This subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message of the propaganda. Here we should be conscientious and wary of manipulation/distortion/oversimplification (which the above likely has), not duped by it. "Don't be a sucker."
Stay on topic -- there are hundreds of other subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. No partisan bickering. No soapboxing. Take a chill pill. "Don't argue."
For context, because everyone doesn't know how Haïti was made an example of by the French to deter other carribean island colonies to seek independance or to free their slaves :
The Haitian independence debt (French: Dette d'Indépendance Haïtienne) involves an 1825 agreement between Haiti and France that included France demanding an indemnity of 150 million francs in five annual payments of 30 million to be paid by Haiti in claims over property, including Haitian slaves, that was lost through the Haitian Revolution in return for diplomatic recognition.
Haiti was forced to take a loan for the first 30 million, and in 1838 France agreed to reduce the remaining debt to 60 million to be paid over 30 years, with the final payment paid in 1883. However, according to a 2022 The New York Times analysis, because of other loans taken to pay off this loan, the final payment to debtors was actually made in 1947.
I agree that the US claim is bogus and "justice" for international oil firms (poor guys) is clearly one of the last thing motivating the Trump administration... It it were so, they wouldn't just blatantly break the law by stealing foreign oil cargos in foreign waters.
Yes, but with a dozen asterisk because the UK invaded Iran twice (both World Wars( between the D'Arcy Concession and the 1952 nationalization. Iran also renegotiated the deal when Reza Shah took over in the 1920s.
With Iran D'Arcy had to find the oil in Khuzestan province compared to the fact that the oil was known to be there in Venezuela. Iran's nationalization was also done entirely within Iran, while Venezuela specifically signed deals saying they agreed to international arbitration in case of nationalization. Meaning the international courts said they had no jurisdiction in Iran while they do because it was specifically agreed to in Venezuela.
The alliance the Venezuelan opposition has with the USA and Israel is an "enemy of my enemy" situation.
Nicolas Maduro has an alliance with the governments of Russia and Iran, who are opposed to the USA and Israel.
Russia even sent the Wagner mercenaries to aid in quelling the protests over the election fraud of 2024.
The Wagner group was then sent again to train the Venezuelan army in case of an invasion by the USA.
The proximity between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin makes things complicated.
Some conspiracy theorists say that Trump and Putin will have some sort of trade, where the USA will sacrifice an ally (Ukraine) in exchange for Russia to sacrifice an ally (Venezuela).
Your post uses Venezuelan government data so no, it’s not accurate. they literally listed their sources to be state sponsor government news. https://macedoniadelnorte.com now even beside that every leader in South America has asked for at least a recount because they do not believe that maduro won.
It wouldn't surprise me that Putin just openly switch to full far right endorsement and support as they gain more influence worldwide. The whole "anti-imperalist decolonialism" schtick has its use, but it's so opposite to Putin's actual ideology, he probably doesn't want to carry it to victory.
I think it is more profitable for Putin to remain looking for support both among the far-right and the anti-imperialists, like he does.
Basically, if they do what he wants them to do, it doesn't matter to Putin WHY they say they do it.
He doesn't really need to, because the contradictions don't seem to cause him any problems. His supporters simply can't hear him when he says things they don't like, and they can't hear each other.
If it still existed he could probably send Wagner Group to support Rhodesia while also supporting Traoré and co. with surprisingly little effect on Russia's international reputation.
Russia has a very long and prosperous history with Israel.
They've signed agreements not to arm each other's rivals, have done extensive military technology deals, have visa free travel, Netanyahu and Putin are close on a personal level, Netanyahu features photos of him and Putin in ads for his last campaign, Israel has remained neutral on Ukraine, Russia remains Israel' main supplier of oil, Russia 's Google equivalent, Yandex, subsidizes a computer science school in Israel through University of Tel Aviv, 12% of the Israel voting base are Russian speaking.
Politically the US has to go so hard for Israel because Russia is always waiting with arms wide open.
Our government pretty much entered a geopolitical protection racket with them, being the biggest countries that will collude with the regime in exchange for just enough to stay afloat- and in return for propping it up, they essentially treat my country like their personal gold mine.
I don't support Trump either, but everything you people accuse the United States of these countries have already been doing for decades now.
People are going to be very surprised when they find out about Nicolas Maduro's alliance with Vladimir Putin.
Russia even sent the Wagner mercenaries to Venezuela to aid in suppressing protests and training the army.
Lmao, taking back their resource rights from a bunch of dipshit fat cats isn’t robbing “us” it’s robbing the dipshit fat cats. Do those boots taste clean yet?
