The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power... We are different from all the oligarchies of the past... All the others... were cowards and hypocrites.
I would say AuthCenter because they don't really care about economics or worker control of the means of production just complete and utter subordination of the individual
Technically yeah but in the grand scheme of things they are largely insignificant. I corporations that are trans-national (like Amazon, Google, etc. in OTL) are "true corporations".
Corporatism ≠ corporatocracy. "Corpo" in the former word refers to like the organs of society and such. It's an influence of Italian fascism. Corporatocracy is the dominance of corporations and private businesses.
Eh non is center in econamics whole 1984 is just a adult caunairy tale about the dangers of toteletarainsm like the ones our parents told when we did something we werent supposed to do and they tells as a scary story and if we do that thing again a monster will eat us or something brave new world has more realist and political subjects in my opion
ingsoc is authcenter, ingsoc has always been authcenter, ingsoc has never been either left or right, there is no left or right, only ingsoc, and always will be ingsoc. ingsoc loves you, ingsoc is watching, he is your big brother.
How the hell can it be auth-anything, it is authortarian itself, made as a critique on authortarianism
If you think it is Authleft because it is called English Socialist then you didnt understand the critique of "the ruling party is anything it calls itself", which does not reflect reality, see North Korea
Ingsoc is an interesting "ideology" to plot on the compass. The obvious "the economy is planned and jobs are assigned to citizens, therefore its left" isn't wrong, but cultural elements such as the removal of sex, limitations on leisure for 'moral superiority', and their prison system are all fairly rightist (though not economic).
though i think ingsoc is a great example of "Pure Authoritarian", it is more economically left and culturally right, and id place it fully auth slightly left. great question tho!
Between the X-axis (Left and Right) and the Y-axis (Authoritarian and Libertarian), INGSOC is on the Z-axis (INGSOC) at the extreme authoritarian level.
Heres the thing, people believed that George Orwell was just an overall anti-authoritarian, and that Ingsoc is authcentre... Not true... He sold out many leftist groups including many lib-left groups and actively worked with the CIA... He was a social Democrat... He was a liberal that believed in liberalism but with social policies... However there is a note that it came during the fascist period where the right was co-opting leftist talking points
My example if nazis co-opting leftist points is a nazi going: "we're the same, I also hate (((banks))) and (((Isreal))) and (((capitalism)))" leftist language converted into anti-semetism as was much of Hitler's propaganda.
...the nomenclature of Ingsoc or "English Socialism" makes It a propaganda piece against leftist ideologies, rather than a simple critique on authoritarianism.... His works were heavily propagandized to be "across the spectrum and He is critiquing all authoritarianism" when the history of his works, how they were applied, and the surrounding context of the man himself heavily shows an Anti-left bias.... This coincides with his work "Animal farm" which was just an antiSoviet propaganda piece where he essentially calls leftist ideology as lies with concepts like "everyone is equal but some are more equal than others" which is counter to actual leftist thought as only a ridiculous ideology like Nazbol would believe in that
Edit:I has to edit out a chunk where I believed the book came before world war 2, I stand corrected by a quick Google search and my point is a little muted, however I will also add that the year does make sense for it to be an Anti-left work as America Dove towards fascism out of fear of the left and this was the cold war Period
Okay... Let's start with a source for the CIA claim shall we? Gonna start with some history and then circle back to the calling Orwell a Nazbol(or Nazi? The second paragraph does little to justify it's conclusion contextually)
For those unfamiliar with the man outside his work let's all remind ourselves this man fought on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, wrote fondly of the Anarchists, and also wrote "When I joined the militia I had promised myself to kill one fascist - after all, if we each killed one they would soon be extinct"
Much like Animal Farm, Orwell wrote 1984 as a criticism of the Soviet Union. Eurasia itself is the USSR. The intention was to portray an authoritarian socialist state.
breaking news! person discussing politics online, when presented with "this thing is bad", arrograntly assumes they meant the other option is categorically good. more at six, and forever, because these idiots will never learn
INGSOC is what INGSOC tells you it is. Which is always true.
ATTEION COMRADS OF THE PARTY THIS MESSAGE WAS APPORUVED BY THE MINISTERY OF TRUTH
ATTENTION.
THE PARTY WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THIS MAN A "TRUE."
AuthUnity.
-O’Brien
That is basically AuthCenter right?
AuthUnity = AuthCentre
I don't know that we really have a good idea of Ingsoc's economic policy
lNGSOC does not really care about the economy as its entire focus is control, so AuthCenter
personally I see it as authunity, although I can see how someone would believe it Authleft
Then again, it's a Fictional ideology so it doesn't matter much
I suppose it depends on how you define Left.
If you define left as simply "government control of the economy", it's AuthLeft, if you define Left as "economic equality", it's AuthCentre
"Authleft" is an oxymoron anyway
They ain't ready to hear that the right is authoritarian by default, and vice versa
Can't have a command economy without a state, and a large one at that
fancy seeing you here
Hello
I’ll have to ask the minitru before I can say one way or the other
I would say AuthCenter because they don't really care about economics or worker control of the means of production just complete and utter subordination of the individual
authoritarian centrism
The point is that its horseshoe
AuthCentre, quite obvious
It's Authcenter and Corporatist.
Do you count small bussnies as corporatoins in this case?
Technically yeah but in the grand scheme of things they are largely insignificant. I corporations that are trans-national (like Amazon, Google, etc. in OTL) are "true corporations".
Edit: Typo
Corporatism ≠ corporatocracy. "Corpo" in the former word refers to like the organs of society and such. It's an influence of Italian fascism. Corporatocracy is the dominance of corporations and private businesses.
Oh ok thanks
Isn't INGSOC off the compass!
