It's not just about it being "hard". If your opponent makes a small mistake and you have time to punish it, you will very rarely have time to step back and get a tipper, which means you will always get a sourspot.
Also if you hit someone with the tipper hitbox and the sour spot hitbox, the sourspot takes priority, unlike Roy whose stronger hitbox takes priority if both hit.
Ikr, the amount of times I get robbed because I go to punish a smash attack that I saw coming from 50 days ago, and the wind back of the character's model makes me miss by a fucking hair... and die for it... So infuriating!
Bingo. Consistency, lack of extremely damaging combos or opportunities that lead to extremely low damage KOs, and their play style being too honest. Great edgeguards for low percent KOs is their optimal play and that doesn't work against a lot of characters cracked recoveries.
Technically if played perfectly, marth would be better
But nobody plays perfectly 100% of the time.
Marth uses the tipper mechanic meaning the tip of the sword does more damage and knock back, whereas Lucina does not have this mechanic, the whole sword does the same attack, which is less effective but more reliable than trying to nail tippers consistently.
true but that also gives him combos and general advantage state that lucina does not have access to, and people always conveniently leave that part out.
I find it funny too because in the Roy vs Chrom comparison people are always quick to bring up Roys sourspot combos as a benefit, even though its really only upair that does it and sometimes fair. Marths sour spot combos/advantage are overall more potent than roys, yet are never mentioned.
Overall marth is still worse than lucina, but i do firmly believe he is not as bad as people claim. The focus on "its impossible to only hit tippers" has people thinking about him the wrong way.
That’s just not true sourspots allow you to combo tippers into other moves at low%, and weak sourspot hits into strong tippers in a way lucina can’t do
That is true, but they’re still there. In theory marth can have a stronger combo game but that fact adds to the problem with Marth in ult being that he’s just not consistently rewarding enough.
Adding onto what everyone else said, it gives marth this particular issue where he either kills his opponent at 50% or 180% and nowhere in between. Lucinas consistent dmg/kb is still balanced to give her kill moves, and the biggest impact is felt in back air. Lucinas back air is a notorious edgeguaring tool that kills fairly early either outright or through gimping. Marths tipper bair might be stronger, but his tipper hitboxes are so difficult and inconsistent to land within the context of the game's engine and movement that 90% of the time youll hit the non-tipper bair and its considerably less threatening. This is felt through every kill option, where if your spacing isnt perfect, youre just not killing.
So yeah, sometimes marth can combo into tipper fsmash at 50% and you get deleted, but no player has made doing these things absolutely consistent and marth sees considerably lower results because of it.
marth main here - it's complicated and multifacted but long story short is that ultimate's new mechanics and speed along with his nerfs he received from smash brawl and smash 4 basically caught up with him.
in 4, he was severely nerfed. however, after the buffs and metagame progression, there was still reliable ways to utilize Marth's tools to land mid-late percent kills and setups.
in ultimate, yes they do exist but thanks to the new engine along with his reduced tipper hitbox (introduced in 4), nabbing kills in the same situation is notably more challenging. spacing is his specific advantage he has to play around and theres way less ways to be precise to do this in ultimate. for this reason more players opt for lucina - shes consistent looking for specific kill setups, no need to get your spacing 100% correct. a lot of her moves "just work" the way you would think they do consistently across the blade at each percentage range. this is not the case with Marth because sourspot behaves so wildly different than sweetspot and you are always fishing for one or the other. you dont want to have a situation where you're struggling to get your character to behave the way you want them to reliably WHILE also fighting the opponent.
it's really common to see Marths suffering from "Marthritis" where once opponents are past niche percent-specific-kill-setups (like 120+?), you just need to land raw read tippers to kill. otherwise, his sourspots just dont have enough knockback to really kill unless your opponent is just in a bad position (top of stage juggles, edgeguarding moments, etc..). then all you really have besides tippers you gotta wait until like 190+ is just up-throw (also nerfed from smash 4).