My favorite venezuelan propaganda experience was attending an international school in argentina and having an influx of rich venezuelans enroll after Chavez started doing his thing and hearing the parents rant about how evil he was when I was just trying to enjoy an arepa. Not to say they were wrong, but I never considered how one sided my view of Chavez was for a long time (I still think he sucks tho)
I know they are separate people, but Chavez chose Maduro as his successor, and no where did I imply they are a representation of the venezuelan people. And its not lost on me that American imperialism has put south American countries in an impossible position of either basically being an American client state or using authoritarian techniques to avoid a US lead coup from turning them into one. Saying one is bad doesnt mean the other that hasnt been mentioned yet is good, and its a boring ass response to pretend it does.
Because fascism is more of a left-wing ideology than many people like to admit. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany had more in common with the USSR than they did with capitalist democracies.
Ok but like high heel boots were made for cavalry but that doesn't mean new york fashion week is a military parade lol. Thats just not how culture works, things change and adapt in both form and meaning.
Do you have knowledge about the Material conditions of Venezuela before the arrival of Chavez and events such as the Caracaso wich were crucial for Chavez's arrival to the Miraflores Palace in 1998?
Because I feel that "everything he did + Maduro dumb" isn't a well defined response and too simplistic for a dislike of a Nation's leader especially one that was and is in crisis
One word: better. Which isn’t hard to tell. And yes calling him stupid is very accurate, anyone who understands Spanish would know that Maduro is an international clown. That man is barely literate.
Your view of him is accurate, though. "One-sided" would imply that Chávez and his countries have their own point of view that makes this entire situation grey rather than black and white- but no, he really was a corrupt scam artist who robbed Venezuela blind while pimping it out to other dictatorships after he twisted the nation enough that it's now pretty much ruled by a gang using a government body as their front.
Source: I'm Venezuelan, and not a wealthy one at that. Those either sided with the regime or left after it became clear they had to leave lest the Chavistas expropriated everything they had.
You are resorting to an appeal to irrelevant authority fallacy, I've met various Chavists from Venezuela and your argument would also make theirs equally valid
I do not want to invalidate your personal experience but saying "Im venezuelan" doesn't directly make you an expert on the history and material conditions of your nation, neither would Chavists, unless they have studied it, I would reccomend you to find sources and studies to sustain your claims rather than base them all in your nationality, again this is not an attack just a quick advice
The weird part is I don't feel like they're even trying to manufacture consent. They're just rolling with it and counting on the support of the MAGA base being extremely inelastic.
Maduro stopped following the requirements for elections
He did not stop following any 'requirement'. Venezuelan elections are still the most internationally monitored. And no country has to follow any 'requirements' for its elections from anyone else.
They werent. Over 200 international monitors monitor those elections. The American ones' claims isnt worth mentioning next to those.
And the funniest thing: Nobody has to justify their elections to any foreign country. The US doesnt do it despite all the conflict, fraud, and even coup attempts. The US satellites dont do it, despite they outright ban opposition parties when they are about to win. Therefore all this 'election!' talk about Venezuela is just doublespeak.
The requirements were the ones he fucking agreed to!
Maduro's government and the opposition reached an agreement in Barbados on Tuesday on electoral guarantees for an internationally monitored vote to be held in the second half of 2024. But the deal stopped short of Maduro agreeing to reinstate opposition candidates who had been barred from public office.
So yes, he does have to follow requirements he agreed to or he has do deal with sanctions, as per the agreement. It’s a pretty simple concept.
No government has to agree to anything with the opposition outside the law. Especially with an openly foreign backed opposition that sought to overthrow it multiple times. The government followed the Venezuelan law and that is enough. The US election landscape is sh*ttier, and yet nobody says it needs to be sanctioned.
The starvation is due to shit management. Libya was a socialist oil-state and they were the most developed country in Africa, even after starting beef with NATO.
Libya literally collaborated with the West to the extent that Sarkozy had corrupt dealings with the Libyan government. Multinationals had been operating oil wells in Libya unimpeded. There was no nationalization of oil like Chavez did.
Sarkozy was not in power until the late 2000s. During the anti-western period in the 80's and 90's Libya was doing relatively well considering the sanctions.
Also consider that in 2023, 50% of Venezuelas exports were to the US and the US sent 205 Million dollars of foreign aid in 2024.
That's not relevant. Even if some major politician is not in power, he is still part of that establishment and he takes part in the dealings of that country and its elite.
90's Libya was doing relatively well considering the sanctions.
