I DON'T KONW GERTRUDE, SHE IS SO UNGRETAFUL YOU DID SO MUCH FOR HER, THE GENERATION NWO IS SO AWFUL, KEEPING THE PRECIOUS GRINDCHILD FROM YOU IS SO CRIMINAL. YOU SHOULD TAKE HER OUT OF YOUR WILL, SHE DOESN'T DESVERE ONE CENT 😎 👍
Narrator: they abused her, gaslit her, and threw her out of the house when she was 16. She is now successful with money and children that she does not allow them to see, and doesn't need anything from their will to survive.
So, I don't know the back story, but this reminds me of a friend's mom's rant at Christmas. She was saying that her cousin isn't allowed to see her grandkids at Christmas because she's not "in the boundaries." She said the wife's parents are allowed to visit, since they are "in the boundaries." And her friends are allowed to see the kids, because they're also "in the boundaries." But the husband's parents (friend's mom's cousin) are not "in the boundaries." She was appealed because husband's mom made the kids things for some holiday, and the wife said "just drop it off on the porch, I'll get it" and didn't let her come in.
I kept asking okay, but what are the boundaries? What rules have they broken? But she kept acting like the boundary was a physical space you're either in or out of, and not rules you should respect.
I asked if the husband's mother had asked ahead of time if she could bring something over. If she checked to see when it was a good time. But she just kept saying "on the porch! She told her to leave it on the porch! How ungrateful!"
They just don't get it. They think you should let them do absolutely anything.
There’s a good chance the boundaries were very clearly laid out for her awhile ago and she stomped all over them. But admitting that now wouldn’t make her sound like the victim.
Having lived with those grandparents as their own parents, they are certainly in a position to know better than anyone else. Any court should give them the benefit of the doubt.
If your parents live in the same city as you and actively want to look after your kids the only reason not to let them is good reasons(like even if we arent talking full abuse just unwilling to follow the parents wishes)
Not necessarily. We almost had to pursue legal means to keep contact with my niblings after my sister died and the kids' father married a controlling abuser.
We were not able to protect the kids nearly as much as they needed, but we gave them as much love as we could, and they moved to us as soon as they were 18.
Which isnt the context i was talking about.
While yes there are other situations. I was manly talking about the grandparents of a couple thats still together. Adding in a step parent or other things can definitely make things more complicated.
Sure but I'd argue it's pretty rare to have "perfect grandparents" that's kids ended up going no contact.
They might think they are appropriate and loving but people rarely go no contact without reasons. Now there are definitely shitty parents out there that dont want to deal with their own parents.(but id argue their parents likely had some part in why they are shitty if they were part of their life)
Like the situation you described isnt grandparent alienation. But is instead the cutting off of outside help thst is prevalent in abusive relationships.(making it so you can only rely on the abusive partner)
My brother's in-laws are separated from their son and grandkids because of his spouse who has gotten him to cut off his entire family. Maybe there's more behind the scenes, the grandparents certainly aren't perfect, but from what I've seen there's not really a reason to go full no-contact with the entire family. So, it can happen even if it's a rare case.
This and I’d venture to guess that grandparents who are unfairly kept from their grandchildren can name actual, real reasons (drugs, abusive partner, etc.) because they don’t need to use this made up shit as an excuse
"Who wants to tell them?" You can't tell a narcissist anything. And the grandparents cohort is absolutely packed with narcissists.
I could be the parent that the OOP says has DTD. Maybe if they want to be in their grandkids' lives, they could consider respecting a boundary? YOU did this to you, Dad.
Well, someone who isn't a good person or a good person who's so sheltered they think rain is fictional. But honestly, the difference is largely academic.
Someday I hope collectively we relearn the difference between privileges and rights. Whole lot of older/elderly people behaving like toddlers who just got told no.
laughs in mental health professionalfirst of all, tell me you don’t know what the codes in the DSM refer to without telling me. Secondly, how can a disorder be BOTH recognised in the DSM, and unrecognised by professionals?
Nvm the first part, I’m the one who got the codes confused… thought they were ICD codes but they weren’t.
