruffy nerfherder with no force powers
Who ever tapped their sabers the hardest.
And there was a heap of stormtroopers coming over to help arrest Kenobi.
If Kenobi could win he wouldn’t have had to sacrifice himself. So Vader was always the intended victor.
I’ve been wondering a different thing here. Would Vader have preferred to stop Luke and the others with the droids (with Death Star plans) or just let them go if given the choice here.
Vader wanted the Falcon to escape, so that the Empire could follow it to the Rebel base. Given that the Senate had already been abolished, and that Vader didn't know about the Death Star's design flaw, he wouldn't have seen any real risk in allowing the Death Star's blue-prints to reach the Rebellion.
I know what the plan was. But say Vader kills Obi Wan and then Luke runs up to Vader instead of getting on the Falcon, does Vader then change the plan and just stop them all if they came at him? I guess so…
Obi-Wan.
If Star Wars hadn’t been Star Wars, how would you fill you time?
Probably jar jar
Probably at this rate Vader, Obi-Wan has no lava pits or rocks to throw
Vader
The thing about this fight we don't take into account is the reason it's so slow. Vader for once is not setting the pace of the duel but letting Obi-Wan set it. At this point (Original trilogy and prequels before the Kenobi show) The last time he encountered Obi-Wan was when he lost and got put into the suit. He doesn't want to lose again for various reasons, so he's cautious. At some point in the duel if it's prolonged he would press Kenobi and realize he's just an old man now and kill him.
Vader by a mile. This is only like 2-3 days after Hallway Vader from Rogue 1. It only took as long as it did because he was being cautious. Yeah, Obi Wan gave up, but only because the old man knew he his powers really WERE weak. They both knew it.
I really don't see why he would sacrifice himself if he thought he had even the slightest chance to take down Vader.
Vader
Jeff
In the canon book From a certain point of view. It had obi wans perspective in the fight and he was tired and scared of Vader. Even describing Vaders arms to be like striking iron, not due to the fact they were metal but to the fact they didn’t move when struck while his did He was being toyed with and he knew it and despite his best efforts he kept being pushed back with every attack he threw and then he eventually sacrificed himself. He would have been killed if he kept on fighting. there is no chance or move he could have pulled to save him
This scenes value imho was kind of destroyed by the Kenobi series.
Apparently Kenobi can just defeat Vader whenever he feels like it, and would just rather let the galaxy suffer and Luke and Leia stay hunted their whole lives instead of defeating one Sith. So in this scene we are left to believe he -could- defeat Vader, but chooses not to and forces the burden onto Luke.
I think while Vader probably wins, you have to give Kenobi a puncher’s chance. Kenobi’s whole career is him hanging with, and sometimes beating guys that on paper he shouldn’t really stand a chance against.
Kenobi sacrificed himself because he needed the fight to end quickly so that Luke wouldn’t leave. A prolonged fight where he “wins” but Luke and all of his friends are killed and he’s surrounded by stormtroopers isn’t really a win in any meaningful sense.
I think Kenobi just sacrificed himself cuz he knew he was gonna lose anyway
According to novel Obiwan had zero chance of winning. Vader was literally destroying his bones just by swinging his Saber with an unbelievable amount of strength. Vader was also very cautious and left no openings compared to how he usually fights, like he said “now I am the master” This is Vader at basically the peak of his power.
Vader was at a new peak as a duelist. He had been learning how to operate in his suit for 20 years, had enhanced his strength with the Force, had fine tuned his saber functions, had entirely rebuilt his dueling style.
Obi Wan had barely TOUCHED his saber in 20 years, had reduced contact with the Force, and was getting older and slower.
Vader was like 41, Obi was in his late 50's early 60's
The original duel does not accurately portray what a monster of a combatant Vader was any more than the original sequence shows how phenomenal a pilot. Just the entire original trilogy does not do The Chosen One justice, even in his excruciating life support cyborg suit
Vader for sure. Obi Wan knew he was going to lose.
So he sacrificed himself at the exact right time. When Luke and Leia would be there to witness it.
I guess Vader, he is wouldn't be exhausted so fast and he has more "training" with the lightsaber when hunting down rebels, jedis and other people. Obi has probably seen no real combat for decades
The point is the sacrifice
Did… did you watch the movie?
Obi-Wan clearly knows Vader is going to win. That’s why he does the sacrifice.
I gotta drop this fan-made version of their duel. If you haven’t seen it, you’ll love it:
https://youtu.be/to2SMng4u1k?si=bYTgOtgSOh2fxHdS
Ain’t clicked the link yet but I’m guessing it’s scene 38 reimagined right?
Yeah i seen it
Vader, anyone who says otherwise is just on cope.
Obi Wan is pretty old and hasn't been in a fight for at least 20 years. Vader has been hunting and killing Jedi all that time and became the strongest duelist in the galaxy, and also has far stronger Force powers.
Vader
Kenobi’s W’s are plot and bad writing
it was suicide not a sacrifice, and not Skywalker