Trigger Warnings:bullying, infidelity, possible hostile workplace, mental health issues, verbal abuse
Mood Spoilers:sad
Editor's Note: This is a repost of AAM. Often, the letter writer does not respond to comments in AAM posts, but for this original post here, they have read and responded. I am adding the relevant comments for more context that were not in the previous BoRUs
I’ve been trying to break into a niche industry (30-40 jobs in a city with a population of 3 million) for a while now. I’m in my late 20s, and though it took me some time to decide what I wanted to do with my life, I have finished my degree and completed two internships. I’m working part-time in a related field and freelancing while searching for a full-time job in the niche industry. I’m willing to move for the right job, but I’d rather stay close to home — so I was stoked last summer when I got an interview for one of the very few entry-level jobs available in my city! I ultimately didn’t get it, but the interview went well enough they encouraged me to apply the next time they had an opening.
Then an acquaintance who works at the company called me up and asked if I wanted to get coffee. I figured she’d offer me tips on how to do better next time. Instead, she told me to give up on ever being hired there — turns out, a girl I had gone to high school with is a real rock star at this company, and she threatened to resign when it looked like I was about to be offered a job. (I hadn’t realized it was her because her married name is different.) I’ll be honest — I wasn’t a very nice person back then, and I probably was pretty awful to this girl. I looked my former classmate up, and her resume really is incredible. She graduated from college early and has awards people who’ve worked in our industry twice as long haven’t won. Her public-facing work is top-notch. I’m guessing she’s the kind of employee a manager wants to keep around.
My acquaintance’s prediction appears to be true: I didn’t get an interview for a new position at the company that would’ve been an even better fit than the one I’d interviewed for. When I asked why, I was told a staffer had raised some concerns and the company would not be moving forward with my candidacy. I’m heartbroken. I worked so hard for so long to get the training required for this type of work, and I don’t think I deserve to be blacklisted for something I said when I was 17. I have my former classmate’s work email. Should I beg for forgiveness?
For Alison's response to the original post, please refer to this link here
Editor’s note: below are OOP’s comments that will help provide more context
Relevant Comments
Commenter 1: When OP said she “probably was pretty awful” to the person, it suggested she doesn’t fully remember what she did to her I read it to mean she remembers her as someone from school but not the extent of it. This seems to happen with some bullies, what seems like inconsequential childhood stuff to them lingers with their victims for years. I got a Facebook message from someone once who was excited to reconnect with me. He remembered me as a supportive friend and spoke fondly of the times we spent together- meanwhile I remember him as the bully I had nightmares about until my 20s.
I don’t think OP should apologise unless they can actually remember the details because “I was probably pretty mean to you” is going to sound like CYA even if they do wait a year or two to reapply. Personally there are few circumstances where I would work directly with one of my bullies and I have moved departments to get away from them in the past.
OOP: Here’s what happened: I’d known this girl since elementary school and had mutual friends in common in middle schools. We started hanging out a lot our sophomore year because my family moved in across the street. She started to call me her best friend, even though I didn’t consider her mine. She also liked a boy in our friend group that I started dating. That made it really awkward, so I decided I didn’t want to be friends with her anymore. It wasn’t my intention to cut her out of the friend group, but that’s what happened. My understanding is she ended up feeling very isolated and alone for the rest of high school. I realize now I could’ve handled it better.
The last I heard was she was working two states away, and remembering her from back then, she always said she wanted to get the hell out of our city. So it didn’t occur to me that the Lauren Johnson I saw on the staff page could be the Lauren Pumpernickel I knew in high school.
Commenter 2: Maybe I’m reading the letter wrong, but I didn’t get the impression the OP was applying for a job that was on par in title, responsibility, or pay as the former classmate. I thought it was definitely a more entry-level job but at the same company.
OOP: I finally finished my B.A at 26 and completed a three-month and six-month internship. I’ve been freelancing in an adjacent industry for about a year and a half. I know it took me longer than I should’ve to get where I’m at. The positions I’ve applied for have been entry-level. Neither would have required me to work directly with Rock Star, based on what I know of the organization.
Rock Star graduated from college in three years, worked for a few years in a different adjacent field for two years, then has been doing this for the last six. She is in the same job category as people who’ve been there much longer.
Commenter 3: Yeah. Social ostracization is really hard on people. It’s why solitary confinement is considered torture by the UN and why in biblical times it was the worst punishment you could mete out on an unrepentant sinner. Being frozen out by not just one person but your entire social group? Ouch. I really feel for Rock Star now.
