It's ironic, right? They're all patriots and scream how it's the best country in the world and have flags every 2 meters, but nobody actually wants to be american there...
This also comes a lot from those who want to be identified by their race. I think a lot of this comes from all the discrimination around them, so better to be proud of their heritage and ancestry rather than just accept being second class pseudo-citizens. Growing up, the brown kids all called themselves Mexican, before the days of hyphenated "-American" was tacked on. Because really their ancestors were here when the place was still Mexico, and before then when it was Spanish territory, and before then when there weren't Europeans.
Possibly some of this rubs off on the generici whites, who also want an identity of sorts (I say generic, because so few are actually 100% from a single European country).
The reality is for most who want to be "European", that their ancestors culture may not be what they think. Early colonists were the undesirables, indentured servants, prisoners, offshoot sects, etc. Later immigrants were generally poor and desperate enough to emigrate somewhere else. Almost certainly they weren't putting up Christmas trees and eating plum pudding.
Nothing wrong with loving your Ancestry mate but I don't care what colour you're. If you're born in the U.S. you're all Americans. Nothing wrong with that dude
The reality is for most who want to be "European", that their ancestors culture may not be what they think. Early colonists were the undesirables, indentured servants, prisoners, offshoot sects, etc. Later immigrants were generally poor and desperate enough to emigrate somewhere else. Almost certainly they weren't putting up Christmas trees and eating plum pudding.
Hence the sheer number who claim to be descended from royalty or something. It's genuinely astounding that so few Americans can grasp this.
I always wondered why? Its interesting when you think about it 🤔 either your extremely proud to be MURICAN and stop telling us how proud of italy you are or mentioning your italian every other day and disgustingly messing up words like cappacolo to gabagool i mean how on earth do you make that assumption
Americans are so used to infiltrating every community on the internet, that they can't compute when they can't join some part of the world, so they get even more stubborn about it. It's the whole Americans are the pinnacle of humanity, that's what they were taught in school and grew up believing, how can it even be possible that they can't just walk into wherever they want?
i wanna go a step further and say yes Italian-american(or whatever else X-american) are legit sub-cultures but they are AMERICAN sub-cultures.
they took influence from another countrys culture decades if not centuries ago but that culture has since itself changed the sub-culture hasn't changed with it but with american culture. that doesn't make it less valid or anything but it does mean it's not really related to the parent culture in the modern world anymore.
All of my maternal grandparents’ parents immigrated to the US in the late 1800s/early 1900s (3 as children and one as an adult). My grandmother loved to talk about family history as she understood it and was proud of the family’s immigration story & heritage but she always bristled if she heard a family member say they were xyz nationality and was quick to correct them by saying that we are Americans of xyz descent.
Thank you ive been trying to explain it over here in the US
I raised in the US and born back in Albania but heavily raised in the culture traditions know how to read and write Albanian and Italian even went to school for a couple years in albania when i was 16 and even ill say im not as intergrated in Albania as Albanians that where raised theyre
Since ive was raised in NYC ive met alot of Americans who say theyre "italian" "irish" "albanian" who dont speak,read or write in any of the language dont know the traditions dont take the time to learn about they ancestors that theyre so "proud" of and love gloating about
I can’t understand why if they are always shouting how great it is to be American and we europoors are not worth a shite .
Then the next minute they are telling us they are four of five fractions making out of a quilt of patches of europoorness .
Then in the next second they hate migrants .
And America is great and they are American , I’m like , dude Viking was a trade . .
Fancy regional dresses that people used to wear for holidays in rural communities 100 years ago.
Some years ago, an American asked my mother (from Wales) why she didn't wear historic Welsh costume. The answer is that (a) she never had, (b) we lived in England and (c) that it isn't actually that historic, with the hats being invented around 1840. She presumably thought that women in Wales walked around in it.
It's a good job that she didn't discover that Gook hats were a traditional item of female clothing in the part of Devon I moved to and grew up in.
I love when they come to Ireland and expect John Wayne and carts ,horses ,then they get stuck on the M50 for a couple of hours in traffic and realise we don’t all drive teeny cars either 😂
I like my M50 after this lot goes home ,
Not necessarily 100s of years ago. When I was a kid I used to collect dolls that were dressed in cultural costume. I assumed it to be historic. But in about 1990 we went to Loctudy in France, where I was surprised to see several women wearing it. They were just going about their day to day business, hanging out washing, etc. I was surprised.
