Forked Tower was also shit at launch but it has went through lots of improvements. At start you could only do it in a pug and there were no set times when you can get in. Now Chiper prices were reduced by 90% and dying cost less xp so 1 CE is enough to re-level.
It's still really punishing mechanic wise but atleast getting in there to practice is now easy.
You know, I'd expect a l33t gamer like you, who'd prefer an ultimate every patch, would at least think for a second and realize that "just wait 3 years to get my sloppy seconds as your content" really isn't an own you are trying to sell it as.
Like come on, you can solve TOP p5, you surely are capable of this logical step, right?
I actually haven't even stepped foot in TOP lol. No an ulti every patch would burn players out.
Gearing and levelling is core to the mmo experience. Are all these downvotes saying you don't want it?
Cuz you'd have even less "midcore"/casual content to do if you didn't.
Y'all wait for sloppy seconds all the time. You wait to unsync farm mounts for extremes, you wait at least an entire expansion to unsync savage and get the mount there... you wait an expansion for cosmic exploration crafts to be able to be macro'd (mark my words there will be a small resurgence of achievement hunters sometime in 8.x)...
The casual/midcore playerbase would be much happier if the status quo was doing content a year or two delayed.
In fact, that's the bulk of the content the casual playerbase does, mostly dungeons and trials that are several expacs old (roulettes).
I do think the mechanics of DRS individually are harder but the amount of collateral damage its possible to do in FT makes it way harder to complete especially while learning.
Hmm I would put FT at a middle ground between BA's lax difficulty and DRS complex mechanics. I'd say my rankings are DRS > FT >> BA in terms of difficulty.
For reference, I'm a player that progged+cleared FT and DRS on content, but cleared BA a bit halfway through ShB.
The major challenge we faced was finding an instance to house our coordinated runs.
In terms of mechanics, yeah there were more body checks by Magitaur, but less complex than say Superchess queen or Hot+Cold boss in DRS.
Buddy was acting like we all cried out for Bozja instances in unison when 2y ago when he and many others were asking for BA.
But ignoring that:
BA on patch was for the high end players. Look up an old BA callout doc to see how many mechs we skip now, plus we had stances and TP and all the bullshit from early expansions. Nobody had the high end armor yet. Plus stat squish really nerfed the numbers.
So if buddy wants BA similar as it is now, they just have to wait 2 expansions for all the vets to get the 7.5 jobs, 7.4 accessories and math out the best freelancer skills when they become shared. FT will melt and the vets will be able to carry anyone.
That's how BA works, if it was easy from the getgo it would just be another alliance raid or CLL/Dal and that's what OP should have requested.
BA was still easier than FT and DRS even on release.
Its been 3 expansions and 30 levels my friend. Are we going to compare extremes and savage too? Lets compare Alte Roite savage turn 1 to Black Cat. Or Tsukuyomi to Doom Train.
I do agree fire towers not having 1 person wipe the raid would help.
Uhhh both have traps that are a pretty good example where you can kill the raid easily if they're not percepted/dealt with properly. Adds in BA can get way out of hand if they're pulled early and you don't have vets doing a correction. You have vets doing 100s of runs which is why BA seems so safe.
Also on patch? Ozma had several points where 1 person can kill their party which causes a snowball wipe of the entire raid. This is still very possible even now if leads aren't paying attention.
You can also troll people in the instance by failing the support fate. I saw the support fate be failed twice when I was farming relics even in EW.
Yeah fire tower in trio is a bad mechanic and should be changed IMO, maybe the dragon should have a few less towers, the rest of the fight is good.
It's snowballs that wipe the most people in FT, not fireballs. Same as it is holy lance or rune axe clipping on boss 4, and nothing on boss 3.
Looking at your other answers it seems you have not run FT in a while. A coordinated reclear group will skip Boss 1 adds, boss 2 is just 2mins of afk'ing while the bosses are essentially dead, boss 3 fully skips tower without it even being close and you skip holy lance on boss 4.
And it is still harder than DRS or BA, simply due to the quickness of mechanics and the 'one guy wipes all' in addition to a limited amount of rezz stacks.
Most people that I see complain about FT complain about their first few clears rather than coordinated reclears of 10+ runs.
IDK if enrage proggers can skip towers as most don't have gear. Maybe all the prog groups are running mostly vets these days, idk haven't joined one but my friends group was wiping to boss 2 and 3 constantly.
Snowballs is def surprisingly fast when someone first progs, but I'm surprised that reclears still have trouble with it.
