I think the line between SCs and those who are legitimately insane is blurry in the best of times.
However, this subreddit is not intended to attack people who appear to be genuinely insane.
This is about sovereign citizenship. Not mental health.
Thanks.
We can just flat out say this is about David Morsilli, right?
[removed]
It’s really sad. You read and laugh and individually everything is funny, and then you see the scope of everything he’s struggling with and just feel terrible for the guy. The ones we laugh at are stupidity by choice, he clearly has no choice in the matter.
Dang. I thought you were just being hyperbolic, but if true: Yes. Yes, he really was helping the world over and over.
I don’t know him,how was he?
I feel sympathy for him. I don't know what his mental state was like when he was younger, but losing a brother to a drunk driver couldn't have helped it.
I truly hope he gets the help he needs.
I read an article about something like the 40th anniversary of his brother's death. His parents did not come off sounding good.
They're apparently well off enough that they had an entire tennis building with courts built in Todd's name. Then repeatedly dragged David and his sister there to play tennis.
Do not spread false information, sorry if you misread. A public tennis court was named in honor of Todd and what had happened. The parents did not “build” a tennis facility.
Delighting in that guy's progression into paranoid psychosis is admittedly pretty grim.
Not really delighting so much as a morbid fascination frankly, it's interesting to watch a man lose all contact with the reality the rest of us are stuck in.
👍🏾
Well there was that one video of the vet who was homeless and likely on drugs as well. He used some.of the words, but that was pretty clearly mental health issues as well.
Morselli and possibly Angela Christensen
Is that the same Angela that was arrested recently for being drunk in public and couldn't keep her dentures in?
Yup
I woman Angela. Love her! Was she hookin' in South Florida when she got arrested and doesn't cosent to either authoritah or denture adhesive? I would love to hear the whole story on that nonsense.
The guy that invited her down to stay in the hotel seemed very suspect and appears he was trying to hard to not reveal the real reason she was there.
I got hooke don I Woman Angela from Law Talk with Mike and Van Ballion.
Update: he has made his way to this sub, or at least, someone claiming to be him has.
Uh. Being a SovCit requires at least a severe personality disorder so I'm not sure how that can work.
That’s a gray line the size of Texas with some of the overlap. But I definitely agree. No fun making jokes at the expense of some poor homeless dude with a bad brain when there’s cars driving around with sharpie drawn license plates.
It's the same picture...
"corporate wants you to tell the difference" meme reaction
You raise a rather accurate point
Mainly I think the big factor is David Morsilli. He's clearly mentally ill.
Is this the right place to share my court audio
https://youtu.be/9ThDSqvtgaU?si=JmBvHbZdjKjiUtjA
… so all of them?
I think if you see posts about the same folks once or twice it's one thing. It can be difficult to tell when someone is having mental issues until there are a couple of posts about them. It's obvious David is in a mental spiral, but if we didn't see a couple of posts and have background, who would know?
Well, I had no idea until I googled his name and found out more.
Right. There were a number of posts and talk about his Facebook page. There's no way to tell about folks until there are several posts and info. I feel bad for the guy and just want him to be happy and enjoy his life. Not sure if that's where he is right now, based on his writing.
I completely agree.
This rule would be too tough to enforce fairly. What would be the indication of "serious mental illness"?
The litmus should be if the context of their argument is rooted in SovCit themes, it should be allowed.
For ex: If it's someone manic claiming to be the Queen of France, yeah that's just psychosis. Absolutely does not belong here. But if someone starts rambling about UCC and Admiralty law, who happens to be experiencing some kind of mania, surely that stays?
Serious question, where does the woman claiming to be the Queen of Canada fall? I don't think she has a mental disorder, but I'm just some rando.
SovCits are, as with all conspiracy theories, a shared paranoid delusion. That is why implementing this new rule is so difficult.
The problem is that conspiracies alone do not rise to the level of a medical diagnosis. A paranoid delusion is different than experiencing a full-blown psychosis that removes you from reality. Of course, there are degrees, and you can still catch a diagnosis if your beliefs negatively impact your daily functioning.
For instance, if believing she is Queen of Canada is just something she does while maintaining social relationships, shows up to work, can buy clothes and housing, then she probably will not get diagnosed.
But the second she inevitably starts pooping in jars and labeling it with the date and the contents of her last meal, then she enters the gray area.