Not to defend this, but I assume they're switching between definitions of the word "recognized," first using it to mean "agreed upon by medical research and consensus as a disorder that exists," and then to mean "noticed and diagnosed in specific patients."
Which is either clumsy language, or deliberately weaselly.
It's the standard game from these people. They're the exact same people who told their children "If yo don't respect me, I won't respect you." The first respect meaning "accept and follow my commands" and the second meaning "treat you with equality and compassion."
That does make sense. I think it’s stuff like this that contributes to a lot of cultural and political clashes. The definition of words becomes fuzzy or casual to the lay person. We develop ways of talking that become fact - like how many people have you heard say “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.” We are bombarded with hot takes and pseudo science all the time. We are less able to communicate because we don’t share the same language or situational definitions.
Also, it's not called "Delusional Thinking Disorder" and so is not abbreviated to DTD. I can only assume that they inserted the "thinking" bit in there so that the abbreviation could be reframed as referencing Donald Trump, because this is very clearly a MAGA thing.
Not wanting to subject your children to idiots and assholes does not constitute evidence of delusion, by the way.
It's not a maga thing, it's about adults who cut parents out of their lives, and said parents not understanding why (it's usually narcissism or abuse by the parent) and wanting back in when their adult child has kids of their own.
That's the best part. A whole other layer of the crazy cake for this.
Delusional Disorder DSM-5 297.1 (F22)
Delusional disorder is one of the less common psychotic disorders, in which patients have delusions but not the other classical symptoms of schizophrenia (thought disorder, hallucinations, mood disturbance or flat affect).
A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite evidence disproving it that is stronger than any evidence supporting it.
In other words, these cult members are accusing others of being fully delusional and anti-grandparent.
Yep, there’s always a way for the mind to conjure up an explanation that fits the narrative of the delusion. Challenging their thinking doesn’t work for those with delusion disorder.
I made a mistake, I thought they were ICD codes. ICD stands for International Classification of Diseases, which is a coding manual for ALL diseases (including psychiatric ones). It’s a common alternative to the DSM.
This is pretty common. Often people in this situation will say they don't know why they were cut off, but they actually know exactly why. I spent some time a while back reading the articles on this website (about estranged parents, not grandparents) and it was fascinating.
Lol. Yep. The missing "missing piece." They can be told point blank in terms that are in no way ambiguous, and still claim cluelessness. According to my MIL I'm a manipulative monster who stole her son from her and I'm totally the reason that at the age of 40 he decided to cut her off. Definitely didn't have anything to do with her constantly ignoring boundaries and having the emotional depth of a puddle.
For those who care: Delusional Thinking Disorder is not listed in the DSM-V. It's just Delusional Disorder. As far as I can tell, no version of the DSM has ever called it DTD.
DD patients are not typically mentally unbalanced or compromised. A lack of functional impairment beyond the scope of the delusion is a hallmark of the disorder. For instance, a person may believe that their neighbor is a spy who listens in on their phone conversations, which could give them trouble at work if they refuse to discuss sensitive topics over the phone, but they are otherwise competent to perform their job functions and care for themselves or their dependents.
Really, DD is a catchall diagnosis for patients who hold delusional beliefs not caused by substance use or medical conditions, but who don't meet the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or psychotic mood disorders. Very few people receive this diagnosis.
Also, a delusion is not merely an untrue belief, no matter how firmly held. Delusions are fixed beliefs held despite clear contrary evidence. In other words, in order to say their children are delusional, alienated grandparents would have to supply clear evidence that they are harmless and can be trusted.
For instance, they could avoid diagnosing their children with mental disorders or calling them unfit parents on Facebook.
There are caveats that I didn't mention, because I didn't want to overcomplicate it. Religious and cultural attitudes aren't considered delusions, even if they meet the narrow definition. Neither are beliefs based on mutual trust (children believing in Santa Claus, for instance). Delusions, as part of a mental illness, are personal and individual.