Venezuela has also been doing fine considering the sanctions, all the way since Chavez's time. It delivered 1.5 million houses to the poor, it created communes that neighborhoods in cities run, it provided education to the masses. But none of those gets mentioned.
Libya's successes started to get mentioned only after Gaddafi was killed. Otherwise, ~15 years ago, people were talking about Libya how you now talk about Venezuela. The 'dead socialist' syndrome of the Anglo west - living socialists get vilified, dead ones sanctified.
Whether or not people were talking about Libya's success, it still was happening. Not everything is the US government's fault, many governments just suck. Also I will repeat that the US bought 50% of Venezuelas exports recently and sent 200 million in foreign aid.
Yes Sarkozy not being in power at that time does matter lol.
Only if you have no idea about politics or are naive. For those who follow politics, even who will get 'elected' a few cycles later are obvious.
Venezuela has not been doing fine considering the sanctions. Yes, the government prior to Chavez was also really bad.
Yes, through a decade of economic warfare, embargo and piracy by the US.
40% of Venezuelans are food insecure.
Indeed - when a hostile country gets its lackeys like Colombia or Panama literally confiscate ships carrying food to your country, you end up 'insecure'.
...
Again, all of this is the same talk that people have been doing back in 2003 before the Iraq war, in 2011 before Libya, in 2015 before Syria. None of what you say is new: "US enemy is evil for * reasons *". Just shows how susceptible you are to propaganda.
Lmao, sure buddy, keep telling yourself that Venezuela has good management. Everything is the US's fault. The fact that the US buys 50% of Venezuela's exports and sends them hundreds of millions in foreign aid, we will just conveniently ignore. Keep telling yourself that youre immune to propaganda.
Yeah and shockingly not every Venezuelan is on the same page because an entire nation existence isn't soley devoted to being a talking point for Yankee Imperialism
You clearly didn't read the original comment I was replying to. Any Venezuelan that has escaped in one way or another knows how terrible it is to live there, to the point of doing slave labor here in some south American countries to scrape by knowing they have it better there than back home.
The starvation is a feature for the Maduro regime. People who are starving don't have the energy to overthrow the government. There's plenty of foreign aid that could have gone to Venezuela but they have been blocking it for years.
Not justifying any of Trumps actions btw, I just don't think there are any good government leaders in this interaction.
Similar to this, Trump going to war against the Ayatollah did give the Ayatollah some support on the Internet.
And the son of the deposed Shah of Iran trying to ally with Israel to take his family's throne caused progressive people in the West to magically remember the Shah was a tyrant, after DECADES of progressives in the USA and Europe praising the Shah as an "Enlightend Despot" or a "progressive ruler".
I work with allot of venezuelans and they all really hope usa will engage. They feel like it will be the only way for them to have a chance to return and be able to live there
I have no skin in the game. Im not american or venezuelan. All i am saying is what my coworkers say, the only venezuelans i know. And they clearly want maduro out, no matter the price
It is quite easy to want war in your country when you are not in the country itself. If war is to happen I wonder how many will happily return and remain in the ruins of the country without even considering the fact there will be a worsening of the refugee crisis.
Stop treating other nationalities as minor or your pets, Venezuelans are entitled to think and wish what they want, ironically it’s Americans telling them what is better for them when they say that they shouldn’t ask for military intervention. They tried to play the socialist game and once again they lost, yes, Americans owning oil companies works better than corrupt military leaders doing so, what a shame an oil company can’t be managed democratically like the communist religion says. So you are expecting Venezuelans to fight in disadvantage when the government has the military and the organized crime on their side? Venezuelans have fled the country in the millions and at this rate 50 years are going to pass and you’re going to have the next ruins of Latin America after Cuba.
Lo que esta demostrado que después de mas de 500 años de independencia no sois capaces de gobernarnos solos. Ni uno solo de los países sudamericanos va bien. Solo sabéis montar carteles y guerrillas
Si america decide haceros una colonia, arrodillarse y dar las gracias
Vete a la mierda como tú ídolo Paquito, que además el motivo por el que esas tierras están como están es porque cada vez que levantan cabeza el tío Sam se la rompe.
Y que quinientos años de independencia ni que niño muerto? Si la independencia la ganaron en el siglo XIX. Abre un libro de historia, pedazo de animal.
Cállate, mamawebo comunista lamebotas. Nadie cree que "esto vaya a ser distinto", pero de igual manera llevamos 26 años bajo una dictadura que dejó nuestro país hecho una mierda y no duda en masacrar a mi gente si nos atrevemos a molestarnos por ellos.