Well, 1990 was a long while ago. My step mother suggested these particular ladies were wearing it because they were in mourning. She could be wrong though.
I’d say a long more than 100 years cause the last time when I was a teen I worn one of those and I was given a book about it to get the thing right .
So late 1700 to 1800 century.
I hope you were wearing your fazzoletto when you wrote this otherwise, you have no credibility as an 'Italian'. I myself am currently shifting my léine out of the way so I must be authentic 👍
Like this is a people who come here and wear sweatpants and hoodies to go out at night and that’s the women .
I’m like , what ?
No self respecting Irish woman goes to the pub on a night out with the clothes that you would be wearing home doing the washing or some other shite
That made me chuckle. I'd be curious to know what the English cultural fashion is supposed to be. And whether the person who said it goes around wearing it, since it's so clearly part of their identity.
Big time 😂😂 gammons falling for Farage who couldn’t give two rats asses about them and going full on racist to stupid flag shagging so called protests to intimidate people and act the maggot
Well, for some Americans it's those big black hats with buckles on and big black cloaks, for others it's chaps and cowboy hats. All Americans dress this way all the time, even today, obviously.
Well there are very very old regional garments , some festivals and dances and stuff .
But seriously , with them asking the question? Lord only knows 😂😂
I'm pretty sure we Europeans, no matter what country will still have a much better knowledge and grasp of our cultures and traditions, than any larping something-American. Even if only by a simple virtue of speaking our own native languages. All our idioms, sayings, music, literature based on our own languages, and all the nuances that come with them, will always make us understand them better than some far removed yankees with 10% DNA, alongside their bastardised ideas of what our heritage should be.
Not to mention that we Europeans aren't stuck in time. Our cultures evolve constantly, shaped by the various factors throughout the time.
Also, bold to say about the Italians not speaking their own regional dialects. Especially from someone who often claims they have no accent.
You absolutely have no idea and ability to differentiate and recognise the regional dialects of European countries, because you don't even speak our languages to begin with.
You can get your passport in the embassy at Ottawa, but you need to actually move to France to get the baguette, the French don't allow the good stuff to leave their borders.
Which you would, obviously, know if you were French. So no passport for you either.
LOL from what I heard, French people do not even consider Quebecois French to be real French. A colleague of mine from France used to tell me that he couldn't listen to Quebecois with a straight face, because it sounded too ridiculous.
Remember when everything was going to to shit in our own countries and those losers who couldn’t hack it boarded ships and left for pastures new, they’re Americans now and they want to be one of us again…
The trouble is most Americans have never set foot outside the USA. And a good portion of those who have, are disappointed that other countries aren't just like the USA.
Or quite simply are trapped in what their grandpa/grandma who came from Italy as a child told them, to he fair.
I mean, there is some likelihood that the 90-year-old grandma from Italy saw her parents dressed in 'traditional clothing' and stuff like this - it might have been the case, in the year of the lord 1899 give or take.
My traditional dress is a black hoodie, should I give back my Italian passport? (i also can't cook for shit, but that's a whole different story).
I saw something similar on a supposedly "Latino" forum.
Some idiot posted a meme mocking Latin Americans who were "gatekeeping" Latinos in the US for not being "real" Latinos.
It's like, dude, you're not Latino. You've lived your whole life in the US. You have Mexican grandparents? Great, but you're not Latino, you're an American with Latino ancestry. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're not Latino.
Well, also Americans with Italian ancestry don't do any of those things, besides maybe be Catholic.
Worth noting that being Italian was never strictly identified with being Catholic, despite what Americans think. We are not Irish, Greeks or Poles who used their faith as a distinct trait against foreign rulers and as nationality markers. Our foreigner rulers were also Catholic (the Austrians and before them the Spaniards). Not to mention, that Italian unification was done and later carried against the Catholic Church. It's no coincidence that in the period when Catholicism was out of the public life, Italy had three Jewish prime ministers (in a period of intense antis3mitism across Europe).
Exactly, at the end of the day uber-Catholicism is just another preconception Americans have of Italianess.
