Hi, I’m new here. I’m a foreigner who’s passionate about languages, especially Old English and other Germanic languages. I’ve been learning French and English at university, Dutch, German and OE on my own.
I’d like to know where I can share my practice sentences so they get corrected. My goal is not only to read the classical texts, but also to try to write in “correct” OE.
I know there are specific manuals for grammar, syntax, vocabulary, and whatnot, to delve into the language, but I want to practise my writing and get feedback to improve my declensions, syntax and to know whether I’ve picked the “right words” (instead of non-existing ones or “too fancy” ones).
Some pretty valuable resources are listed here, which is wonderful, however, I need feedback.
I’ve had AI’s help me with my writing (since I have no teachers nor professionals to be in touch with), and I think I’ve done well so far. Nonetheless, I’m aware AI’s are bound to make mistakes and that OE had a significant regional variety in terms of vocabulary, spelling, and declensions, so I need a guide, something like a “standard” to base my personal project on.
For example, what are your thoughts on these sentences? They’re the same, but I’ve tinkered with the word order.
Iċ wylle þone lȳðran dracan mid mīnum hāliġum swurde ofslēan, forþǣm hē ūre miċel rīċe fordyde and ūre þēode frǣt.
Þone lȳðran dracan wylle iċ mid mīnum hāliġum swurde ofslēan, forþǣm hē ūre miċel rīċe fordyde and ūre þēode frǣt.
Iċ wylle þone lȳðran dracan ofslēan mid mīnum hāliġum swurde, forþǣm hē ūre miċel rīċe fordyde and ūre þēode frǣt.
Iċ wylle ofslēan þone lȳðran dracan mid mīnum hāliġum swurde, forþǣm hē fordyde ūre miċel rīċe and frǣt ūre þēode.
Additional sentences:
- Iċ wylle Englisċ leornian forþǣm iċ hit lufiġe.
- Hē sæġþ þæt hē Englisċ leornian wylle (present subjunctive), forþǣm hē hit lufiġe (another subjunctive).
Do they need correction? Are they “alright”?
Have I got the declensions right?
Lastly, I’d like to mention that I’m aiming for “lexical and syntactical purity”, so no Early Middle English forms nor too many Old Norse loanwords, if possible.
I have no problem with early loanwords from Ecclesiastical Latin like “ċyrice, declinian” or “mynster”.
Thanks in advance.
Only real correction I have is that you're a bit inconsistent with weak adjectives. You got lȳðre > lȳðran right, but hāliġ and miċel are taking strong forms, even though they follow definite articles or possessive words.
Hāl(i)ġum could work for hāl(i)ġan if you're writing late OE though, since -an and -um occasionally started to be used interchangeably due to unstressed back vowels merging together, and probably some weakening of the nasals as well. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw that in an Ælfric manuscript, especially a later copy.
In sentence 2, I'd also be tempted to move iċ between dracan and the verb. There's nothing wrong with the word order you picked, but OVS independent clauses often turn into OSV when the subject is a pronoun (same with SVO turning into SOV with an object pronoun). Not mandatory, just an idiomatic thing, probably had to do with most pronouns having a low syllable weight.
Nothing wrong with these at all. Subjunctive is standard when the writer or speaker is conveying secondhand information (it's the one use of the subjunctive OE manuscripts are almost entirely consistent with, haha), so you used it perfectly.
Thank you so much for your feedback.
I see, so every time an adjective is preceded by a definite article and a possessive, it has to take its weak form. I’ll keep that in mind.
Ok. But, what about if I wanted to be “more conservative”? Do you suggest that I stick by the “standard rules” and avoid later forms?
Makes sense. That’s why I’ve come across common sentences like “I you love” (iċ þē lufiġe/lufie) instead of “I love you” (iċ lufiġe þē). As for the “OVS” order, I guess I’ll have to read more passages to see it in action, but considering pronouns are “lighter” (and how “SVO” changes into “SOV” in coordinate clauses), I’ll set “OVS” as the more natural order when an independent clause begins with an object that’s followed by a pronoun.
Yeah, it’s kind of confusing because Modern English rarely uses subjunctive anymore, but it’s more common in German (and pretty common in my mother tongue and in French).
Anyway, thank you for your answer. I’ll be reading the manuals and guides to improve, but there’s still a long way to go.
The only thing wrong with avoiding Norse loanwords is that even though OE existed since the fall of Rome roughly, most of what we have left today comes from the 9th-11th century, and most of the Norse borrowings in OE happened during that time with the Danelaw. Avoiding these for earlier forms may have you combining early words with other words which while English in origin, are in a later form, which isn’t necessarily correct but it would be a bit like mixing obsolete or archaic words from Early Modern English into Modern English.
I see. Thing is… I prefer native forms over loanwords to preserve the purity of the language.
I know that’ll make the language “artificial”, but TBF, we’re already doing that by basing our studying on a dialect in specific (Late West Saxon), whose most important author is Ælfric (and the one who even translated grammatical terms from Latin in OE).
AFAIK, LWS was more conservative than the other dialects (because Wessex didn’t fall to the Danish and Norwegian invaders until the 11th century). Plus, it’s the best documented dialect there is.
There were many spellings, syntactical variation and different words that were used in each dialect and time. We already know Northumbrian, East Anglian and (partly) Mercian were heavily influenced by Old Norse.
For example, “lagu” replaced “ǣ”, but if someone wrote a sentence using the former or the latter, then it’d be readable, hence understandable (if the declensions are correct according to a “standard” in mind).