OOP: I’m really, really trying to be self-reflective here. I’m sure I did make comments like, “Ugh, Rock Star. She’s SO annoying. Let’s not invite her.” I know my mom asked her mom (we were neighbors) if she was having a graduation party our senior year, and Rock Star’s mom said, “Rock Star doesn’t want one because she doesn’t think anyone will come.”
I cringe when I hear that now because, well, they probably wouldn’t have.
Commenter 4: Commenter: Whoa, I could only read the first hundred or so comments before I realized something seemed off– AAM is the one who used the term “bully, ” the OP did not; instead, the phrase used was “not very nice.” There were plenty of people who were “not very nice” to me in high school, but never bullied me. And reading the OP’s description of what actually happened above, I have to say.. that doesn’t sound like bullying, although I certainly agree it was unkind. But again.. I was a weirdo in high school and there were plenty of people who weren’t always nice to me, but that doesn’t make them bullies. Of course, there were probably people that I was mean to because I was 16 with raging hormones, but I wouldn’t think about THAT until someone mentioned it to me (in a situation like this, perhaps).
I am sure there are many people who are commenting who had terrible experiences with bullies.. but there is a lot of projection here. If I were the OP, I’d maybe ask some friends or other high school classmates (with Facebook, surely there are some!) and ask for an honest opinion on how horrible they were. I guess I feel like people are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on their own personal experiences.
OOP: I used “bully” in the subject of my email because that is apparently the term Rock Star used when she shot down my candidacy. According to the acquaintance, the language she used was along the lines of, “I would be very uncomfortable if you hired Kfox for the producer job. She was a bully in high school; I would move on if I had to see her every day.”
Commenter 5: What jumps out at me is OP saying the rockstar called OP her best friend, but rockstar wasn’t OP’s best friend. There was a very unpopular girl in my class who would glom onto people and try to push the relationship between them into a high degree of intimacy immediately. It caused a lot of problems for her. With some people, it led to real bullying. But even if you weren’t a bully — if you were someone who would otherwise have been civil and reasonably kind (because I don’t think anyone is a bully for NOT wanting to be best friends with someone — however, you do have to be civil), she would push and cling so much that it was overwhelming and extremely off putting and there didn’t seem to be a middle option of being friendly/civil at school — either you ignored her/avoided her completely or you were BEST FRIENDS ALL THE TIME and had to be with her for EVERYTHING to the exclusion of any other friends you might have had. Not an easy situation for an awkward teenager to deal with tactfully while still maintaining some boundaries.
So with that perspective — I could completely see this being a situation where OP wasn’t a bully, but just didn’t accept the level of friendship that the rockstar wanted, and the way she dealt with
I remember clearly the last time I communicated my desperation for help to each of my parents because it was important to me and I naively thought that would make it important to them just to have them completely treat me like shit and sink the proverbial lifeboat I was struggling to enter. I'm sure neither of them could have told you what that day was, my needs meant that little to them. But I sure remember.
Yeah same. I remember every dropped promise. Every time they didn't want to hear it. Every life choice I made that they shat on because it wasn't what they would have done. The time they were so very surprised to hear I was being bullied into feeling suicidal from my teacher, just for example.
Every. Single. Time.
Now I'm sure they occasionally wonder why I gave up talking to them at all - when they remember I exist, which is probably about twice a year.
She actually remembers exactly what we she did she just brushed over it so fast it.
They were part of the same friend group liked the same guy and then all of sudden not part of the same friend group. But she doesnt remember exactly how that happened. Its just did.
The ones who haven’t done any real sort of self reflection and then haven’t held themselves accountable for what they’ve done definitely don’t recall how cruel they were to others. To recall would mean they’d have to confront how they aren’t as good a person as they need to believe they are.
It's funny because she tries to make it sound like something long in the past when she jumps immediately into attacking her the second they're in the same room again. They just hadn't been in the same room since high school.
I was already shaking my head at OOP saying what she did wasn't that bad. Then she doesn't call her job to let them know she can't come in, and while I acknowledge she was having a very hard time, that shows disregard for others in that she's very woe is me about losing said job.
And then lashing out when she ran into the woman and saying she still has resentment for her... The fact that she didn't get a job at that company and is blacklisted by their entire network is her own fault entirely.
Right? Any tiny remaining shred of sympathy I might've had for OOP instantly evaporated when I saw that. She still refuses to take any responsibility for ANY part of her own downfall here. She's out here resenting her once-victim for becoming someone who can impose consequences for her own bad behavior instead of considering how else she might move forward.