Three Jewish Prime Ministers; one of whom technically only had a Jewish father who converted to Protestantism, and another who was a life-long secularist who had a Masonic funeral.
In any case very much not Catholic.
Add to that so many cultural icons who were atheists or non-belivers.
Leopardi, De André, Pasolini, Calvino, Fo, Eco, Ginzburg, C & P Levi, Pavese, Giuseppe fucking Verdi, the list goes on and on and on.
Literally who's considered the greatest Italian poet since Dante, arguably the greatest singer-songwriter of the 20th century, arguably the greatest director, multiple candidates for greatest 20th century writer.
Things Italians think of as actual culture, which as a rule Americans couldn't care less about.
True that. Because their ancestors were mostly from the rural South, they think all of Italy is some sort of mega Catholic land and was always like this.
For sure Catholicism is an important part of Italian culture and I can easily make a list of cultural icons on par with yours who were Catholic and whose faith is part of their work, but the point is that reducing Italy to being Catholic was never true.
The problem with American concepts of Italian, or Irish or Scottish (etc) culture is that they seem to believe it should be frozen in a small time window (probably the time their great great grandfather left), rather than acknowledging that language, customs and clothing changes over time. The culture they’re imagining was also not the “original” Italian culture either.
Of course, they wouldn’t know this, because they don’t live in Italy.
The only question to ask in all of these cases is: Were you born in Italy or of born in Italy parents? You're Italian. Simple as that. That also applies to Ireland, Poland, Mexico or whatever the fuck they want to cosplay.
If anyone is gatekeeping them, is the bureaucrats who issue birth certificates.
I mean, I'm deeply tired of people telling me that a parmesan cheese can't be called "Parmesan" unless it was crafted in the parma region by someone who doesn't live in that region, or care about any of the other cultural preservation of Parma beyond cheese. I don't think you need to be a Culture Nazi, but if you're going to be one, you don't get to be a Culture Nazi selectively.
Americans are already famously bad at geography, so why are they obsessed with having ancestry from countries they all know from stereotypes, but can’t place on a map
Fashion, language, religious believes and food all EVOLVE WITH TIME. It’s only Americans that are obsessed with heritages that have been abandoned (usually times for the better) for 100 years
Isn't their an argument that there isn't any regional dialects of Italian and its just a bunch of different languages that stems from Latin that just happen to be spoken in what is now modern Italy?
Weird take but I think one should only tell US people "you are not xx" when they brag. Like the guy who pretended he was a Viking or the one who was more Irish than people in Ireland.
Any other situations: there's someone in the past who made a difficult trip looking for a better future or even for just a future and I feel like on you are not born in France, Italy or Poland but let's pretend and wink at your grandpa
No, if they claim to be xyz and don't speak the language, don't have the passport and aren't born to parents which migrated from xyz then they are only descendants of migrants from xyz. They can claim to be xyz Americans when they have someone in their family who was raised by xyz national or if all of their family and majority of social and cultural contacts share descendants from xyz. That's how migration creates subcultures within a new country. Sometimes those migrant cultures have an exchange with their culturally origin, but this isn't much the case for countries and cultures seperated by oceans.
The Italian culture has developed independently of the Italian-American subculture which is practically assimilated into the American culture by this time.
Not gatekeeping, just trying to explain that you’re American; not Italian, or Irish, or whatever ancestry you’re so desperate to get your claws into.
It's ironic, right? They're all patriots and scream how it's the best country in the world and have flags every 2 meters, but nobody actually wants to be american there...
Most likely they treat the American identity as some kind of blank, default state. It's simply not enough for them.
Even if you're born in the US speak perfect English. If you're not white you're treated according to your race lol what a weird place 😂
This also comes a lot from those who want to be identified by their race. I think a lot of this comes from all the discrimination around them, so better to be proud of their heritage and ancestry rather than just accept being second class pseudo-citizens. Growing up, the brown kids all called themselves Mexican, before the days of hyphenated "-American" was tacked on. Because really their ancestors were here when the place was still Mexico, and before then when it was Spanish territory, and before then when there weren't Europeans.
Possibly some of this rubs off on the generici whites, who also want an identity of sorts (I say generic, because so few are actually 100% from a single European country).
