Most jobs with unlimited PTO heavily discourage you from using any of it to the extent that most people have less PTO than if they had a set amount of days.
Yeah, it's basically entirely down to how chill your boss is at that point. If you have an excellent boss and you're a good contributor it can actually be unlimited, but if those things aren't true you probably can't get a day off to save your life (literally).
This depends on the labor laws where you are. In a few states your PTO is considered part of your compensation and you are legally entitled to it when you leave the company.
But if your PTO bank is “empty” they owe you nothing when you leave.
Unlimited PTO is becoming common in software which I dread. I often carry 3-4 weeks of PTO balance and that’s a solid paycheck when I change jobs. In future it’ll mean I get nothing in addition to negative job performance feedback for using vacation time.
Right, but that doesn’t change that in those states, if you don’t use your PTO, you get paid out. That doesn’t happen with unlimited PTO, whether you spend it or not.
Yeah, the key is that with unlimited PTO, you aren't "accruing" PTO hours with each paycheck. When I got laid off during COVID, I had like 200hrs saved up that I was paid out for asking with severance. It made a significant difference.
It also depends on if it's worth pursuing. I left a job about a year ago and had 20 something hours in my PTO bank and it never got paid out to me even though it should have. But I wasn't going to get a lawyer over it in hopes I would get paid it plus lawyer fees. Many companies just get away with it because of that
As an engineering manager - I’d rather you just use your PTO, because rest and recuperation are important for mental and physical health. Rested employees are the most effective employees.
Also - meta gaming this a bit. If everyone uses their PTO, it makes it easier for me to justify requests to expand the team and hire more people.
This was why I always heard the trend of "unlimited" began. A lot of tech companies are based in California, which has more worker-friendly laws. California is one of the states that requires the unused PTO balance to be paid out. How do you not have a PTO balance? Make it "unlimited".
I don’t know what the laws are now in California. But the last time I worked for a California company, we had “unlimited” PTO. But for legal reasons, there was a floor and you got paid out the balance if you didn’t hit the floor.
I want this lawsuit to happen. Suddenly a company is bankrupt because they owe an employee forever wages for simply being employed. Then every other employee applies for it and now the CEO is forever in debt.
Unlimited PTO is a trap that allows employers to go around these laws. Because you don't accrue time off they are not forced to pay you anything if your employment ends for any reason. Company where I used to work changed to unlimited PTO after getting acquired by an EF and they never paid any owed money to anyone. All this in a state with the laws you are mentioning.
WA state here as well, leaving my job in the new year. They have no obligation to pay it out under law, but they are legally bound to follow the policies in the employee handbook. So check your handbook so you’ll know what to expect. (Wishing we would just pass a law mandating payout.)
When you leave the company yes. However that doesn't stop shady shit companies from Republican states from changing your accrual policy so it takes the entire year to accrue pro you can't use. Been there, in fact they won't pay out unused pro yearly at all, if you don't get down to under a week which is what roles over it's just gone... Their legal department had several fights with employees after the takeover and the company managed to cover their own ass but we loss employees and for sure I know they didn't follow IL law for the first year... Fucking circus.
But they want to look competitive to attract and retain talent. The more PTO they award the more debt they essentially have hanging out and paying it out when employees leave or during a buy out period is typical with generous plans, which again, exist to attract talent. Unlimited isn’t a debt, can’t be paid out and sounds better on paper.
Police detective here: I joined my department when I was 18 (civilian) and then sworn at 21. I’ll be able to retire at 43 with a full pension. When we retire we get paid out for 440 (max) hours of sick, if you leave with 90% of possible sick time accrued you get free health insurance (which means you basically didn’t take more than about 2 weeks in 25 years), cash out 225 hours (max) of comp time (PTO), plus option to either burn your vacations before final retirement date or just take the cash payout.
All this to say, never ~really~ getting into the private sector, it’s crazy to me that there’s a vast majority of people that have to fight this fight. Positions with the mirage of flexibility or positions where you’re just fucked from the start.
Urban cop life has its long list of challenges but you’ll never see me complain about not being able to take off (except traditional holidays or summer weekends lol). Bless you guys that have to ride that struggle buss, that sucks. :/
Sigh. I graduated from police foundations when I was younger and then didnt become a cop. All my friends look at me and say yea that was probably for the best, youre too gentle and uncompetitive to do that for long. Then my friend started dating a wicca and when secondary education came up as a topic she sneered at me and said DiD tHeY tEaCh YoU tO bE fAsCiSt? and then got mad when I replied I must have been sick that day.
That level of dumb edgy fuckface energy? Thats what you sound like right now.
They do in the UK, because there’s a statutory minimum.
That said, I have DTO at my company, and I take about 8-12 weeks off per year, depending on my needs 🤷♂️ nobody gives a fuck and it’s a major incentive to stay there tbh.
No, because PTO has to get approved, so you would be able to get fired the first day you didnt show up without approval. Also you dont get severance for termination with cause, so they dont have to give you anything
Lots of companies don’t pay out PTO when you quit even with a normal PTO policy. It’s totally up to what they can legally get away with in whatever state they are in.
My last company was like this so I made sure to take 2 weeks off using up all my PTO and then quit right when I got back.
And that is why they do that. In some states, PTO is legally compensation if you acrue it. Unlimited PTO removes the legal requirement for the company to pay it out.
The whole concept of having a given number of 'allowed' sick days is bizarre to say the least. And I don't say this as someone that is off sick often - I've had one day off in three years - but if you're too sick to work, you're too sick to work. It's that simple.
It's like saying there's a limit on the number of days where it's allowed to rain.
I guess I got lucky with a chill boss. The other day I asked my boss if I could work half days on Thursday’s and Friday’s for a while to help my someone in my family who doctors say may make it to Christmas or may not. Then she says “you’ve only taken 6 days off since you started this year, you should just take the rest of the month off to be with your family because that’s more important, and that’s what I would do if I were in your situation”.
I don’t know what these other responses are even trying to say to this. Your boss pointed out that you ONLY took six days off this year, they literally pointed out that you worked too much and gave you more days/time off than you requested. You have a good boss, fuck these weirdos trying to spin it as a bad thing.
This is very true, it can go both ways.
I have unlimited PTO but I work with a great boss and a great group of people, last year I took off about 7 weeks and this year about 6 weeks.
It all comes down to making sure the work is being done and we always cover for each other when someone is taking time off.
Yeah, I had roughly 60 days of paid vacation a year (my boss did too). I was the most productive I've ever been and my work was the highest quality it's ever been. Manager got tired of BS from our new overlords and stepped down and we got a new manager that immediately told me that if I go on vacation, I'm not allowed to take anymore for the rest of the year, and that everyone on the team will have to be working more and vacationing less. Productivity of that team was at an all time low under him. I quit
Even if your boss is the coolest dude. How much PTO are you gonna end up taking anyway, every year. Yeah maybe 1 year you might take 30 PTOs for some reason or even 40 but it is ignorant to think that unlimited PTO depends on boss. Yeah it depends on boss but even then you would hardly end up taking more than 30 AT MAX, average 20 per year. The thing is, with unlimited PTO the guilt is on you to take PTO. With fix set of PTOs, most people end of using it by the end of the year because they have few left.
I have unlimited and I think as long as there is a reasonable request there isn't a problem. I'm not requesting off a month of time or just taking off Fridays when I want. I think as long as my days are requested off in advance, they align with commonly requested days, and there's not too many wildcard days I'm okay. I have respectful management.