Que tú seas un pendejo apologista de dictadores porque vives sintiendo rabia contra los Estados Unidos no es nuestro problema. Por desperdicios de oxígeno analfabeta y arrogante como tú es que los tiranos siempre prosperan, todos tenemos que sufrir solo para que un excremento sin confianza como tú pueda sentirse como el héroe de la historia.
Que cojones hay que tener para llamar a otros lamebotas cuando le estás suplicando al país que apoya al 74% de las dictaduras del mundo que invada al tuyo.
Antes de llamar a alguien analfabeto aprende un poco de historia, vendepatrias patético, y mira como acabaron Iraq, Siria, Afghanistan y Líbia después de que los yanquis los "liberaran". También puedes mirar lo que hicieron los pedazo de animales en toda América durante la operación Cóndor, pero eso ya será demasiado esfuerzo para un mentecato como tú.
That gold belongs to the Indigenous communities in the Americas, and Maduro has been trying to insert himself into Venezuela's for the sake of seizing that gold.
For what's perhaps the first time ever, Britain is doing a favor to Native folks by ensuring that their riches won't be stolen by a corrupt dictatorship who drove his country (In which I live) through the mud for over two decades now.
Apart from being the wrong publication, Man of the Year never meant appraisal. It meant that a person had a big effect on the world, which can't be denied for Hitler and Stalin (or Trump for that matter).
This subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message of the propaganda. Here we should be conscientious and wary of manipulation/distortion/oversimplification (which the above likely has), not duped by it. "Don't be a sucker."
Stay on topic -- there are hundreds of other subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. No partisan bickering. No soapboxing. Take a chill pill. "Don't argue."
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Just say 'Exxon Mobil'.
Actually I think it more so Chevron in this case.
Chevron still has a share in the Venezuelan oil as far as I know.
They do, that’s why I think it would be beneficial to them cause they already have a hand in the honey pot.
Chevron and Citgo have exclusive rights to tap Venezuelan oil fields.
The government of Venezuela owes them about a billion dollars.
https://www.steptoe.com/en/news-publications/steptoe-secures-major-victory-for-exxonmobil-in-venezuela-asset-seizure-case.html
EDIT addition sources:
https://globalarbitrationreview.com/article/exxon-enforces-icsid-award-against-venezuela
https://www.law360.com/amp/articles/2393357
No they don't. It's what a nationalization is.
I provided a link, why reply if there are facts that contradict what you believe?
you provided a link to the website of a law firm that represents Exxon Mobil
Only because it was the only non paywalled site. It’s also a literal press release
If you can bypass a paywall take your pick:
https://globalarbitrationreview.com/article/exxon-enforces-icsid-award-against-venezuela
https://www.law360.com/amp/articles/2393357
How about Exxon just returns the oil?
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"Their" property....hmm...how did they get rights to it over the people of that country?
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How many billions does ExxonMobil owe all of us for their repeated spills?
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If you ignore the fact Venezuela does owe US companies billions of dollars. They lost to both ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil in international court.
~$1 Billion https://www.steptoe.com/en/news-publications/steptoe-secures-major-victory-for-exxonmobil-in-venezuela-asset-seizure-case.html
$8.7 Billion https://www.italaw.com/cases/321
The same way that Haiti owed France or is this somehow different?
For context, because everyone doesn't know how Haïti was made an example of by the French to deter other carribean island colonies to seek independance or to free their slaves :
I agree that the US claim is bogus and "justice" for international oil firms (poor guys) is clearly one of the last thing motivating the Trump administration... It it were so, they wouldn't just blatantly break the law by stealing foreign oil cargos in foreign waters.
I don’t think you should compare colonization and slavery with a government going back on their contracts.
Would Iran and the British oil companies be a better comparison then?
Yes, but with a dozen asterisk because the UK invaded Iran twice (both World Wars( between the D'Arcy Concession and the 1952 nationalization. Iran also renegotiated the deal when Reza Shah took over in the 1920s.
With Iran D'Arcy had to find the oil in Khuzestan province compared to the fact that the oil was known to be there in Venezuela. Iran's nationalization was also done entirely within Iran, while Venezuela specifically signed deals saying they agreed to international arbitration in case of nationalization. Meaning the international courts said they had no jurisdiction in Iran while they do because it was specifically agreed to in Venezuela.
That sounds like a problem for those companies. But why even keep pretending that the military doesn't exist to protect corporate power.
Yep. It's an oligarchic kleptocracy.
They stole Venezuela’s oil in the first place. May they never see a dime.
How is signing an agreement stealing?