Admittedly I haven't been in for a hot minute, when I was clearing it was fire tower memes (I don't think that part is skippable) because someone was in the wrong stack or died to puddle and the stack got on the other group
Everything you mention is genuinely a skill issue. If you organize a proper run, with proper resources (raidplans, proper markers etc.) you can get a first timer run with 30+ first timers up to boss 4. If they all meme and didn't prepare properly, you will wipe at Boss 2.
Fireball can mostly be skipped, at least the second set of tankbusters and the go around. It is not the biggest chokepoint though, it is the tether from snowballs.
The runs get easier/faster with every update, considering we're now up to 15 mastery stacks and mystic knights additional 5% dmg taken debuff on the boss.
We're already at the point where its "easy" compared to 6-8 months ago. It is STILL harder than DRS and BA, simply due to the rezz stacks and personal responsibility.
I did 10+ clears in EW but most DRS fresh parties I've seen had a 1st lockout goal of getting past slimes and the first boss, sometimes they enraged on boss 2, once(?) they got to boss 3.
If your FT fresh groups are getting to boss 4 in 1 lockout now then come 7.5 it won't even be a contest... but sounds to me FT is already easier.
Have you ever considered that you posted a 2 year old comment and that my opinions on how content have changed?
Sure I asked for more BA when EW was out because I liked it more than DRS. But that’s because I didn’t think the devs were stupid enough to release southern front and swap CLL for a DRS clone with no DRN.
I’m not dumb enough to want only BA, I just like BA if they had the capacity to make one without interrupting other things (which apparently they don’t)
Yeah again its more a jab at the community more than you.
There's too many players that say "they literally could have done X and it would be 1000x better" when the feedback was Y at the time. See 2m meta of the discourse flip flopping
I hid the names but lmk if you get any weird dms and i can delete the post
I am merely checking if you mean Delibrum Reginae normal or savage. You can queue up for the former and get matched with randoms, but latter needs a premade.
As far as raids "feeling like raids" go ARs are the closest thing to traditional MMO raids but there's too many people in them. 24-man just steamrolls the content.
The problem is anything outside of savage/ultimate has no fail state. You can fall asleep in any AR and get the clear and the loot. The reason BA had appeal was because as an individual you can fail and not receive the loot even if the team succeeds. There is so much more individual accountability which leads to players actively trying and working together.
Or if there IS a failstate like the scales in the nald'thal fight the majority players are able to skip it through sheer force of will to avoid trolls.
I hadn't really raided since ShB, and I tried savage when DT came out.
I gotta say... I hated it. Every mechanic was just clocks or aoe dodges or stacks, and if one person died, you'd have to restart because of body checks. It didn't feel like raiding, it felt like trying to 100% a song in Guitar Hero.
It made me miss the days of ARR Alliance Raids, where there were mechanics, even if they were janky and simplistic, because it was more "stand here and execute your rotation" than "try to keep uptime of your super simplistic 1-2-3 rotation that you actually do things on every 2 minutes".
I miss that. I miss the puzzle aspect of some raids, even though most puzzles were just "pass the debuff" or "stand on the pad", it felt more like a classic raid than everyone dogpiling a boss and dodging aoes.
I think you just put into perspective, and made me understand why im so turned off of savage raiding. I couldnt even properly explain why I dont enjoy that content apart from the gear being unnecessary in most of the rest of the game.
This happens when you dumb down everything for the worst players in this game and everything which isn't Savage or harder must be designed to be cleareable by everyone without any resistance.
I honestly think the game could use a few “patchwerk” style fights. Mechanically simple encounters that are easy to understand, but have a very tight dps check that really requires people to optimize their GCD usage. M6S wasn’t quite patchwerk, but the fact that there was such a clear cut between dps that knew how to press their buttons and dps that didn’t, made m7s after it so much easier to prog on week 1-2. M6S really gatekept a lot of the more problematic PF players until later weeks.
Tell that to the multiple M8N runs I’ve been in that vote abandoned because everyone besides the tanks couldn’t stay off the floor. (Sarcasm, if it wasn’t clear)
i personally love just quick casting sacrifice to save other people during ozma to try to push them to the clear, much more satisfying than clearing myself.
One time I did that while I was calling ozma because I forgot that I was calling him and had to be in the arena to see him do stuff but I really wanted this one person who’d asked me like 15 questions to clear
Lucky after black hole he doesn’t do much so I called it from the hydatos camp for the remaining 20 seconds till it ended
I still feel like chaotic is a missed opportunity. I loved doing that one but we either need more variants of that or as you say unreals of the alliance raids. When friends told me that cloud of darkness has an add phase (not the clouds obviously) that was the first time I heard of that being a thing. Sadly there aren't many videos on youtube showing the old content when it was new and minimum ilvl doesn't cut it either.
