No one works them, and then the business owners are forced to raise wages for that position until someone does take the job. This is elementary level econ stuff. The free market works, better than anything else in history up to this point. If someone is working that "worse job" it means it's worth it for them to.
The minimum wage isn’t meant to be a wage regulator but simply to act as a floor that prevents complete manipulation of labor. Chris Rock once said it best, if someone is paying you minimum wage, they’d pay you less if they could. There should be minimum standards that employers should have to meet if they wish to run a business.
In an actual efficient free market, all the parties must have equal negotiating power. The fact is, regulations actually make the market more free because they seek to make sure that the parties have more equal bargaining power so that the market stays free and efficient. Regulation actually is necessary for a free market, contrary to popular opinion in some circles.
This. If an employer cannot find any employees willing to do the job for $15 an hour (or whatever) they will be forced to raise what their pay their employees.
What are the potential employees with no skills and in desperate need of a job supposed to do when they have no better option than low wage positions? Starve?
Dude all this shows is that you've never actually researched how wages functioned before minimum wage began. Businesses will take advantage of people's desperation to lower wages.
Along with what you said, I also feel that in a modern society, we shouldn't have to be forced to leave our home state because of regressive policies like stagnating minimum wages, inability to get treated for certain health conditions, and lack of accessible social safety nets (along with others).
If it’s not worth navigating or literal thousands to someone, then I think it’s fair for them to stay and continue to work for whatever wage they earn. This isn’t an argument specific to this current situation, it’s a general risk/reward analysis
that seems like the logic a slave owner would have lmao
like 'if u cant afford to get out and u cant find somewhere to pay u a fair rate, then its a good thing u can continue to work for the pittance u earn from me! once u get some money, then u can leave. but, uk, u got no money. and im only giving u pennies on the dollar. s o.'
like debt servitude is alive and well throughout the globe- and this type of attitude furthers it fr lmao.
My logic is a kin to owning another human being and whipping them to work faster and pay them beans? Man, that is an incredible connection, but it really does land with no weight since everyone is a nazi homophobe. I was presented with two barriers; the cost of the move and a new environment. Both seem incredibly short-sighted. If an employer offered me double the salary, but in a new state, I take it without asking. In fact people do this alllllll the time. Not to sound elitist, but if you’re making federal minimum wage and the next state over is offering double for what you already do, I’m doing whatever I can to make that happen since there’s really no risk.
your logic is that, for some reason, if there isnt anyone providing a living wage around, you should continue to go w the suboptimal wage.
uk, instead of something intelligent like, if all people were paid a wage that allowed them food and shelter, theyd be incentivized to stay at whatever job needs them.
You had to have misunderstood me. It’s the opposite. But people are free to make their own decisions, then that idea was called being a slave owner. In multiple comments, I said to move to where the high wage is and that idea is up and down the socioeconomic scale
Bc it’s short-sighted thinking. “I can’t afford to move for more money that will greatly benefit me in the long run.” Put the cost of the U-Haul on a credit card or take a small loan. People act like moving is an impossible. Literally millions of people do it every month.
Jobs like fast food or retail were never meant to be full-time careers. If you expect to have a job like that and make $50,000 a year you’re delirious. It’s designed for teens stilll in school, retirees, etc. I’m not saying going to college is for everyone either…there are barriers to that whether it be low intelligence or not being able to afford it but fuck learn a skill like a mechanic or something where you can actually make good money without acquiring a bunch of debt to get there.
Jesus is it that hard to add thd other two letters (“y” and “o”) to your “u”. This looks like a text my 13 year old niece would send me not an economic counterpoint.
uk that language evolves over time. and, as the internet has grown in size, colloquial text has gained dominance. we see this in the rise of emojis, memes, and, yes, even using things like u. utilizing language in such a manner, while it looks ridiculous to others, is just as valid as writing essays w full grammar and punctuation.
but w/e, ur the one pressed, replying to me three times at 2am. so idk if ur ideals are the right thing to be following lmao.
So because I’m up late my ideals are messed yp? Are you stupid? Especially as you are awake as well??? Do you see any emojis in Reddit? I had to respond 3 times because you made completely nonsensical statements in 3 different comments. As for the meme and emoji argument, tell me you’re under 18 without telling me you’re under 18 haha. And no, the vast, vast majority of people talking online who are grown ups don’t use the word “u” like they are texting a friend about a sleepover.
What’s funny is how unwilling for fully believing they’re in a situation they cannot get out of. I think is why most people are in the situation they’re in, no faith in one’s self because it’s somehow someone else’s responsibility to provide the life you want to live. Thinking a 9% raise is going to help is also hilarious. It’s all a shit sandwich, but counting on other instead of yourself, it was sad a few years ago, but now it’s just funny
If the U.S. federal minimum wage had kept pace with the cost of living and productivity over the last 50 years, it would be approximately $26–$28 per hour today.
If adjusted for inflation only, it would be closer to $13–$14 per hour.
The large gap between those figures is the core of the debate.
The bottom line is that everyone should be making more money. I feel like this is a tale as old as time… The people with the very most, try to convince the people with less than them, that the real problem are the people with the least…”don’t look up, that which trickles down is mana from heaven and not in fact piss..”
The issue is the wealth vampires at the top, not anyone living paycheck to paycheck!