i think if we had another star player pick up marth again and get notable results with him, we might see more metagame progression on him and get players who are willing to put in the work to lab out all his specific percent and character specific kill setups (he does have them, although much more work to memorize than lucina). i still think on paper, marth is genuinely better, but consistency > potential especially in this game with the cheese meta.
exactly. its incredibly frustrating to have to win so many neutral interactions and still lose the match because you can't land your kill setups or raw tippers when you need them.
i think if we had another star player pick up marth again and get notable results with him, we might see more metagame progression on him and get players who are willing to put in the work to lab out all his specific percent and character specific kill setups (he does have them, although much more work to memorize than lucina)
this point is huge. People point to a few sets of MKLeo playing marth and say "see not even leo could make it work" but like leo never really tried that hard with marth, has self admitted he doesn't really lab, and tbh his lucina was never anything special either. This game has so many characters that representation by top level player is necessarily spread thin.
there is, but the difference is not THIS drastic. there is absolutely no way marth is worse than pit and young link. they should be near the same on the tier list, while lucina should be hire as well. definitely better than falco imo
Does Marth even have any results or good players? Lucina results haven't been nearly as good since Protobanham stopped going to tourneys as well. Meanwhile Pit started being seen as a solid character after Zackray started getting results in late meta.
Let’s gooo I started this discussion lol. But seriously though it’s fine to say Lucina is better, it’s ridiculous to say they’re literally 2 tiers apart
I still don’t think they are 2 tiers apart, I think they’re in the same tier, just clearly Lucina being higher. Marth is harder to learn, but the tipper rewards can be extremely absurd and that makes up some of the loss of consistency. But in terms of tier list placement, I don’t see there being specific MU’s that Lucina wins and Marth loses
Yes, but not enough to justify the gap. Hit boxes and frame data are the same, it's impossible. It's just that of course one will always be preferred cause in this case bit more consistent, hence other gets less played and they act like it's miles difference. Bogus
The tipper hitboxes for Marth are just kinda bad, to a point where shit like his Jab and Nair won’t even connect properly sometimes, or you’ll hit someone at what is clearly max range and just not register a tipper. Often times the tipper isn’t even that much stronger than Lucina’s version of the move either, but the sourspot is still way weaker, with one of the most relevant cases being Fair. They also took away Uthrow as a kill option and have made Marth/Lucina swordfighters with range more comparable to most brawlers than other swordfighters, so Lucina hitting at like 75% tipper power across the board makes her way better at scrapping in close range and taking stocks with stray hits. Meanwhile, Marth usually needs the tipper to seal the deal without Uthrow as a fallback, especially with recoveries being so strong and sourspot Fair/Bair doing basically nothing, and if he messes up his spacing he can’t just keeping clicking buttons like Lucina.
Basically the skill ceiling for Marth is higher. The fact that everyone has a collective skill issue is why Marth is so much lower. You have to know when to space out tippers and when to get sour hits to combo into tippers.
tbf it's not just a skill issue, sometimes you simply don't have enough time to set up a tipper, or sometimes the game will just say no, for example the top left was a sour while the top right was a tipper, and both bottom pics are the result of doing the dair to fsmash setup properly at the correct percents but being screwed from the zaxis
most chars don't face this as they simply don't need to try and hit the edge of their hitboxes all the time in a really fast game where animations can change drastically in a single frame
Because smash tier lists are awful. Marth is harder but better if played right. Smash tier lists are just based on what random top players feel like and not actually based on any matchups or potential.
Inconsistency Marth can either kill way earlier then lucina or incredibly later. There's also different combos for Marth because of his tipper spacing I can't remember from the top of my head lemme see if I can find it on the Parrallel Falcions discord.
Marth’s tipper is inconsistent and he doesn’t have very good confirms into it, and if he hits at the hilt, at earlier percents he can be very unsafe on hit, which hurts him in neutral.
It’s like from Melee to Ultimate, Roy and Marth switched places.