Puzzle fights are always my favorites and I would do them much more than just "do your rotation, kill boss thing fast"
Of course you go to the worst example, but there are a lot of raids before those. How about forcing 24 level 100 players to do King Behemoth's mechanics? Or Glasya's. Nobody even remembers what they are.
Nah, I want to see Mateus and Hashmal casually vibe check and wipe alliances like they did 8 years ago so latecomers can fully understand why some people then stripped their gear before queuing AR roulette.
King Behemoth doesn't really do anything important that roulettes don't already see, only having a ranged player interact with the towers when they pop up. It's just the usual boulder LOS + tanks point iron giants away from cleaving the group, except it's done a bunch of times. Skipping most of the time spent in the fight in this case is actually a good thing.
Honestly I think that the 8 player boss rush model is one of the best things that this game innovated. They’re so much more fun than the slog MMO gameplay from 2008.
Wow my 2 year old opinions of BA are worthy of a shitpost now? All because I said the most common complaint against Bozja and how they could have made OC a win by making it “Bozja but not ugly”
Didn’t realise I was that collectively hated by the reddit community, i need to stop posting on reddit
For example, the hot/cold in FT is not even a fraction of the difficulty of hot/cold in DRS.
We're 30 levels past StB. Of course we've evolved a little past the in/out orange puddles of BA.
The main reason why players are whinging is personal responsibility. They risk wiping the group if they make a mistake. That still happens in BA btw.
There are literally 2-3 mechs that groups get stuck on in FT. They're not difficult.
I fully expect a lot of the dragon tower stuff to be skipped by most geared groups if there is any incentive to run in 7.5. They need to revise dead trio have skippable mechs so fire tower is skipped with good damage.
Then you've got a raid that a raid lead can call in their sleep.
Forked Tower's great sin is that it forced a bunch of people who think they can handle the easy end of midcore content because they get carried to extreme clears with like five deaths to face the fact that they've actually just been getting carried. It's the same people who thought Golbez Ex was impossibly difficult.
Yeah actually tbh its very possible this is the case provided they don't incentivize it...
The only reason to do Blood is to get gear, but I suspect they'll either make sanguinite available by some other method or have some other gearing mechanism for the next zone, cuz I don't think they'd require getting gear from Blood...
I also think its bullshit that if everyone in the raid still has lives left but you wipe that you can't reprog the fight with your remaining lives. Its stupid that a chemist has to prep a death/raise in anticipation for a wipe
The very vocal old heads gaslighting the devs into thinking that all the dated mmo jank from eureka was actually peak, and now we got this weird hybrid that doesn't feel as good.
Holy terminally online to bring up a 2 year old post of a random dude. You keeping track of regular posters on here? Its not even contradictory either. Weird stalker like behavior.
The issue is that BA and DRS was just going in for extra, while at least from my perspective it really wants you to hop in and clear it, while making it really hard to make a large enough party to make it in there in the first place, then again i haven't made it to zone 4 of eurika, however i have cleared DRS so i feel like i at least have some level of authority on the subject
Instance prog and getting enough gamers together to do the content is a bit of a hassle, props to the organizers of the discords that handle that, fucking legends that should have a statue of them inside the game
For me, DRS were the best times of 14. Nothing came close to being in the first pug that cleared DRS on Chaos. And farming mats for upgraded judge gear was no less fun.
If Forked Tower revolved entirely around thirce come ruin or things that kill only the people who screw it up it'd be a far better experience. Zero body checks. Entirely on you to do mechanics correctly.
Demon Wall:
Remove all the stack mechanics. Remove the Meteor mechanic.
Replace with gaze mechanics, forced launched into air and forward/backward. Spikes appear on specific sides and you have to be launched into air or have Float cast on you etc.
Don't fuck with us XIV players, we'll ask for content then when we get it ask who asked for this.
The nasty truth of the matter is that they wanted a mythical difficulty: They want something just hard enough to filter most of the playerbase but just easy enough for them to clear. They don't want actually hard content, they want to be in a secret "in-club" of people who can clear content that most others can't.
Forked is awesome even if the queue system is kinda ass but let's be real, people don't want to play that content, they want to roll through it and any mechanic they can't clear they just wanna be rez-chained until they get to the end.
Is that really such a bad thing? Part of the problem with XIV is there IS no content with that level of difficulty, it's just casual braindead content or hard-core content. The closest thing we have to actual Midcore is Pilgrim's Traverse
I think Savage is actually fine as midcore in terms of the actual difficulty of execution. The big problem is that the kind of difficulty in Savage is not fun or rewarding to engage with. There's basically zero judgement calls to be made and your strategy will never vary based on team comp unless you're doing dumb tank invuln stuff that is usually more effort than it is worth. You just memorize a pattern and resolve it while executing your rotation, the other pattern you have memorized. You clear the fight once and you've cleared it a billion times.
