Does anyone else here see porn books (or female literature) as the same as porn men watch, because I do. In these books, like Haunting Adaline, sexual violence is very much normalized and romanized against women and yet it’s seen as almost liberating for women and not at all as porn? Do you guys see this in the same way as I? I remember this topic on TikTok a while back and a surprising amount of women claim that it’s ok to read these books and that YOU’RE misogynistic for seeing a problem with it, despite the fact it’s just as unethical as porn videos- the only thing they have is that a woman isn’t physically experiencing this violence. (Also the fact children read these books is concerning)
When applicable, please obscure reddit usernames to prevent harassment. Please do not brigade by voting or commenting in the crosspost. If you are unclear on reddit's policies, please review: reddiquette and reddit's restrictions. If the post (and/or comments) breaks these rules, report to Reddit Admin Inbox.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
The main difference to me is that the visual porn industry is basically enslaving actual women. Exploiting real women in horrible ways for profit. Porn actresses are usually in vulnerable positions when they enter the industry and are taken advantage of. It teaches men and young boys to glorify violence and degradation of women at the cost of living, breathing women.
Now written porn, it’s bad and unethical. It does teach women and young girls to accept and romanticize violence. But no real women are being abused for the entertainment of perverse men. It’s fictional women typically written by women for other women.
I guess the question is, are the abuses of real women the same as the abuses of fictional women? Are they equal in impact? Most people take the harm of real women more seriously than the fantasized harm of written or ever drawn women.
Also are the abusers of women reading these books? I don't see many women acting out what they read in these books in the way men act out what they see in porn.
It’s not typical for these men to be reading erotica. They have built the dependence of the visual sensation of pornographic videos due to the targeted marketing the industry has sculpted over the years.
But it is true that women do act out what they read, just starting with baby steps. They pitch something more “harmless” like strangulation or they are primed to give into a man’s perverse fantasy easier. A lot get into BDSM and start attending sex dungeons and parties.
My point was that it doesn't often to cause women to abuse men or women but visual pornography frequently does cause men to abuse women and other men.
But it does cause women to want and accept abuse, which is very harmful.
I don't see it as exactly the same because the harm isn't the same. Pornography is a violent, exploitative industry that directly physically and mentally harms the ones involved in it.
Written erotica can also be very harmful. But it's harmful in a different way, in its messaging and what it's selling to women. It promotes misogynistic themes and it sells patriarchal tropes to women as "empowering" and titillating.
Both of these deserve to be condemned but pornography is straight up evil to me.
Well put!
I grew up reading the old timey Mills n Boon stuff and always got weirded out. The man usually has anger issues and the woman is somehow turned on by it? The first kiss is also usually accidental and many times non-consensual. Ew.
I'm not a fan.
Women are often portrayed as masochists.
Corn is far more potent and harmful, though.
*Porn. I’m pretty sure maize does not inherently harm people.
I had a friend a while ago who was very much addicted to these books, she would read at least one a day, and she didn't even seem to enjoy them. She tried to get me to read them too, but I am a nerd and just like nonfiction and stuff like that. I had no idea what this stuff was for a long time.
I remember checking out her goodreads and she'd read over a thousand of these books in a single year (they're super short tbf). A lot of them were these primal "alpha/beta" romance type things, and I still barely remember how she explained it but it was... weird. She didn't seem to read them for the story or because she just enjoyed a saucy romp (valid!) but because she needed an excuse to masturbate. It felt compulsive.
I've had other friends try to get me into that milk maid monster brothel book and I'm just like... so she's having to work in a brothel jerking off cows for money and the cow takes her out to dinner and gives her a dissertation about how she shouldn't have to worry about paying for dinner because he makes good money but he's perfectly fine to let her prostitute herself for the next year or two to pay off her student loan debt?
And he's a cow? With clop clop hooves and a cow tongue and everything? And she doesn't get any action (FROM A COW) until almost the end of the book and just gives handjobs the whole time and pines for the cow to fuck her? Is that the state of things? I just can't get behind it.
If I were going to read a saucy book the woman better not be giving handjobs 90% of the book to fucking barnyard animals, I'll tell you that much.