Marth's tipper is not very good in Ultimate. Lucina is better due to consistency. Hell, Marth's tipper is so bad and Roy's reverse tipper is actually viable enough that Marth is the worst Marth in the game for that reason.
everyone else has answered already, but to summarize, marth is more interesting mechanically and therefore worse, just like how low tiers are cooler and more fun than high tiers usually
The biggest thing that makes Marth so much lower than Lucina is that this tier list is awful. Somebody who contributed to it put King Dedede in their top 5 in the game…
Anyways, Marth has a much higher skill floor for a marginally higher skill cieling. His tipper is incredibly good, but so small that it’s inconsistent. You’d think “Oh I’ll just get really consistent at his tipper set ups” but then hurtbox shifting shenanigans and even DI can force a sourspot or just make the move miss entirely. Plus, some moves like Backair, Lucina still kills only like 12% later…
Marth has a higher skill ceiling with the “tipper” mechanic. If you are really good at spacing and hitting with the tip/crit part of the sword, you will do kore damage and kill faster. But Lucina does the same damage throughout the sword no matter if you are up close or spaced. This averages her out making her easier to play.
These days Yosh just full hops twice and everyone's brain freaks out, apparently it's free combo fodder. A lot of players overthink and don't slow down, and they keep falling for Yosh's late aerials.
I’m not entirely certain, but the character might be being judged by a metric by which Marth is considered entirely obsolete given the existence of Lucina. With that kind of justification, you could reasonably put him that much lower, because you wouldn’t have any competitive advantage to choosing him over Lucina thereby reducing his value to near zero.
What people don't talk about is how much conterplay that tippers introduce in neutral. More specifically, even if the Marth Player is consistent at landing them generally, any opponent with at least baseline knowledge of Marth's wincon knows that Marth needs to land his tippers at a specific spacing with specific timings.
If you know Marth is spacing for a tipper with all of his aerials and you have a general idea of what move he's going to hit you with, then chances are you should always know when that attack is coming because any sooner or later could result in a sourspot.
Then there's the 10% rule at play. Because Marth's sourspot outprioritizes his tipper, he loses a lot of counterpokes that Lucina would at least Clank with.
With Lucina, you have all 60 frames per second to delay/mash your attacks which creates neutral ambiguity and her sword should clank consistently across all other attacks in the game.
With Marth, his ability to mix up his attack speed is quartered, meaning you should generally know when he's going to hit you based on his positioning. And then he loses way more head to head interactions meaning there are instances where the opponent can just overshoot in neutral and you can't react to their positioning to where you can hit them with the hitbox that wins.
Bayo has been good for the last like 4 years? Lima and Bloom4eva were doing great with the character post-quarantine, and after Bloom took a "break" from competitive, TamaPDaifuku appeared and opened a new way to play Bayo. Some people even think Bayo could be top tier.
oh dang, i mean to be fair i havent checked this game out in probably 4 years either lol. i'd go back for bayo if the netplay was a bit better (and maybe free?).
Because people want an easy game. Marth has higher highs but lower lows. If you’re not on your “A-game” Marth can let your opponents live much longer than they should and you can’t unga-bunga like Lucina can because of Martha sour spots. This is how you get a Marth dominating over weak and light character but they live to 200+ because Marth is missing tippers.
Lucina doesn’t have sweet or sour spots. So you won’t take stocks at 40 but you’ll never have a problem outright killing at normal percentage like 100-150.
Yes, Marth has tipper in his sword and Lucina doesn't hence this makes Lucina the better fighter because she has Marth's amazing move set and doesn't have to worry about tipper or where she's standing.
Since everyone’s saying the reason why Marth isn’t as good as Lucina, I’d jus like to add why I think Marth is so much weaker in Ultimate specifically compared to his earlier versions. I think it’s because unlike Smash 4, where Lucina was added very late into the game’s production, Marth and Lucina were always going to be in Smash Ultimate from the get-go, and this impacted how they balanced Marth, so they balanced him differently than they had in previous games. To be more specific, I think th dev team decided to make Marth’s tipper mechanic more extreme in Ultimate compared to his earlier appearances to make him stand out from Lucina; but all this did was make Marth more unreliable.