Shared delusions do exist, but only in rare circumstances where small groups of people with similar mental illnesses form close relationships, and their delusions happen to coincide and feed off of one another. Such relationships are usually unstable, and the shared delusions will almost always diverge over time. (I think the Illuminati is stealing my salad dressing out of the fridge, but you keep trying to convince me it's the Freemasons. We're can't be friends any more, because you're obviously part of the conspiracy.)
During the time of slavery white, slave owning, pukes just couldn't understand why enslaved people kept running away. So they created a "mental disorder" that compelled all their "happy" slaves to run away.
That kind of thinking has always been endemic on the right. Nobody could ever has an honest difference of opinion because that could lead to *gasp* introspection. No, everyone who disagrees with a right winger is clearly "insane". You see it all the time in what passes for discourse.
My roommate’s mom currently thinks I kidnapped them. My roommate has basically told her that they don’t want to talk to her, over and over again, and every time it’s always deflected to accusations on how I am somehow holding them against their will. The only reason they haven’t straight up cut contact is because their mother is withholding their vital paperwork like their birth certificate.
It’s a little bit of a pain, but you can order replacement birth certificates from your state of birth. I had to do that for a job a few years ago because my mom couldn’t find mine
Anyone can order a copy of their own birth certificate. They just have to know what county they were born in. I don't remember it being difficult or expensive when I did it (granted a long time ago now).
And here to your left, you can observe a group of estranged older individuals ranging from rude and unpleasant to abusive as they join together to built a bunker of denial, glued together by cognitive dissonance. Such a social arrangement is often referred to as an Echo Chamber.
You'll notice that the outer walls are reflective - that's their communal defense mechanism. Being quite fragile but genuinely believing otherwise - this is a natural side effect of relying on cognitive dissonance as their most precious natural resource - the colony that's been formed here trains themselves to regularly look at their own reflections and practice a spiritual and mental transference. They visualize those outside the colony in place of their own selves, and they believe that if they act out their previously committed sins during this time, those bad deeds will rise from THEIR bodies and possess the bodies of their enemies instead.
Ironically, these "enemies" are the colony's TRUE source of enrichment and sustainable life. And so the colony tries to both attract and repel outsiders simultaneously. This is how they achieve an overabundant supply of cognitive dissonance - they create the perfect conditions to grow it, and this space just outside their barracks is often used as a battlefield, a social stage, and a farmstead.
... sad but fascinating creatures. Several poets have likened them to ants choosing to create and participate in a death spiral.
2016 - what an “interesting” year for this particular “delusion” to have taken off and start dividing families… I wonder if anything happened to trigger such divisisions becoming more common…? (Shock horror, much surprise! /s)
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“I diagnosed my adult child with a mental illness based on a Facebook post. Why don’t they want to spend the holidays with me???”
I DON'T KONW GERTRUDE, SHE IS SO UNGRETAFUL YOU DID SO MUCH FOR HER, THE GENERATION NWO IS SO AWFUL, KEEPING THE PRECIOUS GRINDCHILD FROM YOU IS SO CRIMINAL. YOU SHOULD TAKE HER OUT OF YOUR WILL, SHE DOESN'T DESVERE ONE CENT 😎 👍
THOTS AND PRAERS WITH YOU ETHEL GOBBLESS LOL
WERE HAVING BAGELS TONITE!
Narrator: they abused her, gaslit her, and threw her out of the house when she was 16. She is now successful with money and children that she does not allow them to see, and doesn't need anything from their will to survive.
You forgot the part where you tell them to sue their kids for visitation rights
grindchildren.
Nearly perfect, but too much punctuation and too few emojis.
It was hard enough to misspell words and use those emojis, it physically hurt lol
I have, since their time of origin, never used an emoji and never plan to. Therefore I commend your commitment to verisimilitude.
Holy shit, this is a perfect replica of the typical FB post.
God damn, you’re a wizard Harry!
On a slightly tangental argument. Once children are adults, obligations from them.to.parents and from parents back are voluntary.
Children dont have a debt of gratitude and parents (and grandparents) can decide to leave their goods in their will to the cats home.
In most cases of course there is bonds of love and mutual support but its not mandatory in either direction.