Also there's a definite sense of entitlement - she got the degree, she's done the internships, so now she feels entitled to a job in her field, and feels entitled to complain and blame anything or anyone that stands in her way.
To your point about entitlement, when she couldn't get her part-time job back because
they’d found someone who was faster and more efficient than I’d been
just tells me she's not that great at the work even adjacent to the work she feels entitled to.
And the boyfriend cheating? She clearly still makes poor choices about who to surround herself with.
Also, her whole meltdown at the restaurant just completely reinforced that Rock Star was right to not want to work with her! Could you imagine running into your high school bully and having them scream in your face that you'd ruined their life? Bonkers.
Just a complete and utter lack of self awareness here.
The other thing that always catches my attention is that she got fired from the scholarship position for no showing. She didn't even call in sick. No consideration for anyone else around.
Yeah. That honestly made me laugh because holy shit this girl doesn't understand she's not special nor the center of the universe. I missed one day of school and work when I was 19 after I had to go get my mother from the hospital after a suicide attempt. I also have to make myself go to class and work when I put my dog to sleep (moved to another country and ran out of money to treat my dog that i brought with me for a sudden illness) then a year later my bf of 7 years dumped me. He was the reason I moved abroad.
I really wanted to just hole up in my room and despair, but I got bills and rent to pay, so I had to make myself go to work and not miss class at uni. I'd I couldn't work I'd call my manager and explain why, that I needed one or two days to pull myself together because I just couldn't afford not to work. This girl had not matured at all
She's got huge "peaked in high school" energy. No wonder she only finished college at 26 if she took that same attitude with her to college and was wondering why she didn't end up being the queen bee there too.
So, it IS entirely possible to be hit so hard by depression that you genuinely cannot make yourself do the necessary minimum to survive. Obviously that's an extreme case, not at all the norm, but a series of traumatic events would be a likely trigger for it to hit that badly. It happened to my brother after going through an ugly divorce, an even uglier custody battle, and then finding his new girlfriend had ended her life in his bedroom. He had to move back in with our parents for a few years before he could even start putting his life back together.
I say this not to excuse OOP, but to point out that the specific part about her being unable to take care of herself isn't necessarily a product of someone being emotionally immature (plus there's plenty of other proof for OOP's immaturity already!)
Oh I totally agree. I had a massive burnout during the second year of my PhD. I still shot my supervisor a text saying I wasn't doing well and needed some time off. I couldn't go through the whole process to start a sabbatical at that point, but just a proof of life and promise to check in later is usually enough to get some breathing room.
OP was fired after the third no show. She was probably contacted and warned, but still couldn't just send a quick email back?
Yeah... while I can think of a lot of factors that could make a situation like that more sympathetic (were people trying to reach out and she didn't respond? did she ever communicate her situation at all, at any point? how far apart did they happen? etc), I'm not terribly inclined to give OOP specifically that kind of benefit of the doubt.
I would also bet money that her account of what she did to Rock Star was either not the thing at all or severely lacking crucial details. I'm guessing it was way more than getting the friend group to drop her.
She’s not acknowledging how bad it was. Rock star will leave her awesome job where she’s very successful if OOP starts working there. That’s not being petty, it’s actual trauma.
(I have PTSD from bullying myself so I understand)
She did get a job in her field. And then she blew it because it wasn't the specific job at the specific company in the specific town that she wanted to work in.
Even then, she could have found work somewhere else but she decided to blow her own reputation even worse with her stunt in the restaurant.
It's hardly surprising, though. Bullies are driven by their own entitlement. And it had only been a measly three years since she had been actively bullying Rock Star. There was no reason to think she would change or mature in such a small amount of time since this was the first time she had actually faced any negative consequences for her actions.
What I found to be delicious irony was that she hated the new town she was in because she couldn't make any friends. Social isolation is no fun, right? Maybe now you know how Rock Star felt when you decided to have her booted from the friend group. 🤪
Also her "excuse" for not being able to find any friends is complete bullshit. Who cares if theyre not in your immediate age bracket. You can still find common ground. Its not like they speak a completely different language
Yeah... it can be hard on non-traditional, older students when they get that first job. They don't fit in, and it does sound like OOP is struggling to figure out how to adult anyway and it is going to be very hard.
I think there’s a heavy irony there. The OP is very awful, in so many ways. Perhaps the biggest takeaway that she continues to miss is that she would be a genuinely awful employee for anyone, for more reasons than I can succinctly summarise here.