Marth was better in 4 because tippers were consistent and had a bigger hitbox sod they were much easier to land than in this game, while Lucina just has a stick that does the same damage across the board, which is a lot more valuable in a faster paced game like Ult
Tippers, yo. Marths tippers are hard to land consistently, and consistency is one of the best things to have in an inconsistent game like Smash.
It's not just about it being "hard". If your opponent makes a small mistake and you have time to punish it, you will very rarely have time to step back and get a tipper, which means you will always get a sourspot.
Thats why he explained about consistency
Also if you hit someone with the tipper hitbox and the sour spot hitbox, the sourspot takes priority, unlike Roy whose stronger hitbox takes priority if both hit.
Yes, that's why he said Inconsistent
It's not inconsistent, that's the point. You will consistently get sourspots, which is why lucina is better.
or you could position yourself in a way where ur in the range of tipper when they make the mistake
Also, it also helps to not get hit. Preferably at all.
"Just have perfect spacing at all times bro"
In addition to Marth not quite having the same hitboxes as in Smash 4, the hurtbox shifting in Ultimate is crazy, way more than in the previous games.
Ikr, the amount of times I get robbed because I go to punish a smash attack that I saw coming from 50 days ago, and the wind back of the character's model makes me miss by a fucking hair... and die for it... So infuriating!
Bingo. Consistency, lack of extremely damaging combos or opportunities that lead to extremely low damage KOs, and their play style being too honest. Great edgeguards for low percent KOs is their optimal play and that doesn't work against a lot of characters cracked recoveries.
Technically if played perfectly, marth would be better
But nobody plays perfectly 100% of the time.
Marth uses the tipper mechanic meaning the tip of the sword does more damage and knock back, whereas Lucina does not have this mechanic, the whole sword does the same attack, which is less effective but more reliable than trying to nail tippers consistently.
To add to this. The part that isn't the tipper from Marth is weaker than Lucinas consistent blade.
I know that feels like it should be implied but I just think it should be stated
I mean if that wasn’t clear then people should just play Marth over Lucina lol
If the weaker part was stronger then Lucina’s entire sword then Marth would be strong asf
true but that also gives him combos and general advantage state that lucina does not have access to, and people always conveniently leave that part out.
I find it funny too because in the Roy vs Chrom comparison people are always quick to bring up Roys sourspot combos as a benefit, even though its really only upair that does it and sometimes fair. Marths sour spot combos/advantage are overall more potent than roys, yet are never mentioned.
Overall marth is still worse than lucina, but i do firmly believe he is not as bad as people claim. The focus on "its impossible to only hit tippers" has people thinking about him the wrong way.
not even this, the tipper mechanic makes him have less combo routes than lucin
That’s just not true sourspots allow you to combo tippers into other moves at low%, and weak sourspot hits into strong tippers in a way lucina can’t do
my bad I been lied to
These are more inconsistent than in older games like melee iirc
That is true, but they’re still there. In theory marth can have a stronger combo game but that fact adds to the problem with Marth in ult being that he’s just not consistently rewarding enough.
tbf is there anything is ult that isnt less consistent than melee lol
Marth has a really hard tip but the rest is super underwhelming
Adding onto what everyone else said, it gives marth this particular issue where he either kills his opponent at 50% or 180% and nowhere in between. Lucinas consistent dmg/kb is still balanced to give her kill moves, and the biggest impact is felt in back air. Lucinas back air is a notorious edgeguaring tool that kills fairly early either outright or through gimping. Marths tipper bair might be stronger, but his tipper hitboxes are so difficult and inconsistent to land within the context of the game's engine and movement that 90% of the time youll hit the non-tipper bair and its considerably less threatening. This is felt through every kill option, where if your spacing isnt perfect, youre just not killing.
So yeah, sometimes marth can combo into tipper fsmash at 50% and you get deleted, but no player has made doing these things absolutely consistent and marth sees considerably lower results because of it.
Marth is fighting against the game engine the entire time.