This issue is the majority of Americans unwilling to pay a premium for goods or services when they can get it for less elsewhere.
If all else is equal (and we know it isn’t but for easy apples to apples comparison)
Company A makes a widget.
- material costs $10 per widget
- labor cost $15/hour and a worker can make 1 widget an hour
- raw cost of widget is now $25
- not counting overhead (manufacturing facilities, accounting, taxes, marketing, IT, administrative and executive pay, etc)
Company B makes the same widget
- same material costs $10 per widget
- labor cost $10/hour and a worker can make 1 widget an hour
- raw cost of widget is now $20
- assuming same overhead
On the shelf at the store
- Company A’s widget is for sale at $50 (that means it’s maybe wholesale cost to retailer at $35, retailer marks it up $15 to $50)
- Company B’s widget is for sale at $45 (that means it’s maybe wholesale cost to retailer at $30, retailers marks it up $15 to $45)
In both cases the manufacturer and the retailer make the same $, $10 and $15 per widget (but a lower margin which is how products are evaluated but that’s a different conversation)
If all else is equal, which product will sell the most?
In the overall market, all else equal, we buy the least expensive widget to satisfy the need. Meaning the company paying a premium wage is at a significant disadvantage, and would have to find somewhere to reduce expenses to compete with one paying the lower wage.
Should Suzy in accounting get a lower salary to offset the higher pay for the worker? Maybe the CEO should take a pay cut? However - free market - that may open the company up to losing that talent they need to operate as other companies will pay them more. So then they have less efficiency (due to having to hire lower cost and this was experienced labor) and costs go up from that - and that happens across the pay spectrum.
Do I think a CEO making 10s of millions is a true reflection of their skills, not usually, but it is a reflection of their market worth - meaning if they are paid X it’s because they can get X on the open market at another employer.
The minimum wage is a trap. It is an artificial floor in the labor market created for political reasons because in a true free market economy we, the buying public, by and large will spend as little as we can which means we are completely ok with not paying a fair wage if it means we can get a $5 tshirt from temu, etc.
And what most don’t seem to comprehend is simply raising the minimum wage - it’s not magically more money, it’s part of a cycle where things cost more to produce and thus prices will increase to offset.
And for the record before I get flamed for being a pro business anti worker greedy whatever….
I’m a small business owner. I work hard to make sure we can pay our employees well, provide them benefits they couldn’t get at other similar employers. 1 because it matters to me that they are ok. 2 because it is self service and creates loyalty and longevity. That said, there are many things out of my control - health insurance costs went up 50-75% this year, g/l costs and property insurance has been steadily increasing, material and supply costs continue to rise - and all small businesses I know struggle to increase prices in a way that doesn’t turn away their clients while trying to maintain profitability so we can continue to take care of and make payroll every two weeks. There have been plenty of time I, as the owner, and not gotten paid so we could make sure everyone else was taken care of
Isn't your example a perfect argument in favor of a minimum wage increase? A minimum wage increase to $15 means company B has to compete at the same level as company A, and can't simply beat out their competition by paying workers less. Isn't that the entire point of government regulation, putting guard rails around companies to keep them from acting outside of the interest of the general population?
Your assumption is that either is paying minimum wage to start with.
My point is regardless of what the law requires it doesn’t put more money in the pockets of the low wage earners - it simply, long term, forces the cost of those low price goods do the low income earner pays more for what the buy.
It’s not like it’s worked to long term to keep people in a living wage space. Prices go up to eat up the increase and people are left where they started more or less.
The issue is expecting or relying on a low skill job to afford the ability to live comfortably on your own.
There are so many more factors influencing purchases that you left out. Quality, convenience, timely quantity, long term and bulk discounts, business relationships and, gasp, even a bit of morality. All things are never equal.
Minimum wage is net negative since a few decades ago. Everyone loves a raise, but you're mistaken if you think this minimum wage increase is going to relieve enough stress for anyone affected to call it "a positive."
It's expensive to be affluent, but it's disproportionately expensive to be poor. The raise sounds good on the surface, but without significant legal infrastructure changes, the wage disparity balloon continues to push the limits of its structural integrity.
Of course it’s a positive! Not a life-changing one but a positive still. Explain to me how having more money in your check each week/month is a negative…
You gotta look past the trees to see the forest, neighbor. Decades of data show wages haven't kept pace with productivity, inflation, and utility pricing.
The feel-good of a bump in pay is a temporary positive.
Then you realize, if you haven't made double-digit cost-of-living "raises" each of the last 5 years? You've lost significant buying power, even though your income is a bigger number than ever...
The reality of today's minimum wage is a net negative.
Yeah but that’s not what you said. I of course agree with the very basic and correct proposition that wages have not kept pace with inflation and certainly not the increases in housing costs or the costs of a higher education. But you said that no one could call the minimum wage increase a positive. I bet a lot of minimum wage workers would disagree with you. Is it a sufficient increase? Definitely not but still a positive.
Good point… fuck others because it effects you. Maybe we should be demanding change across the board instead and be glad that chronically underpaid people are getting marginally more.
A doubling of the minimum wage would absolutely skyrocket the cost of everyday goods. It wouldbt be a “I’d gladly pay a few more dollars a week to help the poor.” It would break many families.