Is anyone else curious about what the niche industry could be?
I’m not sure if I believe in karma, but this story makes a great case for it. I remember in middle school being bullied and how terrible I felt. I ran into one of them in university and they had no recollection of their cruelty and acted as if we were friends who lost touch. It was jarring to realize the pain they caused wasn’t even memorable to them.
I cleave to the current fan theory that it's television. She talks about a niche industry in a small town that scales with the size of the town she's in. She hated moving to the larger town and couldn't keep up with the job in that context, and then discovered she was easily replaced in her original position. Rock Star isn't just a big deal at her company, but something of a community voice.
My own job is in media production, which very much scales with its environment; at a smaller outlet, five people might do everything, but at a statewide gig, it might take over 200 to do the same jobs. It's a competitive industry that's almost entirely community-facing. OOP also used the word "network," not just in the sense of a career network, but in the sense of a national organization with local subsidiaries.
This is more thought than I usually put into these stories; usually it's just "Ha ha ha how jejune, what's for lunch," but this story is my kryptonite. I could very well be talking through my hat.
One of the highlighted comments said it was public radio and that Rockstar no longer worked there and had taken a different job. OP started an urban farm but they couldn’t find any information about it.
Chatter in the original posts' comments is that it's in the entertainment/media industry, and "Rockstar" isn't an understatement. She probably reached some level of national attention for her work. That's the kind of business where yes, it is possible to get blackballed for being awful to work with.
Pretty much every bully I had I'm school has done this. Fortunately as we've gotten older there's more plausible deniability so we can just ignore each other. What's wild is that these people's parents will still recognize me and tell me all about how their adult bully is as if I care.
Honestly, if this kind of thing was a regular consequence of bullying, we'd probably live in a better society.
I'm so curious what she actually DID to Rockstar. She ran away from home and changed schools to get away from her? That's pretty intense. I understand why OOP wouldn't write about her actual actions - it sounds like she would have gotten absolutely shredded in the comments.
I know people can be bullies without necessarily realizing it, and obviously bullying is going to stick in the mind of the victim more than the mind of the tormentor. But even at the very end, when her own friend pointed out how bad it was, she still focuses on her own resentment. There's no hint of "I really fucked up" even after she accosted Rockstar in a cafe.
The sad part is I believe OOP really doesn't know what she did. If OOP was actively targeting Rockstar then I would have expected her to notice when Rockstar ran away for a while. For OOP to have no idea then it seems like OOP was so toxic she didn't even register bullying severe enough to cause that.
Honestly, if this kind of thing was a regular consequence of bullying, we'd probably live in a better society.
Maybe. The problem is that few school age bullies would accept that their actions might cause them problems down the road, and the ones that did wouldn't care.
But even at the very end, when her own friend pointed out how bad it was, she still focuses on her own resentment. There's no hint of "I really fucked up" even after she accosted Rockstar in a cafe.
Of course not, bullies like her (and not all are), are all about self. They bully because putting others down makes them feel powerful. Other types will often understand, later in life, how bad of people they were, and even change, but that's no redemption story - the lives they (may) have ruined, and for sure damaged, are improved by their late in life change of heart.
What’s crazy is OOP wouldn’t have been blacklisted from that niche field if she didn’t go after rockstar. She just couldn’t work for the company rockstar is in but could’ve gotten a job (although difficult) somewhere else. It was by her own actions she’s black listed and is STILL blaming rockstar for her own actions
She had an internship in her coveted job that would have led to her getting hired except she blew it off for 3 days by not showing up and not calling in. But that wasn’t her fault either somehow.
I'm not in media, but I have worked at a place with very coveted internships and entry level jobs. The kids who burn out and can't do it, well, it is very very hard on them emotionally. We have had interns go back to school and change majors. Accepting that you are the problem, that the job you built up in your head isn't what you are good at is hard to accept. Having seen those kids I feel a little bad for OOP, OOP has taken so much time for whatever reasons to get the qualifications, and seems to have pinned her entire life on getting a specific thing. When she got a dream job she blamed everything around it for not being what she wanted it to be.
I remember that one. So obvious there was a lot of downplaying on OOPs part and missing missing reasons. Plus her own words providing evidence she was a crap employee when she did manage to get a job and her own words showing she was still a crap person outside of work.
It was just sad to see her stuff her life up so badly due to a lack of self reflection and self awareness.
I love when this one pops up. Everyone loves a story of the bully who peaked in high school having a miserable life, especially if their miserable life was because they were a bully.