I have 8 direct reports at a company with unlimited pto. I sometimes have to nag these ppl to use their PTO. At least when it was fixed, there was a sense of urgency to use them before they were lost.
That’s why it’s much better to just have a generous but limited PTO policy. Clear, easier to plan around for both the employer and employee, and much less likelihood of employer abuse.
My boss is chill with us limited vacation. I just started a 3 week vacation now for the holidays and I took several days and weeks throughout the year.
It's step one of the paper trail when a company is looking to safely and legally fire you.
It's basically a written document they make you sign that says "I will do X , Y and Z and if I don't I understand that there will be escalating consequences'
Usually you get your PiP which is something unreasonable or very hard for you to stick to. Then when you inevitably fail at the PIP. (Which they want) You get a Written Warning. Which again they make you sign acknowledging you know it exists.
And then finally they fire you. And if you try to apply for unemployment they can say no see look. We have all this documentation showing that this person didn't do the things we asked them to! (No matter how unreasonable/difficult to accomplish those things were)
Just know. In most cases. If you get put on a PIP they're trying to get rid of you.
The worst thing to happen to the tech industry. An “improvement plan” that’s just a gentle firing. All engineers I know hate it, all managers hate it. It’s just pure capitalist greed in action. Awful long term (higher turnover, higher tech debt, less experienced engineers) but it gives shareholders a short term boost to the bottom line earlier in its implementation.
Performance Improvement Plan - - It means they are starting a paper trail to fire you for "performance issues". Never knew of anyone put on a PIP who made it more than 18 months and that one was a bit of a fluke, as we were stretched pretty thin.
Ugh, I’m so sorry for your husband. That is incredibly sick of the company to do. My husband complains that even though his company gives paternity, “the culture is to not take it” and I think I’m starting to understand. But wtf
*4 weeks is the legal minimum. But yeah, 6 weeks is the standard, and Germans also got way more public holidays, which work like additional PTO on top of that
Can confirm, been at a tech company for 4 years now. In that time I’ve averaged 7-8 days leave a year, I would have at least 15 days in PTO at any other company I worked for and in many 21 days PTO that I always used up or got paid back for when I was leaving the job. Been a super rip off
It depends. I have unlimited PTO from my company and have never been discouraged from using it. I have worked at the same place for a decade and I take off 50+ days a year. In fact, I am off now until the 5th of January. Every year I essentially take off all of December
Enjoy it while you can, my company was also unlimited PTO for 9 years and they just switched it to 15 this year. I was so spoiled. I know 15 is way more than many, but now it feels like nothing
I once had a job that gave me unlimited PTO. Used it and booked a week off after the X-mas/New Year break because I was moving to a different state and wanted to unpack and get my new licence sorted (since the different state requires a different driver's licence), as well as other stuff that requres introducing myself or updating my details IN PERSON.
Boss messaged me during the X-mas/New Year's break asking if I could come back early, and I was like, "Why do you have to take a week off after moving?" and since it was an international company and my boss wasn't from my country, I had to explain that I was moving. The place where i can renew my license is only open on weekedays and my partner is the only one who could take me there because he has a valid license and i "technically" didn't.
He was bamboozled. Also, he approved that leave like months ago. Everyone knew I was moving (the job was open to remote working), and I guess they didn't understand what makes moving in my country different from theirs.
Exactly...I have a job with set leave and limits on how much I can carry over, and my supervisor is always reminding people to use the time they can't carry over
With unlimited - I have a feeling instead of PTO requests being seen mostly as a formality, PTO is really going to be at their discretion. Also, they will use it to have the employees be at each other's throats. If sorry, Carole already put in for that week... Yeah I know she was off for the last holiday week as well, but she did or in her request off first...
I don’t think it’s true that you are heavily discouraged. It’s more an internal pressure aspect. When you have fixed PTO, it’s easier to feel justified in taking it. When you have unlimited PTO, some (though not all) people feel more uncertain or cagey about using it.
My job has unlimited PTO. I take six weeks off (in either 2 three weeks or 3 two weeks) a year plus a few days here or there if I need them. It’s been that way since I started and I’ve been at this company for almost 4 years now.
Unlimited PTO only benefits the company in most cases:
the overwhelming majority of Americans never use their full PTO under a standard accrual plan, so unlimited PTO isn’t likely to become a realized benefit.
PTO in most cases is a legally accrued benefit. It’s owed to you as wages. It also becomes a liability in the business’ financial reporting. By removing the accrual of PTO and making it “unlimited” they don’t have to track it and therefore the company looks financially healthier on paper.
Most unlimited PTO policies have manager approval as a caveat. You might also have to be in good standing with the company to take it. So if you’ve been “written up” or are on a PIP, guess who’s not getting their PTO approved?
This could also be a salary gig. Sure, you may have "regular hours," but as long as business needs are met, you might not have to work a full 40 and the company just uses "unlimited PTO" to keep track of when you're actually on site. A few of the managers I've had have had systems like that, hell, one of them worked about 20 hours a week.
First full time job was a salaried position at a University. Definitely had some weeks I worked 20 hours (probably some weeks when school was on break), but also had weeks I worked 70+ hours.
My first salaried job was catering manager for weddings. I did literally fuck all in March. NO ONE gets married in March. I could be 'on the clock' literally playing neopets or working in my garden. As long as my phone was on, I was good.
During peak seasons though I had no life, so the downtime kind of made up for it. could fuck around, take a spontaneous trip, show up at different work locations for fun. Miss that job, don't work miss the peak seasons though.
Had a 'boss' that did maybe 15 hours a work a week, but those 15 hours of work were usually flying all around the country to do deals with people that allowed us to actually work.
Essentially his 15 hours made the company more money than 1000 of my own.
If you have a boss thats a clock watcher it doesn't matter if you're done at 30 or 40 or 50 hours. You have to sit there and look busy until the acceptable leaving time hits.
I worked 55hrs+ for weeks on end and left one week at 39.5 hours and got docked a half day's PTO by that clock gazer. Needless to say I sat at my desk and did fuckall until I got a new job after that.
Id add even if you hit the jackpot and get a manager who will approve everything, you're still probably not going to take enough to come out positive. I've worked at companies with a cap to the amount of pto you can carry over year over year so it effectively forces workaholics to take a vacation. Not happening with unlimited PTO, so it could lead to overall unhealthier work habits.
I’ve had careers with both but I honestly prefer the unlimited PTO model. Personally I never have much PTO accrued when I leave a company so it hasn’t been any kind of huge benefit. And I take time throughout the year. I took all week of Thanksgiving off and as for winter my last day is 12/19 and I return to work 1/5. I have two big trips planned for next year already and some smaller ones where I’ll be taking PTO. I’ve never had an issue with getting it approved, at my job if you can get it in early enough for planning purposes it’s basically guaranteed to get approved. And even if it’s short notice they will work with you to make sure the client work gets coverage. I have had coworkers take 4-6 week vacations, albeit the company had plenty of advance notice.
I know I won’t get paid anything when I leave - but especially having a young child I much prefer the flexibility. We had to cut an upcoming Florida trip a day short because my husband ran out of PTO at his job.
I’m in this same boat, last two jobs before my current were unlimited PTO, When I moved to my current job, I lost all of that and had to restart with only two weeks. I’ve got young kids in sports and other various activities, two weeks ain’t shit when you commit to being at everything for your kids.