Yes, because half of the "hardcore content" really isn't that hard. Savage is not the ballbusting, spinebreaking expereince people think it is. Forked is not that hard, nor is Chaotic, nor is half the shit they put out there.
People just have this weird perception of any content that's harder than an EX and that they could never handle the EXTREME DIFFICULTY SPIKE of the first floor of savage. Which is sad; The community has gaslit itself into thinking that just because something requires coordination or personal responsibility its too tough for them when they could absolutely do it. And yeah, there will be times where you get an asshole, but that's true of all content in an MMO, not just XIV or harder content.
To the person reading this who has been scared of savage, uninterested of ultimates, quit off quantum, canceled out critirion...I believe in you. You're stronger than you think you are and you're better than you think you are. Get out there and try that content.
I assure you for the casual crowd, it is indeed ballbusting. I've even offered to carry my casual friends through, but they nope out after giving an honest try.
The average player can't even manage to resolve knockback/draw-in with stacking and spreading if my Doomtrain EX prog is any indicator, there definitely needs to be a middle ground besides EX/Savage
I never wanted a system that would be just good enough for me but to filter those below me so I could feel like I was in some “in club”, I did savage (I stopped because they are never going to fix healers) I just find current BA to be the most enjoyable level of difficulty in the game
That doesn’t mean anyone else has to or that I want people less competant than me to be filtered
They want BA as BA is now, not as BA used to be. Hard enough that you cant do it brain dead but easy enough you dont have to play perfectly.
What they say: "Make it like BA!"
What they mean: "make it like BA, after 3 expansions worth of power creep and veterans mapping the fights down to a science!"
Sure but how do you get there? Cuz you don't get vets replaying a baby easy instance, it's gotta be challenging initially to hook the vets.
You could start baby easy and not need the vets but then you just have another regular alliance raid
Forked Tower was also shit at launch but it has went through lots of improvements. At start you could only do it in a pug and there were no set times when you can get in. Now Chiper prices were reduced by 90% and dying cost less xp so 1 CE is enough to re-level. It's still really punishing mechanic wise but atleast getting in there to practice is now easy.
Cool but y'all want gear progression and a sense of powering up right? That's half the appeal of exploratory content.
Then wait until FT is piss easy just like BA, it might be in the latter half of 7.5, or at the very least when the next stat squish happens.
You know, I'd expect a l33t gamer like you, who'd prefer an ultimate every patch, would at least think for a second and realize that "just wait 3 years to get my sloppy seconds as your content" really isn't an own you are trying to sell it as.
Like come on, you can solve TOP p5, you surely are capable of this logical step, right?
I actually haven't even stepped foot in TOP lol. No an ulti every patch would burn players out.
Gearing and levelling is core to the mmo experience. Are all these downvotes saying you don't want it?
Cuz you'd have even less "midcore"/casual content to do if you didn't.
Y'all wait for sloppy seconds all the time. You wait to unsync farm mounts for extremes, you wait at least an entire expansion to unsync savage and get the mount there... you wait an expansion for cosmic exploration crafts to be able to be macro'd (mark my words there will be a small resurgence of achievement hunters sometime in 8.x)...
The casual/midcore playerbase would be much happier if the status quo was doing content a year or two delayed.
In fact, that's the bulk of the content the casual playerbase does, mostly dungeons and trials that are several expacs old (roulettes).
I mean Forked Tower is harder than BA and DRS. He explicitly said he wanted something not as hard as DRS.
Is it really harder than DRS? That one had some real tricky mechanics like Superchess or the Minotaur adds.
I do think the mechanics of DRS individually are harder but the amount of collateral damage its possible to do in FT makes it way harder to complete especially while learning.
Yes
The entirety of Forked is easier than literally just StQ wtf
Upvote for truth. FT mechanics are not difficult at all compared to DRS, the difference is that your failure affects other players
Hmm I would put FT at a middle ground between BA's lax difficulty and DRS complex mechanics. I'd say my rankings are DRS > FT >> BA in terms of difficulty.
For reference, I'm a player that progged+cleared FT and DRS on content, but cleared BA a bit halfway through ShB.
The major challenge we faced was finding an instance to house our coordinated runs.
In terms of mechanics, yeah there were more body checks by Magitaur, but less complex than say Superchess queen or Hot+Cold boss in DRS.