Ideally all that stuff "should" balance out, yet we've seen how it doesn't. Makes me wonder where the starting point of inflation is, and fix it there... Or maybe it's a hydra at this point, and it will just grow two more heads for the one we cut off.
This outlaws work for people who can’t find jobs at the current minimum wage. Those that aren’t qualified. The ultimate minimum wage is $0. Compassionate.
Did you miss the part that if they can't get a job at the current minimum that it doesn't matter the pay, those people will be without jobs no matter the wage rate.
We aren't talking about those people as they are not in the job market and not relevant to any wages.
Neither. I own a business that can exist without exploiting the working class. I only have two employees both part-time but I pay them $25 an hour. And we live in a LCOL area.
The truest minimum wage of all is $0. If one can’t find work for a multitude of reasons they make nothing. With a higher floor on minimum wage jobs that provide value at a lower rate are illegal.
I hope this was sarcasm. Yes let’s completely collapse the economic system and pay someone $100 an hour for a job requiring no skills or education like flipping burgers or mopping floors.
I really hope this actually happens because we have had voter approved initiatives before and Missouri Congress is just like "yeah I don't care what the people say. We're not gonna do that"
How many folks on the MO side of the metro are minimum wage hourly employees?
Genuinely curious if anyone has stats on hand, or at least some from the last 2-3 years.
Seemed like a lot of places were advertising above min wage help wanted post-COVID. Seems like I still see a decent amount of those signs. I’d have to imagine that means places would start a few bucks above minimum?
Either way, this is good. Hopefully will alleviate some headache and pain for those who’ll get that bump.
Virtually every publicly traded corporation that targets the poverty class. Family Dollar. Dollar General. Save a Lot. CVS. Walgreens. So on and so forth. And the ones that don't on paper? You simply don't get full-time so benefits don't kick in.
I knew that last part. Seemed like I really noticed that after Obamacare passed.
This is totally anecdotal, but why does it seem like those Dollar stores are always staffed but so many things (that advertise higher starting pay) always seem to be short? Not that you know, just wondering out loud.
Because those types of stores are have naturally extremely high turnover because they're some of the worst jobs one can get that isn't manual labor. You deal with shitty corporate, shitty hours, overwhelming do this do that do more, without support. And on top of it, work conditions are bad, the customers are bottom barrel, you deal with robberies, nonstop theft, fights, unmedicated/ill homeless. So on and so forth. And with inflation, when they advertise jobs starting at $15, that $15 without benefits until 6 months in, isn't really worth it. And corporate culture doesn't care about employees lasting. They benefit from the churn so they don't need to give benefits or raises.
Remember how the proposition we voted for tracked minimum wage to inflation after 2026? Remember how Republicans passed a bill to repeal that provision?
Minimum wage is an arbitrary number. It’ll make companies pay more to their employees which will make them raise prices on their product and pass that cost onto the consumer. Or they will cut the number of employees they have and run with less workers and going with automated kiosks or just running with lower quality of service they provide.
It’s arbitrary because where does it stop? Soon $15/hr wont be enough to live on, so will $25/hr be enough? $50/hr?
oh god this line of thinking again... if raising the wage causes such disaster why are the states with the highest minimum wages often among the fastest growing economies in the country?
I guess thats a fair point 🤷 if we assume the goal is just "more money" but economics is about finding the right balance. Economists look for the sweet spot where workers earn enough to cover basic needs (rent, food, heat) without exceeding what the business can reasonably afford. Research shows that in most of the US that number is currently between $15 and 25 depending on the local cost of living.
God youre all ridiculous. High unskilled wages make skilled wages worth less. Think you electricians will be happy working in next snow storm when their pay will hold less value?
When companies have less customers, do you think they will just ignore it? They will adjust as well because making $0 from someone who chooses to not buy is worth less than lowering the price....
For some reason people like you dont realize that without consumers, the stores cannot function.
So when the unskilled labor wages force prices up customers will just not buy anything.... people like me understand that.
Many companies cant "adjust" they will close. Higher labor costs drive business out
Electricians joy in snow storms is not tied to minimum wage. How many electricians work in snow storms? Do you mean linemen? They already aren’t happy working in snow storms. Most people aren’t happy working in snowstorms.
Minimum wage goes up value of the dollar goes down. Skilled labor will leave and take less stress work. And we lose high skill jobs over seas....
Let the market control wages. Everyone wins. Government gets involved we all lose.
The idea of high skill jobs going overseas is interesting. To use your example of the electrician, it'd be awful inconvenient if Mandeep had to fly all the way over from India just to update my electrical box.
I'm not convinced that skilled jobs that require folks to be local to an area to do the necessary and practical work, are suddenly going to flee overseas. Though if the did for some weird reason, that would be an interesting way for a society to collapse, similar to old coal or metal town when the resources ran dry.
If the market is left to its own devices the poor get ground down to nothing. There are numerous studies that show minimum wage increases have a minimal effect on inflation increases. In fact, lower income workers tend to spend more of their money… giving them more in wages just moves that back into the economy. We’ve let the market control wages… it led to worker exploitation, unsafe environments, income inequality. It just leads to companies paying as little as possible to get unskilled jobs completed. So people who need the money have no negotiation power, so they don’t get negotiated up, they get negotiated lower between what worker is willing to work for the least.