I'm so thankful that my job has unlimited PTO with a minimum mandatory usage. It's because we have global employees who live in places where they get a mandatory 30 days, so the company matches that for everyone... Where 30 days is the minimum mandatory PTO for everyone
I think you aren't using "hit a jackpot" correctly. I essentially have taken a month plus of PTO every year since my company has switched to unlimited PTO. Beats the 2 weeks PTO most places give and my company used to give.
I understand the sentiment of people who don't take enough PTO when unlimited, but unlimited PTO at its best is way better than accrued PTO.
I use absolutely every minute of PTO and sick time I'm given. I currently have 0 PTO left and 0.56 hours of sick time left for 2025, and you best believe I'm leaving
33 minutes early one day in the next couple weeks.
I have coworkers who call in "sick" at least one day every week of the year. It's because of people like them that companies are forced to limit the amount of sick time they give.
Sick time is also generally usable for medical appointments. It’s usually more lenient too (in my experience), and protects your standard PTO from being wasted if you get sick. The jobs I’ve had with sick time usually also afforded the same amount of PTO as the jobs I’ve had without it.
What I mean is that the rest of the developed world just gets basically unlimited coverage of this for free. I am EU and if you’re sick you don’t use up any ”days” and you get paid as if you had been working. You’re free to leave work - while being paid - for medical appointments.
No, most jobs only let a certain amount roll over.
My last job and my current job limit it to 40 hours. Some jobs will add some extra requirements too, like my current job requires that the roll over days be used before the end of April.
Brian pretending to be an activist for the proletariat to sleep with a woke chick here. Unlimited PTO is a scam cooked up by someone in HR who figured out if you don’t have clearly defined rules around earning PTO then a company doesn’t have to pay you an accrued balance when you leave. AND they don’t have to approve any requests at all, so there’s zero chance for you to abuse it and unlimited chances for them to abuse you.
The average employee either takes the same or fewer days off, the try hard boot lickers take dramatically less, and when the company decides to lay them all off and offshore the jobs under the guise of AI adoption they don’t have to cut any checks.
I think it's such a bullshit rule. If you have unlimited PTO than the company should have to compensate you an unlimited amount for your unlimited PTO balance when you leave.
Well I feel this just should be fixed by setting the minimum amount of PTO(like 20 working days in many countries), preferably this should be made by government and not companies
Am HR and can confirm! You know what unlimited PTO also does? Allows people (well, I mean executives so technically not people) who feel like no one can touch them to take full advantage of the policy while not tolerating their direct reports let alone anyone else like say the people who make minimum wage to benefit from the same policy and ask me how I know.
I worked a job that had unlimited PTO, the policy was just “make sure that you’re not leaving your coworkers in a bad position in your absence,” and you’re not gonna believe this, but there was never a good time for it. We were always “so busy” that it was next to impossible to get a 4 day weekend.
Many companies have moved to a “unlimited PTO” model because ironically people take less time off with unlimited PTO than a fixed amount.. The psychology is that if everyone knows they have X days off a year, they will use X days. But if they have “unlimited” days off, then they feel peer pressured to not use too much.
Unlimited PTO is actually bad since if you take too much, people will start to raise an eyebrow. Sure it's legally right, but is it "corporate right"? Where so called "teamwork" matters? This is true in Asian culture, not sure about elsewhere. If you have limited PTO, people won't bother you since it's essentially your own quota but unlimited PTO have this idea that such quota can be abused, people who take too much are lazy, etc
Though TBH, if it was me I would take it whenever I like since y'all mf don't have a life and I would spend my rest day heavy-duty gooning.
I have worked at two companies with unlimited PTO.
One was harsh and there was a lot of judgement around PTO and it felt like a scam.
My current role is flexible and focused on my output rather than “days I am in my chair”. My boss encourages time off as long as my responsibilities are met.
Yes if you are interviewing for a job with unlimited PTO you need to vibe it out. Usually there will be an interview with your coworkers (not management) and that's when I ask all the juicy questions including how much PTO they take, how often it's rejected, how many hours they work in an average day, etc
While yes you are losing things like vacation pay out (depending on your state) having unlimited sick time is a major game changer if you have a chronic illness. Limited sick time and especially combined sick and vacation time are a fucking scam too
That wouldn’t be much different from any job where your PTO needs to be approved. Unlimited PTO generally dissuades people from using as much time off as if you were given a bank of hours/days to pull from.
When I started at my current job that has unlimited, I just said it out loud during my initial 1:1 with my boss. I asked about the expectation and normal usage.
It basically makes you monitor and compete with your peers. If one of them never takes time off, then they get extra work, and will be first in line for bonuses, salary raises, promotions, etc. It puts the onus on the employees to sacrifice for who gets more money, especially in salary-based positions.
It was popularized by tech companies that operate in states where PTO balances have to be tracked and paid out if unused at the end of the year (California in particular). They always have a non-trivial percentage of tech staff who just don’t take vacation even if the company culture tries to encourage it as burnout is a real thing. Every year they’d end up paying out almost an extra month to those people. To be fair it’s sometimes abusive practices but as often it’s tech nerds being the stereotype.
On the flip side, they’d get talented engineers coming over from places like India who would ask if they could go home for 4-6 weeks for a big wedding and some extended family visiting. They’d ask for that every few years and not take their full benefit on others but the policy would make that hard to approve.
So they started saying fuck it, we’re just not tracking it. Get your request approved, don’t abuse it, and manage your mental health as we’re not paying you extra to voluntarily burn out.
It depends on the person, I know people who take full advantage of their unlimited pto and take 5/6 multi week vacations every year. And I know other people who take their pto but work on vacation.
My company has unlimited PTO. I’m in a place in life where I want to take full advantage of it, without being completely unreasonable.
Recently asked for 1.5 weeks off for the holidays. This would’ve put me at 5.5 weeks total. Manager respectfully told me I should probably take less time.
There is a stereotype that companies with unlimited PTO make it very difficult for you to use it and you end up taking less PTO than you would at a company that only gave you a finite limit of five weeks.
In reality, it just really depends on your company, or even your manager. There are firms out there that won't say anything when you take 8+ weeks a year, and some out there that start to get stingy when you get close to that five week limit.
In. my previous job they claimed unlimited Vacation time; my first year I asked for my birthday off, and they said they don't count birthdays and to use sick time...I got laid off and didn't get any accrued time...
OP, so your post is not removed, please reply to this comment with your best guess of what this meme means! Everyone else, this is PETER explains the joke. Have fun and reply as your favorite fictional character for top level responses!
I'm currently at a company that has unlimited PTO. I've taken 34 days this year and someone in my team has taken over 40. I think the issue is exclusively American.
Because I only ever took a couple of days off a year and my job rolling PTO over year to year the small company wouldn't have been able to afford me quitting.
It worked out because after my TBI they had to keep me employed for a couple of months so I kept my health insurance even though I couldn't work.
Literally worked for a company that got pissed I took 2 weeks off to spend with my dying grandma “you’ve already taken 80 hours off” bitch I wasn’t on vacation and you god damn know it.
Showing unlimited pto is a way for jobs to obscure how much time you've accumulated so they don't have to pay you out when you leave which is money thats legally yours.
it means they dont have to pay you out when you leave at the end if its unlimited so it comes down to whether or not you can maximizes it and get more than 20 days a year. cause if you cant your usually better with pto that accrues
Easy. A former company I worked at offered 20 days of PTO. They switched to "Unlimited PTO" and it was suddenly "Unlimited PTO, we recommend you take 10-15 days a year!"