Buddy was acting like we all cried out for Bozja instances in unison when 2y ago when he and many others were asking for BA.
But ignoring that:
BA on patch was for the high end players. Look up an old BA callout doc to see how many mechs we skip now, plus we had stances and TP and all the bullshit from early expansions. Nobody had the high end armor yet. Plus stat squish really nerfed the numbers.
So if buddy wants BA similar as it is now, they just have to wait 2 expansions for all the vets to get the 7.5 jobs, 7.4 accessories and math out the best freelancer skills when they become shared. FT will melt and the vets will be able to carry anyone.
That's how BA works, if it was easy from the getgo it would just be another alliance raid or CLL/Dal and that's what OP should have requested.
BA was still easier than FT and DRS even on release.
But irregardless, Yoshi P did say he was going to try to make FT more accessible (even more than what the new phantom jobs and accessories give).
Its been 3 expansions and 30 levels my friend. Are we going to compare extremes and savage too? Lets compare Alte Roite savage turn 1 to Black Cat. Or Tsukuyomi to Doom Train.
I do agree fire towers not having 1 person wipe the raid would help.
Forked Tower has multiple points where 1 idiot can wipe the raid. BA has few if at all.
Forked Tower will never be as easy as BA because of that. Especially because the fight is hard locked so you always see fire towers.
Uhhh both have traps that are a pretty good example where you can kill the raid easily if they're not percepted/dealt with properly. Adds in BA can get way out of hand if they're pulled early and you don't have vets doing a correction. You have vets doing 100s of runs which is why BA seems so safe.
Also on patch? Ozma had several points where 1 person can kill their party which causes a snowball wipe of the entire raid. This is still very possible even now if leads aren't paying attention.
You can also troll people in the instance by failing the support fate. I saw the support fate be failed twice when I was farming relics even in EW.
Yeah fire tower in trio is a bad mechanic and should be changed IMO, maybe the dragon should have a few less towers, the rest of the fight is good.
It's snowballs that wipe the most people in FT, not fireballs. Same as it is holy lance or rune axe clipping on boss 4, and nothing on boss 3.
Looking at your other answers it seems you have not run FT in a while. A coordinated reclear group will skip Boss 1 adds, boss 2 is just 2mins of afk'ing while the bosses are essentially dead, boss 3 fully skips tower without it even being close and you skip holy lance on boss 4.
And it is still harder than DRS or BA, simply due to the quickness of mechanics and the 'one guy wipes all' in addition to a limited amount of rezz stacks.
Most people that I see complain about FT complain about their first few clears rather than coordinated reclears of 10+ runs.
IDK if enrage proggers can skip towers as most don't have gear. Maybe all the prog groups are running mostly vets these days, idk haven't joined one but my friends group was wiping to boss 2 and 3 constantly.
Snowballs is def surprisingly fast when someone first progs, but I'm surprised that reclears still have trouble with it.
Admittedly I haven't been in for a hot minute, when I was clearing it was fire tower memes (I don't think that part is skippable) because someone was in the wrong stack or died to puddle and the stack got on the other group
Everything you mention is genuinely a skill issue. If you organize a proper run, with proper resources (raidplans, proper markers etc.) you can get a first timer run with 30+ first timers up to boss 4. If they all meme and didn't prepare properly, you will wipe at Boss 2.
Fireball can mostly be skipped, at least the second set of tankbusters and the go around. It is not the biggest chokepoint though, it is the tether from snowballs.
The runs get easier/faster with every update, considering we're now up to 15 mastery stacks and mystic knights additional 5% dmg taken debuff on the boss.
We're already at the point where its "easy" compared to 6-8 months ago. It is STILL harder than DRS and BA, simply due to the rezz stacks and personal responsibility.
I did 10+ clears in EW but most DRS fresh parties I've seen had a 1st lockout goal of getting past slimes and the first boss, sometimes they enraged on boss 2, once(?) they got to boss 3.
If your FT fresh groups are getting to boss 4 in 1 lockout now then come 7.5 it won't even be a contest... but sounds to me FT is already easier.
Have you ever considered that you posted a 2 year old comment and that my opinions on how content have changed?
Sure I asked for more BA when EW was out because I liked it more than DRS. But that’s because I didn’t think the devs were stupid enough to release southern front and swap CLL for a DRS clone with no DRN.
I’m not dumb enough to want only BA, I just like BA if they had the capacity to make one without interrupting other things (which apparently they don’t)
Yeah again its more a jab at the community more than you.
There's too many players that say "they literally could have done X and it would be 1000x better" when the feedback was Y at the time. See 2m meta of the discourse flip flopping
I hid the names but lmk if you get any weird dms and i can delete the post
This is completely accurate ... Why is it being downvoted lol
Because it's only this game where they asked for the 2 minute meta and the moment it was added, they cried about what they wanted.