But the best part of it is that each version of it I see has more detail - not because people are embellishing a folktale, but because the story is so attractive that everyone who engages with it does a deep-dive on the originating threads in search of more detail. So each reiteration becomes more incisive. Unless she weighs in again, we're as close to a comprehensive version as we're going to get.
See i actually am in the minority because i think bullies actually CAN grow up and mature, part of that is accepting responsibility for their actions and acknowledging how much they hurt others…OOP does NOT do that in this post…
I don't think that anyone that trickles out a story that starts with "I just didn't want to hang out with her" and ends with "I bullied her so badly that she ran away from home" can though. It's like they have a perception filter so strong they never even get to the part where they can reason and reflect over their own actions because reality is so warped they genuinely believe they're the one being treated unfairly.
Like she so desperately wanted to get into this industry - but not more so than that she no-called, no-showed three days in a row because woe is me. I don't condone cheating but it sounds like she voluntold her live-in boyfriend she'd move 7 hours away then called home to trauma dump on him every night - not a word on his feelings. And nobody else made her get blitzed and make a scene.
She's lighting bridges on fire like a fucking arsonist, running around with gasoline and matches but nothing is ever her fault even though she's both the immediate and root cause - no, my bullying victim ruined my life by refusing to work with me. People like that don't change, they go through their life as perpetual victims until they die bitter and lonely over how the world has wronged them.
Yeah they can and I've seen it happen. But one of the hardest parts is accepting that even if you've changed, you're still not owed forgiveness from the people you hurt. That's a thing that can only be given, not taken.
This OOP still doesn't understand any of the things required for real growing up and by the sound of it, never will. Self-reflection is too hard when you can just keep blaming stuff in everyone else instead I guess 🤷
When OOP tried to frame it as rock star being clingy and them innocently just being like "I don't want to be friends", I knew they were full of it.
People don't run away from home because someone is a little mean to them. I'm sure there was a lot of cruelty involved. The fact that even OOPs old friends are like "umm no you were not great" tells me they were horrible.
The fact OOP blames those around them for their own failures while also not getting an old job back because they found someone more productive. They really don't know how to do any self reflection.
Part of me feels for humans whose lives spiral but not all of them.
The part about not getting her job back stuck out to me. Maybe she didn't get the job because she just sucks as a candidate. I kinda feel like OOP fabricated a reason for getting denied in her mind because she doesn't have an ounce of self-awareness and it couldn't be they just didn't like her. Like why would the company tell her to reapply if Rock-star had already blackballed her? She needed someone else to blame.
I agree, I've known people like this in my life and they have zero self reflection but it's more than that. Many times they will hear or read something and have a completely different take on the meaning. It's truly bizarre to witness.
The fact OOP got drunk and attacked rock star to bad that they were blacklisted from the eatery is also telling they have not changed. They may not be the same type of bully, but I bet they are a bully at work. I wonder if it's that sad mid 20s type who says a lot of crass things, nobody laughs and they are like "guess none of you have a sense of humor" and everyone just ignores them and hopes they go away.
I wonder if that's how they were at their other jobs.
I'm speculating of course but it's kind of fun to play "what if" lol.
This is the most "oh no consequences" I've ever seen. She's completely allergic to taking responsibility for a single choice she makes. I'm also really curious what the niche industry is...
I still have resentment towards people who did me dirty in high school. Best friend slept with my girlfriend. He's probably 41 this year. Imo he deserves everything bad that ever happens to him even though we were dumbass kids at the times. That period of time is really emotional. Strong fee fees. A lot of people fantasize about being able to get revenge on their bullies. This lady got to live that fantasy out.
as a former bully, posts like these actually warm my heart because i remember every awful thing i did in excruciating detail and regret it all. i could never downplay or forget it and i fully accept any consequences for what i did. there are probably people who still hate me to this day and i deserve it. bullies who don't reflect and change can't hide who they are and they get what they deserve.
There are a lot of apologists in the comments. saying what the OOP did didn't sound that bad. Some of the worst ad most painful bullying is the subtle kind. I used to blame myself for being bullied, Thinking I was "too weird, too quiet, too weak and too shy" so i deserved to be ostracized, picked on, teased relentlessly, and abused.
It was not my fault. the fault was with the group of mean girls who decided it would be good sport to make my life a living hell throughout my school days. "Rock Star" did not cause her own bullying.
It’s hard not to feel like some of this is Rock Star’s fault, especially given how she rubbed salt in the wound after my whole world had come crashing down.
