Utah passed a similar law last year. I don't know anyone who's actually taking advantage of it yet but it's as easy as placing up to 3 solar panels facing the sun, connecting to micro inverters and plugging into an outlet.
I already have rooftop solar. But I was thinking about buying 3 used panels for next to nothing and adding them to my house
I think it's just taking a bit for companies to develop/verify they will be compliant with the law. Sales will pick up when people see how easy it is and quick to payoff the investment.
I don't know anyone who's actually taking advantage of it yet
Back-feeding on a 60Hz plug isn't something that we have built standards around yet. Sellers are going to want to be able to get UL certifications, etc and we didn't (don't still?) have approved standards for doing it on the US grid.
We can legalize them, but no one will build if it's still against electrical standards to sell it.
Those are different than the balcony solar models that are available and widely used in Europe and elsewhere.
It costs significantly more, which limits adoption.
But, yes, it is coming and available in early forms in Utah because Utah law specifically said “these are the standards we will use for this since NEC is being too slow”.
Plugs themselves are rated for 15A-20A on both lugs and you don't use special breakers for solar panels systems just higher amps, I don't see much of a point to getting UL certs for just feeding in less than standard outlet amperage.
Uh, I don’t think you understand the point I’m making here.
You absolutely do need the inverter from the panels to detect the grid, and then synchronize before outputting on the plug, and it only outputting certain amounts. And electrical code standards are how you determine how to build equipment to do that.
The thing is that American electrical code doesn’t have provisions and rules yet for amperage on wiring and safety standards for wiring in walls on plugs being backed and how to declare safe before energizing and how quick you must de-energize. Like Germany requires under-rating current on the backed wire due to some nuances about how power and resistance can be expressed on in-between the circuit runs that it’s present when power is Uni-directional to plugs. Something that we don’t have specified yet in the US.
It’s not simply “pulling less from a plug”, it’s back feeding power into one plug somewhere in your house so that your fridge in another location can use it, for example.
We still need a grid. What’s going to happen is grids are going to charge sky high “connection” fees just to have service even if you don’t use any of it.
Which then incentivizes distributed generation even stronger.
I think the neighborhood grid will stay. But they may disconnect from the main grid. Backups/emergency reserves running on chemical energy are nasty things to deal with.
Run your neighborhood with local wind and solar resources solving everything but emergency reserves with storage.
Then have a diesel/gas turbine/fuel cell/"20X0 solution" running on carbon neutral fuel for the emergency reserve.
See this almost 10 year old pilot project in southern sweden for a village running in islanded mode with 100% renewable energy:
i think we will def move this way but maybe never totally abandon the current model. at least not in my lifetime. look at fossil fuels or tobacco to see how long powerful interests can hang on despite far better market solutions. that said, the idea that there could be smaller towns in more remote locations that could just do this soup to nuts is incredible. battery tech and solar are a real revolution for the globe.
You have to look at it from the perspective of incentives. We tend to overestimate the change in a year and underestmate the the change over a decade.
Fossil fuels has been the cheapest near infinitely scalable energy source for the past centuries. That is why you haven't seen them dissappear. They are the price floor when the question of "I need energy" is raised.
Some locales have been lucky in having hydro or geothermal. But those are famously "geographically limited".
With renewables we now have a new cheapeast near infinitely scalable energy source.
Looking at H1 2025 renewables met 109% of grid capacity expansion globally. Given that grid assets has lifetimes counted in 20-40 years we can expect nearly all fossil infrastructure in the grid to dissappear in that time. That is the baseline scenario.
But since renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels there is currently an enormous ongoing global race. If you can apply renewables to a field currently limited by fossil fuel costs you have an advantage.
Meaning the transition will for the vast majority of usecases likely create a whole host of stranded fossil assets losing their market.
True but like government is bought and paid for. Clear example is not being able to buy a chinese ev in the states. That is held up as an auto industry concern but its a fossil fuel lobby concern. Private interests will hold on to the bitter end.
You think it’s that? You sure there’s not some other, much more plausible reason we’re not going to import a bunch of complex technology from a major adversary that loves spying on us and stealing our tech?
I've been decoupled from the grid due to power outages for a few days and just ran electrical from my EV. For the year I produce more electricity than I use.
And now we're seeing much cheaper rechargeable batteries coming in the next few years, so neighborhood grids will just make more sense.
We will still have big grids for industry and commercial applications, but the power generation market is going to shrink.
These plug in devices are extremely popular in Germany and millions of them are already installed. They pay off itself in only a few years, while having a lifetime of 20 years or more.
What prevents these solar panels from back feeding into the system during a power outage and electrifying downed lines? Usually solar systems with batteries that are designed to handle power failures have automatic grid disconnects to prevent electrifying the grid in a dangerous manner.