Doesn't help that this place is filled with the mainsub and all the non copers left for better MMOs.
People like you don't seem to understand that 2 different groups of people can ask for one thing, and hate that same think
https://preview.redd.it/viemjhup4z9g1.png?width=3640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6b2b0104ff8fb3c63d8401a2607f7fe0df773051
My body is a machine that turns sanguine ciphers into refunded sanguine ciphers
I can get a refund?!?
This isn't the mic drop you thought it was OP.
I liked Bozja :)
Me too man
The only reason I prefer drs is because you can queue for it instead of having to deal with discord bs to get a slot.
Lacus litore is the ideal example (random pop in zone you queue for) but only works because its lower difficulty not needing coordination
Since when can one queue for DRS? Or more like, will you ever get a pop in DRS if you queue alone kek. You'd get EX Trials pop sooner than that.
I probably used the wrong phrasing. You talk to a guy outside to enter as a pre made.
I wasn't referring to duty finder
I am merely checking if you mean Delibrum Reginae normal or savage. You can queue up for the former and get matched with randoms, but latter needs a premade.
On patch?
Most groups I know who've run BA politely asked randoms not to queue unless they're short members.
they took teh worst parts of both
raid-in-duty is not great. actually very annoying
and the way we have to run to each CE means we can't chill the way we could in bozja
this is objectively worse than both eureka and b ozja
FT isnt BA, its DRS with BA entry requirements
I'd say that only really applies to dead stars
As far as raids "feeling like raids" go ARs are the closest thing to traditional MMO raids but there's too many people in them. 24-man just steamrolls the content.
Reduce it to 16 or 8 and they'll feel better
The problem is anything outside of savage/ultimate has no fail state. You can fall asleep in any AR and get the clear and the loot. The reason BA had appeal was because as an individual you can fail and not receive the loot even if the team succeeds. There is so much more individual accountability which leads to players actively trying and working together.
Or if there IS a failstate like the scales in the nald'thal fight the majority players are able to skip it through sheer force of will to avoid trolls.
I hadn't really raided since ShB, and I tried savage when DT came out.
I gotta say... I hated it. Every mechanic was just clocks or aoe dodges or stacks, and if one person died, you'd have to restart because of body checks. It didn't feel like raiding, it felt like trying to 100% a song in Guitar Hero.
It made me miss the days of ARR Alliance Raids, where there were mechanics, even if they were janky and simplistic, because it was more "stand here and execute your rotation" than "try to keep uptime of your super simplistic 1-2-3 rotation that you actually do things on every 2 minutes".
I miss that. I miss the puzzle aspect of some raids, even though most puzzles were just "pass the debuff" or "stand on the pad", it felt more like a classic raid than everyone dogpiling a boss and dodging aoes.
I think you just put into perspective, and made me understand why im so turned off of savage raiding. I couldnt even properly explain why I dont enjoy that content apart from the gear being unnecessary in most of the rest of the game.
This happens when you dumb down everything for the worst players in this game and everything which isn't Savage or harder must be designed to be cleareable by everyone without any resistance.
I honestly think the game could use a few “patchwerk” style fights. Mechanically simple encounters that are easy to understand, but have a very tight dps check that really requires people to optimize their GCD usage. M6S wasn’t quite patchwerk, but the fact that there was such a clear cut between dps that knew how to press their buttons and dps that didn’t, made m7s after it so much easier to prog on week 1-2. M6S really gatekept a lot of the more problematic PF players until later weeks.
Tell that to the multiple M8N runs I’ve been in that vote abandoned because everyone besides the tanks couldn’t stay off the floor. (Sarcasm, if it wasn’t clear)
i personally love just quick casting sacrifice to save other people during ozma to try to push them to the clear, much more satisfying than clearing myself.
One time I did that while I was calling ozma because I forgot that I was calling him and had to be in the arena to see him do stuff but I really wanted this one person who’d asked me like 15 questions to clear
Lucky after black hole he doesn’t do much so I called it from the hydatos camp for the remaining 20 seconds till it ended
Chaotic should have been the "Unreal" version of alliance raids instead of one big hard boss fight.
I still feel like chaotic is a missed opportunity. I loved doing that one but we either need more variants of that or as you say unreals of the alliance raids. When friends told me that cloud of darkness has an add phase (not the clouds obviously) that was the first time I heard of that being a thing. Sadly there aren't many videos on youtube showing the old content when it was new and minimum ilvl doesn't cut it either.
