Dude if I buffed a squirrel with my blood and they turn big and sentient, along with the capability to generate more of my blood, I would NOT consider them related to creatures made purely of my blood
Yeah, they're not her daughters in the sense she gave birth to them. They're still related. She put her literal essence of being into them, which caused them to completely mutate and gain her powers. I don't think "blood" is a perfect comparison, but I'll use it for the sake of this argument. They literally have her blood inside them. They are, by definition, blood related.
If god comes down to earth and decides to uplift the chimpanzees or whatever to be like humans god is not suddenly the parent of all chimpanzees. The Pharlids would've had actual biological parents before they were uplifted to be Weavers
Lace is absolutely GMS daughter in pretty much every way but Herrah isn't
Okay first off in Christianity God is literally called our "father" so your example kinda fucking sucks lol
But to answer it anyway: if God just uses some magic to uplift them, then you're right, he's not. But if God uses his own essence of being to do it (GMS is literally made of the silk she used to uplift them), then yes, he is now related to them, because their bodies contain his genes as a vital part of how they function.
If you wanna get technical he wouldn't be their "father", but they'd still be related. At least a brother or a cousin or something.
I don't care enough about Christian beliefs to claim what I'm saying here is definitely correct but I always understood God the father as being the father of creation/the universe and Christ. But only Christ. I am pretty sure Christians explicitly reject the thought that God is everyone's father. In a "Christ, his only son" way
But to answer it anyway: if God just uses some magic to uplift them, then you're right, he's not. But if God uses his own essence of being to do it (GMS is literally made of the silk she used to uplift them), then yes, he is now related to them, because their bodies contain his genes as a vital part of how they function.
That doesn't make any sense. If a bunch of scientists inject human dna into a mouse (fuck all animal testing btw) they are not suddenly related to the mouse. Pretty much every single bug in the entirety of Pharloom has GMS silk inside of their bodies, that doesn't mean they're related
And even they would be related, they would be related as an entire species. Not to a specific person. The fact that GMS is completely unique and basically her own species isn't really that relevant here
The mouse probably would not survive that shit. If it did, the question is whether or not the DNA would completely change how its body works and replace its original DNA.
If not, then no, they're not related, the mouse just had an impactless injection.
If yes, then yeah, the mouse is related to whoever's DNA it was, because that person's genes are now a fundamental part of the mouse's genes too.
That's the difference between the Weavers and just regular people of Pharloom. The Weavers became a completely new species that runs on her genes. The people literally just took a drug.
The fact that GMS is completely unique and basically her own species isn't really that relevant here
You're right, it's not. She's a different species from the Weavers, but that's irrelevant, because they're still related.
Okay first off in Christianity God is literally called our "father" so your example kinda fucking sucks lol
If anything, I think that makes the example better. Despite the use of the word “father” and common phrases like “all of god’s children”, it’s not weird for two of “god’s children” to be in romantic relationships. Also, depending on the flavor of Christianity, communion is literally consuming the blood of Jesus/god, so the comparison isn’t too far off
Uh I don't think you understood my comment lmao, there's no literal blood, I was using blood as a stand-in for silk because that was the closest real life comparison I could find
In that sense Lace would be a child made ENTIRELY out of GMS's blood
"Silk as blood" dosent really work as an argument though. GMS just uplifted the pharlids.
By that logic the pale king is the biological father of the entirety of hollowness because he gave them sentience. Or radiance is the biological mother of post-hallownest because she has filled everyone with infection.
Are the weavers and lace kinda like adopted daughters? Yes, that they are. So we end up in a weird predicament here.
Hornet was raised not even knowing who GMS is. She and lace don't have any kind of familiar relationship, they met for the first time at the start of silksong.
They aren't related by blood so the question of "is it incest" is a philosophical one.
She didn't "just uplift" them, she shoved her silk, which literally makes up her whole being, into them. It's literally shown in the First Sinner cutscene.
The weavers' bodies contain GMS's genes inside them, the genes are a vital part of how they function, and the weavers can reproduce them. They are absolutely "blood related". Or like, if blood isn't a perfect match for silk, then fuck it, they're "silk related".
But saying it makes them genetically related to GMS is like saying pale king is related to the entirety of hallownest, radiance to post-hallownest and groal related to snail shamans because he stole the soul of one.