So, I don't know the back story, but this reminds me of a friend's mom's rant at Christmas. She was saying that her cousin isn't allowed to see her grandkids at Christmas because she's not "in the boundaries." She said the wife's parents are allowed to visit, since they are "in the boundaries." And her friends are allowed to see the kids, because they're also "in the boundaries." But the husband's parents (friend's mom's cousin) are not "in the boundaries." She was appealed because husband's mom made the kids things for some holiday, and the wife said "just drop it off on the porch, I'll get it" and didn't let her come in.
I kept asking okay, but what are the boundaries? What rules have they broken? But she kept acting like the boundary was a physical space you're either in or out of, and not rules you should respect.
I asked if the husband's mother had asked ahead of time if she could bring something over. If she checked to see when it was a good time. But she just kept saying "on the porch! She told her to leave it on the porch! How ungrateful!"
They just don't get it. They think you should let them do absolutely anything.
There’s a good chance the boundaries were very clearly laid out for her awhile ago and she stomped all over them. But admitting that now wouldn’t make her sound like the victim.
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
“Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional” is the kind of take I might expect from a page like this.
I’m sure some grandparents are unfairly kept from their grandkids. But I bet the majority of parents who do this do it for good reason.
Having lived with those grandparents as their own parents, they are certainly in a position to know better than anyone else. Any court should give them the benefit of the doubt.
If your parents live in the same city as you and actively want to look after your kids the only reason not to let them is good reasons(like even if we arent talking full abuse just unwilling to follow the parents wishes)
Not necessarily. We almost had to pursue legal means to keep contact with my niblings after my sister died and the kids' father married a controlling abuser.
We were not able to protect the kids nearly as much as they needed, but we gave them as much love as we could, and they moved to us as soon as they were 18.
Which isnt the context i was talking about. While yes there are other situations. I was manly talking about the grandparents of a couple thats still together. Adding in a step parent or other things can definitely make things more complicated.
Agreed. I was just defending the concept of "grandparent alienation" as a thing that can happen to grandparents despite being loving and appropriate.
Sure but I'd argue it's pretty rare to have "perfect grandparents" that's kids ended up going no contact.
They might think they are appropriate and loving but people rarely go no contact without reasons. Now there are definitely shitty parents out there that dont want to deal with their own parents.(but id argue their parents likely had some part in why they are shitty if they were part of their life)
Like the situation you described isnt grandparent alienation. But is instead the cutting off of outside help thst is prevalent in abusive relationships.(making it so you can only rely on the abusive partner)
My brother's in-laws are separated from their son and grandkids because of his spouse who has gotten him to cut off his entire family. Maybe there's more behind the scenes, the grandparents certainly aren't perfect, but from what I've seen there's not really a reason to go full no-contact with the entire family. So, it can happen even if it's a rare case.
Haven't you heard? It's the new way of arguing.
Don't like Trump? Sounds like you have Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Think we should accept and celebrate our differences? Sounds like you have the Woke Mind Virus.
This and I’d venture to guess that grandparents who are unfairly kept from their grandchildren can name actual, real reasons (drugs, abusive partner, etc.) because they don’t need to use this made up shit as an excuse
This whole thing goes off the premise that the grandparents are never in the wrong. A take someone who isn't a good person would have.
"Who wants to tell them?" You can't tell a narcissist anything. And the grandparents cohort is absolutely packed with narcissists.
I could be the parent that the OOP says has DTD. Maybe if they want to be in their grandkids' lives, they could consider respecting a boundary? YOU did this to you, Dad.
Well, someone who isn't a good person or a good person who's so sheltered they think rain is fictional. But honestly, the difference is largely academic.
Someday I hope collectively we relearn the difference between privileges and rights. Whole lot of older/elderly people behaving like toddlers who just got told no.
Lol the boomers decided to just kill us all instead since they can't imagine a world where they aren't in control
A lot of people think they deserve respect (beyond the base level that almost everyone deserves) just because they’re old.
laughs in mental health professional
first of all, tell me you don’t know what the codes in the DSM refer to without telling me.Secondly, how can a disorder be BOTH recognised in the DSM, and unrecognised by professionals?Nvm the first part, I’m the one who got the codes confused… thought they were ICD codes but they weren’t.