Have you been looking around for the past 5 years? Prices already went up. A lot.
The only thing this bill does is kind of help poor people be a little bit less poor. Missouri will always be a backwards shithole state with people like you voting in it.
A $15.00 minimum wage isn’t even high anymore, even compared to relative states. Accounting for inflation, back in the day it was much higher. It’s also good for St Louis’s economy. If I live in STL and want to work a minimum wage job, why the fuck would I work in Missouri when Illinois pays more? You gotta think about Missouri in the context of the entire US man. This bill will help keep jobs in Missouri.
Dude had to squeeze a 1776 in that generic username. 😂
none of these people pay taxes! They don't work! They kill local wildlife and pets to take home and eat. They steal tax payer money to send back to terrorist groups. So... yea they're destroying our country. And WE are paying for it
This take would be hilarious if it weren’t so damn insane.
Prices have increased so much already that the people impacted by this literally can't survive without government assistance. You pay either way, let workers have some dignity.
It’s a mostly free market. If the companies raise prices, demand does down and prices drop until it reaches a balance. If demand doesn’t drop, a competitor will find a way to gain market share by providing a similar good or service at a lower price point.
New constraints like a higher minimum wage or other regulations force companies to adapt and bring innovation.
Not happy with how much money you have??
3 ways to put more money in your pocket...
Lower taxes
Reduce inflation
Get a better job
The magic number per hour won't matter until the government stops stealing our value from our labor.
We wont agree on the perfect fix but if we can get taxes and inflation lower or better removed we will all be better off
I only make $14 currently and I've been looking forward to the new year a lot cause of this lol
"get a better job"
Who's going to work the rest of the jobs then? They need to afford existence too
No one works them, and then the business owners are forced to raise wages for that position until someone does take the job. This is elementary level econ stuff. The free market works, better than anything else in history up to this point. If someone is working that "worse job" it means it's worth it for them to.
The minimum wage isn’t meant to be a wage regulator but simply to act as a floor that prevents complete manipulation of labor. Chris Rock once said it best, if someone is paying you minimum wage, they’d pay you less if they could. There should be minimum standards that employers should have to meet if they wish to run a business.
The free market does not work better than anything else in history. There now we've both made unsubstantiated claims.
In an actual efficient free market, all the parties must have equal negotiating power. The fact is, regulations actually make the market more free because they seek to make sure that the parties have more equal bargaining power so that the market stays free and efficient. Regulation actually is necessary for a free market, contrary to popular opinion in some circles.
This. If an employer cannot find any employees willing to do the job for $15 an hour (or whatever) they will be forced to raise what their pay their employees.
What are the potential employees with no skills and in desperate need of a job supposed to do when they have no better option than low wage positions? Starve?
Do what people have done since the beginning of employment…get skills.
Okay and then who's gonna serve you your coffee? Someone needs to. They deserve to live comfortably.
And then forced to raise prices…..
Dude all this shows is that you've never actually researched how wages functioned before minimum wage began. Businesses will take advantage of people's desperation to lower wages.
Good.
Isn’t it crazy there are states that still have the $7.25
It’s crazier to me that NYC’s is only 16.50.
Yep, like here in Kansas.
It’s crazier to still live there
Idk how old you are, but it costs literal thousands to move out of state not to mention navigating the housing space.
I’m sure if everyone was given the resources, they would leave their home
Along with what you said, I also feel that in a modern society, we shouldn't have to be forced to leave our home state because of regressive policies like stagnating minimum wages, inability to get treated for certain health conditions, and lack of accessible social safety nets (along with others).
If it’s not worth navigating or literal thousands to someone, then I think it’s fair for them to stay and continue to work for whatever wage they earn. This isn’t an argument specific to this current situation, it’s a general risk/reward analysis
that seems like the logic a slave owner would have lmao
like 'if u cant afford to get out and u cant find somewhere to pay u a fair rate, then its a good thing u can continue to work for the pittance u earn from me! once u get some money, then u can leave. but, uk, u got no money. and im only giving u pennies on the dollar. s o.'
like debt servitude is alive and well throughout the globe- and this type of attitude furthers it fr lmao.
My logic is a kin to owning another human being and whipping them to work faster and pay them beans? Man, that is an incredible connection, but it really does land with no weight since everyone is a nazi homophobe. I was presented with two barriers; the cost of the move and a new environment. Both seem incredibly short-sighted. If an employer offered me double the salary, but in a new state, I take it without asking. In fact people do this alllllll the time. Not to sound elitist, but if you’re making federal minimum wage and the next state over is offering double for what you already do, I’m doing whatever I can to make that happen since there’s really no risk.
your logic is that, for some reason, if there isnt anyone providing a living wage around, you should continue to go w the suboptimal wage.
uk, instead of something intelligent like, if all people were paid a wage that allowed them food and shelter, theyd be incentivized to stay at whatever job needs them.
You had to have misunderstood me. It’s the opposite. But people are free to make their own decisions, then that idea was called being a slave owner. In multiple comments, I said to move to where the high wage is and that idea is up and down the socioeconomic scale
how do u move to an area when u cannot afford to move to said area? when u are restricted by ur small wages?
Bc it’s short-sighted thinking. “I can’t afford to move for more money that will greatly benefit me in the long run.” Put the cost of the U-Haul on a credit card or take a small loan. People act like moving is an impossible. Literally millions of people do it every month.