Puzzle fights are always my favorites and I would do them much more than just "do your rotation, kill boss thing fast"
Unreal is just the same mechanics, upscaled to max level. No amount of scaling makes Myths of the Realm mechanics interesting.
Of course you go to the worst example, but there are a lot of raids before those. How about forcing 24 level 100 players to do King Behemoth's mechanics? Or Glasya's. Nobody even remembers what they are.
Day 1 monestary scaled to level 100 would get me to sub again for like a year by itself
Nah, I want to see Mateus and Hashmal casually vibe check and wipe alliances like they did 8 years ago so latecomers can fully understand why some people then stripped their gear before queuing AR roulette.
King Behemoth doesn't really do anything important that roulettes don't already see, only having a ranged player interact with the towers when they pop up. It's just the usual boulder LOS + tanks point iron giants away from cleaving the group, except it's done a bunch of times. Skipping most of the time spent in the fight in this case is actually a good thing.
This was what i was desperately hoping for. Something harder like patch orbonne but still possible to carry newer players.
CAR phase 1 was the perfect sweet spot. Then p2 starts and completely loses the plot.
I prefer destiny raids to ff non AR ones
Break into the bad guy's house, do a bunch of challenges/ puzzles and bosses. The ff main raids are just some guy on a platform
Yeah; the D1 and some D2 Raids were one of the coolest i have ever seen.
My first ever Destiny raid was Wrath of the Machine in D1 and I was hooked. I only regret not finding the game sooner and jumping in late into Y2.
Honestly I think that the 8 player boss rush model is one of the best things that this game innovated. They’re so much more fun than the slog MMO gameplay from 2008.
But DRS is a thousand times better than BA what
Wow my 2 year old opinions of BA are worthy of a shitpost now? All because I said the most common complaint against Bozja and how they could have made OC a win by making it “Bozja but not ugly”
Didn’t realise I was that collectively hated by the reddit community, i need to stop posting on reddit
Naw you're not hated, I just thought what you said was funny.
Half the people in this thread are clowning me back. Its literally shitpost.
TBH there were a lot of players asking for BA 2 years ago so its really a jab at them.
It just so happened that you had that one guy dig up your old comment and it was easy copy pasta.
Motherfucker no..
Full stop no. The comment specifically mentioned it shouldn't be DRS level hard (honestly DRS is not even fucking hard with simple callouts).
In what angle did you look at the comment and decide "Yeah this guy is asking for FT of all things"
DRS level hard? Give me fucking a break.
For example, the hot/cold in FT is not even a fraction of the difficulty of hot/cold in DRS.
We're 30 levels past StB. Of course we've evolved a little past the in/out orange puddles of BA.
The main reason why players are whinging is personal responsibility. They risk wiping the group if they make a mistake. That still happens in BA btw.
There are literally 2-3 mechs that groups get stuck on in FT. They're not difficult.
I fully expect a lot of the dragon tower stuff to be skipped by most geared groups if there is any incentive to run in 7.5. They need to revise dead trio have skippable mechs so fire tower is skipped with good damage.
Then you've got a raid that a raid lead can call in their sleep.
GOD I HATE LOSING MELEE UPTIME
makes boss hitboxes very large
GOD I HATE HAVING EASY MELEE UPTIME
makes boss mechanics allow melee uptime, but only when done very properly
GOD I HAGE BEING A MELEE, I MIGHT AS WELL JUST PLAY A RANGED PHYSICAL INSTEAD
Forked Tower's great sin is that it forced a bunch of people who think they can handle the easy end of midcore content because they get carried to extreme clears with like five deaths to face the fact that they've actually just been getting carried. It's the same people who thought Golbez Ex was impossibly difficult.
Thing is they will eventually get carried when FT is power creeped in 7.5
Nah, FT:B is going to be dead content in 7.5. The casuals will be running the Normal mode of FT: Magic while the tryhards will be in the hard version.
Yeah actually tbh its very possible this is the case provided they don't incentivize it...
The only reason to do Blood is to get gear, but I suspect they'll either make sanguinite available by some other method or have some other gearing mechanism for the next zone, cuz I don't think they'd require getting gear from Blood...
My only issue is thrice come ruin and the 3 res limit. Have 1 or the other, not both
I also think its bullshit that if everyone in the raid still has lives left but you wipe that you can't reprog the fight with your remaining lives. Its stupid that a chemist has to prep a death/raise in anticipation for a wipe
The very vocal old heads gaslighting the devs into thinking that all the dated mmo jank from eureka was actually peak, and now we got this weird hybrid that doesn't feel as good.
idk if they're even old heads, rather gamers that joined recently and got carried thru BA and don't know what it was like on-patch
https://preview.redd.it/ecl29ede6z9g1.jpeg?width=340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a1c188d7f78e35f566f4e97b40406c01f9c44a7
Swap Pistacio with the 2 Minute Meta and it's golden.