That last paragraph was something else.
Is the last there a reference to Howard Hughes? If so, you forgot wearing kleenex boxes as slippers, I believe.
I thought he had jars full of fingernails, too.
You mean everyone doesn't do that? I mean... it's totally normal, right??? Um... asking for a friend...
You are not a psychiatrist or other allied mental health professional, right? Because delusions about being the Queen are diagnosable even if she manages to function in daily living tasks.
Good example. Most people would think she has to be mentally ill, but her antics are just as easily explained by low moral standards and greed. Sanctioning someone for posting video about such a prominent sovcit would be counter productive.
Off to r/schizoposters I guess
Ask him to draw a cat
This is such an unenforceable rule and it's ripe for abuse by people acting in bad faith. Make a better rule because this one ain't it
Yeah, this sounds like a "I know it when I see it" kind of yardstick to judge when a post is OK or not OK.
Cults used to have a whole process for making followers mentally unstable involving such elements as lack of sleep, drastic dietary changes, and repetitive tasks. On the internet, in the age of stochastic terrorism, it is more efficient to proselytize to those who are already off-kilter.
I doubt there can be consensus about why an individual engages in this behavior, but we can get a better picture of the movement and its effects by focusing on those who are gaining money and/or power: those leading the "legal" seminars, the people selling the fake licenses and documents, the social media personalities who glean a following by parroting this crap.
Chili de Castro had his delete lawz channel shut down. Your comment made me smile about that :)
“It’s about SovCits, not about mental health.”
It’s not such a blurry line when both of those individuals are on the same side…
Obviously difficult to differentiate in some cases... but not in all cases
Sometimes the pendulum swings too far. It used to be that somebody like this could be forcibly taken off the street and treated against their will, at the expense of the state. That’s pretty horrible in some instances. But now, until he hurts somebody or gets hurt himself, there is nothing any of us can do, but stand back and watch. It seems very likely that he is going to hurt himself or get hurt, or harm others. I am by no means wealthy, but I would gladly toss in 100 bucks or so towards some kind of treatment, if there was a way, but there doesn’t seem to be. “Don’t poke the bear” is always a good rule to live by, but somebody is going to poke that bear on the wrong day and we will be seeing it on the news.
Like the recent video which was posted about the homeless lady who was trying to set other homeless people on fire. She used a small bit of sovcit talk but it was obvious that she was suffering from a mental break more than she believed in sovcit nonsense. But yeah, good thing they took her into custody and hopefully will get her some help since she was a danger to others.
David's been to a mental institution at least once. But they can't force him to take any medicine. He might not hurt anyone, as he doesn't appear to be physically attacking anyone.
I mean, falling for the whole SovCit thing is absolutely the sign of an unhealthy mind. Literally all of them are experience a fundamental break with reality.
If we did that would we have anything to post here? Who are these mentally stable sovcits?
True sovcits are willfully stupid by choice and clearly out to avoid their responsibilities.
People who clearly have severe mental health issues don’t deserve to be made fun of. They need help, not derision.
Are we expected to make a diagnosis? A good case could be made for every single SovCit, and then we wouldn’t have anyone to make fun of.
Definitely a blurry line, if there is one.
How about we just ban those posts, then?
Isn't that all of them though?
Attack the behavior not the person.
While you're feeling nice and smug about how dumb they are being remember these people are more often than not mentally ill and being deceived.
Most of them do not qualify as mentally ill, most of them are desperate people who have been sold pseudo-law by grifters taking advantage of their desperation. Some combine greed with low moral standards, again, not mentally ill, just not good people.
I'm not sure how this rule is going to work. I think most of us would believe Ernie Wayne terTelgte has to be a little bit nuts. But his prominence as a sovcit, one of the first many of us saw, would make it hard to ignore his videos. This rule strikes me as rather vague and difficult to enforce in a fair manner.
There's a qualifier in my response.
More ofthen than not.
There are the people selling the lies and then there are the people buying them.
One might argue that sovereign citizen and mental health issues, are one in the same.
Having dealt with several self-described sovereign citizens, they all seem pretty unhinged.
what mental health issues are typically driving the sovereign citizen movement - ChatGPT
The sovereign citizen movement is a complex phenomenon, and while mental health issues are not the sole or primary cause, they can play a role for some individuals within the movement. Here are a few mental health and psychological factors that might be associated with or contribute to the sovereign citizen movement:
It's important to note that while mental health issues can play a role, the sovereign citizen movement also includes individuals who might not have any identifiable mental health conditions but are drawn to its ideologies for various other reasons, such as political beliefs, personal grievances, or alternative views on governance and law.