He's a good character trapped in the wrong game. Like Brawl Falcon and Smash 4 Roy before him.
marth main here - it's complicated and multifacted but long story short is that ultimate's new mechanics and speed along with his nerfs he received from smash brawl and smash 4 basically caught up with him.
in 4, he was severely nerfed. however, after the buffs and metagame progression, there was still reliable ways to utilize Marth's tools to land mid-late percent kills and setups.
in ultimate, yes they do exist but thanks to the new engine along with his reduced tipper hitbox (introduced in 4), nabbing kills in the same situation is notably more challenging. spacing is his specific advantage he has to play around and theres way less ways to be precise to do this in ultimate. for this reason more players opt for lucina - shes consistent looking for specific kill setups, no need to get your spacing 100% correct. a lot of her moves "just work" the way you would think they do consistently across the blade at each percentage range. this is not the case with Marth because sourspot behaves so wildly different than sweetspot and you are always fishing for one or the other. you dont want to have a situation where you're struggling to get your character to behave the way you want them to reliably WHILE also fighting the opponent.
it's really common to see Marths suffering from "Marthritis" where once opponents are past niche percent-specific-kill-setups (like 120+?), you just need to land raw read tippers to kill. otherwise, his sourspots just dont have enough knockback to really kill unless your opponent is just in a bad position (top of stage juggles, edgeguarding moments, etc..). then all you really have besides tippers you gotta wait until like 190+ is just up-throw (also nerfed from smash 4).
i think if we had another star player pick up marth again and get notable results with him, we might see more metagame progression on him and get players who are willing to put in the work to lab out all his specific percent and character specific kill setups (he does have them, although much more work to memorize than lucina). i still think on paper, marth is genuinely better, but consistency > potential especially in this game with the cheese meta.
This. Marths kill percentage gap. I swear he can make a light weight feel heavy
exactly. its incredibly frustrating to have to win so many neutral interactions and still lose the match because you can't land your kill setups or raw tippers when you need them.
this point is huge. People point to a few sets of MKLeo playing marth and say "see not even leo could make it work" but like leo never really tried that hard with marth, has self admitted he doesn't really lab, and tbh his lucina was never anything special either. This game has so many characters that representation by top level player is necessarily spread thin.
Lucina is a baddie, that’s why.
there is, but the difference is not THIS drastic. there is absolutely no way marth is worse than pit and young link. they should be near the same on the tier list, while lucina should be hire as well. definitely better than falco imo
Young Link and Pit's peaks are better than Marth's. I could definitely see them being better.
Does Marth even have any results or good players? Lucina results haven't been nearly as good since Protobanham stopped going to tourneys as well. Meanwhile Pit started being seen as a solid character after Zackray started getting results in late meta.
Let’s gooo I started this discussion lol. But seriously though it’s fine to say Lucina is better, it’s ridiculous to say they’re literally 2 tiers apart
Not 2 tiers apart? Have you ever played them both?
Of course, I play them both
IMO they are definitely two tiers apart. lucina's learning curve is gradual, marth's is a 90 degree wall
I still don’t think they are 2 tiers apart, I think they’re in the same tier, just clearly Lucina being higher. Marth is harder to learn, but the tipper rewards can be extremely absurd and that makes up some of the loss of consistency. But in terms of tier list placement, I don’t see there being specific MU’s that Lucina wins and Marth loses
Yes, but not enough to justify the gap. Hit boxes and frame data are the same, it's impossible. It's just that of course one will always be preferred cause in this case bit more consistent, hence other gets less played and they act like it's miles difference. Bogus
The tipper hitboxes for Marth are just kinda bad, to a point where shit like his Jab and Nair won’t even connect properly sometimes, or you’ll hit someone at what is clearly max range and just not register a tipper. Often times the tipper isn’t even that much stronger than Lucina’s version of the move either, but the sourspot is still way weaker, with one of the most relevant cases being Fair. They also took away Uthrow as a kill option and have made Marth/Lucina swordfighters with range more comparable to most brawlers than other swordfighters, so Lucina hitting at like 75% tipper power across the board makes her way better at scrapping in close range and taking stocks with stray hits. Meanwhile, Marth usually needs the tipper to seal the deal without Uthrow as a fallback, especially with recoveries being so strong and sourspot Fair/Bair doing basically nothing, and if he messes up his spacing he can’t just keeping clicking buttons like Lucina.