I dream of a day with no group damage buffs and only personals
Holy terminally online to bring up a 2 year old post of a random dude. You keeping track of regular posters on here? Its not even contradictory either. Weird stalker like behavior.
wasn't even me that found it lol
it was just too funny not to share with everyone
Is this how you imagined this going, OP?
The issue is that BA and DRS was just going in for extra, while at least from my perspective it really wants you to hop in and clear it, while making it really hard to make a large enough party to make it in there in the first place, then again i haven't made it to zone 4 of eurika, however i have cleared DRS so i feel like i at least have some level of authority on the subject
Instance prog and getting enough gamers together to do the content is a bit of a hassle, props to the organizers of the discords that handle that, fucking legends that should have a statue of them inside the game
For me, DRS were the best times of 14. Nothing came close to being in the first pug that cleared DRS on Chaos. And farming mats for upgraded judge gear was no less fun.
If Forked Tower revolved entirely around thirce come ruin or things that kill only the people who screw it up it'd be a far better experience. Zero body checks. Entirely on you to do mechanics correctly.
Demon Wall:
Remove all the stack mechanics. Remove the Meteor mechanic.
Replace with gaze mechanics, forced launched into air and forward/backward. Spikes appear on specific sides and you have to be launched into air or have Float cast on you etc.
I would not change a thing with demon wall
Don't fuck with us XIV players, we'll ask for content then when we get it ask who asked for this.
The nasty truth of the matter is that they wanted a mythical difficulty: They want something just hard enough to filter most of the playerbase but just easy enough for them to clear. They don't want actually hard content, they want to be in a secret "in-club" of people who can clear content that most others can't.
Forked is awesome even if the queue system is kinda ass but let's be real, people don't want to play that content, they want to roll through it and any mechanic they can't clear they just wanna be rez-chained until they get to the end.
people are allowed to want actual midcore content, y'know
Is that really such a bad thing? Part of the problem with XIV is there IS no content with that level of difficulty, it's just casual braindead content or hard-core content. The closest thing we have to actual Midcore is Pilgrim's Traverse
I think Savage is actually fine as midcore in terms of the actual difficulty of execution. The big problem is that the kind of difficulty in Savage is not fun or rewarding to engage with. There's basically zero judgement calls to be made and your strategy will never vary based on team comp unless you're doing dumb tank invuln stuff that is usually more effort than it is worth. You just memorize a pattern and resolve it while executing your rotation, the other pattern you have memorized. You clear the fight once and you've cleared it a billion times.
Yes, because half of the "hardcore content" really isn't that hard. Savage is not the ballbusting, spinebreaking expereince people think it is. Forked is not that hard, nor is Chaotic, nor is half the shit they put out there.
People just have this weird perception of any content that's harder than an EX and that they could never handle the EXTREME DIFFICULTY SPIKE of the first floor of savage. Which is sad; The community has gaslit itself into thinking that just because something requires coordination or personal responsibility its too tough for them when they could absolutely do it. And yeah, there will be times where you get an asshole, but that's true of all content in an MMO, not just XIV or harder content.
To the person reading this who has been scared of savage, uninterested of ultimates, quit off quantum, canceled out critirion...I believe in you. You're stronger than you think you are and you're better than you think you are. Get out there and try that content.
https://preview.redd.it/z5dbyicr7z9g1.png?width=329&format=png&auto=webp&s=a120a12c85d963c098329d917e291921f520d089
I assure you for the casual crowd, it is indeed ballbusting. I've even offered to carry my casual friends through, but they nope out after giving an honest try.
"Bro, chess is not hard. Just play like Magnus Carlsen and you'll be a grandmaster."
The average player can't even manage to resolve knockback/draw-in with stacking and spreading if my Doomtrain EX prog is any indicator, there definitely needs to be a middle ground besides EX/Savage
Insane you’re getting downvoted for this. I really think you hit the nail on the head with the in-group analogy. XIV is just highschool all around.
I never wanted a system that would be just good enough for me but to filter those below me so I could feel like I was in some “in club”, I did savage (I stopped because they are never going to fix healers) I just find current BA to be the most enjoyable level of difficulty in the game
That doesn’t mean anyone else has to or that I want people less competant than me to be filtered
Square had there chance to learn from Criterion before committing to FT.
I forgot oc even existed
I mean it’s content basically making discord mandatory so I see no reason to do it