It's also been established that bugs that have had silk injected will pass on silk to their offspring. Does that mean everyone in pharloom are related to GMS?
Applying genetic logic to magic dosent really work.
I don't see how the Pale King relates at all, he just made bugs smart, he didn't change anything genetically about them.
The Radiance is a virus. It's not a vital function of your body, it's something living inside it. That's like saying all the bacteria and shit you have in you is related to you.
Soul in HK isn't literally people's souls, it's just a weird ass magic essence everyone generates. Groal didn't literally steal the shaman's soul, he just stole his magic goop. By your logic The Knight would be related to every single person in HK because he gets souls when hitting them.
As for the injection part, not really? Again, Lace is entirely made of silk, and the Weavers can produce silk. Both have silk as a default part of their bodies. Meanwhile, the people in Pharloom just injected it. If you injected drugs into yourself, your body wouldn't suddenly start producing drugs.
The pale king used pale magic to insert intelligence into the bugs around him, like how GMS inserted silk into pharlids.
The infection isn't like a virus. It dosent spread from person to person. It's the result of the radiance trying to regain control through the dreams of bugs. You can't catch infection by being near another infected being.
He stole his magic goop and inserted it into himself. You're the one making the argument that magically altering something makes you related, not me. My point is it's a bad take.
Silk is passed on from parent to child. That is the body generating silk in a limited fashion.
Were Adam and Eve related because they had the same father? No because they were created with idk god powers like lace.
Also this is a basic philosophical question. Yes most people think it’s gross because they have their own siblings but strictly speaking even if they were related genetically there’s no problem with their relationship in that regard so long as they don’t reproduce biologically which they probably can’t do anyway because one’s made of silk.
Yeah, but the Weavers and Lace weren't created through "god powers", they were created using GMS's literal body. She is MADE of silk, it is her body, her blood, her essence of being, and whatever else. Lace was made entirely using it, and the Weavers were made when she shoved it into them. Both have silk as a vital part of how their body functions. It's completely different from what Christian God did, I don't know how you're the second person using him as an example.
And Eve was literally made from Adam’s rib according to scripture, an even closer “genetic relationship” than both weavers and Lace having some of GMS’s silk infused into them
The Bible literally has incestuous relationships. Adam and Eve's own children married each other. Don't act like the Bible treating it as normal means it's actually normal lmfao. That book has some fucked up shit.
I never implied it should be taken as the paragon of morality. I was just refuting you saying that the comparison is completely different
Regardless of comparisons to Christianity, I think the central point here is that you are taking things that are clearly more magical or symbolic in nature and trying to act as if they imply genetic parentage. The infusion of silk shouldn’t be taken as evidence of genetic similarity even if it enhances the abilities of a creature or species
You’re right, though doesn’t matter really, them being related doesn’t realistically do harm to the ship. The more problematic aspect is that lace is very immature and compared with a child in that way and hornet is as mature as an immortal.
More like has delusions about being your mother. Weavers weren't exactly happy with GMS, and the only one who talks about their parent/child bond at all, states that it's a lie.
Again, if that hypothetical deity comes to Earth and declares that they are parent for each human personally, will it make all of us literally sisters and brothers?
No, because that doesn't make any sense. Your hypothetical deity would have influenced things at least a few million years ago. Hornet is a second generation Weaver.
To be clear I don't think there's an issue with shipping both characters, they're not related by blood, didn't grow up together with a family bond, and they're not even the same species. Lace isn't even made of flesh at all.
But the weavers and lace were created by grandmother silk she gave them her power or her silk similar to giving life the whole theme of the game is motherhood gms is lace and the weavers mom or parent so if one of the weavers is the kid of gms and they had hornets as their kid lace would be hornets aunt
Lace was made by grand mother silk the weavers were also made by grandmother silk hornet is the kid of one of the weavers so that must mean even if they aren’t blood related they are still family
I mean, wether they're related or not is something I'm not smart enough to decide, but hornet certainly isn't her aunt. Aunt mean sister of the mother. Hell for all we knoe Lace could be OLDER than Hornet snd she just doesn't age.