My "unlimited" pto translates to their unlimited ability to take it away at the last moment and deny you becauseit is inconvenientto them. Becoming 2 weeks including the holidays and sick days. Then they count it as 4 weeks when they canceled 2 of them and tell you that you need to make it up to them in the new year and that it was unlimited up to 3 weeks and now you need to pay them back for that extra week.
"Unlimited PTO" really means no PTO. You have none on your record, so they don't actually owe you any. If you leave the company for whatever reason, there's no accrued PTO to pay back. It's also too easy for the manager to say no when there's no documentation that they actually owe you PTO.
Companies usually implement it to reduce their liability for this reason. Instead of everyone have 2 weeks of pay owed to them in the event they leave, now that is no longer on the books.
I'm a fucking shift lead at a small plastics extrusion plant. We have VTO ( voluntary time off) and lemme tell yeah, lately it ain't been voluntary...more like...ask who wants a day off and get them out the door asap. If no one wants to leave, pick someone
At my last company if they had offered unlimited PTO I would have been screwed. We were so busy/overwhelmed and behind on every project I would have never gotten a day off unless it was for a dr’a appt.
Currently job, had unlimited PTO and had been fantastic. As long as all my projects have been is “touched” (meaning I’m waiting on info) I can take off.
My co-worker took off for 2 weeks to Germany. Even covering for her daily tasks, I still am out early most days and half day on Friday.
I realize I am incredibly lucky because my boss now is super chill. My last boss made me feel like shit for working from home when I had both Covid and the flu. I was still working, just trying not to infect everyone I work with. I got snarky shitty comments about “not being that sick”. So I showed up to work, looking like death warmed over. All of a sudden everyone starts freaking out, complains to shitty boss. Suddenly shitty boss said “oh you should go home and take the rest of the week off.”
A couple of the people in a layoff at our company had taken like 5-6 weeks of (unlimited) PTO. it occurred to me that there's probably an optimal amount of PTO i can take. For example, if I feel useful and underpaid, I can probably leverage a lot. Either way, maybe I ask my coworkers how much they use and gauge my confidence with my perception of their usefulness.
My company's policy is take what you need - and for the most part we really are able to do so. We have been a work from home company for 20 years (I've been there 10.)
I do find I don't take as much PTO as I probably would if I had a set amount. Based on my previous positions I should have 6 weeks, and I usually take about 4
But, I never call in sick, have plenty of down time when I need it during work hours, so things tend to balance out.
I also acknowledge that I am very lucky in this, and this is the exception, rather than the rule.
I dislike this take because every unlimited PTO job I've had I've taken minimum 25 days off per year, on top of company holidays. Meanwhile 10 days off was standard at other companies.
Unlimited is significantly better, it only sucks if you are too scared to use it because you believe dumb memes like this online
I'm a manager and we have unlimited PTO. I just got an email today from our HR team stating one of my team members took what they consider too much PTO and that I should watch how much I approve.
I work at a company with "unlimited" PTO. My first year there I got yelled at by HR for taking over 20 days off. Turns out the magic number is 20 days. They just say unlimited for the accounting shenanigans. Wish they just said up front that it's 20 days.
I had unlimited PTO in my previous job. In the two years I spent there I managed to take 4 days off. The manager always had a "good" reason why now is a bad time to take time off. When I left they did not have to pay for the surplus of days off I should've had.
It’s a way for older companies to erase accumulated time off that is normally paid out once you leave or retire. It’s also dependent on work load. Have too much work, better think twice about taking the time off.
![[ Removed by moderator ]](https://i.redd.it/ofscyd727w6g1.jpeg){kind=link}
This joke has already been posted recently. Rule 2.
Most jobs with unlimited PTO heavily discourage you from using any of it to the extent that most people have less PTO than if they had a set amount of days.
Yeah, it's basically entirely down to how chill your boss is at that point. If you have an excellent boss and you're a good contributor it can actually be unlimited, but if those things aren't true you probably can't get a day off to save your life (literally).
And when you leave the job they don't have to pay out any sick time or pto to u
This is the real reason
I mean they don't have to even if they give you a set amount of time
This depends on the labor laws where you are. In a few states your PTO is considered part of your compensation and you are legally entitled to it when you leave the company.
But if your PTO bank is “empty” they owe you nothing when you leave.
Unlimited PTO is becoming common in software which I dread. I often carry 3-4 weeks of PTO balance and that’s a solid paycheck when I change jobs. In future it’ll mean I get nothing in addition to negative job performance feedback for using vacation time.
Right, but that doesn’t change that in those states, if you don’t use your PTO, you get paid out. That doesn’t happen with unlimited PTO, whether you spend it or not.
Yeah, the key is that with unlimited PTO, you aren't "accruing" PTO hours with each paycheck. When I got laid off during COVID, I had like 200hrs saved up that I was paid out for asking with severance. It made a significant difference.
You guys are both arguing the same side lmao
It also depends on if it's worth pursuing. I left a job about a year ago and had 20 something hours in my PTO bank and it never got paid out to me even though it should have. But I wasn't going to get a lawyer over it in hopes I would get paid it plus lawyer fees. Many companies just get away with it because of that
As an engineering manager - I’d rather you just use your PTO, because rest and recuperation are important for mental and physical health. Rested employees are the most effective employees.
Also - meta gaming this a bit. If everyone uses their PTO, it makes it easier for me to justify requests to expand the team and hire more people.
You’re not a short-sighted dickhole; how’d you make management?!
Shockingly enough, if you’re willing to set your own ego aside for a beat, it’s actually significantly easier to be a good manager than a bad one.
Some people just can’t do that one, simple thing, though.
I wonder how much ratings even mean as one is not on the chopping block.
Got the highest rating for 7 years. Probably meant I got a 2.5% cost of living raise instead of a 2.3% raise.
Shouldn’t have worked so damn hard…
Eventually found a better place.
This was why I always heard the trend of "unlimited" began. A lot of tech companies are based in California, which has more worker-friendly laws. California is one of the states that requires the unused PTO balance to be paid out. How do you not have a PTO balance? Make it "unlimited".
I don’t know what the laws are now in California. But the last time I worked for a California company, we had “unlimited” PTO. But for legal reasons, there was a floor and you got paid out the balance if you didn’t hit the floor.
just curious, does that mean if you took two weeks of PTO but the “floor” was three weeks, you’d get the difference of one week paid out?
Exactly.
So with that logic you get a forever paycheck with unlimited PTO.
I want this lawsuit to happen. Suddenly a company is bankrupt because they owe an employee forever wages for simply being employed. Then every other employee applies for it and now the CEO is forever in debt.
Unlimited PTO is a trap that allows employers to go around these laws. Because you don't accrue time off they are not forced to pay you anything if your employment ends for any reason. Company where I used to work changed to unlimited PTO after getting acquired by an EF and they never paid any owed money to anyone. All this in a state with the laws you are mentioning.
What shithole country do you live in where it's legal for companies to not pay out your remaining PTO when you leave?
The US? Lol I’m in Washington state and it’s not required by law here. I’ve only worked at one company that did it
to be fair the US is a shithole of a country.
The most developed third world country.
