The alternative of having completely wrong or malicious comments upvoted just because they were first seems far more harmful in my opinion. Facebook and instagram comments are a cesspool for this reason.
If theres no downvotes, then lack of upvotes is the same as a downvote...or instead of just downvoting, people just argue and/or lie more in replies with comments.
You arent seeing the mechanics of how it works, just your reaction to it.
Though there is some overlap, upvotes and downvotes are not like and dislike buttons. Upvotes generally move things up, downvotes generally move things down, thats why they are called up and down votes. The community decides what posts should be higher on a subreddit, and which lower, and vote accordingly. Same for comments within a thread.
The purpose of a downvote is not to be toxic. Its used to clean up spam, low quality content, troll posts, etc. So if you remove downvotes, youre going to see ore spam.
It doesnt make sense to remove something that does good things, just because some people will use it for bad. By that logic, just remove everyone's ability to post or comment at all.
if your upset a comment got downvoted on reddit, youd be just as upset that it didnt get upvotes on some site without downvotes, stuff the community doesnt like goes down, stuff they like goes up. Its generally going to end up in the same place either way...its just downvoting is good because it lets the community reject spam and other unwanted bad stuff more quickly.
bottom line is you just dont agree with the community on some things. You might not be wrong, i do too. But the downvoting isnt the problem, its just that the crowd sucks.
How do you fix the problem but avoid abuse entirely that is caused by that problem in a public forum like reddit?
The answer is you don't.
You can't.
Unless that is precisely what it is designed to do when the user base is too small for enough bad actors to hop in and make the entire system fall apart from the seams.
🤔
Like the US government in some kind of way.
Because that system does the same thing on a fundamental level:
Reward "correct" opinions through democracy but with karma instead of currency.
But..
All this loses meaning when the community is moderating themselves for no other reason than fun because reddit can't afford to do it on a scale without bankrupting themselves.
So the system was entirely flawed from the get go.
Just like capitalism.
Because we will never trust anyone more than those who think or act like us.
Tribalism, essentially.
Only way to hold people accountable is to lose anonymity entirely.
Which is precisely the reason why people use this site.
It creates the conditions to create echo chambers where opposition to minority ideas, which are a subset of the main idea, can be buried in an instant and ignored entirely.
Or.
Just make everyone stop having the ability to make subreddits and enhance search functionality to find topics you are interested in that people who might also see that post can jump in to provide a third party perspective.
🥱
Liberalism v Conservativism
Same people.
Same actual poverty.
Same distrust for government but in differing amounts/ways.
Entirely different philosophical foundations to solve this.
🤔
The underlying issue causing this is Western culture and the emphasis on individuality over collective interests.
So basically a screaming contest to determine who is actually "correct" instead of thinking why both could possibly be so simultaneously.
🤔
An absolute nightmare for a nerd to even fathom if they don't understand psychology and sociology enough to design an even better system to control all this.
Because privacy is expected but not entirely reasonably achievable because all this data is considered public knowledge.
🤷♂️
So we either hold people accountable in real life for awful ideas or let them fester if they're small enough to contain themselves.
🤔
With concepts like morality, ethics, equality, liberty, etc.
So the societal foundation has to change drastically to incentivize this across an entire population.
Like the East did when Confucius showed up.
🤔
If he even invented the concept of collectivism anyway because that shit is what we had to do before as many different small tribes to even get here in the first place.
I value the downvotes highly. It makes reddit a better place for information than twitter. Often shit comments and posts do get downvoted into oblivion.
I'm with you, downvotes are incredibly toxic and this post has just reinforced your point. Now this thread has been buried and those who actually want a site w/o downvotes won't see this, which is exactly why I hate it. Anything that isn't aligned with the hive mind is removed from conversation. People just love their echo chambers unfortunately.
I'm only here because some guy on ProgrammingHumor complained about how everyone on reddit is just negative all the time and caught -630 downvotes for that. This place has turned into a cesspool and I'm looking for an out as well. If I find something I'll edit this post.
https://beehaw.org/ has downvotes disabled
Cool, thanks
The alternative of having completely wrong or malicious comments upvoted just because they were first seems far more harmful in my opinion. Facebook and instagram comments are a cesspool for this reason.
Then sort by comments that has least dislikes.. downvote is not needed
Uh what.. if dislike/downvote is not needed, then how do you sort by least downvotes?
I said downvote is not needed Can you quote me where I said dislike is not needed?
Can you explain the difference between a downvote and a dislike, and how that difference will make a site better?
I recommend this post it's good for learning
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/9Q6C6WUv7t
It's a reddit sitewide rule not to use downvote button as a disagree button
Youtube doesnt count dislikes on comments its just an empty button
[deleted]
Now people think that their shitty opinions have no pushback since it only shows likes
It doesnt make a difference, really.