Lucina is better but its greatly exxaggerated how much better she is
Basically the skill ceiling for Marth is higher. The fact that everyone has a collective skill issue is why Marth is so much lower. You have to know when to space out tippers and when to get sour hits to combo into tippers.
Correct answer lol
tbf it's not just a skill issue, sometimes you simply don't have enough time to set up a tipper, or sometimes the game will just say no, for example the top left was a sour while the top right was a tipper, and both bottom pics are the result of doing the dair to fsmash setup properly at the correct percents but being screwed from the zaxis
most chars don't face this as they simply don't need to try and hit the edge of their hitboxes all the time in a really fast game where animations can change drastically in a single frame
https://preview.redd.it/oql9bxij9j9g1.png?width=1217&format=png&auto=webp&s=e14dd17b1e8774412514e1c420acdba6f331f93b
Lucina's damage is consistent while marth needs very good spacing to get the tipper or else his attacks will be very weak
Because smash tier lists are awful. Marth is harder but better if played right. Smash tier lists are just based on what random top players feel like and not actually based on any matchups or potential.
inconsistent, sometimes you can't or don't tipper when you need to, sometimes even when you're doing everything right
Sure but it's also the thing that makes marth way cooler and more satisfying.
Inconsistency Marth can either kill way earlier then lucina or incredibly later. There's also different combos for Marth because of his tipper spacing I can't remember from the top of my head lemme see if I can find it on the Parrallel Falcions discord.
This HAS TO be a troll post
Marth’s tipper is inconsistent and he doesn’t have very good confirms into it, and if he hits at the hilt, at earlier percents he can be very unsafe on hit, which hurts him in neutral.
It’s like from Melee to Ultimate, Roy and Marth switched places.
Marth's tipper is not very good in Ultimate. Lucina is better due to consistency. Hell, Marth's tipper is so bad and Roy's reverse tipper is actually viable enough that Marth is the worst Marth in the game for that reason.
everyone else has answered already, but to summarize, marth is more interesting mechanically and therefore worse, just like how low tiers are cooler and more fun than high tiers usually
The biggest thing that makes Marth so much lower than Lucina is that this tier list is awful. Somebody who contributed to it put King Dedede in their top 5 in the game…
Anyways, Marth has a much higher skill floor for a marginally higher skill cieling. His tipper is incredibly good, but so small that it’s inconsistent. You’d think “Oh I’ll just get really consistent at his tipper set ups” but then hurtbox shifting shenanigans and even DI can force a sourspot or just make the move miss entirely. Plus, some moves like Backair, Lucina still kills only like 12% later…
Marth has a higher skill ceiling with the “tipper” mechanic. If you are really good at spacing and hitting with the tip/crit part of the sword, you will do kore damage and kill faster. But Lucina does the same damage throughout the sword no matter if you are up close or spaced. This averages her out making her easier to play.
Sorry that this is unrelated to Marth but I haven't seen an ultimate tier list in probably 3+ years, what is Yoshi doing all the way up there?
These days Yosh just full hops twice and everyone's brain freaks out, apparently it's free combo fodder. A lot of players overthink and don't slow down, and they keep falling for Yosh's late aerials.
Consistency
I haven’t really played since the game came out but it’s sad to see my main on the bottom
Lucina doesn't require the enemy touching her tip
holy SHIT i didn't realize this until now.
4 entire tiers?!
I’m not entirely certain, but the character might be being judged by a metric by which Marth is considered entirely obsolete given the existence of Lucina. With that kind of justification, you could reasonably put him that much lower, because you wouldn’t have any competitive advantage to choosing him over Lucina thereby reducing his value to near zero.