WA state as well. Most companies do it if you give them a 2 week notice but there's no law requiring them to
The weird thing is that the one company that actually paid it out for me was the place I got fired from 😂
WA state here as well, leaving my job in the new year. They have no obligation to pay it out under law, but they are legally bound to follow the policies in the employee handbook. So check your handbook so you’ll know what to expect. (Wishing we would just pass a law mandating payout.)
Utah also doesn't require it to be paid out.
Neither does Kansas although my previous job actually did pay out my PTO.
damn, what a shithole state
thankfully it is illegal to not pay PTO in IL
its how i got away from UHC with a bit of tome to recover
we did not have unlimited PTO- i think its a jackass “workaround” by the C suite
When you leave the company yes. However that doesn't stop shady shit companies from Republican states from changing your accrual policy so it takes the entire year to accrue pro you can't use. Been there, in fact they won't pay out unused pro yearly at all, if you don't get down to under a week which is what roles over it's just gone... Their legal department had several fights with employees after the takeover and the company managed to cover their own ass but we loss employees and for sure I know they didn't follow IL law for the first year... Fucking circus.
God bless the USA
It’s always the US, isn’t it?
Slaves= Indentured servitude = US employment
It's gotten better, little steps to big milestones.
MURICA
In Oregon they have to pay you any PTO you have banked
Same in California.
Some countries it’s the law. I got paid out around $12000 when I left a long-term job a few years ago but I am from Australia when this is law.
In many states they're required to pay it out if you accrued it
But they want to look competitive to attract and retain talent. The more PTO they award the more debt they essentially have hanging out and paying it out when employees leave or during a buy out period is typical with generous plans, which again, exist to attract talent. Unlimited isn’t a debt, can’t be paid out and sounds better on paper.
This hurts actually loyal employees. Like... the people who won't take no for an answer, will always show up, no matter what.
Those people accrued 120 hours of PTO and 40 hours of STO, at our last job.
Imagine getting a giant check for your last 2 weeks + 3 more weeks, and depending on the rules 1 week from sick time.
If youre at $20/hr thats $5k.
Police detective here: I joined my department when I was 18 (civilian) and then sworn at 21. I’ll be able to retire at 43 with a full pension. When we retire we get paid out for 440 (max) hours of sick, if you leave with 90% of possible sick time accrued you get free health insurance (which means you basically didn’t take more than about 2 weeks in 25 years), cash out 225 hours (max) of comp time (PTO), plus option to either burn your vacations before final retirement date or just take the cash payout.
All this to say, never ~really~ getting into the private sector, it’s crazy to me that there’s a vast majority of people that have to fight this fight. Positions with the mirage of flexibility or positions where you’re just fucked from the start.
Urban cop life has its long list of challenges but you’ll never see me complain about not being able to take off (except traditional holidays or summer weekends lol). Bless you guys that have to ride that struggle buss, that sucks. :/
How many dogs have you killed?
Sigh. I graduated from police foundations when I was younger and then didnt become a cop. All my friends look at me and say yea that was probably for the best, youre too gentle and uncompetitive to do that for long. Then my friend started dating a wicca and when secondary education came up as a topic she sneered at me and said DiD tHeY tEaCh YoU tO bE fAsCiSt? and then got mad when I replied I must have been sick that day.
That level of dumb edgy fuckface energy? Thats what you sound like right now.
And here we see the strength of unions.
Is this a real comment or a troll comment?
https://preview.redd.it/d4uppket1y6g1.jpeg?width=251&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b18566f7a8f64b33aac019222b1bf4e8358f8123
Watch out an acorn is falling near you!
You a Seattle cop?
No they should have to pay me out unlimited money
They do in the UK, because there’s a statutory minimum.
That said, I have DTO at my company, and I take about 8-12 weeks off per year, depending on my needs 🤷♂️ nobody gives a fuck and it’s a major incentive to stay there tbh.
But if you want to quit the job, couldn't you instead take as many pto as you want until they lay you off, and you could collect severance?
No, because PTO has to get approved, so you would be able to get fired the first day you didnt show up without approval. Also you dont get severance for termination with cause, so they dont have to give you anything
Right, but up until the point where they decide to deny the request, you would be getting paid for a job you already have decided never to return to.
Lots of companies don’t pay out PTO when you quit even with a normal PTO policy. It’s totally up to what they can legally get away with in whatever state they are in.
My last company was like this so I made sure to take 2 weeks off using up all my PTO and then quit right when I got back.
Yeah fuck that. When I got made redundant from my last job I got $20,000 of leave paid out.
And that is why they do that. In some states, PTO is legally compensation if you acrue it. Unlimited PTO removes the legal requirement for the company to pay it out.
Yup!!! This is 100% the real reason. Had an HR person at my old company tell me this.
No, they have to pay you for your unlimited sick days. Infinite money glitch.
The whole concept of having a given number of 'allowed' sick days is bizarre to say the least. And I don't say this as someone that is off sick often - I've had one day off in three years - but if you're too sick to work, you're too sick to work. It's that simple.
It's like saying there's a limit on the number of days where it's allowed to rain.
I guess I got lucky with a chill boss. The other day I asked my boss if I could work half days on Thursday’s and Friday’s for a while to help my someone in my family who doctors say may make it to Christmas or may not. Then she says “you’ve only taken 6 days off since you started this year, you should just take the rest of the month off to be with your family because that’s more important, and that’s what I would do if I were in your situation”.
Only taking six days off though kinda underlines the issue though. You've only taken one day off every other month.
I’m over being a exec chef lthinking that sounds nice.
This reads like a LinkedIn lunatic post about someone humble bragging about how little time off they take.
With only six days off you should be able to take all of desember off, without a reason.
I don’t know what these other responses are even trying to say to this. Your boss pointed out that you ONLY took six days off this year, they literally pointed out that you worked too much and gave you more days/time off than you requested. You have a good boss, fuck these weirdos trying to spin it as a bad thing.
This is very true, it can go both ways. I have unlimited PTO but I work with a great boss and a great group of people, last year I took off about 7 weeks and this year about 6 weeks. It all comes down to making sure the work is being done and we always cover for each other when someone is taking time off.
Yeah, I had roughly 60 days of paid vacation a year (my boss did too). I was the most productive I've ever been and my work was the highest quality it's ever been. Manager got tired of BS from our new overlords and stepped down and we got a new manager that immediately told me that if I go on vacation, I'm not allowed to take anymore for the rest of the year, and that everyone on the team will have to be working more and vacationing less. Productivity of that team was at an all time low under him. I quit
People work best when they are fresh.
People work worst when they are tired.
Keep your employees fresh!
Even if your boss is the coolest dude. How much PTO are you gonna end up taking anyway, every year. Yeah maybe 1 year you might take 30 PTOs for some reason or even 40 but it is ignorant to think that unlimited PTO depends on boss. Yeah it depends on boss but even then you would hardly end up taking more than 30 AT MAX, average 20 per year. The thing is, with unlimited PTO the guilt is on you to take PTO. With fix set of PTOs, most people end of using it by the end of the year because they have few left.
I have unlimited and I think as long as there is a reasonable request there isn't a problem. I'm not requesting off a month of time or just taking off Fridays when I want. I think as long as my days are requested off in advance, they align with commonly requested days, and there's not too many wildcard days I'm okay. I have respectful management.
I have 8 direct reports at a company with unlimited pto. I sometimes have to nag these ppl to use their PTO. At least when it was fixed, there was a sense of urgency to use them before they were lost.