The reality is for most who want to be "European", that their ancestors culture may not be what they think. Early colonists were the undesirables, indentured servants, prisoners, offshoot sects, etc. Later immigrants were generally poor and desperate enough to emigrate somewhere else. Almost certainly they weren't putting up Christmas trees and eating plum pudding.
Nothing wrong with loving your Ancestry mate but I don't care what colour you're. If you're born in the U.S. you're all Americans. Nothing wrong with that dude
Hence the sheer number who claim to be descended from royalty or something. It's genuinely astounding that so few Americans can grasp this.
Yesh that’s another one , scratching me head trying to get this …
I always wondered why? Its interesting when you think about it 🤔 either your extremely proud to be MURICAN and stop telling us how proud of italy you are or mentioning your italian every other day and disgustingly messing up words like cappacolo to gabagool i mean how on earth do you make that assumption
I was stunned the first time I heard someone use "gatekeeping" for this stuff.
It's like if I went round claiming to be tall, when I'm 5'5", people pointed out that I'm literally not, then I accused them of gatekeeping tallness.
It's so ridiculous that it's hard not to see it as deliberate, calculated victim-playing and obfuscation, but I think they actually believe it.
This is the first time I've seen it. It makes no sense.
I've been wondering recently whether people in the US claiming to be Irish, Italian, or whatever, could be accused of cultural appropriation.
Americans are so used to infiltrating every community on the internet, that they can't compute when they can't join some part of the world, so they get even more stubborn about it. It's the whole Americans are the pinnacle of humanity, that's what they were taught in school and grew up believing, how can it even be possible that they can't just walk into wherever they want?
It's cognitive dissonance.
i wanna go a step further and say yes Italian-american(or whatever else X-american) are legit sub-cultures but they are AMERICAN sub-cultures.
they took influence from another countrys culture decades if not centuries ago but that culture has since itself changed the sub-culture hasn't changed with it but with american culture. that doesn't make it less valid or anything but it does mean it's not really related to the parent culture in the modern world anymore.
Wait till they offer to cook you “real Italian recipe 😂 And out comes jars , boxes and cans
I agree.
All of my maternal grandparents’ parents immigrated to the US in the late 1800s/early 1900s (3 as children and one as an adult). My grandmother loved to talk about family history as she understood it and was proud of the family’s immigration story & heritage but she always bristled if she heard a family member say they were xyz nationality and was quick to correct them by saying that we are Americans of xyz descent.
Thank you ive been trying to explain it over here in the US I raised in the US and born back in Albania but heavily raised in the culture traditions know how to read and write Albanian and Italian even went to school for a couple years in albania when i was 16 and even ill say im not as intergrated in Albania as Albanians that where raised theyre
Since ive was raised in NYC ive met alot of Americans who say theyre "italian" "irish" "albanian" who dont speak,read or write in any of the language dont know the traditions dont take the time to learn about they ancestors that theyre so "proud" of and love gloating about
I can’t understand why if they are always shouting how great it is to be American and we europoors are not worth a shite . Then the next minute they are telling us they are four of five fractions making out of a quilt of patches of europoorness . Then in the next second they hate migrants . And America is great and they are American , I’m like , dude Viking was a trade . .
WTF is "dressing in their cultural fashion"?
Fancy regional dresses that people used to wear for holidays in rural communities 100 years ago.
Some people really cannot see the difference between cosplaying an idealised and disneyfied 'culture' and living it said culture as it exists today.
Some years ago, an American asked my mother (from Wales) why she didn't wear historic Welsh costume. The answer is that (a) she never had, (b) we lived in England and (c) that it isn't actually that historic, with the hats being invented around 1840. She presumably thought that women in Wales walked around in it.
It's a good job that she didn't discover that Gook hats were a traditional item of female clothing in the part of Devon I moved to and grew up in.
Plus, the word "costume" is a big clue.
They love a reenactment 😂
I love when they come to Ireland and expect John Wayne and carts ,horses ,then they get stuck on the M50 for a couple of hours in traffic and realise we don’t all drive teeny cars either 😂 I like my M50 after this lot goes home ,
They complain that we’re stuck in the past and then complain when we’re not dressing like we did in the past…..
Not necessarily 100s of years ago. When I was a kid I used to collect dolls that were dressed in cultural costume. I assumed it to be historic. But in about 1990 we went to Loctudy in France, where I was surprised to see several women wearing it. They were just going about their day to day business, hanging out washing, etc. I was surprised.