Well that doesn't work either, because she's not a sister of the weavers. She's part of a completely different branching lineage. Also sorry for misreading that lol
But they all share the same common family member GMS Lace is directly the daughter of GMS. Even if the weavers weren’t originally made by GMS, they were transformed into her children when she changed them into weavers. She made them semi pale beings, giving them a bit of her essence and infusing that into them. She made them her daughters, willingly or unwillingly. They are her kids
Eh I mean it's kind of a hard thing to talk about, especially cause we don't really know how old either are. I still wouldn't call Lace her aunt tho. They came from a similar source but they weren't born together and Lace didn't even meet a weaver so calling them related is not wrong but not correct either. That's just my interpretation tho
But when one of the main themes of the game is motherhood and the weavers and lace are the creations of grandmother silk and hornet is the kid of one of the weavers then wouldn’t that make even through one of the smallest connections that makes hornet laces niece
Well, Hornet being Lace's niece doesn't really contribute to the themes of motherhood. The Weavers and Lace/Phantom both are important to Mother Silk, but not to each other.
Trobbio
this
hornets big ass head
Shell
https://preview.redd.it/dyv7juw8hd6g1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=7588d30ef5bba18fd0cec0bfe593802ee9a26e4f
rip this fanart i made back in april that didnt aged well
why, its still so cute!
[deleted]
Dude if I buffed a squirrel with my blood and they turn big and sentient, along with the capability to generate more of my blood, I would NOT consider them related to creatures made purely of my blood
How could the conversation have possibly gone here with one comment?
I'm guessing the guy mentioned incest
They did
And then what
Then I invade Brazil and start a kingdom, telling the squirrels they are my children
Hopefully nothing goes wrong
Have you ever been locked inside a comically large peanut before?
Ahahahaha this comment killed me
what the fuck did that deleted comment say
Something about "aren't they related?"
And then I replied with something a little ostentatiousÂ
I mean you're allowed to "not consider" it related to you if you want, but it is still technically your blood relative now
No it isnt
Bro really just said "nuh uh"
Because donating blood to someone doesn't make you related
Donating blood also doesn't cause someone's entire body to mutate completely and start producing your blood
Oh also it's more like "I gave my blood to a rat, and then 500 years later one of that rats descendants wants to date my daughter"
Put it this way: I don’t think a teacher would consider their students and their blood children to be related.
It's still peak dw
Now draw this but with Shakra and Hornet standing on a wardrobe (if you like the ship and have time ofc)
10 / 10 work
No this is super adorable I think it aged fantastically ❤️
unrelated but why does it look like lace got pissed on?
Ewwwww
Oh no it seems team cherry will have to build another game to fit such a tall character in.
https://www.tumblr.com/devi-dizz/802273656635097088/shes-actually-a-tiny-lil-bitty-bit-taller?source=share
Isnt height mesured from the top of ones head
Lace is just silksongs counterpart of CSM Power
Tf is up with people in this comments section being downvoted for calling Hornet and Lace related
I feel like a lot of people downvoting this shit are just immediately doing it without even considering the possibility I have a point
Because they aren't? The game explicitly says that the weavers are not related to GMS
https://hollowknight.wiki/w/First_Sinner
Yeah, they're not her daughters in the sense she gave birth to them. They're still related. She put her literal essence of being into them, which caused them to completely mutate and gain her powers. I don't think "blood" is a perfect comparison, but I'll use it for the sake of this argument. They literally have her blood inside them. They are, by definition, blood related.
If god comes down to earth and decides to uplift the chimpanzees or whatever to be like humans god is not suddenly the parent of all chimpanzees. The Pharlids would've had actual biological parents before they were uplifted to be Weavers
Lace is absolutely GMS daughter in pretty much every way but Herrah isn't
Okay first off in Christianity God is literally called our "father" so your example kinda fucking sucks lol
But to answer it anyway: if God just uses some magic to uplift them, then you're right, he's not. But if God uses his own essence of being to do it (GMS is literally made of the silk she used to uplift them), then yes, he is now related to them, because their bodies contain his genes as a vital part of how they function.
If you wanna get technical he wouldn't be their "father", but they'd still be related. At least a brother or a cousin or something.