Well I never know books like that existed. Why would anyone want to read such nonsense. I can imagine reading erotic novels where people respect each other. I guess it will just stick to my John Le Carre and Marion Keyes novels.
wtaf!!! 😱 this is a helpful perspective! that's definitely the equivalent of porn addiction! Thats so disgusting 🤮
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Alpha/Beta/Omega
Yeah here's a whole wiki thing on it, it's a very popular genre for this kind of thing. Also the milk maid thing is HUGE, I can't remember the name of it, it's like something milking farm and it's just awful. They even have a cover with a cow man and a woman on the cover so THEY KNOW before they buy!
I think people are regressing into child-like mentality.
a/b/o (or omegaverse) is literally just archetypical gender/sex essentialism. only difference is men can now have the "female" role (submissive sex object that NEEDS to get pregnant) and women can have the "male" role (sexually aggressive creature who just can't help themselves). how people can't see this boggles the mind
in my opinion it is nowhere near as bad since there is not a real living victim. written erotica can still lead to problems though such as extreme fetishes
It’s not “just as unethical.” This is an argument that porn addicts use.
Of COURSE your novel with words is just as detrimental to everyone as porn. /s
Who’s trafficked to write a book? What number of women are drugged and raped and groomed, and physically hurt? Nope. Porn is much MUCH worse and it’s. It even close.
I’m a fan of romance books but I agree; the genre has been inundated with “spice” and that’s all people seem to focus on. The “dark romance” genre you spoke of glorifies abuse and I detest it. I don’t mind sex scenes in books but I don’t like when the focus is more on the sex rather than the relationship. A lot of the male characters in these books are “alphas” and it just pushes this patriarchal narrative that it’s desirable for a man to be an asshole. I don’t put erotica in the same category as porn just because real people aren’t being harmed in its production, that doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful. The messaging in some of these books is really patriarchal and the focus on sex above romance/love teaches women to expect less from men.
Porn brains Are Just trying to feel better about themselves. I hate smut, but it’s not as morally reprehensible as porn because no one is being trafficked or exploited to make it.
I think that’s pretty big thing. Having a woman or god forbid, a child, physically experiencing that is unethical and evil on another level. Is a real woman or child’s suffering/abuse no worse than the suffering of some fictional creation of words on pages?
Yes this stuff is wrong and bad and dangerous. But I would not say it’s on the exact same level. Porn-brained men literally use this argument to excuse pornography by deluding themselves into thinking women are equally as perverse/degenerate/twisted as them or worse. But I will add that you’re absolutely right that it’s foolish at best for other women to claim there’s nothing wrong with these books or claim you’re misogynist for having an issue with it
This argument to me is like saying writing about/drawing CSA is better than actual real life CSAM and CSA. It truly doesn't matter if its fictional or not, the principles are the same, the morals are the same, the effect on society and our brains is... almost completely the same. Its definitely misogynistic. Yeah at least no real living women are actively being abused / acting to produce the literature. But its still degrading, misogynistic, and anyone who reads it/ writes it is still perpetuating the same misogynistic / harmful stereotypes. Like that booktok trend where the guy aggressively grabs your wrists and pins you down. Romanticizing controlling / aggressive / possessive men. A lot of romantic / erotic literature depicts rape scenes or romanticizes rape. All the same things that porn does. The only difference is no human actors are involved.
written pornography can be equally as harmful as filmed pornography.
i read many, many erotic stories online as a child that involved children and animals being sexualised. there were stories about rape too. it really messed me up for a long time.
Equating erotic literature with pornography is about the same as equating horror literature with videos of real-life torture and murders. The harm is incomparable; the latter have direct victims.
I also have a question do you think women won’t complain if men replaced the porn with these books and used them instead?
[deleted]
It’s bad, but to say books are worse is pretty crazy, considering only one directly exploits and abuses real women.
Books can and do exploit women :/ just not physically I guess. But societally and mentally, it still negatively impacts women
I agree, and I actually think these books are connected to some of the physical abuse that women receive (and sometimes believe is acceptable) in bed, so there is a physical component to it. It’s just not as terrible as videos.
[deleted]
Why is that worse than men exploiting women? Why allow the standard to be so much lower for men? I understand there’s a special sadness in women believing it’s okay and perpetuating it, but I think men’s abuse of their opposite sex is worse.