Jobs like fast food or retail were never meant to be full-time careers. If you expect to have a job like that and make $50,000 a year you’re delirious. It’s designed for teens stilll in school, retirees, etc. I’m not saying going to college is for everyone either…there are barriers to that whether it be low intelligence or not being able to afford it but fuck learn a skill like a mechanic or something where you can actually make good money without acquiring a bunch of debt to get there.
Jesus is it that hard to add thd other two letters (“y” and “o”) to your “u”. This looks like a text my 13 year old niece would send me not an economic counterpoint.
uk that language evolves over time. and, as the internet has grown in size, colloquial text has gained dominance. we see this in the rise of emojis, memes, and, yes, even using things like u. utilizing language in such a manner, while it looks ridiculous to others, is just as valid as writing essays w full grammar and punctuation.
but w/e, ur the one pressed, replying to me three times at 2am. so idk if ur ideals are the right thing to be following lmao.
So because I’m up late my ideals are messed yp? Are you stupid? Especially as you are awake as well??? Do you see any emojis in Reddit? I had to respond 3 times because you made completely nonsensical statements in 3 different comments. As for the meme and emoji argument, tell me you’re under 18 without telling me you’re under 18 haha. And no, the vast, vast majority of people talking online who are grown ups don’t use the word “u” like they are texting a friend about a sleepover.
Lmao
What’s funny is how unwilling for fully believing they’re in a situation they cannot get out of. I think is why most people are in the situation they’re in, no faith in one’s self because it’s somehow someone else’s responsibility to provide the life you want to live. Thinking a 9% raise is going to help is also hilarious. It’s all a shit sandwich, but counting on other instead of yourself, it was sad a few years ago, but now it’s just funny
LMAO
$15/hr LMAO
Keep going, dude. This is funny. Going through life being loudly incorrect never gets old.
“I’m sittin down here by the campfire light with the ghost of Ayn Rand.”?
I don’t agree with what this guys saying but you only responding with LMAO and LOL is not really countering his argument.
It is funny dude
If the U.S. federal minimum wage had kept pace with the cost of living and productivity over the last 50 years, it would be approximately $26–$28 per hour today.
If adjusted for inflation only, it would be closer to $13–$14 per hour.
The large gap between those figures is the core of the debate.
The bottom line is that everyone should be making more money. I feel like this is a tale as old as time… The people with the very most, try to convince the people with less than them, that the real problem are the people with the least…”don’t look up, that which trickles down is mana from heaven and not in fact piss..”
The issue is the wealth vampires at the top, not anyone living paycheck to paycheck!
No war but the class war.
Yeah how’s that going?
Bad.
Don’t let them hear this or they’ll call you a “communist” lmao
This issue is the majority of Americans unwilling to pay a premium for goods or services when they can get it for less elsewhere.
If all else is equal (and we know it isn’t but for easy apples to apples comparison)
Company A makes a widget. - material costs $10 per widget - labor cost $15/hour and a worker can make 1 widget an hour - raw cost of widget is now $25 - not counting overhead (manufacturing facilities, accounting, taxes, marketing, IT, administrative and executive pay, etc)
Company B makes the same widget - same material costs $10 per widget - labor cost $10/hour and a worker can make 1 widget an hour - raw cost of widget is now $20 - assuming same overhead
On the shelf at the store - Company A’s widget is for sale at $50 (that means it’s maybe wholesale cost to retailer at $35, retailer marks it up $15 to $50) - Company B’s widget is for sale at $45 (that means it’s maybe wholesale cost to retailer at $30, retailers marks it up $15 to $45)
In both cases the manufacturer and the retailer make the same $, $10 and $15 per widget (but a lower margin which is how products are evaluated but that’s a different conversation)
If all else is equal, which product will sell the most?
In the overall market, all else equal, we buy the least expensive widget to satisfy the need. Meaning the company paying a premium wage is at a significant disadvantage, and would have to find somewhere to reduce expenses to compete with one paying the lower wage.
Should Suzy in accounting get a lower salary to offset the higher pay for the worker? Maybe the CEO should take a pay cut? However - free market - that may open the company up to losing that talent they need to operate as other companies will pay them more. So then they have less efficiency (due to having to hire lower cost and this was experienced labor) and costs go up from that - and that happens across the pay spectrum.
Do I think a CEO making 10s of millions is a true reflection of their skills, not usually, but it is a reflection of their market worth - meaning if they are paid X it’s because they can get X on the open market at another employer.
The minimum wage is a trap. It is an artificial floor in the labor market created for political reasons because in a true free market economy we, the buying public, by and large will spend as little as we can which means we are completely ok with not paying a fair wage if it means we can get a $5 tshirt from temu, etc.
And what most don’t seem to comprehend is simply raising the minimum wage - it’s not magically more money, it’s part of a cycle where things cost more to produce and thus prices will increase to offset.