I don't care enough about Christian beliefs to claim what I'm saying here is definitely correct but I always understood God the father as being the father of creation/the universe and Christ. But only Christ. I am pretty sure Christians explicitly reject the thought that God is everyone's father. In a "Christ, his only son" way
Then don't use God as an example when you don't know enough about the topic lmao
Also you didn't even respond to the rest of my comment where I entertained it anyway
Fair
That doesn't make any sense. If a bunch of scientists inject human dna into a mouse (fuck all animal testing btw) they are not suddenly related to the mouse. Pretty much every single bug in the entirety of Pharloom has GMS silk inside of their bodies, that doesn't mean they're related
And even they would be related, they would be related as an entire species. Not to a specific person. The fact that GMS is completely unique and basically her own species isn't really that relevant here
The mouse probably would not survive that shit. If it did, the question is whether or not the DNA would completely change how its body works and replace its original DNA.
If not, then no, they're not related, the mouse just had an impactless injection.
If yes, then yeah, the mouse is related to whoever's DNA it was, because that person's genes are now a fundamental part of the mouse's genes too.
That's the difference between the Weavers and just regular people of Pharloom. The Weavers became a completely new species that runs on her genes. The people literally just took a drug.
You're right, it's not. She's a different species from the Weavers, but that's irrelevant, because they're still related.
If anything, I think that makes the example better. Despite the use of the word “father” and common phrases like “all of god’s children”, it’s not weird for two of “god’s children” to be in romantic relationships. Also, depending on the flavor of Christianity, communion is literally consuming the blood of Jesus/god, so the comparison isn’t too far off
Lace litteraly dosent have blood. She was woven from silk. She's a puppet brought to life. She litteraly can't have blood relatives.
Uh I don't think you understood my comment lmao, there's no literal blood, I was using blood as a stand-in for silk because that was the closest real life comparison I could find
In that sense Lace would be a child made ENTIRELY out of GMS's blood
"Silk as blood" dosent really work as an argument though. GMS just uplifted the pharlids.
By that logic the pale king is the biological father of the entirety of hollowness because he gave them sentience. Or radiance is the biological mother of post-hallownest because she has filled everyone with infection.
Are the weavers and lace kinda like adopted daughters? Yes, that they are. So we end up in a weird predicament here.
Hornet was raised not even knowing who GMS is. She and lace don't have any kind of familiar relationship, they met for the first time at the start of silksong.
They aren't related by blood so the question of "is it incest" is a philosophical one.
She didn't "just uplift" them, she shoved her silk, which literally makes up her whole being, into them. It's literally shown in the First Sinner cutscene.
The weavers' bodies contain GMS's genes inside them, the genes are a vital part of how they function, and the weavers can reproduce them. They are absolutely "blood related". Or like, if blood isn't a perfect match for silk, then fuck it, they're "silk related".
I know how the weavers where made.
But saying it makes them genetically related to GMS is like saying pale king is related to the entirety of hallownest, radiance to post-hallownest and groal related to snail shamans because he stole the soul of one.
It's also been established that bugs that have had silk injected will pass on silk to their offspring. Does that mean everyone in pharloom are related to GMS?
Applying genetic logic to magic dosent really work.
No it's not?
I don't see how the Pale King relates at all, he just made bugs smart, he didn't change anything genetically about them.
The Radiance is a virus. It's not a vital function of your body, it's something living inside it. That's like saying all the bacteria and shit you have in you is related to you.
Soul in HK isn't literally people's souls, it's just a weird ass magic essence everyone generates. Groal didn't literally steal the shaman's soul, he just stole his magic goop. By your logic The Knight would be related to every single person in HK because he gets souls when hitting them.
As for the injection part, not really? Again, Lace is entirely made of silk, and the Weavers can produce silk. Both have silk as a default part of their bodies. Meanwhile, the people in Pharloom just injected it. If you injected drugs into yourself, your body wouldn't suddenly start producing drugs.
The pale king used pale magic to insert intelligence into the bugs around him, like how GMS inserted silk into pharlids.
The infection isn't like a virus. It dosent spread from person to person. It's the result of the radiance trying to regain control through the dreams of bugs. You can't catch infection by being near another infected being.
He stole his magic goop and inserted it into himself. You're the one making the argument that magically altering something makes you related, not me. My point is it's a bad take.
Silk is passed on from parent to child. That is the body generating silk in a limited fashion.
Were Adam and Eve related because they had the same father? No because they were created with idk god powers like lace. Also this is a basic philosophical question. Yes most people think it’s gross because they have their own siblings but strictly speaking even if they were related genetically there’s no problem with their relationship in that regard so long as they don’t reproduce biologically which they probably can’t do anyway because one’s made of silk.