They were wearing the lacy headdresses?
Yep. The whole caboodle.
Wow. I've never see the headdresses outside of festivals.
Well, 1990 was a long while ago. My step mother suggested these particular ladies were wearing it because they were in mourning. She could be wrong though.
I’d say a long more than 100 years cause the last time when I was a teen I worn one of those and I was given a book about it to get the thing right . So late 1700 to 1800 century.
I have chain mail, plate armor and a sword, its ok as regional dress?
Btw: make capes and cloaks great again
Probably something like this. Hilarious to hear that we need to be a cliché straight out of the XIX century to conform their standards of italianness.
I guess it checks the lame tropes you see peppered in escapist yankee movies like eat,pray and love.
Can't your country just be a nice, cliché-laden, kitschy theme park?
Eh, some parts of the country are almost there, except the traditional clothing.
Dress like this.
https://preview.redd.it/0uwa4g2uhf6g1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d61f7f11ee11005696a539abde112a120a892c4
Probably dressing like some (often non-accurate) historical cliché, eg. Dutch women should walk around like Frau Antje.
Which is ironic, since Americans don't walk around like they just disembarked from the Mayflower.
don't forget the wooden clogs. You're not a real Dutchie, if you're not wearing them on your way to your tulip field or watermill.
I hope you were wearing your fazzoletto when you wrote this otherwise, you have no credibility as an 'Italian'. I myself am currently shifting my léine out of the way so I must be authentic 👍
The Dutch can get pretty annoyed over the tulip issue .
Like this is a people who come here and wear sweatpants and hoodies to go out at night and that’s the women . I’m like , what ? No self respecting Irish woman goes to the pub on a night out with the clothes that you would be wearing home doing the washing or some other shite
🤷🏻♂️
https://preview.redd.it/0jfjbjq4wf6g1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71548198847054501703ba0277a4d3c14eddc802
Wondering that myself. But they do mostly dress like adults, which is foriegn to the average American.
I don’t think he means Armani
Toga?
Togas?
Collard shirt and sweatpants like on the sopranos
Get me some muzzrell and gabagool.
That made me chuckle. I'd be curious to know what the English cultural fashion is supposed to be. And whether the person who said it goes around wearing it, since it's so clearly part of their identity.
Everybody knows this is the only and unquestionable real English cultural fashion.
Oh goody. I'm the perfect representative of historical Britain then.
Looks like the guy in the background is about to test historical gravity.
Nah, the guy in the background has just booked an all inclusive week to Benidorm, so he's practising for the balconing Olympics
I see!
Nah, too bright. Walk through the streets of Blackpool and you'll see a sea of grey.
that's just the cloud of despair, misery and weed smoke surrounding them.
From a European perspective (and is scarily accurate in some places), but Americans think we all wear waistcoats and tweed.
All dressed up as morris dancers. Bells optional.
It's interesting that English traditional costume seems to only be associated with Morris Dancing. Did everyone used to dance their way everywhere?
'Bells optional'. How else would they annoy the blind too?
Good point.
Currently ? You don’t want to know 😂😂😂 If you have a facebook account I suggest taking a look at a group called “ Tegan delete this FFS“ 🤦
On my way to Facebook...
Is hilarious 🏴🏴🏴🏴
Well that's a rabbit hole!
Big time 😂😂 gammons falling for Farage who couldn’t give two rats asses about them and going full on racist to stupid flag shagging so called protests to intimidate people and act the maggot
Indeed. The side of life I keep well away from.
Tangenting a little: I've never really understood what is meant by calling someone a gammon.
It’s an insult to do with the colour of their red faces when they get too excited , dressed as a Night in a St. George flag 😂
Oh is that all! That explains why it's used to cover a broad spectrum of people.
Well, for some Americans it's those big black hats with buckles on and big black cloaks, for others it's chaps and cowboy hats. All Americans dress this way all the time, even today, obviously.
Wearing red or green suspenders and jumping on sentient mushrooms.
Frozen in time at the point of emigration of one of those Italian/German/Polish etc. ancestors I guess.