And for the record before I get flamed for being a pro business anti worker greedy whatever…. I’m a small business owner. I work hard to make sure we can pay our employees well, provide them benefits they couldn’t get at other similar employers. 1 because it matters to me that they are ok. 2 because it is self service and creates loyalty and longevity. That said, there are many things out of my control - health insurance costs went up 50-75% this year, g/l costs and property insurance has been steadily increasing, material and supply costs continue to rise - and all small businesses I know struggle to increase prices in a way that doesn’t turn away their clients while trying to maintain profitability so we can continue to take care of and make payroll every two weeks. There have been plenty of time I, as the owner, and not gotten paid so we could make sure everyone else was taken care of
Isn't your example a perfect argument in favor of a minimum wage increase? A minimum wage increase to $15 means company B has to compete at the same level as company A, and can't simply beat out their competition by paying workers less. Isn't that the entire point of government regulation, putting guard rails around companies to keep them from acting outside of the interest of the general population?
Your assumption is that either is paying minimum wage to start with.
My point is regardless of what the law requires it doesn’t put more money in the pockets of the low wage earners - it simply, long term, forces the cost of those low price goods do the low income earner pays more for what the buy.
It’s not like it’s worked to long term to keep people in a living wage space. Prices go up to eat up the increase and people are left where they started more or less.
The issue is expecting or relying on a low skill job to afford the ability to live comfortably on your own.
There are so many more factors influencing purchases that you left out. Quality, convenience, timely quantity, long term and bulk discounts, business relationships and, gasp, even a bit of morality. All things are never equal.
Success to you in the new year!
Yep. Like I said - all things equal for an apple to apple comparison.
You’re absolutely right. There are 5 million factors that go into each pricing and purchase decision.
Way to take a positive post and make it negative
Lol you can't be serious
Minimum wage is net negative since a few decades ago. Everyone loves a raise, but you're mistaken if you think this minimum wage increase is going to relieve enough stress for anyone affected to call it "a positive."
It's expensive to be affluent, but it's disproportionately expensive to be poor. The raise sounds good on the surface, but without significant legal infrastructure changes, the wage disparity balloon continues to push the limits of its structural integrity.
Of course it’s a positive! Not a life-changing one but a positive still. Explain to me how having more money in your check each week/month is a negative…
You gotta look past the trees to see the forest, neighbor. Decades of data show wages haven't kept pace with productivity, inflation, and utility pricing.
The feel-good of a bump in pay is a temporary positive.
Then you realize, if you haven't made double-digit cost-of-living "raises" each of the last 5 years? You've lost significant buying power, even though your income is a bigger number than ever...
The reality of today's minimum wage is a net negative.
Yeah but that’s not what you said. I of course agree with the very basic and correct proposition that wages have not kept pace with inflation and certainly not the increases in housing costs or the costs of a higher education. But you said that no one could call the minimum wage increase a positive. I bet a lot of minimum wage workers would disagree with you. Is it a sufficient increase? Definitely not but still a positive.
Difference of today vs next year.
Good today. Feels good. But long term it is a net negative
Ok then definitely keep bitching and complaining about it instead of celebrating the small wins
I remember making five dollars an hour. It was so difficult to live. I'm glad this is happening but it should be higher.
Try $3.35… and then the deductions… made me want to be a criminal instead.
Not an accident.
To the bone!
Just wait till it’s repealed by the state legislature /s
Don't think they haven't been trying.
Why the /s sarcasm?
They will repeal it
Over here hoping that some other companies see this as a nudge to move other salaries higher so they can get further away from minimum wage.
So glad it's finally going up! $7.25 is crazy. Everyone deserves a living wage and the ability to save.
It’s INSANE in 2025 it’s just now $15
Those dang progressive/liberal voters and their wish for betterment for the working class. Always stymying the will of the GOP.
It'll simply be passed onto customers in pricing. I.e. you and I.
I don't know if you've noticed but prices have gone up without a raise in minimum wage already. So that line of thinking is pointless and stupid.
Right!!! Omg that old talking point is ridiculous.
Minimum wage has gone up, every year since 2016.
Good point… fuck others because it effects you. Maybe we should be demanding change across the board instead and be glad that chronically underpaid people are getting marginally more.
All evidence to the contrary.
Good. Increase it to $30/hour min wage next. I'd gladly pay more if it means decreasing the gap between the rich and the poor
A doubling of the minimum wage would absolutely skyrocket the cost of everyday goods. It wouldbt be a “I’d gladly pay a few more dollars a week to help the poor.” It would break many families.
Ideally all that stuff "should" balance out, yet we've seen how it doesn't. Makes me wonder where the starting point of inflation is, and fix it there... Or maybe it's a hydra at this point, and it will just grow two more heads for the one we cut off.
Guess you've never seen the Big Mac costs vs wage memes, huh?
And when they do these people are gonna surprise pikachu about it
Guess the companies will have to adjust seeing as their product will be selling less!
Crazy to blame the consumers when products are being over priced for shareholders.
This outlaws work for people who can’t find jobs at the current minimum wage. Those that aren’t qualified. The ultimate minimum wage is $0. Compassionate.
Are you stupid? I am asking because your answer will inform us all.
It’s ok, you just haven’t thought it through.
If you were unable to find a job for $15 would you take one for $13.75? Well now you can’t.
Why do you need the government to negotiate your wages for you, are you stupid?
Thank you for clearing that up for everyone. Happy Holidays!!
The government didn’t negotiate shit here. The people did, quite literally.
"If you're unemployed, you don't make money!"