Yeah, but the Weavers and Lace weren't created through "god powers", they were created using GMS's literal body. She is MADE of silk, it is her body, her blood, her essence of being, and whatever else. Lace was made entirely using it, and the Weavers were made when she shoved it into them. Both have silk as a vital part of how their body functions. It's completely different from what Christian God did, I don't know how you're the second person using him as an example.
And Eve was literally made from Adam’s rib according to scripture, an even closer “genetic relationship” than both weavers and Lace having some of GMS’s silk infused into them
The Bible literally has incestuous relationships. Adam and Eve's own children married each other. Don't act like the Bible treating it as normal means it's actually normal lmfao. That book has some fucked up shit.
I never implied it should be taken as the paragon of morality. I was just refuting you saying that the comparison is completely different
Regardless of comparisons to Christianity, I think the central point here is that you are taking things that are clearly more magical or symbolic in nature and trying to act as if they imply genetic parentage. The infusion of silk shouldn’t be taken as evidence of genetic similarity even if it enhances the abilities of a creature or species
You’re right, though doesn’t matter really, them being related doesn’t realistically do harm to the ship. The more problematic aspect is that lace is very immature and compared with a child in that way and hornet is as mature as an immortal.
Isn’t lace hornets aunt?
As much as sentient android built by a god who is responsible for human evolution would be yours.
Tbf that god is also the adoptive mother of your mother.
Biologically they are not related but the family bonds are absolutely there.
More like has delusions about being your mother. Weavers weren't exactly happy with GMS, and the only one who talks about their parent/child bond at all, states that it's a lie.
Again, if that hypothetical deity comes to Earth and declares that they are parent for each human personally, will it make all of us literally sisters and brothers?
No, because that doesn't make any sense. Your hypothetical deity would have influenced things at least a few million years ago. Hornet is a second generation Weaver.
To be clear I don't think there's an issue with shipping both characters, they're not related by blood, didn't grow up together with a family bond, and they're not even the same species. Lace isn't even made of flesh at all.
Yes
But the weavers and lace were created by grandmother silk she gave them her power or her silk similar to giving life the whole theme of the game is motherhood gms is lace and the weavers mom or parent so if one of the weavers is the kid of gms and they had hornets as their kid lace would be hornets aunt
If I take monkey and evolve it into human somehow, I won't become her mother.
Again, forcefully evolved monkeys and sentient androids aren't exactly relatives, even if both were created/improved by same deity.
Also, First Sinner straight up says that GMS is not their mom.
How did you come to that?
Lace was made by grand mother silk the weavers were also made by grandmother silk hornet is the kid of one of the weavers so that must mean even if they aren’t blood related they are still family
That is kinda like saying that 2 humans can't love each other becose they are the same species
I mean, wether they're related or not is something I'm not smart enough to decide, but hornet certainly isn't her aunt. Aunt mean sister of the mother. Hell for all we knoe Lace could be OLDER than Hornet snd she just doesn't age.
Not lace is the aunt hornet is the niece not the other way around
Well that doesn't work either, because she's not a sister of the weavers. She's part of a completely different branching lineage. Also sorry for misreading that lol
But they all share the same common family member GMS Lace is directly the daughter of GMS. Even if the weavers weren’t originally made by GMS, they were transformed into her children when she changed them into weavers. She made them semi pale beings, giving them a bit of her essence and infusing that into them. She made them her daughters, willingly or unwillingly. They are her kids
Eh I mean it's kind of a hard thing to talk about, especially cause we don't really know how old either are. I still wouldn't call Lace her aunt tho. They came from a similar source but they weren't born together and Lace didn't even meet a weaver so calling them related is not wrong but not correct either. That's just my interpretation tho
Only if you consider Moth tribe and Mosskin tribe to be a big family as well. You can't just mix divine creation with being somebody's mom.
But when one of the main themes of the game is motherhood and the weavers and lace are the creations of grandmother silk and hornet is the kid of one of the weavers then wouldn’t that make even through one of the smallest connections that makes hornet laces niece
Well, Hornet being Lace's niece doesn't really contribute to the themes of motherhood. The Weavers and Lace/Phantom both are important to Mother Silk, but not to each other.