In /r/RenewableEnergy there's a long discussion on "anti-islanding". These inverters are grid-following and are certified to disconnect when losing the synchronization with the grid.
Some have an outlet on the unit itself that always provide power (well, when the sun is shining) so that you can plug a small item into that directly and for example charge a mobile phone or laptop even when the power is out.
But right, they do not backfeed electricity to your local grid when the power is out.
I wish all states does this, and hopefully for Florida where I live. Would give me/people a piece of mind if a hurricane comes by and swap the panels to a battery bank so we can still have equipment on in the day and/or conserve it for the night.
I did some calculations and to have 1200 watt solar on my house would equate to ~1850 kWh per year.
Same, I’m over here in Arizona salivating at this idea because I can’t afford the $10,000+ solar install on our house but would get plug in solar in a heartbeat.
BYE BYE DEPENDENCY!
This is a huge step for the citizens to get energy independence, and help to transform the world into renewable powered, rather than powered by the dirty coal, dirty O&G, and corrupt, dirty & Toxic nuclear industries!
And horrifyingly expensive. Western new built nuclear power comes in at ~18-24 cents/kWh excluding backup, transmission costs, waste disposal, taxes etc. based on EPR2, FV3, Vogtle, HPC, Polish AP1000 etc.
With the grid becoming distributed foisting the costs for new built nuclear subsidies on the ratepayers will become a no-go.
Wrong.
Ask the 117 sq miles of still-closed off land in Fukushima.
Not scared, just observant of an industry that is just a tax payer grift, that results in a huge perpetual debt.
Utah passed a similar law last year. I don't know anyone who's actually taking advantage of it yet but it's as easy as placing up to 3 solar panels facing the sun, connecting to micro inverters and plugging into an outlet.
I already have rooftop solar. But I was thinking about buying 3 used panels for next to nothing and adding them to my house
I think it's just taking a bit for companies to develop/verify they will be compliant with the law. Sales will pick up when people see how easy it is and quick to payoff the investment.
Back-feeding on a 60Hz plug isn't something that we have built standards around yet. Sellers are going to want to be able to get UL certifications, etc and we didn't (don't still?) have approved standards for doing it on the US grid.
We can legalize them, but no one will build if it's still against electrical standards to sell it.
You can buy it right now in Utah. https://www.ecoflow.com/us/stream-ultra-home-solar-system
Those are different than the balcony solar models that are available and widely used in Europe and elsewhere.
It costs significantly more, which limits adoption.
But, yes, it is coming and available in early forms in Utah because Utah law specifically said “these are the standards we will use for this since NEC is being too slow”.
Plugs themselves are rated for 15A-20A on both lugs and you don't use special breakers for solar panels systems just higher amps, I don't see much of a point to getting UL certs for just feeding in less than standard outlet amperage.
Uh, I don’t think you understand the point I’m making here.
You absolutely do need the inverter from the panels to detect the grid, and then synchronize before outputting on the plug, and it only outputting certain amounts. And electrical code standards are how you determine how to build equipment to do that.
The thing is that American electrical code doesn’t have provisions and rules yet for amperage on wiring and safety standards for wiring in walls on plugs being backed and how to declare safe before energizing and how quick you must de-energize. Like Germany requires under-rating current on the backed wire due to some nuances about how power and resistance can be expressed on in-between the circuit runs that it’s present when power is Uni-directional to plugs. Something that we don’t have specified yet in the US.
It’s not simply “pulling less from a plug”, it’s back feeding power into one plug somewhere in your house so that your fridge in another location can use it, for example.
Won't you need to make some changes in your home electricity setup too?
No, not for these. That's the benefit.
We are seeing the unraveling of the electric grid monopoly coming from distribubuted renewables giving people a choice by voting with their wallets.
I wonder if Africa will do like they did with mobile phones - skip the centralized infrastructure entirely.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Quiet-Unraveling-of-the-Power-Grid-Monopoly.html
We still need a grid. What’s going to happen is grids are going to charge sky high “connection” fees just to have service even if you don’t use any of it.
Which then incentivizes distributed generation even stronger.
I think the neighborhood grid will stay. But they may disconnect from the main grid. Backups/emergency reserves running on chemical energy are nasty things to deal with.
Run your neighborhood with local wind and solar resources solving everything but emergency reserves with storage.
Then have a diesel/gas turbine/fuel cell/"20X0 solution" running on carbon neutral fuel for the emergency reserve.
See this almost 10 year old pilot project in southern sweden for a village running in islanded mode with 100% renewable energy:
https://www.eon.com/en/innovation/innovation-frontline/success-stories/success-story-simris.html
i think we will def move this way but maybe never totally abandon the current model. at least not in my lifetime. look at fossil fuels or tobacco to see how long powerful interests can hang on despite far better market solutions. that said, the idea that there could be smaller towns in more remote locations that could just do this soup to nuts is incredible. battery tech and solar are a real revolution for the globe.