The alliance the Venezuelan opposition has with the USA and Israel is an "enemy of my enemy" situation. Nicolas Maduro has an alliance with the governments of Russia and Iran, who are opposed to the USA and Israel. Russia even sent the Wagner mercenaries to aid in quelling the protests over the election fraud of 2024. The Wagner group was then sent again to train the Venezuelan army in case of an invasion by the USA.
The proximity between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin makes things complicated. Some conspiracy theorists say that Trump and Putin will have some sort of trade, where the USA will sacrifice an ally (Ukraine) in exchange for Russia to sacrifice an ally (Venezuela).
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Your comment has been removed for violating Rule 3.
Your post uses Venezuelan government data so no, it’s not accurate. they literally listed their sources to be state sponsor government news. https://macedoniadelnorte.com now even beside that every leader in South America has asked for at least a recount because they do not believe that maduro won.
It wouldn't surprise me that Putin just openly switch to full far right endorsement and support as they gain more influence worldwide. The whole "anti-imperalist decolonialism" schtick has its use, but it's so opposite to Putin's actual ideology, he probably doesn't want to carry it to victory.
I think it is more profitable for Putin to remain looking for support both among the far-right and the anti-imperialists, like he does. Basically, if they do what he wants them to do, it doesn't matter to Putin WHY they say they do it.
He doesn't really need to, because the contradictions don't seem to cause him any problems. His supporters simply can't hear him when he says things they don't like, and they can't hear each other.
If it still existed he could probably send Wagner Group to support Rhodesia while also supporting Traoré and co. with surprisingly little effect on Russia's international reputation.
Russia has a very long and prosperous history with Israel.
They've signed agreements not to arm each other's rivals, have done extensive military technology deals, have visa free travel, Netanyahu and Putin are close on a personal level, Netanyahu features photos of him and Putin in ads for his last campaign, Israel has remained neutral on Ukraine, Russia remains Israel' main supplier of oil, Russia 's Google equivalent, Yandex, subsidizes a computer science school in Israel through University of Tel Aviv, 12% of the Israel voting base are Russian speaking.
Politically the US has to go so hard for Israel because Russia is always waiting with arms wide open.
Your comment has been removed for violating Rule 3.
Perhaps this time people will learn after america does what they have done several times already.
This has always been what american intervention and invasions meant
Why would it matter if the people learn?
The government has proven it can just ignore the people.
No government is invincible
Just like how Russia, China, Cuba and Iran have been looting us for years.
Man I really need to travel to the chinese occupation zone in america.
They were talking about Venezuela, not the USA.
Ah I see.
I didn't know China Russia and Iran invaded Venezuela and stole all it's natural resources
My bad
Our government pretty much entered a geopolitical protection racket with them, being the biggest countries that will collude with the regime in exchange for just enough to stay afloat- and in return for propping it up, they essentially treat my country like their personal gold mine.
I don't support Trump either, but everything you people accuse the United States of these countries have already been doing for decades now.
People are going to be very surprised when they find out about Nicolas Maduro's alliance with Vladimir Putin. Russia even sent the Wagner mercenaries to Venezuela to aid in suppressing protests and training the army.
Nation that’s under direct opposition from America forced into relationships with Americas enemies: more breaking news at 11
And those under direct opposition to America's enemies end up in an alliance with America.
The "enemy of my enemy" doesn't just apply to enemies of the USA.
How so? How is the most powerful military in the world, more than any other nation combined, getting robbed?
The person you respond to is a Venezuelan.
Lmao, taking back their resource rights from a bunch of dipshit fat cats isn’t robbing “us” it’s robbing the dipshit fat cats. Do those boots taste clean yet?
The comment was about Venezuela, not the USA.
The person you respond to is a Venezuelan.
In the end, only Venezuelan people are the ones who (will) suffer!
My favorite venezuelan propaganda experience was attending an international school in argentina and having an influx of rich venezuelans enroll after Chavez started doing his thing and hearing the parents rant about how evil he was when I was just trying to enjoy an arepa. Not to say they were wrong, but I never considered how one sided my view of Chavez was for a long time (I still think he sucks tho)
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I know they are separate people, but Chavez chose Maduro as his successor, and no where did I imply they are a representation of the venezuelan people. And its not lost on me that American imperialism has put south American countries in an impossible position of either basically being an American client state or using authoritarian techniques to avoid a US lead coup from turning them into one. Saying one is bad doesnt mean the other that hasnt been mentioned yet is good, and its a boring ass response to pretend it does.
Mind going over why?
Just generally not a fan of political leaders in military dress. Not a great history of that in argentina lol
Juan Peron is a weird case of an open fan of Italian Fascism who is somehow popular with the left wing.