If theres no downvotes, then lack of upvotes is the same as a downvote...or instead of just downvoting, people just argue and/or lie more in replies with comments.
Clearly, taking away a persons ability to be toxic and manipulative makes a difference. How is that not self evident?
Obviously they will use other methods to be manipulative and toxic, but it shouldn't support by the platform itself.
You arent seeing the mechanics of how it works, just your reaction to it.
Though there is some overlap, upvotes and downvotes are not like and dislike buttons. Upvotes generally move things up, downvotes generally move things down, thats why they are called up and down votes. The community decides what posts should be higher on a subreddit, and which lower, and vote accordingly. Same for comments within a thread.
The purpose of a downvote is not to be toxic. Its used to clean up spam, low quality content, troll posts, etc. So if you remove downvotes, youre going to see ore spam.
It doesnt make sense to remove something that does good things, just because some people will use it for bad. By that logic, just remove everyone's ability to post or comment at all.
if your upset a comment got downvoted on reddit, youd be just as upset that it didnt get upvotes on some site without downvotes, stuff the community doesnt like goes down, stuff they like goes up. Its generally going to end up in the same place either way...its just downvoting is good because it lets the community reject spam and other unwanted bad stuff more quickly.
bottom line is you just dont agree with the community on some things. You might not be wrong, i do too. But the downvoting isnt the problem, its just that the crowd sucks.
Typical gaslighitng. I can see why you like the current system.
All while denying what is blatant and obvious just from this post.
This person is entirely correct though.
How do you fix the problem but avoid abuse entirely that is caused by that problem in a public forum like reddit?
The answer is you don't.
You can't.
Unless that is precisely what it is designed to do when the user base is too small for enough bad actors to hop in and make the entire system fall apart from the seams.
🤔
Like the US government in some kind of way.
Because that system does the same thing on a fundamental level:
Reward "correct" opinions through democracy but with karma instead of currency.
But..
All this loses meaning when the community is moderating themselves for no other reason than fun because reddit can't afford to do it on a scale without bankrupting themselves.
So the system was entirely flawed from the get go.
Just like capitalism.
Because we will never trust anyone more than those who think or act like us.
Tribalism, essentially.
Only way to hold people accountable is to lose anonymity entirely.
Which is precisely the reason why people use this site.
It creates the conditions to create echo chambers where opposition to minority ideas, which are a subset of the main idea, can be buried in an instant and ignored entirely.
Or.
Just make everyone stop having the ability to make subreddits and enhance search functionality to find topics you are interested in that people who might also see that post can jump in to provide a third party perspective.
🥱
Liberalism v Conservativism
Same people.
Same actual poverty.
Same distrust for government but in differing amounts/ways.
Entirely different philosophical foundations to solve this.
🤔
The underlying issue causing this is Western culture and the emphasis on individuality over collective interests.
So basically a screaming contest to determine who is actually "correct" instead of thinking why both could possibly be so simultaneously.
🤔
An absolute nightmare for a nerd to even fathom if they don't understand psychology and sociology enough to design an even better system to control all this.
Because privacy is expected but not entirely reasonably achievable because all this data is considered public knowledge.
🤷♂️
So we either hold people accountable in real life for awful ideas or let them fester if they're small enough to contain themselves.
🤔
With concepts like morality, ethics, equality, liberty, etc.
So the societal foundation has to change drastically to incentivize this across an entire population.
Like the East did when Confucius showed up.
🤔
If he even invented the concept of collectivism anyway because that shit is what we had to do before as many different small tribes to even get here in the first place.
Its easy enough to ignore argument generators like yourself. Just like is easy to ignore garbage platforms like reddit.
I agree with you entirely...
So why have you been using it?
Just make your own website or start a discord server
🤷♂️
I value the downvotes highly. It makes reddit a better place for information than twitter. Often shit comments and posts do get downvoted into oblivion.
its your hell. enjoy it.
Sorry if you are blind to the benefits of the downvote.
I'm with you, downvotes are incredibly toxic and this post has just reinforced your point. Now this thread has been buried and those who actually want a site w/o downvotes won't see this, which is exactly why I hate it. Anything that isn't aligned with the hive mind is removed from conversation. People just love their echo chambers unfortunately.
I'm only here because some guy on ProgrammingHumor complained about how everyone on reddit is just negative all the time and caught -630 downvotes for that. This place has turned into a cesspool and I'm looking for an out as well. If I find something I'll edit this post.
Thank you, that would be much appreciated.
Agreed
of course they downvoted you. this site is such a cesspool.
So true