That’s why it’s much better to just have a generous but limited PTO policy. Clear, easier to plan around for both the employer and employee, and much less likelihood of employer abuse.
My boss is chill with us limited vacation. I just started a 3 week vacation now for the holidays and I took several days and weeks throughout the year.
Or at least that’s the perception. There are companies with reasonable minimums. Dropbox I think had a 3 week minimum, plus lots of paid holidays.
That said- my husband was put on a pip right after taking his paternity leave at google. So it really depends.
What's a pip
Performance Improvement Plan
Usually if you get a pip it’s a sign they will fire you soon.
Not always, I've been put on pip multiple times and they always find an excuse to let me stay.
It’s paperwork to get you fired
Personal Improvement Plan.
It's step one of the paper trail when a company is looking to safely and legally fire you.
It's basically a written document they make you sign that says "I will do X , Y and Z and if I don't I understand that there will be escalating consequences'
Usually you get your PiP which is something unreasonable or very hard for you to stick to. Then when you inevitably fail at the PIP. (Which they want) You get a Written Warning. Which again they make you sign acknowledging you know it exists.
And then finally they fire you. And if you try to apply for unemployment they can say no see look. We have all this documentation showing that this person didn't do the things we asked them to! (No matter how unreasonable/difficult to accomplish those things were)
Just know. In most cases. If you get put on a PIP they're trying to get rid of you.
The worst thing to happen to the tech industry. An “improvement plan” that’s just a gentle firing. All engineers I know hate it, all managers hate it. It’s just pure capitalist greed in action. Awful long term (higher turnover, higher tech debt, less experienced engineers) but it gives shareholders a short term boost to the bottom line earlier in its implementation.
Performance Improvement Plan - - It means they are starting a paper trail to fire you for "performance issues". Never knew of anyone put on a PIP who made it more than 18 months and that one was a bit of a fluke, as we were stretched pretty thin.
Thing for installing python apps
Prepare Interview Pants
Ugh, I’m so sorry for your husband. That is incredibly sick of the company to do. My husband complains that even though his company gives paternity, “the culture is to not take it” and I think I’m starting to understand. But wtf
"reasonable minimum" and "3 weeks" in one sentence is wild. Legal minimum is 5 weeks in Germany and 6 is pretty much the standard.
*4 weeks is the legal minimum. But yeah, 6 weeks is the standard, and Germans also got way more public holidays, which work like additional PTO on top of that
The reason they do it is so they don’t need cash on hand to pay out people’s PTO if they leave
It's been shown that workers of companies with "unlimited PTO" actually take LESS time off.
Can confirm, been at a tech company for 4 years now. In that time I’ve averaged 7-8 days leave a year, I would have at least 15 days in PTO at any other company I worked for and in many 21 days PTO that I always used up or got paid back for when I was leaving the job. Been a super rip off
Edit: based in Pakistan
IME this is because of the "use it or lose it" nature.
I've worked at so many jobs where at the EOY everyone took a few weeks off that they wouldn't have otherwise just because PTO was a limited resource.
When you create artificial scarcity, you also create demand.
Glad I work for a big tech company who encourages to take at least 4 weeks off a year, which I do.
Last year I took like… 6 weeks off.
It depends. I have unlimited PTO from my company and have never been discouraged from using it. I have worked at the same place for a decade and I take off 50+ days a year. In fact, I am off now until the 5th of January. Every year I essentially take off all of December
Enjoy it while you can, my company was also unlimited PTO for 9 years and they just switched it to 15 this year. I was so spoiled. I know 15 is way more than many, but now it feels like nothing
I once had a job that gave me unlimited PTO. Used it and booked a week off after the X-mas/New Year break because I was moving to a different state and wanted to unpack and get my new licence sorted (since the different state requires a different driver's licence), as well as other stuff that requres introducing myself or updating my details IN PERSON.
Boss messaged me during the X-mas/New Year's break asking if I could come back early, and I was like, "Why do you have to take a week off after moving?" and since it was an international company and my boss wasn't from my country, I had to explain that I was moving. The place where i can renew my license is only open on weekedays and my partner is the only one who could take me there because he has a valid license and i "technically" didn't.
He was bamboozled. Also, he approved that leave like months ago. Everyone knew I was moving (the job was open to remote working), and I guess they didn't understand what makes moving in my country different from theirs.
Exactly...I have a job with set leave and limits on how much I can carry over, and my supervisor is always reminding people to use the time they can't carry over
With unlimited - I have a feeling instead of PTO requests being seen mostly as a formality, PTO is really going to be at their discretion. Also, they will use it to have the employees be at each other's throats. If sorry, Carole already put in for that week... Yeah I know she was off for the last holiday week as well, but she did or in her request off first...
OR it's not a American job, in a country where workers actually have real rights
This, if you have unlimited, might as well have none. Tracking them normalizes uses them. I’ve had jobs with both and this is 100% true
I don’t think it’s true that you are heavily discouraged. It’s more an internal pressure aspect. When you have fixed PTO, it’s easier to feel justified in taking it. When you have unlimited PTO, some (though not all) people feel more uncertain or cagey about using it.
My job has unlimited PTO. I take six weeks off (in either 2 three weeks or 3 two weeks) a year plus a few days here or there if I need them. It’s been that way since I started and I’ve been at this company for almost 4 years now.
Unlimited PTO only benefits the company in most cases:
the overwhelming majority of Americans never use their full PTO under a standard accrual plan, so unlimited PTO isn’t likely to become a realized benefit.
PTO in most cases is a legally accrued benefit. It’s owed to you as wages. It also becomes a liability in the business’ financial reporting. By removing the accrual of PTO and making it “unlimited” they don’t have to track it and therefore the company looks financially healthier on paper.
Most unlimited PTO policies have manager approval as a caveat. You might also have to be in good standing with the company to take it. So if you’ve been “written up” or are on a PIP, guess who’s not getting their PTO approved?
This could also be a salary gig. Sure, you may have "regular hours," but as long as business needs are met, you might not have to work a full 40 and the company just uses "unlimited PTO" to keep track of when you're actually on site. A few of the managers I've had have had systems like that, hell, one of them worked about 20 hours a week.
Eta: spelling
Just got onto my first salary job and this is exactly how the unlimited PTO works. Our work load can fluctuate from crazy busy to pretty dead.
First full time job was a salaried position at a University. Definitely had some weeks I worked 20 hours (probably some weeks when school was on break), but also had weeks I worked 70+ hours.
My first salaried job was catering manager for weddings. I did literally fuck all in March. NO ONE gets married in March. I could be 'on the clock' literally playing neopets or working in my garden. As long as my phone was on, I was good.
During peak seasons though I had no life, so the downtime kind of made up for it. could fuck around, take a spontaneous trip, show up at different work locations for fun. Miss that job, don't work miss the peak seasons though.
I have a salary gig and that is not how our unlimited PTO works
Had a 'boss' that did maybe 15 hours a work a week, but those 15 hours of work were usually flying all around the country to do deals with people that allowed us to actually work.
Essentially his 15 hours made the company more money than 1000 of my own.
So yeah I'd believe it.
If you have a boss thats a clock watcher it doesn't matter if you're done at 30 or 40 or 50 hours. You have to sit there and look busy until the acceptable leaving time hits.