Versace , Prada , Valentino ? 😂😂😂
Well there are very very old regional garments , some festivals and dances and stuff . But seriously , with them asking the question? Lord only knows 😂😂
Wouldn’t it great if the delegates of the United Nations went to work in their national dress..
MOST ITALIAN IS CAN'T SPEAK
they talk with their hands 🤌🤌
Can confirm, we can't even type, we just wave our hands at the phone/computer.
I'm pretty sure we Europeans, no matter what country will still have a much better knowledge and grasp of our cultures and traditions, than any larping something-American. Even if only by a simple virtue of speaking our own native languages. All our idioms, sayings, music, literature based on our own languages, and all the nuances that come with them, will always make us understand them better than some far removed yankees with 10% DNA, alongside their bastardised ideas of what our heritage should be.
Not to mention that we Europeans aren't stuck in time. Our cultures evolve constantly, shaped by the various factors throughout the time.
Also, bold to say about the Italians not speaking their own regional dialects. Especially from someone who often claims they have no accent.
You absolutely have no idea and ability to differentiate and recognise the regional dialects of European countries, because you don't even speak our languages to begin with.
Coming from an American that almost certainly cannot speak a single ounce of italian, is particularly amusing.
Let alone spell English properly:
MOST ITALIANS IS CAN'T...
No Italian? What about "parmejhaaaaan"
My ancestors came to Canada from France in 1644.
Where's my damn French passport and my baguette?
You can get your passport in the embassy at Ottawa, but you need to actually move to France to get the baguette, the French don't allow the good stuff to leave their borders.
Which you would, obviously, know if you were French. So no passport for you either.
LOL from what I heard, French people do not even consider Quebecois French to be real French. A colleague of mine from France used to tell me that he couldn't listen to Quebecois with a straight face, because it sounded too ridiculous.
Talk about gatekeeping 😂😂😂
Yup, each time I go to Paris I have to clean up my accent and expressions otherwise they all think I’m a barbarian from the countryside.
So pretty much how most English people don't consider 'Merican to be English.
It's Mirror not meer, Graham not Gram, Craig, not creg, Roof not ruf etc...
When an American invites you to watch a ‘whore film’, it’s not what you think.
If you can't answer 'yes' to even one of these questions, I don't think that it's honest to claim to be part of insert culture.
Thanks, I’m stealing this test
Like we're gatekeeping a hobby of dressup and manners.
"dress in cultural fashion"
Okay ... So may I assume Americans all walk around dressed cultural appropriate, i.e.. like they just disembarked from the Mayflower?
Remember when everything was going to to shit in our own countries and those losers who couldn’t hack it boarded ships and left for pastures new, they’re Americans now and they want to be one of us again…
Not to mention they celebrate not being European every July.
This is the most annoying sort of stuff those idiots say. Holly crap.
"Nationalities are gatekept by definition."
Of all people, Americans should understand that. They would go ballistic if any foreigner tried to tell them they're not truly American.
Trouble is that Americans are trapped in the past
The trouble is most Americans have never set foot outside the USA. And a good portion of those who have, are disappointed that other countries aren't just like the USA.
edit - corrected typo
Or quite simply are trapped in what their grandpa/grandma who came from Italy as a child told them, to he fair.
I mean, there is some likelihood that the 90-year-old grandma from Italy saw her parents dressed in 'traditional clothing' and stuff like this - it might have been the case, in the year of the lord 1899 give or take.
My traditional dress is a black hoodie, should I give back my Italian passport? (i also can't cook for shit, but that's a whole different story).
We'll explain it once more.
- My ancestors were Europeans.
- I am an American from European descent.
All good.
- I am European.
Only good when you have a passport from a European country.
We Italians learn first the dialect of our city than Italian…
It is always funny how they supposedly know more about us than… us.
London LMAO 🤣 fucken hell
I saw something similar on a supposedly "Latino" forum.
Some idiot posted a meme mocking Latin Americans who were "gatekeeping" Latinos in the US for not being "real" Latinos.
It's like, dude, you're not Latino. You've lived your whole life in the US. You have Mexican grandparents? Great, but you're not Latino, you're an American with Latino ancestry. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're not Latino.
Do they think that every nation should be frozen in carbonite?!
Well, also Americans with Italian ancestry don't do any of those things, besides maybe be Catholic.