Did you miss the part that if they can't get a job at the current minimum that it doesn't matter the pay, those people will be without jobs no matter the wage rate.
We aren't talking about those people as they are not in the job market and not relevant to any wages.
Good point, why are we stopping at $15? Why not $20 or $50?
Per FDR, maybe you heard of him, the Minimum Wage was intended to be a living wage.
Do you own a business that cannot exist without exploiting the working class or are you exploited?
Neither. I own a business that can exist without exploiting the working class. I only have two employees both part-time but I pay them $25 an hour. And we live in a LCOL area.
The truest minimum wage of all is $0. If one can’t find work for a multitude of reasons they make nothing. With a higher floor on minimum wage jobs that provide value at a lower rate are illegal.
Man. I'm sorry for asking you questions that are so far above your head.
Go tell your mommy I said you're a good boy.
Not so curious, are ya?
Shocker.
You cannot answer a question. Is it due to your intellect or are you avoiding being exposed?
We both know you won't answer this either.
Naw man, your ken is way too high. It’s really something special you’ve got going for yourself.
Exceedingly so, but, not with someone who cannot have a conversation.
If I ask you a question, I expect an answer before you ask me a question.
Folks like you are below my ken and not worth my time, because you cannot understand anything other than what Napoleon told you.
Four legs good! Two legs Bad!
Wait, we remembered wrong.....
Four legs good! Two legs BETTER!!!
You ever read any Orwell?
That's exactly right
Let’s get an initiative together and push for a $100 minimum wage.
No low balling. $350 minimum! That's like shity lawyer rate. Or doctor with a mail order degree.
I hope this was sarcasm. Yes let’s completely collapse the economic system and pay someone $100 an hour for a job requiring no skills or education like flipping burgers or mopping floors.
$7.50/hr. Please tell me again that an immigrant is taking my cookie
I really hope this actually happens because we have had voter approved initiatives before and Missouri Congress is just like "yeah I don't care what the people say. We're not gonna do that"
How many folks on the MO side of the metro are minimum wage hourly employees?
Genuinely curious if anyone has stats on hand, or at least some from the last 2-3 years.
Seemed like a lot of places were advertising above min wage help wanted post-COVID. Seems like I still see a decent amount of those signs. I’d have to imagine that means places would start a few bucks above minimum?
Either way, this is good. Hopefully will alleviate some headache and pain for those who’ll get that bump.
Virtually every publicly traded corporation that targets the poverty class. Family Dollar. Dollar General. Save a Lot. CVS. Walgreens. So on and so forth. And the ones that don't on paper? You simply don't get full-time so benefits don't kick in.
I knew that last part. Seemed like I really noticed that after Obamacare passed.
This is totally anecdotal, but why does it seem like those Dollar stores are always staffed but so many things (that advertise higher starting pay) always seem to be short? Not that you know, just wondering out loud.
Because those types of stores are have naturally extremely high turnover because they're some of the worst jobs one can get that isn't manual labor. You deal with shitty corporate, shitty hours, overwhelming do this do that do more, without support. And on top of it, work conditions are bad, the customers are bottom barrel, you deal with robberies, nonstop theft, fights, unmedicated/ill homeless. So on and so forth. And with inflation, when they advertise jobs starting at $15, that $15 without benefits until 6 months in, isn't really worth it. And corporate culture doesn't care about employees lasting. They benefit from the churn so they don't need to give benefits or raises.
Yea, until Jeff City repeals it
They cannot, it’s in the constitution and it’s been the law for a few years now. The sick leave was a state statute and not a constitutional amendment
It really feels like that doesn’t mean the same thing to them as it does to you and me
Luckily we have a pretty centrist state Supreme Court
It will be interesting to see what Walmarts in the area do.
They actually had a starting wage of $17 right after Covid, but then dropped it down to $15
I thought that was repealed by the MoLeg, no?
No, that was sick leave. This was a constitutional amendment
I'm sorry. I really can't keep up with how many things we do that get repealed by the Republicans.
The amendments don’t. That’s why they are trying to make it harder for the people to amend the state constitution.
oh yay
Oooooh pinch me -I’m dreaming.
I read that retail employers are exempt if the company so chooses, is that true?
Only if their revenue is less than $500,000
Yearly?
Yes
Remember how the proposition we voted for tracked minimum wage to inflation after 2026? Remember how Republicans passed a bill to repeal that provision?
This can’t be repealed with a bill. It has to be a vote of the people to amend the constitution
https://www.polsinelli.com/polsinelli-at-work/missouris-repeal-of-paid-sick-leave-and-portions-of-minimum-wage-whats-next-for-proposition-a
Well tell that to the Republicans in Missouri because they already repealed minimum wage being tied to inflation
Surprised the state hasn't overturned our votes on this one too. Bastards.
Bad news for Roger's Produce
Percentages are dumb. Give me real numbers, because they are always less.
Yeah. Not sure why they wrote it that way. The min wage is becoming $15 an hour.
It’s all mostly arbitrary numbers
what
Minimum wage is an arbitrary number. It’ll make companies pay more to their employees which will make them raise prices on their product and pass that cost onto the consumer. Or they will cut the number of employees they have and run with less workers and going with automated kiosks or just running with lower quality of service they provide.