Then it will be hard to post anything.
I've met different levels of SC but most of them are insane and this group is all about that so...
Umm, that would render this forum obsolete. They all have some form of serious mental illness.
Who is the person you are talking about
Aww but those are the most fun
The only ones, really.
So, all of them.
So no more posts then?
But isn't the entire sovereign citizen ideology based upon beliefs in which serious mental health issues clearly play a role?
I'm being 100% serious...
One can't possibly believe logically in sovereign citizenship otherwise... It is literally a paranoid delusion... & I'll die on this hill.
According to a lawyer who worked with Justice Rooke on Meads v. Meads, their research showed most sovicts would not qualify as mentally ill. They have extreme beliefs, but that in itself doesn't make someone mentally incompetent. Some act out of greed, many are just desperate and are being exploited by a "guru" who sells them fake law. But dismissing them all as mentally unhinged is not justified.
The ones who truly believe in the Sov Cit ideology are delusional. Obviously I'm not talking about the grifters or the lazy ass people looking to exploit an imaginary loophole in the system. If it wasn't Sov Cit shit, they'd be exploiting some other fringe grift.
I'm only speaking of the true believers in Sov Cit nonsense ideology.
The folks I'm talking about make up a small fraction of the "Sov Cit" online social media presence, which is undoubtedly oversaturated with the grifters and the lazy drop outs looking to get a free ride.
No, the true believer Sov Cits are all mentally unfit to share our society. Without exception.
What a preposterous idea.
Dont care.
Every single one of them has severe mental health so how can anyone post anything?
Thats gotta be every post here.
They often intersect
What about mental health issues for people who also want to be sober citizens
Great, no sovereign citizen posts… 😡
Umm, isn't this all of them?
Thank you
Get your Sovereignty back people
Self-identification as indigenous or tribal shall be regarded as a fundamental criterion for the Nyan-ko-pong Sovereign Maroon Global Tribal Nation Territories as representation/determination for the groups to which the provisions of the United Nations International Labor Organization, Convention169 of Indigenous People apply.
I refuse to believe there are any instances of someone doing this without serious mental health issues.
Can a rule be added that says you can’t suggest reporting SovCits to ICE for deportation? It’s super annoying at this point and comes up so much it’s repetitive.
After watching a bunch of body cams and court cams, I am pretty sure SC is all about exploiting society however you want while taking no responsibility and suffering no consequence. I am delighted to report that after many viewings, the tactic has so far proven utterly ineffective in law enforcement and the courts. You all are not “sovereign” anything. You’re just shitty citizens.
https://youtu.be/J4oBHFkgjbc?si=oqH9YrYUrK3HBoty
Respect.
I'm fairly certain that at least 75% of Sov Cit stories involve a person who is mentally ill. How strenuously do you wish to enforce this edict?
https://youtu.be/9ThDSqvtgaU?si=JmBvHbZdjKjiUtjA
How is that not like, all of them? The only situation I can see a case for is someone who knows it's all nonsense but wants to waste the courts' time.
Not much difference so this "rule" is not feasible.
So no posting?
What do you all know about the sovcit group lead by Gianna Miceli via Inalienable University?
In the news in Australia.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/i-ve-worked-with-so-called-sovereign-citizens-they-all-believe-they-re-special-20250827-p5mq8t.html
Err, that Venn Diagram’s a circle
Sovereign citizen movement is a foreign interference plot right?
Can I share my new YouTube channel please I just started it yesterday I been uploading my old YouTube videos from when I was in court.
https://youtu.be/9ThDSqvtgaU?si=18oxtq7H-_6nJf9R
Let me know what you think. I have tons more content but I was told this is a good place to share it. I’m brand new to Reddit but I been trying all the sovereignty tactics for 15 years been arrested like 70x
I died in November in a car accident and the brain trauma changed my personality and perspective on everything.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will. 666
> I been trying all the sovereignty tactics for 15 years been arrested like 70x
So you're a moron.
This would be a good indication that you should stop.
Then I hope you're getting all the therapy, physical and mental, that you need.