Worth noting that being Italian was never strictly identified with being Catholic, despite what Americans think. We are not Irish, Greeks or Poles who used their faith as a distinct trait against foreign rulers and as nationality markers. Our foreigner rulers were also Catholic (the Austrians and before them the Spaniards). Not to mention, that Italian unification was done and later carried against the Catholic Church. It's no coincidence that in the period when Catholicism was out of the public life, Italy had three Jewish prime ministers (in a period of intense antis3mitism across Europe).
Exactly, at the end of the day uber-Catholicism is just another preconception Americans have of Italianess.
Three Jewish Prime Ministers; one of whom technically only had a Jewish father who converted to Protestantism, and another who was a life-long secularist who had a Masonic funeral.
In any case very much not Catholic.
Add to that so many cultural icons who were atheists or non-belivers.
Leopardi, De André, Pasolini, Calvino, Fo, Eco, Ginzburg, C & P Levi, Pavese, Giuseppe fucking Verdi, the list goes on and on and on.
Literally who's considered the greatest Italian poet since Dante, arguably the greatest singer-songwriter of the 20th century, arguably the greatest director, multiple candidates for greatest 20th century writer.
Things Italians think of as actual culture, which as a rule Americans couldn't care less about.
True that. Because their ancestors were mostly from the rural South, they think all of Italy is some sort of mega Catholic land and was always like this.
For sure Catholicism is an important part of Italian culture and I can easily make a list of cultural icons on par with yours who were Catholic and whose faith is part of their work, but the point is that reducing Italy to being Catholic was never true.
The problem with American concepts of Italian, or Irish or Scottish (etc) culture is that they seem to believe it should be frozen in a small time window (probably the time their great great grandfather left), rather than acknowledging that language, customs and clothing changes over time. The culture they’re imagining was also not the “original” Italian culture either. Of course, they wouldn’t know this, because they don’t live in Italy.
Mind numbingly ignorant wankers.
Why are you American if you don't wear cowboy boots and hats? Tsk. Those fake Americans...
And obviously, you have to be a practicing Catholic...
The only question to ask in all of these cases is: Were you born in Italy or of born in Italy parents? You're Italian. Simple as that. That also applies to Ireland, Poland, Mexico or whatever the fuck they want to cosplay.
If anyone is gatekeeping them, is the bureaucrats who issue birth certificates.
I mean, I'm deeply tired of people telling me that a parmesan cheese can't be called "Parmesan" unless it was crafted in the parma region by someone who doesn't live in that region, or care about any of the other cultural preservation of Parma beyond cheese. I don't think you need to be a Culture Nazi, but if you're going to be one, you don't get to be a Culture Nazi selectively.
Please screenshot and post the comments about cities in France!
Yup, each time I go to Paris I have to clean up my accent and expressions otherwise they all think I’m a barbarian from the countryside.
Americans are already famously bad at geography, so why are they obsessed with having ancestry from countries they all know from stereotypes, but can’t place on a map
Well that is a giant load of bollocks.
They're so desperate.
Fashion, language, religious believes and food all EVOLVE WITH TIME. It’s only Americans that are obsessed with heritages that have been abandoned (usually times for the better) for 100 years
I am sure this zub is a parody...it can't all be true
Isn't their an argument that there isn't any regional dialects of Italian and its just a bunch of different languages that stems from Latin that just happen to be spoken in what is now modern Italy?
Weird take but I think one should only tell US people "you are not xx" when they brag. Like the guy who pretended he was a Viking or the one who was more Irish than people in Ireland.
Any other situations: there's someone in the past who made a difficult trip looking for a better future or even for just a future and I feel like on you are not born in France, Italy or Poland but let's pretend and wink at your grandpa
No, if they claim to be xyz and don't speak the language, don't have the passport and aren't born to parents which migrated from xyz then they are only descendants of migrants from xyz. They can claim to be xyz Americans when they have someone in their family who was raised by xyz national or if all of their family and majority of social and cultural contacts share descendants from xyz. That's how migration creates subcultures within a new country. Sometimes those migrant cultures have an exchange with their culturally origin, but this isn't much the case for countries and cultures seperated by oceans.
The Italian culture has developed independently of the Italian-American subculture which is practically assimilated into the American culture by this time.
My brain says you are right but my heart says you are heartless and to not listen to you
That video is staged btw.