It’s arbitrary because where does it stop? Soon $15/hr wont be enough to live on, so will $25/hr be enough? $50/hr?
oh god this line of thinking again... if raising the wage causes such disaster why are the states with the highest minimum wages often among the fastest growing economies in the country?
If it does so great for economies, it’s a wonder why every state doesn’t simply pay $100/hr minimum wage
I guess thats a fair point 🤷 if we assume the goal is just "more money" but economics is about finding the right balance. Economists look for the sweet spot where workers earn enough to cover basic needs (rent, food, heat) without exceeding what the business can reasonably afford. Research shows that in most of the US that number is currently between $15 and 25 depending on the local cost of living.
Cause they're not
So prices are going up.... cool..
As opposed to before when prices were going down
When did they stop? Should wages stagnate?
Where have you been the rest of the year?
As opposed to those oh so low prices now!
They’re going up anyways… lower wages just mean people can continually buy less things… including groceries.
God youre all ridiculous. High unskilled wages make skilled wages worth less. Think you electricians will be happy working in next snow storm when their pay will hold less value?
When companies have less customers, do you think they will just ignore it? They will adjust as well because making $0 from someone who chooses to not buy is worth less than lowering the price....
For some reason people like you dont realize that without consumers, the stores cannot function.
So when the unskilled labor wages force prices up customers will just not buy anything.... people like me understand that. Many companies cant "adjust" they will close. Higher labor costs drive business out
People like you dont seem to understand inflation has kept growing and wages havent.
This isnt a raise, its just to keep up.
Going by the numbers, minimum wage should be over $20.
https://cepr.net/publications/correction-this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/
The issue is we went from millionaires to billionaires and they scapegoated the poor.
People like you just ate their propaganda.
Electricians joy in snow storms is not tied to minimum wage. How many electricians work in snow storms? Do you mean linemen? They already aren’t happy working in snow storms. Most people aren’t happy working in snowstorms.
Minimum wage goes up value of the dollar goes down. Skilled labor will leave and take less stress work. And we lose high skill jobs over seas.... Let the market control wages. Everyone wins. Government gets involved we all lose.
The idea of high skill jobs going overseas is interesting. To use your example of the electrician, it'd be awful inconvenient if Mandeep had to fly all the way over from India just to update my electrical box.
I'm not convinced that skilled jobs that require folks to be local to an area to do the necessary and practical work, are suddenly going to flee overseas. Though if the did for some weird reason, that would be an interesting way for a society to collapse, similar to old coal or metal town when the resources ran dry.
If the market is left to its own devices the poor get ground down to nothing. There are numerous studies that show minimum wage increases have a minimal effect on inflation increases. In fact, lower income workers tend to spend more of their money… giving them more in wages just moves that back into the economy. We’ve let the market control wages… it led to worker exploitation, unsafe environments, income inequality. It just leads to companies paying as little as possible to get unskilled jobs completed. So people who need the money have no negotiation power, so they don’t get negotiated up, they get negotiated lower between what worker is willing to work for the least.
Post the studies
You are an absolute dumbfuck.
Have you been looking around for the past 5 years? Prices already went up. A lot.
The only thing this bill does is kind of help poor people be a little bit less poor. Missouri will always be a backwards shithole state with people like you voting in it.
A $15.00 minimum wage isn’t even high anymore, even compared to relative states. Accounting for inflation, back in the day it was much higher. It’s also good for St Louis’s economy. If I live in STL and want to work a minimum wage job, why the fuck would I work in Missouri when Illinois pays more? You gotta think about Missouri in the context of the entire US man. This bill will help keep jobs in Missouri.
Look at his profile. Magat and men’s rights incel. This take tracks
Dude had to squeeze a 1776 in that generic username. 😂
This take would be hilarious if it weren’t so damn insane.
You cant even get insults right.
mA bUrGeR WiLL cOsT mOaH
Yup. 1 more reason not to go out...
Nope, but I'm gonna be making a bit more money so that I'm less likely to be homeless!
Your landlord just saw this. Your rent is going up.
wage increases don't really get outpaced by price increases like that, this is a net positive
Prices have increased so much already that the people impacted by this literally can't survive without government assistance. You pay either way, let workers have some dignity.
Customers will pay the increased wages not the businesses.
I'd rather pay more for a product because the employee is getting paid more than a fat cat making money hand over fist.
That makes no sense because now products will cost more and the min wage employee won’t be able to afford things again. It’s a vicious cycle.
It’s a mostly free market. If the companies raise prices, demand does down and prices drop until it reaches a balance. If demand doesn’t drop, a competitor will find a way to gain market share by providing a similar good or service at a lower price point.
New constraints like a higher minimum wage or other regulations force companies to adapt and bring innovation.
You’d think. But that’s not what happens.
Seems like part of the problem.
abolishminimumwage
Not happy with how much money you have?? 3 ways to put more money in your pocket... Lower taxes Reduce inflation Get a better job The magic number per hour won't matter until the government stops stealing our value from our labor.
We wont agree on the perfect fix but if we can get taxes and inflation lower or better removed we will all be better off
Yeah lower taxes has famously been the solution to solving poverty
Show me a time of high poverty and low taxes??
Dude you live in Missouri…look around
I see people taxed more and more every year so.... what are you getting at
Ok so you’re just lying for attention then, that’s cool
When has missouri lowered taxes?