Best practice is woke, you wouldn’t understand
Not to defend this, but I assume they're switching between definitions of the word "recognized," first using it to mean "agreed upon by medical research and consensus as a disorder that exists," and then to mean "noticed and diagnosed in specific patients."
Which is either clumsy language, or deliberately weaselly.
It's the standard game from these people. They're the exact same people who told their children "If yo don't respect me, I won't respect you." The first respect meaning "accept and follow my commands" and the second meaning "treat you with equality and compassion."
That does make sense. I think it’s stuff like this that contributes to a lot of cultural and political clashes. The definition of words becomes fuzzy or casual to the lay person. We develop ways of talking that become fact - like how many people have you heard say “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.” We are bombarded with hot takes and pseudo science all the time. We are less able to communicate because we don’t share the same language or situational definitions.
It looks like “M.A., min” is a ministry degree.
That's because the DSM is written by God, much like the Bible. Of course those godless psychologists would try and discredit the word of God.
Also, it's not called "Delusional Thinking Disorder" and so is not abbreviated to DTD. I can only assume that they inserted the "thinking" bit in there so that the abbreviation could be reframed as referencing Donald Trump, because this is very clearly a MAGA thing.
Not wanting to subject your children to idiots and assholes does not constitute evidence of delusion, by the way.
It's not a maga thing, it's about adults who cut parents out of their lives, and said parents not understanding why (it's usually narcissism or abuse by the parent) and wanting back in when their adult child has kids of their own.
lol oh yeah, it was such a glaringly obvious thing I forgot to dignify that 😅
Oh do tell, what do the codes refer to?
That's the best part. A whole other layer of the crazy cake for this.
Delusional Disorder DSM-5 297.1 (F22)
Delusional disorder is one of the less common psychotic disorders, in which patients have delusions but not the other classical symptoms of schizophrenia (thought disorder, hallucinations, mood disturbance or flat affect).
A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite evidence disproving it that is stronger than any evidence supporting it.
In other words, these cult members are accusing others of being fully delusional and anti-grandparent.
Yep, there’s always a way for the mind to conjure up an explanation that fits the narrative of the delusion. Challenging their thinking doesn’t work for those with delusion disorder.
I made a mistake, I thought they were ICD codes. ICD stands for International Classification of Diseases, which is a coding manual for ALL diseases (including psychiatric ones). It’s a common alternative to the DSM.
Amazing. "Grandparent alienators" is so much longer than "my child who hates me", and yet, somehow they can only use one...
This is pretty common. Often people in this situation will say they don't know why they were cut off, but they actually know exactly why. I spent some time a while back reading the articles on this website (about estranged parents, not grandparents) and it was fascinating.
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/
Lol. Yep. The missing "missing piece." They can be told point blank in terms that are in no way ambiguous, and still claim cluelessness. According to my MIL I'm a manipulative monster who stole her son from her and I'm totally the reason that at the age of 40 he decided to cut her off. Definitely didn't have anything to do with her constantly ignoring boundaries and having the emotional depth of a puddle.
It’s missing reasons not piece, leave shel Silverstein out of this /j
Holy shit! Down the rabbit hole indeed.
For those who care: Delusional Thinking Disorder is not listed in the DSM-V. It's just Delusional Disorder. As far as I can tell, no version of the DSM has ever called it DTD.
DD patients are not typically mentally unbalanced or compromised. A lack of functional impairment beyond the scope of the delusion is a hallmark of the disorder. For instance, a person may believe that their neighbor is a spy who listens in on their phone conversations, which could give them trouble at work if they refuse to discuss sensitive topics over the phone, but they are otherwise competent to perform their job functions and care for themselves or their dependents.
Really, DD is a catchall diagnosis for patients who hold delusional beliefs not caused by substance use or medical conditions, but who don't meet the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or psychotic mood disorders. Very few people receive this diagnosis.