I worked 55hrs+ for weeks on end and left one week at 39.5 hours and got docked a half day's PTO by that clock gazer. Needless to say I sat at my desk and did fuckall until I got a new job after that.
Id add even if you hit the jackpot and get a manager who will approve everything, you're still probably not going to take enough to come out positive. I've worked at companies with a cap to the amount of pto you can carry over year over year so it effectively forces workaholics to take a vacation. Not happening with unlimited PTO, so it could lead to overall unhealthier work habits.
I’ve had careers with both but I honestly prefer the unlimited PTO model. Personally I never have much PTO accrued when I leave a company so it hasn’t been any kind of huge benefit. And I take time throughout the year. I took all week of Thanksgiving off and as for winter my last day is 12/19 and I return to work 1/5. I have two big trips planned for next year already and some smaller ones where I’ll be taking PTO. I’ve never had an issue with getting it approved, at my job if you can get it in early enough for planning purposes it’s basically guaranteed to get approved. And even if it’s short notice they will work with you to make sure the client work gets coverage. I have had coworkers take 4-6 week vacations, albeit the company had plenty of advance notice.
I know I won’t get paid anything when I leave - but especially having a young child I much prefer the flexibility. We had to cut an upcoming Florida trip a day short because my husband ran out of PTO at his job.
I’m in this same boat, last two jobs before my current were unlimited PTO, When I moved to my current job, I lost all of that and had to restart with only two weeks. I’ve got young kids in sports and other various activities, two weeks ain’t shit when you commit to being at everything for your kids.
I'm so thankful that my job has unlimited PTO with a minimum mandatory usage. It's because we have global employees who live in places where they get a mandatory 30 days, so the company matches that for everyone... Where 30 days is the minimum mandatory PTO for everyone
I think you aren't using "hit a jackpot" correctly. I essentially have taken a month plus of PTO every year since my company has switched to unlimited PTO. Beats the 2 weeks PTO most places give and my company used to give.
I understand the sentiment of people who don't take enough PTO when unlimited, but unlimited PTO at its best is way better than accrued PTO.
I use absolutely every minute of PTO and sick time I'm given. I currently have 0 PTO left and 0.56 hours of sick time left for 2025, and you best believe I'm leaving 33 minutes early one day in the next couple weeks.
It's so insane to me that you guys have a pool of sick time... As if that's a planneable event.
Brainwashed ants in a hive made of late stage capitalism
Capitalistic countries also have no "pool of sick time", this is an USA thing
I have coworkers who call in "sick" at least one day every week of the year. It's because of people like them that companies are forced to limit the amount of sick time they give.
Sick time is also generally usable for medical appointments. It’s usually more lenient too (in my experience), and protects your standard PTO from being wasted if you get sick. The jobs I’ve had with sick time usually also afforded the same amount of PTO as the jobs I’ve had without it.
What I mean is that the rest of the developed world just gets basically unlimited coverage of this for free. I am EU and if you’re sick you don’t use up any ”days” and you get paid as if you had been working. You’re free to leave work - while being paid - for medical appointments.
To add onto that:
How do you not use your full annual leave? Like it rolls over to the next year anyway right?
No, most jobs only let a certain amount roll over.
My last job and my current job limit it to 40 hours. Some jobs will add some extra requirements too, like my current job requires that the roll over days be used before the end of April.
Brian pretending to be an activist for the proletariat to sleep with a woke chick here. Unlimited PTO is a scam cooked up by someone in HR who figured out if you don’t have clearly defined rules around earning PTO then a company doesn’t have to pay you an accrued balance when you leave. AND they don’t have to approve any requests at all, so there’s zero chance for you to abuse it and unlimited chances for them to abuse you.
The average employee either takes the same or fewer days off, the try hard boot lickers take dramatically less, and when the company decides to lay them all off and offshore the jobs under the guise of AI adoption they don’t have to cut any checks.
I think it's such a bullshit rule. If you have unlimited PTO than the company should have to compensate you an unlimited amount for your unlimited PTO balance when you leave.
Economists hate this one simple trick
Well I feel this just should be fixed by setting the minimum amount of PTO(like 20 working days in many countries), preferably this should be made by government and not companies
Am HR and can confirm! You know what unlimited PTO also does? Allows people (well, I mean executives so technically not people) who feel like no one can touch them to take full advantage of the policy while not tolerating their direct reports let alone anyone else like say the people who make minimum wage to benefit from the same policy and ask me how I know.
I worked a job that had unlimited PTO, the policy was just “make sure that you’re not leaving your coworkers in a bad position in your absence,” and you’re not gonna believe this, but there was never a good time for it. We were always “so busy” that it was next to impossible to get a 4 day weekend.
Many companies have moved to a “unlimited PTO” model because ironically people take less time off with unlimited PTO than a fixed amount.. The psychology is that if everyone knows they have X days off a year, they will use X days. But if they have “unlimited” days off, then they feel peer pressured to not use too much.
...especially if you're in one of those "use it or lose it" situations.
the company also isn't responsible for paying out your accrued leave when you quit
Unlimited PTO is actually bad since if you take too much, people will start to raise an eyebrow. Sure it's legally right, but is it "corporate right"? Where so called "teamwork" matters? This is true in Asian culture, not sure about elsewhere. If you have limited PTO, people won't bother you since it's essentially your own quota but unlimited PTO have this idea that such quota can be abused, people who take too much are lazy, etc
Though TBH, if it was me I would take it whenever I like since y'all mf don't have a life and I would spend my rest day heavy-duty gooning.
I would use it and have a 7 day week-end every week
Exactly, if they raised eyebrows I'll just mention, my task is completed and I need to rest 🙄.
We have to show them that we will get our right 💪🔥
As long as its for gooning, take as much time as you need.
^ This guy gets it ^ 😏😎
I have worked at two companies with unlimited PTO.
One was harsh and there was a lot of judgement around PTO and it felt like a scam.
My current role is flexible and focused on my output rather than “days I am in my chair”. My boss encourages time off as long as my responsibilities are met.
I have unlimited. I took 7 weeks off so far this year. I’m taking the 2 weeks around Christmas until after new years. It’s great.
Yes if you are interviewing for a job with unlimited PTO you need to vibe it out. Usually there will be an interview with your coworkers (not management) and that's when I ask all the juicy questions including how much PTO they take, how often it's rejected, how many hours they work in an average day, etc
While yes you are losing things like vacation pay out (depending on your state) having unlimited sick time is a major game changer if you have a chronic illness. Limited sick time and especially combined sick and vacation time are a fucking scam too
Yep I’m also going to hit 7 weeks for 2025 and have three full weeks coming up. Enjoy your break!
I'm guessing it's that the boss has to approve it and the boss is harsh? idk what else it could be
Would also assume that it means when he quits since he has unlimited PTO he wont get paid out for any unused PTO
No, he would get paid infinite money. Checkmate!
That wouldn’t be much different from any job where your PTO needs to be approved. Unlimited PTO generally dissuades people from using as much time off as if you were given a bank of hours/days to pull from.
When I started at my current job that has unlimited, I just said it out loud during my initial 1:1 with my boss. I asked about the expectation and normal usage.
It basically makes you monitor and compete with your peers. If one of them never takes time off, then they get extra work, and will be first in line for bonuses, salary raises, promotions, etc. It puts the onus on the employees to sacrifice for who gets more money, especially in salary-based positions.