Vibes-based politics goes back a long way.
Because fascism is more of a left-wing ideology than many people like to admit. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany had more in common with the USSR than they did with capitalist democracies.
I mean, where do you think the modern suit came from? The suit and tie is directly linked to Napoleonic era uniforms of Croatian Mercenaries.
Ok but like high heel boots were made for cavalry but that doesn't mean new york fashion week is a military parade lol. Thats just not how culture works, things change and adapt in both form and meaning.
Everything he did and his legacy, plus he was stupid and left someone even more stupid as his successor.
Do you have knowledge about the Material conditions of Venezuela before the arrival of Chavez and events such as the Caracaso wich were crucial for Chavez's arrival to the Miraflores Palace in 1998?
Because I feel that "everything he did + Maduro dumb" isn't a well defined response and too simplistic for a dislike of a Nation's leader especially one that was and is in crisis
Not investing your oil money and seeing your whole economy collapse after the oil price dips is financial mismanagement.
One word: better. Which isn’t hard to tell. And yes calling him stupid is very accurate, anyone who understands Spanish would know that Maduro is an international clown. That man is barely literate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo
Better?
I speak Spanish, and I very much think there are bigger clowns than some random latin american president
Remember that riots and social unrest doesn't come from a happy nation
Your view of him is accurate, though. "One-sided" would imply that Chávez and his countries have their own point of view that makes this entire situation grey rather than black and white- but no, he really was a corrupt scam artist who robbed Venezuela blind while pimping it out to other dictatorships after he twisted the nation enough that it's now pretty much ruled by a gang using a government body as their front.
Source: I'm Venezuelan, and not a wealthy one at that. Those either sided with the regime or left after it became clear they had to leave lest the Chavistas expropriated everything they had.
You are resorting to an appeal to irrelevant authority fallacy, I've met various Chavists from Venezuela and your argument would also make theirs equally valid
I do not want to invalidate your personal experience but saying "Im venezuelan" doesn't directly make you an expert on the history and material conditions of your nation, neither would Chavists, unless they have studied it, I would reccomend you to find sources and studies to sustain your claims rather than base them all in your nationality, again this is not an attack just a quick advice
They were wrong
Sos venezolano? O otro yankee que cree que sabe todo sobre latino america?
Yankees manufacturing consent fir yet another war is your preference?
I'm not a fan of Maduro, but I've had enough of USains and their Munro doctrine. Fix your own country first. We're no ones backyard.
The weird part is I don't feel like they're even trying to manufacture consent. They're just rolling with it and counting on the support of the MAGA base being extremely inelastic.
Speaking of "manufacturing consent," how about that picture of Noam Chomsky and Jeffrey Epstein hanging out?
Yes, disgusting. All Anarchists are just feds.
Christ the NYTs is hot garbage.
Remember, they got us into Iraq too.
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He was literally willing to let America have most of the oil in exchange for normalization of relations. Trump turned it down.
The United States buys half their exports, the Biden Administration eased sanctions until Maduro stopped following the requirements for elections.
https://oec.world/en/profile/country/ven
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-easing-venezuela-oil-sanctions-response-election-deal-official-2023-10-18/
He did not stop following any 'requirement'. Venezuelan elections are still the most internationally monitored. And no country has to follow any 'requirements' for its elections from anyone else.
The monitors of the elections were, in many cases, refused entry. They later denounced the elections as neither free nor fair.
They werent. Over 200 international monitors monitor those elections. The American ones' claims isnt worth mentioning next to those.
And the funniest thing: Nobody has to justify their elections to any foreign country. The US doesnt do it despite all the conflict, fraud, and even coup attempts. The US satellites dont do it, despite they outright ban opposition parties when they are about to win. Therefore all this 'election!' talk about Venezuela is just doublespeak.
Fair, but by that theory, no one has to trade with Venezuela either. If Maduro wants sanctions lifted, he can agree to terms
The requirements were the ones he fucking agreed to!
So yes, he does have to follow requirements he agreed to or he has do deal with sanctions, as per the agreement. It’s a pretty simple concept.
No government has to agree to anything with the opposition outside the law. Especially with an openly foreign backed opposition that sought to overthrow it multiple times. The government followed the Venezuelan law and that is enough. The US election landscape is sh*ttier, and yet nobody says it needs to be sanctioned.
Are you really trying to argue that Venezuelan elections are free and fair?
The starvation is due to shit management. Libya was a socialist oil-state and they were the most developed country in Africa, even after starting beef with NATO.