Also, a delusion is not merely an untrue belief, no matter how firmly held. Delusions are fixed beliefs held despite clear contrary evidence. In other words, in order to say their children are delusional, alienated grandparents would have to supply clear evidence that they are harmless and can be trusted.
For instance, they could avoid diagnosing their children with mental disorders or calling them unfit parents on Facebook.
So...everyone who stayed republican after 2017?
There are caveats that I didn't mention, because I didn't want to overcomplicate it. Religious and cultural attitudes aren't considered delusions, even if they meet the narrow definition. Neither are beliefs based on mutual trust (children believing in Santa Claus, for instance). Delusions, as part of a mental illness, are personal and individual.
Shared delusions do exist, but only in rare circumstances where small groups of people with similar mental illnesses form close relationships, and their delusions happen to coincide and feed off of one another. Such relationships are usually unstable, and the shared delusions will almost always diverge over time. (I think the Illuminati is stealing my salad dressing out of the fridge, but you keep trying to convince me it's the Freemasons. We're can't be friends any more, because you're obviously part of the conspiracy.)
My heart goes out to all the grandkids who are pathologized like this. I hope they’re thriving
During the time of slavery white, slave owning, pukes just couldn't understand why enslaved people kept running away. So they created a "mental disorder" that compelled all their "happy" slaves to run away.
That kind of thinking has always been endemic on the right. Nobody could ever has an honest difference of opinion because that could lead to *gasp* introspection. No, everyone who disagrees with a right winger is clearly "insane". You see it all the time in what passes for discourse.
Really? Id be interested to read up on that if you have any source.
Sounds kind of made up though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania
Granny Smith throwing the copyright information on that self-incriminating word vomit is the cherry on top for me.
"Better let everyone know this work of genius is mine and mine alone!"
r/Boomersbeingfools
My roommate’s mom currently thinks I kidnapped them. My roommate has basically told her that they don’t want to talk to her, over and over again, and every time it’s always deflected to accusations on how I am somehow holding them against their will. The only reason they haven’t straight up cut contact is because their mother is withholding their vital paperwork like their birth certificate.
It’s a little bit of a pain, but you can order replacement birth certificates from your state of birth. I had to do that for a job a few years ago because my mom couldn’t find mine
We don’t live in the US, we could probably still do that but there’s also other paperwork that she has that unfortunately cannot be replaced
Anyone can order a copy of their own birth certificate. They just have to know what county they were born in. I don't remember it being difficult or expensive when I did it (granted a long time ago now).
Guessing this is a MAGAT...
tour guide voice
And here to your left, you can observe a group of estranged older individuals ranging from rude and unpleasant to abusive as they join together to built a bunker of denial, glued together by cognitive dissonance. Such a social arrangement is often referred to as an Echo Chamber.
You'll notice that the outer walls are reflective - that's their communal defense mechanism. Being quite fragile but genuinely believing otherwise - this is a natural side effect of relying on cognitive dissonance as their most precious natural resource - the colony that's been formed here trains themselves to regularly look at their own reflections and practice a spiritual and mental transference. They visualize those outside the colony in place of their own selves, and they believe that if they act out their previously committed sins during this time, those bad deeds will rise from THEIR bodies and possess the bodies of their enemies instead.
Ironically, these "enemies" are the colony's TRUE source of enrichment and sustainable life. And so the colony tries to both attract and repel outsiders simultaneously. This is how they achieve an overabundant supply of cognitive dissonance - they create the perfect conditions to grow it, and this space just outside their barracks is often used as a battlefield, a social stage, and a farmstead.
... sad but fascinating creatures. Several poets have likened them to ants choosing to create and participate in a death spiral.
2016 - what an “interesting” year for this particular “delusion” to have taken off and start dividing families… I wonder if anything happened to trigger such divisisions becoming more common…? (Shock horror, much surprise! /s)
"They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats!" (Eat the dogs, eat eat the cats!)
Copyrighted to a person with a Master of Arts degree. Seems legit.
Who the fuck writes "MA" after their name?
I'm just really glad they copyrighted this.