Yes. Just like neo-bolshevikism and obliteration of the self
Eh non is center in econamics whole 1984 is just a adult caunairy tale about the dangers of toteletarainsm like the ones our parents told when we did something we werent supposed to do and they tells as a scary story and if we do that thing again a monster will eat us or something brave new world has more realist and political subjects in my opion
r/Ihadastroke
how the hell did you have stroke?
ingsoc is authcenter, ingsoc has always been authcenter, ingsoc has never been either left or right, there is no left or right, only ingsoc, and always will be ingsoc. ingsoc loves you, ingsoc is watching, he is your big brother.
It's Authoritarian-Centre. They have some socialist policies and some Right-wing ones too. But mostly just cultist policies
How the hell can it be auth-anything, it is authortarian itself, made as a critique on authortarianism
If you think it is Authleft because it is called English Socialist then you didnt understand the critique of "the ruling party is anything it calls itself", which does not reflect reality, see North Korea
Ingsoc is an interesting "ideology" to plot on the compass. The obvious "the economy is planned and jobs are assigned to citizens, therefore its left" isn't wrong, but cultural elements such as the removal of sex, limitations on leisure for 'moral superiority', and their prison system are all fairly rightist (though not economic).
though i think ingsoc is a great example of "Pure Authoritarian", it is more economically left and culturally right, and id place it fully auth slightly left. great question tho!
Literally AuthLeft. Total control of society in economy, in political sphere
For memes, its authunity off compass but realistically they’re probably around where the DPRK is
AuthCenter…?
AuthCenter. It doesn't do stuff about economics, it is just authoritarian.
Start at the center, go as far up as you can, and you'll hit IngSoc.
Ultra-totalitarianism? AuthCentre
AuthCentre
Certainly an AuthLeft ideology.
Between the X-axis (Left and Right) and the Y-axis (Authoritarian and Libertarian), INGSOC is on the Z-axis (INGSOC) at the extreme authoritarian level.
It is athoritarian centrist
authleft, all the stuff is shared communally
(and also brutalist architecture)
Auth center they don’t really give a shit about economics
Heres the thing, people believed that George Orwell was just an overall anti-authoritarian, and that Ingsoc is authcentre... Not true... He sold out many leftist groups including many lib-left groups and actively worked with the CIA... He was a social Democrat... He was a liberal that believed in liberalism but with social policies... However there is a note that it came during the fascist period where the right was co-opting leftist talking points
My example if nazis co-opting leftist points is a nazi going: "we're the same, I also hate (((banks))) and (((Isreal))) and (((capitalism)))" leftist language converted into anti-semetism as was much of Hitler's propaganda.
...the nomenclature of Ingsoc or "English Socialism" makes It a propaganda piece against leftist ideologies, rather than a simple critique on authoritarianism.... His works were heavily propagandized to be "across the spectrum and He is critiquing all authoritarianism" when the history of his works, how they were applied, and the surrounding context of the man himself heavily shows an Anti-left bias.... This coincides with his work "Animal farm" which was just an antiSoviet propaganda piece where he essentially calls leftist ideology as lies with concepts like "everyone is equal but some are more equal than others" which is counter to actual leftist thought as only a ridiculous ideology like Nazbol would believe in that
Edit:I has to edit out a chunk where I believed the book came before world war 2, I stand corrected by a quick Google search and my point is a little muted, however I will also add that the year does make sense for it to be an Anti-left work as America Dove towards fascism out of fear of the left and this was the cold war Period
Okay... Let's start with a source for the CIA claim shall we? Gonna start with some history and then circle back to the calling Orwell a Nazbol(or Nazi? The second paragraph does little to justify it's conclusion contextually)
For those unfamiliar with the man outside his work let's all remind ourselves this man fought on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, wrote fondly of the Anarchists, and also wrote "When I joined the militia I had promised myself to kill one fascist - after all, if we each killed one they would soon be extinct"
But isn't Orwell himself a Socialist and fought in the Spanish Civil war? You fucking moron, opposition to the USSR isn't inherently anti-Left.
Yea but 1984 is more about dangers of unchecked toteletarainsm and greed for power and controll
Yea but my point is to prove the guy above wrong
Okey then
The sheer indignation and rage from this comment made me chuckle.
How is this even angry? This is just so stupid because I'm just answering questions
“You fucking moron” gave me that impression. Anyway, I liked the exasperated anger. I was chuckling because your comment was quite relatable.
Fair take
Ridiculous
AuthLeft
Slightly left of AuthCenter
English Socialism.
Much like Animal Farm, Orwell wrote 1984 as a criticism of the Soviet Union. Eurasia itself is the USSR. The intention was to portray an authoritarian socialist state.
It's authleft.
INGSOC was made as an amalgamation of the USSR and Nazi Germany. The point of 1984 was "totalitarianism bad", not "totalitarian socialism bad".
Yeah
So “totalitarian socialism” good?
edit: lmao touch grass losers, and don’t expose yourselves as reactionaries this easily.
Man makes bad faith argument to sound superior, fails because the premise of the argument is completely stupid
It's just a question, I couldn't care any less about feeling or sounding superior to a redditor lmao.
Your lack of answer though, it's all the answer I needed.
I have a very controversial answer: Totalitarian socialism bad. Happy now?
Are you being intentionally dense?
The book was saying all totalitarianism was bad. Not one specific kind.
Yeah
breaking news! person discussing politics online, when presented with "this thing is bad", arrograntly assumes they meant the other option is categorically good. more at six, and forever, because these idiots will never learn
Fr
It's not even "the other option".
"Totalitarianism bad" heavily implies that it's talking about both socialist totalitarianism as well as any other kinds.
Yea
If all apples are bad, then are red apples bad too?
No
“North Korea is democratic because it's the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea!”
Aren't you like a Jucheist?