Libya literally collaborated with the West to the extent that Sarkozy had corrupt dealings with the Libyan government. Multinationals had been operating oil wells in Libya unimpeded. There was no nationalization of oil like Chavez did.
Sarkozy was not in power until the late 2000s. During the anti-western period in the 80's and 90's Libya was doing relatively well considering the sanctions.
Also consider that in 2023, 50% of Venezuelas exports were to the US and the US sent 205 Million dollars of foreign aid in 2024.
Also Libya did nationalize their oil,
That's not relevant. Even if some major politician is not in power, he is still part of that establishment and he takes part in the dealings of that country and its elite.
Venezuela has also been doing fine considering the sanctions, all the way since Chavez's time. It delivered 1.5 million houses to the poor, it created communes that neighborhoods in cities run, it provided education to the masses. But none of those gets mentioned.
Libya's successes started to get mentioned only after Gaddafi was killed. Otherwise, ~15 years ago, people were talking about Libya how you now talk about Venezuela. The 'dead socialist' syndrome of the Anglo west - living socialists get vilified, dead ones sanctified.
Yes Sarkozy not being in power at that time does matter lol.
Venezuela has not been doing fine considering the sanctions. Yes, the government prior to Chavez was also really bad.
https://www.wfp.org/countries/venezuela-bolivarian-republic?utm_source=chatgpt.com
40% of Venezuelans are food insecure.
https://www.wfp.org/news/colombia-sees-modest-improvement-food-security-half-population-remains-exposed-climatic-and?utm_source=chatgpt.com
versus 25% in Colombia
https://www.wfp.org/countries/colombia
Whether or not people were talking about Libya's success, it still was happening. Not everything is the US government's fault, many governments just suck. Also I will repeat that the US bought 50% of Venezuelas exports recently and sent 200 million in foreign aid.
Only if you have no idea about politics or are naive. For those who follow politics, even who will get 'elected' a few cycles later are obvious.
Yes, through a decade of economic warfare, embargo and piracy by the US.
Indeed - when a hostile country gets its lackeys like Colombia or Panama literally confiscate ships carrying food to your country, you end up 'insecure'.
...
Again, all of this is the same talk that people have been doing back in 2003 before the Iraq war, in 2011 before Libya, in 2015 before Syria. None of what you say is new: "US enemy is evil for * reasons *". Just shows how susceptible you are to propaganda.
We discussed enough. Thanks.
Lmao, sure buddy, keep telling yourself that Venezuela has good management. Everything is the US's fault. The fact that the US buys 50% of Venezuela's exports and sends them hundreds of millions in foreign aid, we will just conveniently ignore. Keep telling yourself that youre immune to propaganda.
Venezuela economic crisis is not because of sanctions is because of bad government.
The economy imploded dramatically before any sanctions were put on Venezuela (late 2017).
Have you ever talked to a Venezuelans about Maduro?
Yeah and shockingly not every Venezuelan is on the same page because an entire nation existence isn't soley devoted to being a talking point for Yankee Imperialism
You clearly didn't read the original comment I was replying to. Any Venezuelan that has escaped in one way or another knows how terrible it is to live there, to the point of doing slave labor here in some south American countries to scrape by knowing they have it better there than back home.
The starvation is a feature for the Maduro regime. People who are starving don't have the energy to overthrow the government. There's plenty of foreign aid that could have gone to Venezuela but they have been blocking it for years.
Not justifying any of Trumps actions btw, I just don't think there are any good government leaders in this interaction.
Similar to this, Trump going to war against the Ayatollah did give the Ayatollah some support on the Internet.
And the son of the deposed Shah of Iran trying to ally with Israel to take his family's throne caused progressive people in the West to magically remember the Shah was a tyrant, after DECADES of progressives in the USA and Europe praising the Shah as an "Enlightend Despot" or a "progressive ruler".
Not showing the giant american fist threatening anyone from trading with Venezuela eh NY Times?
What can one expect from the American Media
Oh yeah, but the sanctions are beign
They missed the American warships threatening Venezuela
In 2018?
I work with allot of venezuelans and they all really hope usa will engage. They feel like it will be the only way for them to have a chance to return and be able to live there
Yeah, because historically the US swooping in and doing regime change (especially in LatAm) has worked great.
I have no skin in the game. Im not american or venezuelan. All i am saying is what my coworkers say, the only venezuelans i know. And they clearly want maduro out, no matter the price
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It is quite easy to want war in your country when you are not in the country itself. If war is to happen I wonder how many will happily return and remain in the ruins of the country without even considering the fact there will be a worsening of the refugee crisis.
