I am in just total disbelief in some of the arguments I've heard from sovereign citizens. I want to see it for myself. Where are the sovern citizen forums where people talk about all of the traffic tickets they avoided by playing word games with the cops?
Where all the loonies hang out. Facebook.
There's a lot on YouTube too.
They also have a lot of Telegram groups.
Mostly found in America.
And troofsocial?
“Bring your own crayons.”
I watch the traffic stops and courtroom videos and I am convinced that these people have mental health disorders.
When people get desperate the search for solutions to their problems online. They find the sovcit movement that tells them they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Everyone likes to hear that they are right. That their problems are not real.
"Lots of people want to be Galileo. They just need to cast someone in the role of the Pope."
Search out “secured party creditors” on FB. That’s a pretty active community of nutjobs.
Leaded gasoline and the population bubble
I've seen plenty of post-leaded people pulling this nonsense. I think it really kicked off at the point where ignorance was no longer a source of shame
I don't know which ones are the worst, Flat earthers or Sovereign citizens.
Venn diagram wise, don't you think there's significant overlap here?
One of the more striking things about 'Flat Earthers' is how angry they are. These are people whose only rough points of agreement are:
The earth is not a sphere (or anything like one). Past this basic rejection of reality, they bitterly disagree about what the alternative is.
They are incredibly angry, basically vindictive people. Culturally, there is just something about flat-earth thinking that results in what I'd call "spleen."
(Usually: A particular super zoom compact camera -- the magic model changes over time! -- can prove the whole hoax through direct investigation! This one gives me such a smile. But it's true.)
A decent way to witness #2 is through the old, now-defunct podcast "Oh No, Ross and Carrie." They did a whole series in which they actively joined flat-earth proponents in various "experiments" and "investigations." The results are hilarious, but also disturbing. Flat earther people have a mean, mean streak.
I had never heard of sovereign citizens until I came across them on Tik Tok. I quickly became addicted. Some people just hate authority and they are dumb enough to think this will get them around it.
Some sort of extraterrestrial egg, I'd wager.
Go to any post with a lot of comments on this sub and sort by controversial
Ya is there a site I can go to?
Google “Quantum Grammar” on YouTube
Here’s a comprehensive overview of their arguments from a Canadian Judge, who also references worldwide phenomena, incl. Canadian Sovcits citing US Constitution, US ones citing Magna Carta.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
There's an ancient PDF from 1999 that lays out a couple of hundred arguments with case law citations, called "Idiot Legal Arguments"
The link I've got doesn't preserve all the internal hypertext links but is still interesting to look at. It's not in any kind of narrative format -- it's a casebook intended for attorneys to reference different arguments that have been used and been shot down.
The original author once had plans (ca. 2008 or so) to update it, but the amount of work that would take is just brain-meltingly exhausting.
And this is what it looked like twenty-six years ago.
https://studylib.net/doc/8454646/idiot-legal-arguments
Some text, just grabbed at random, about claming not to be a US citizen on IRS forms. Reddit borked the formatting but I'm not going to go through and clean it up.
Renouncing or denying US citizenship: US v. G reenstreet (ND Tex 1996) 912 F.Supp 224; Barcroft v.
CIR (1/2/97) TC Memo 1997
5 app.dismissed (5th Cir unpub 12/17/97) 134 F3d 369(t), 81 AFTR2d 453, 98 USTC para 50157; US v. Sloan (7th Cir 1991) 939 F2d 499 cert.den 502 US 1060; Greenstreet v. Heiskell
(Tex.App 1997) 940 SW2d 831 reh.den 960 SW2d 713; Dunham v. CIR (2/9/98) TC Memo 1998
52 ("Petitioner reported that he was not a US citizen. ... that he was 'a domiciled inhabitant of an American State' 7 and that his 'tax home was within an American Union S
tate'."
misuse of the IRS form 1040NR penalized as fraud); Onkka v. Herman (D Neb unpub 9/19/97 & 10/17/97) 80 AFTR2d 6860; Kish v. CIR (1/13/98) TC
Memo 1998
16; LaRue v. US (7th Cir unpub 9/8/97) 124 F3d 20AA4(t), 97 USTC para 50703, 80 AFTR2d 6275 ce rt.den 523 US 1096; Shrock v. US (7th Cir unpub 7/22/96) 92 F3d 1187(t), 78 AFTR2d 5792; McKeague v. The Corporate United States Govt of Washington DC (D. Haw unpub 10/9/97) 97 USTC para 50866; US v. Nichols (WD Okl 1995) 897 F.Supp 542 (Terry L. Nichols, an Oklahoma City bombing conspirator, "disclaimed US and Michigan citizenship and has declared himself in writing to be 'Foreign' and a
'Non
Resident Alien'."