You have to look at it from the perspective of incentives. We tend to overestimate the change in a year and underestmate the the change over a decade.
Fossil fuels has been the cheapest near infinitely scalable energy source for the past centuries. That is why you haven't seen them dissappear. They are the price floor when the question of "I need energy" is raised.
Some locales have been lucky in having hydro or geothermal. But those are famously "geographically limited".
With renewables we now have a new cheapeast near infinitely scalable energy source.
Looking at H1 2025 renewables met 109% of grid capacity expansion globally. Given that grid assets has lifetimes counted in 20-40 years we can expect nearly all fossil infrastructure in the grid to dissappear in that time. That is the baseline scenario.
But since renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels there is currently an enormous ongoing global race. If you can apply renewables to a field currently limited by fossil fuel costs you have an advantage.
Meaning the transition will for the vast majority of usecases likely create a whole host of stranded fossil assets losing their market.
True but like government is bought and paid for. Clear example is not being able to buy a chinese ev in the states. That is held up as an auto industry concern but its a fossil fuel lobby concern. Private interests will hold on to the bitter end.
You think it’s that? You sure there’s not some other, much more plausible reason we’re not going to import a bunch of complex technology from a major adversary that loves spying on us and stealing our tech?
Calm down, dad.
Corruption isn’t when you don’t understand what’s going on
I've been decoupled from the grid due to power outages for a few days and just ran electrical from my EV. For the year I produce more electricity than I use.
And now we're seeing much cheaper rechargeable batteries coming in the next few years, so neighborhood grids will just make more sense.
We will still have big grids for industry and commercial applications, but the power generation market is going to shrink.
The answer is to never privatize electric grids in the first place.
That’s excellent news
These plug in devices are extremely popular in Germany and millions of them are already installed. They pay off itself in only a few years, while having a lifetime of 20 years or more.
What prevents these solar panels from back feeding into the system during a power outage and electrifying downed lines? Usually solar systems with batteries that are designed to handle power failures have automatic grid disconnects to prevent electrifying the grid in a dangerous manner.
In /r/RenewableEnergy there's a long discussion on "anti-islanding". These inverters are grid-following and are certified to disconnect when losing the synchronization with the grid.
https://reddit.com/r/RenewableEnergy/comments/1q7jv2z/california_introduces_bill_to_legalize_plugin/nygi0n7/
Also, these won't unfortunately supply power during a power failure then. Just cut your load when the grid is online.
Exactly. Although I would think with a battery added most will provide additional standard outlets like a UPS.
Ah good. So, as long as people are using the correct inverters this shouldn't be a problem.
Inverters switch off automatically when the grid is down.
Plug in solar plants are not for emergency power but to save money.
Some have an outlet on the unit itself that always provide power (well, when the sun is shining) so that you can plug a small item into that directly and for example charge a mobile phone or laptop even when the power is out.
But right, they do not backfeed electricity to your local grid when the power is out.
We're going to see more batteries working as buffers in the near future. Batteries are getting safer and cheaper now.
And they are also lasting far longer. The UPS's I used to use lasted a year or two before they had to be replaced. Now you can buy 10 year models.
I wish all states does this, and hopefully for Florida where I live. Would give me/people a piece of mind if a hurricane comes by and swap the panels to a battery bank so we can still have equipment on in the day and/or conserve it for the night.
I did some calculations and to have 1200 watt solar on my house would equate to ~1850 kWh per year.
Same, I’m over here in Arizona salivating at this idea because I can’t afford the $10,000+ solar install on our house but would get plug in solar in a heartbeat.
I can afford the solar install, but I just bought my house in August and the roof is 8 years old and Florida + homeowners insurance sucks.
Yay for more solar energy
BYE BYE DEPENDENCY!
This is a huge step for the citizens to get energy independence, and help to transform the world into renewable powered, rather than powered by the dirty coal, dirty O&G, and corrupt, dirty & Toxic nuclear industries!
Nuclear is clean and safe, people are just scared of it
And horrifyingly expensive. Western new built nuclear power comes in at ~18-24 cents/kWh excluding backup, transmission costs, waste disposal, taxes etc. based on EPR2, FV3, Vogtle, HPC, Polish AP1000 etc.
With the grid becoming distributed foisting the costs for new built nuclear subsidies on the ratepayers will become a no-go.
Wrong.
Ask the 117 sq miles of still-closed off land in Fukushima.
Not scared, just observant of an industry that is just a tax payer grift, that results in a huge perpetual debt.
Insane take. Grift isn’t when you don’t like something
That’s illegal?
Read the article
European here, let me help: That’s illegal in the USA?
What did I tell the other guy