Stop treating other nationalities as minor or your pets, Venezuelans are entitled to think and wish what they want, ironically it’s Americans telling them what is better for them when they say that they shouldn’t ask for military intervention. They tried to play the socialist game and once again they lost, yes, Americans owning oil companies works better than corrupt military leaders doing so, what a shame an oil company can’t be managed democratically like the communist religion says. So you are expecting Venezuelans to fight in disadvantage when the government has the military and the organized crime on their side? Venezuelans have fled the country in the millions and at this rate 50 years are going to pass and you’re going to have the next ruins of Latin America after Cuba.
Que si gusanito, lo que tú digas, que esta vez va a ser totalmente distinto porque... Bueno, porque tú lo digas.
Eso lo será el coño de tu madre, y eres complice de narcodictadores
Lo que esta demostrado que después de mas de 500 años de independencia no sois capaces de gobernarnos solos. Ni uno solo de los países sudamericanos va bien. Solo sabéis montar carteles y guerrillas Si america decide haceros una colonia, arrodillarse y dar las gracias
Y a ti quien te ha dicho que soy sudaca?
Vete a la mierda como tú ídolo Paquito, que además el motivo por el que esas tierras están como están es porque cada vez que levantan cabeza el tío Sam se la rompe.
Y que quinientos años de independencia ni que niño muerto? Si la independencia la ganaron en el siglo XIX. Abre un libro de historia, pedazo de animal.
Cállate, mamawebo comunista lamebotas. Nadie cree que "esto vaya a ser distinto", pero de igual manera llevamos 26 años bajo una dictadura que dejó nuestro país hecho una mierda y no duda en masacrar a mi gente si nos atrevemos a molestarnos por ellos.
Que tú seas un pendejo apologista de dictadores porque vives sintiendo rabia contra los Estados Unidos no es nuestro problema. Por desperdicios de oxígeno analfabeta y arrogante como tú es que los tiranos siempre prosperan, todos tenemos que sufrir solo para que un excremento sin confianza como tú pueda sentirse como el héroe de la historia.
Que cojones hay que tener para llamar a otros lamebotas cuando le estás suplicando al país que apoya al 74% de las dictaduras del mundo que invada al tuyo.
Antes de llamar a alguien analfabeto aprende un poco de historia, vendepatrias patético, y mira como acabaron Iraq, Siria, Afghanistan y Líbia después de que los yanquis los "liberaran". También puedes mirar lo que hicieron los pedazo de animales en toda América durante la operación Cóndor, pero eso ya será demasiado esfuerzo para un mentecato como tú.
Only people who currently live in Venezuela should be allowed to talk about Venezuela, and only poor people in Venezuela at that
If they live on $1 a day, they aren’t going to use their $30/mo data plan to be on Reddit.
Actually a not insignificant number of them farm gold in RuneScape, and it's a complicated issue: on one hand I do feel for them, but it's explicitly against the ToS and the virtual inflation does cause some chaos before the devs stepped in to mitigate it. https://www.polygon.com/features/2020/5/27/21265613/runescape-is-helping-venezuelans-survive/
Considering the election fraud of 2024, the Venezuelan government might not like those opinions.
Yet your post is about Venezuela? Curious
I hope you're a poor Venezuelan or im telling the mods
So the millions of people that left in the last few years don't matter?
True. Imagine some random american who doesn't even know where Venezuela is but still support invasion.
Well, they voted for Maduro, so there you have it. It's not the US's business to invade a sovereign country because they don't like who's in charge
"They took all of our oil not that long ago. And we want it back"
I think anyone is free to comment on US mafia style tactics.
Some hypocrisy, considering that Britain stole gold from Venezuela
That gold belongs to the Indigenous communities in the Americas, and Maduro has been trying to insert himself into Venezuela's for the sake of seizing that gold.
For what's perhaps the first time ever, Britain is doing a favor to Native folks by ensuring that their riches won't be stolen by a corrupt dictatorship who drove his country (In which I live) through the mud for over two decades now.
Yeah, NY Times gave Stalin and Hitler the title of man of the year, so it's not like their opinion is worth anything.
That’s Time magazine, not the New York Times.
Oh, shoot. Well I still stand with my point, they are both major American news outlets covering similar topics.
that doesn't even make any sense. They're just simply different outlets
Apart from being the wrong publication, Man of the Year never meant appraisal. It meant that a person had a big effect on the world, which can't be denied for Hitler and Stalin (or Trump for that matter).
To be fair, both men were arguably the most relevant man in their respective years.
Media literacy is dead evidently.