Lucinais a fundamentally less interesting version of Marth. Instead of having a unique mechanic (the tip hitbox), she just has raw stats.
TIL all my favs are trash
What people don't talk about is how much conterplay that tippers introduce in neutral. More specifically, even if the Marth Player is consistent at landing them generally, any opponent with at least baseline knowledge of Marth's wincon knows that Marth needs to land his tippers at a specific spacing with specific timings.
If you know Marth is spacing for a tipper with all of his aerials and you have a general idea of what move he's going to hit you with, then chances are you should always know when that attack is coming because any sooner or later could result in a sourspot.
Then there's the 10% rule at play. Because Marth's sourspot outprioritizes his tipper, he loses a lot of counterpokes that Lucina would at least Clank with.
With Lucina, you have all 60 frames per second to delay/mash your attacks which creates neutral ambiguity and her sword should clank consistently across all other attacks in the game.
With Marth, his ability to mix up his attack speed is quartered, meaning you should generally know when he's going to hit you based on his positioning. And then he loses way more head to head interactions meaning there are instances where the opponent can just overshoot in neutral and you can't react to their positioning to where you can hit them with the hitbox that wins.
TL;DR: Marth is Quick Time Event. 😭
because lucina is more hot than marth
I just wanna say Sonic should stay as an S+. He is undoubtedly the best character with Steve.
Playing Marth for one game is fine, great even, but playing Marth for an entire bracket is purgatory. At least Lucina can kill more consistently.
wait, bayonetta is actually good now?
Bayo has been good for the last like 4 years? Lima and Bloom4eva were doing great with the character post-quarantine, and after Bloom took a "break" from competitive, TamaPDaifuku appeared and opened a new way to play Bayo. Some people even think Bayo could be top tier.
oh dang, i mean to be fair i havent checked this game out in probably 4 years either lol. i'd go back for bayo if the netplay was a bit better (and maybe free?).
You can always check the vods and they might give you some inspiration to keep watching, the netplay will probably always be miserable lol
He is the worst performing character in tournaments because Lucina is more consistent
Lucina is cuter 🙂↕️
Because people want an easy game. Marth has higher highs but lower lows. If you’re not on your “A-game” Marth can let your opponents live much longer than they should and you can’t unga-bunga like Lucina can because of Martha sour spots. This is how you get a Marth dominating over weak and light character but they live to 200+ because Marth is missing tippers.
Lucina doesn’t have sweet or sour spots. So you won’t take stocks at 40 but you’ll never have a problem outright killing at normal percentage like 100-150.
Are we still talking about Marth well-known disadvantage?
Lucina does not have to worry about sourspots, while Marth has to hit with the tip of his sword to deal the most efficient damage.
Yes, Marth has tipper in his sword and Lucina doesn't hence this makes Lucina the better fighter because she has Marth's amazing move set and doesn't have to worry about tipper or where she's standing.
I dunno. One is more tipsy I'm not a fuckin smash nerd lmao-
Lucina is better than marth because she has no tipper
And Marth's tipper is inconsistent
Since everyone’s saying the reason why Marth isn’t as good as Lucina, I’d jus like to add why I think Marth is so much weaker in Ultimate specifically compared to his earlier versions. I think it’s because unlike Smash 4, where Lucina was added very late into the game’s production, Marth and Lucina were always going to be in Smash Ultimate from the get-go, and this impacted how they balanced Marth, so they balanced him differently than they had in previous games. To be more specific, I think th dev team decided to make Marth’s tipper mechanic more extreme in Ultimate compared to his earlier appearances to make him stand out from Lucina; but all this did was make Marth more unreliable.
Literally no good players ever played Mart
MkLeo:
He only used him as a counterpick,
No there's no difference.
Marth was better in 4 because tippers were consistent and had a bigger hitbox sod they were much easier to land than in this game, while Lucina just has a stick that does the same damage across the board, which is a lot more valuable in a faster paced game like Ult
Tippers arent that good in this game and there aren't really any weak spot combos either.