He evidently had also done this in an attempt to evade his child support responsibilities, cf. M. France, Homegrown Scholars Treat Framers' Work as a Bible , National Law Jrnl, 26 June 1995; a 1992 letter and a 1994 affidavit by Nicholds to this effect can be found on the internet); ("We have held before that this belief is simply wrong.") US v. Ro ss (7th Cir unpub 4/13/95) 52 F3d 329(t); (using
this ploy in a drug prosecution, evidently thinking that non
citizens can smuggle and sell narcotics with impunity) US v. Norris (4th Cir unpub 2/20/98) 135 F3d 771(t); denied being "a person" and therefore not subject to taxation. M.J. Olson v. US (Fed Claims unpub 8/26/98) 82 AFTR2d 6174; K.L. Anderson v. CIR
(7/8/98) TC Memo 1998
253; Dorris v. CIR (9th Cir unpub 4/29/96) 89 F3d 845(t), 77 AFTR2d 2084, 96 USTC para 50306; (ditto, evidently by a forced m isreading of "person" in 26 USC secs. 7203 & 7343) US v.
R.J. McDonald (9th Cir unpub 10/4/90) 919 F2d 146(t) cert.den 499 US 928; US v. Rhodes (MD Penn 1996) 921 F.Supp 261 aff'd (3d Cir 1996) 101 F3d 693(t) & (3d Cir 1997) 107 F3d 9(t); ("being of Fre eman Character", domiciled in "Kansas territory in Stafford County" which is, however, "foreign to County of Stafford" and trying to sue "foreign defendants" such as the Stafford County sheriff, county attorney, county judge, et al., asking the court in Ka nsas to exercise admiralty jurisdiction) Snyder v. District Court of
Stafford County (D Kan unpub 4/8/96) aff'd 98 F3d 1350(t); ("a natural being, non
resident and alien to the corporate govt United States, State of Michigan, and any and all corporate po litical subdivisions", sued to block application of car registration laws) J.M. Anderson v. State of Michigan (WD Mich unpub 3/18/93);
)c;ao,ed tp ne "not a citizen of the US" and thereby exempt from taxes, "As proof of his non
resident alien status, he at taches affidavits stating that he was born in Texas and maintains his domicile in Wyoming." M.H. Cotton v. US (10th Cir unpub 10/14/94) 39 F3d 1191(t),
Government is a religion of violence and slavery. If you do not think governments are criminal organizations, you are delusional. If you believe that they have authority, you are delusional. I am not a citizen and I never was. A citizen is a subject (slave). You can't be a citizen and be sovereign at the same time. Governments are terrorist organizations. You are one of the mentally ill people.
Found one
Yea, sorry I am not delusional. Oh no, please don't call me names 😅😅
If you were born into the system of one of these terrible scary terrorist governments, why do you assume there's a magic word you can say that gets you out of it? Didn't work very well for chattel slaves
What the hell are you talking about? Did I say ere is a magic word them from them being criminal bastards? Also, I never said they were scary. You did. I am not scared of them at all.
So you call them "terrorists," but aren't scared of them? I'm not sure you understand how language works.
The fact that they are terrorists doesn't mean I have to be personally scared of them, or that every single person has to be scared of them. If one person isn't scared of them, does that means they are not terrorists? Obviously not. They operate by threatening people with violence and coercion to achieve political agendas, which means they are terrorists. Nothing in the definition of the word terrorist says every person on planet earth must be scared of terrorists, otherwise they aren't terrorists. You are the one who doesn't understand the meaning of the word terrorist, not me.
You're off your rocker.
So I must believe that "governments" have authority over myself and the entire population, otherwise I am insane? This isn't like I am claiming that the sky is green. I have no reason to think any government has any authority at all. And the fact that other people erroneously think they do doesn't mean I am wrong. But bro I promise they do, voting and stuff, lol
The government has the authority given to them by the masses. As you are a fringe outlier, the masses determined that the government has authority over you. You can try and deny it as much as you want, but that doesn't make the authority they have disappear.
"Lol, all those foolish sheeple buying into the delusions that the so-called 'government' has any authority over anything. What a bunch of fools, I am the only sane person here." - Me, from a jail cell which I was put into by people with no authority
You misunderstand “slavery”. Edit, sorry, realised that I can’t use the word “understand” either.