It was popularized by tech companies that operate in states where PTO balances have to be tracked and paid out if unused at the end of the year (California in particular). They always have a non-trivial percentage of tech staff who just don’t take vacation even if the company culture tries to encourage it as burnout is a real thing. Every year they’d end up paying out almost an extra month to those people. To be fair it’s sometimes abusive practices but as often it’s tech nerds being the stereotype.
On the flip side, they’d get talented engineers coming over from places like India who would ask if they could go home for 4-6 weeks for a big wedding and some extended family visiting. They’d ask for that every few years and not take their full benefit on others but the policy would make that hard to approve.
So they started saying fuck it, we’re just not tracking it. Get your request approved, don’t abuse it, and manage your mental health as we’re not paying you extra to voluntarily burn out.
It depends on the person, I know people who take full advantage of their unlimited pto and take 5/6 multi week vacations every year. And I know other people who take their pto but work on vacation.
My company has unlimited PTO. I’m in a place in life where I want to take full advantage of it, without being completely unreasonable.
Recently asked for 1.5 weeks off for the holidays. This would’ve put me at 5.5 weeks total. Manager respectfully told me I should probably take less time.
You don’t know the limit, unless you push it haha
There is a stereotype that companies with unlimited PTO make it very difficult for you to use it and you end up taking less PTO than you would at a company that only gave you a finite limit of five weeks.
In reality, it just really depends on your company, or even your manager. There are firms out there that won't say anything when you take 8+ weeks a year, and some out there that start to get stingy when you get close to that five week limit.
1) Get a "serious health condition" or a child, spouse, or parent with one.
2) Take time off under FMLA, up to 12 weeks.
3) Burn unlimited PTO as part of it.
4) Checkmate.
In. my previous job they claimed unlimited Vacation time; my first year I asked for my birthday off, and they said they don't count birthdays and to use sick time...I got laid off and didn't get any accrued time...
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Unlimited PTO means it's a bad company?
Friend just got this at work and was trying to explain to me how fucked it is
I'm currently at a company that has unlimited PTO. I've taken 34 days this year and someone in my team has taken over 40. I think the issue is exclusively American.
Question for Americans, where this is common, is PTO paid? Like if you take PTO is it paid like a holiday?
Just quit or let them fire you and go home and be happy being useless that’s what I’d do found more clarity doing this than when I went out.
I used to have a job with unlimited sick days. They never wrote it into the employee handbook. I took full advantage of that.
My company swapped to unlimited this year, and I def used less than the year before
Because I only ever took a couple of days off a year and my job rolling PTO over year to year the small company wouldn't have been able to afford me quitting.
It worked out because after my TBI they had to keep me employed for a couple of months so I kept my health insurance even though I couldn't work.
Literally worked for a company that got pissed I took 2 weeks off to spend with my dying grandma “you’ve already taken 80 hours off” bitch I wasn’t on vacation and you god damn know it.
Showing unlimited pto is a way for jobs to obscure how much time you've accumulated so they don't have to pay you out when you leave which is money thats legally yours.
it means they dont have to pay you out when you leave at the end if its unlimited so it comes down to whether or not you can maximizes it and get more than 20 days a year. cause if you cant your usually better with pto that accrues
Easy. A former company I worked at offered 20 days of PTO. They switched to "Unlimited PTO" and it was suddenly "Unlimited PTO, we recommend you take 10-15 days a year!"
My "unlimited" pto translates to their unlimited ability to take it away at the last moment and deny you becauseit is inconvenientto them. Becoming 2 weeks including the holidays and sick days. Then they count it as 4 weeks when they canceled 2 of them and tell you that you need to make it up to them in the new year and that it was unlimited up to 3 weeks and now you need to pay them back for that extra week.
I had unlimited PTO once .... Made a work call and sent an email from an ER gurney. Good times.
I think is mostly so that they don't pay you accrued PTO when they let you go. Last check will be hella small.
Difference is PTO as a right, or a privilege you have to beg for.
"Unlimited PTO" really means no PTO. You have none on your record, so they don't actually owe you any. If you leave the company for whatever reason, there's no accrued PTO to pay back. It's also too easy for the manager to say no when there's no documentation that they actually owe you PTO.
Companies usually implement it to reduce their liability for this reason. Instead of everyone have 2 weeks of pay owed to them in the event they leave, now that is no longer on the books.
It is so they don't have to pay you when you quit, but they pitch it as a perk. 100% a company savings.
Cool I can take 365 days off and they will still pay me!
I'm a fucking shift lead at a small plastics extrusion plant. We have VTO ( voluntary time off) and lemme tell yeah, lately it ain't been voluntary...more like...ask who wants a day off and get them out the door asap. If no one wants to leave, pick someone
They couldn't make me not use it
At my last company if they had offered unlimited PTO I would have been screwed. We were so busy/overwhelmed and behind on every project I would have never gotten a day off unless it was for a dr’a appt.
Currently job, had unlimited PTO and had been fantastic. As long as all my projects have been is “touched” (meaning I’m waiting on info) I can take off.
My co-worker took off for 2 weeks to Germany. Even covering for her daily tasks, I still am out early most days and half day on Friday.
I realize I am incredibly lucky because my boss now is super chill. My last boss made me feel like shit for working from home when I had both Covid and the flu. I was still working, just trying not to infect everyone I work with. I got snarky shitty comments about “not being that sick”. So I showed up to work, looking like death warmed over. All of a sudden everyone starts freaking out, complains to shitty boss. Suddenly shitty boss said “oh you should go home and take the rest of the week off.”
A couple of the people in a layoff at our company had taken like 5-6 weeks of (unlimited) PTO. it occurred to me that there's probably an optimal amount of PTO i can take. For example, if I feel useful and underpaid, I can probably leverage a lot. Either way, maybe I ask my coworkers how much they use and gauge my confidence with my perception of their usefulness.
My company's policy is take what you need - and for the most part we really are able to do so. We have been a work from home company for 20 years (I've been there 10.)
I do find I don't take as much PTO as I probably would if I had a set amount. Based on my previous positions I should have 6 weeks, and I usually take about 4
But, I never call in sick, have plenty of down time when I need it during work hours, so things tend to balance out.
I also acknowledge that I am very lucky in this, and this is the exception, rather than the rule.
I dislike this take because every unlimited PTO job I've had I've taken minimum 25 days off per year, on top of company holidays. Meanwhile 10 days off was standard at other companies.
Unlimited is significantly better, it only sucks if you are too scared to use it because you believe dumb memes like this online
If you even try to use it, they throw you out a 12th story window.
Late stage capitalism yo
My cousin had that as well when he was stationed in a public gym for his paycheck, had alot of fun working out with him and his airborne crew.
Oh you sweet summer child.
I'm a manager and we have unlimited PTO. I just got an email today from our HR team stating one of my team members took what they consider too much PTO and that I should watch how much I approve.
I work at a company with "unlimited" PTO. My first year there I got yelled at by HR for taking over 20 days off. Turns out the magic number is 20 days. They just say unlimited for the accounting shenanigans. Wish they just said up front that it's 20 days.
I had unlimited PTO in my previous job. In the two years I spent there I managed to take 4 days off. The manager always had a "good" reason why now is a bad time to take time off. When I left they did not have to pay for the surplus of days off I should've had.
It’s a way for older companies to erase accumulated time off that is normally paid out once you leave or retire. It’s also dependent on work load. Have too much work, better think twice about taking the time off.