Just for context, OOP's definition of "rubbing salt in the wound" is her bullying victim living her own life, completely unaware of OOP's presence.
And not mentioning OOP by name, just bringing light to resources for support and mental health help for youth being bullied. Rockstar could’ve put her on blast but took the high road.
OOP can apologize; the other woman does have to accept it. And even if somehow she does accept it, she doesn’t have to go out of her way for OOP to get a job.
Ok, I might be ignorant but isn't the answer to this problem to move to a bigger area far away from rockstar? Or maybe look for jobs in a more isolated area that need to bring in specialty skilled people?
I understand she wants to stay in her hometown but she can see that's a dead-end so... The other option seems to be go for a different job field.
Neither of those options are easy but they seem to be the answers.
I realize she doesn't see those options because shes still got the bully mindset of "I can do whatever, and get what i want!" But those are the answers right?
OOP thinks Rock Star is rubbing salt in OOP’s wound.
Rock Star tweeted out the National Suicide Hotline.
OOP cannot connect the dots.
The people responding at AAM are much kinder than I could compel myself to be. I hope Rock Star is still amazing and that OOP has gotten the help she needs.
I’ve always believed she chose that restaurant because she saw while stalking Rock Star’s twitter that she’d be there. How else did she know it was their wedding anniversary?
There was a girl who HATED me in high school. She was a year ahead of me, and we rode the same bus for a year. She would regularly try to start fights with me, which I usually ignored (I am VERY good at ignoring people I don't like). Some people thought I should have fought back and that I was weak, but those who knew me well were impressed at how unfazed I was... and it was amusing to see how bad it. Pissed. Her. Off. that I ignored her so completely; I had only ever responded the first time she ever said anything. She even smacked me in the back of the head once "on accident" and I didn't even look up. She wasn't worth my energy.
About 15 years or so later, she came into the nightclub where I worked. She came up to my bar and ordered a drink, and SHE brought up what had happened then. She told me it was because she thought I was after a guy that her younger sister liked, and she was sticking up for her sister. I guess it was her way of apologizing? She and her friends didn't stay long, though, even though they had several other bartenders in the club to choose from.
That was the first and last time I ever spoke to her. She was beneath my contempt then, and she has no place in my head now.
So the bully still hasn't learned and blames her victim. This is actually a sunshine story, the bully's victim rises to stardom and bully's life is in shambles.
How tf is the mood spoiler sad? This is one of my fav posts and makes me happy to see sometimes bullies get what they deserve. The update post maker must've been just like OOP and expected validation and "what the person in the story did isn't that bad!" so they can feel better about theirself
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Originally posted to r/AskAManager
[Repost + Extra Info]: I didn’t get a job because I was a bully in high school
Previous BoRUs: 1: Posted by u/Father-Son-HolyToast, 2: Posted by u/ThatNeonSignLover
Trigger Warnings: bullying, infidelity, possible hostile workplace, mental health issues, verbal abuse
Mood Spoilers: sad
Editor's Note: This is a repost of AAM. Often, the letter writer does not respond to comments in AAM posts, but for this original post here, they have read and responded. I am adding the relevant comments for more context that were not in the previous BoRUs
Original Post: April 25, 2017
I’ve been trying to break into a niche industry (30-40 jobs in a city with a population of 3 million) for a while now. I’m in my late 20s, and though it took me some time to decide what I wanted to do with my life, I have finished my degree and completed two internships. I’m working part-time in a related field and freelancing while searching for a full-time job in the niche industry. I’m willing to move for the right job, but I’d rather stay close to home — so I was stoked last summer when I got an interview for one of the very few entry-level jobs available in my city! I ultimately didn’t get it, but the interview went well enough they encouraged me to apply the next time they had an opening.
Then an acquaintance who works at the company called me up and asked if I wanted to get coffee. I figured she’d offer me tips on how to do better next time. Instead, she told me to give up on ever being hired there — turns out, a girl I had gone to high school with is a real rock star at this company, and she threatened to resign when it looked like I was about to be offered a job. (I hadn’t realized it was her because her married name is different.) I’ll be honest — I wasn’t a very nice person back then, and I probably was pretty awful to this girl. I looked my former classmate up, and her resume really is incredible. She graduated from college early and has awards people who’ve worked in our industry twice as long haven’t won. Her public-facing work is top-notch. I’m guessing she’s the kind of employee a manager wants to keep around.
My acquaintance’s prediction appears to be true: I didn’t get an interview for a new position at the company that would’ve been an even better fit than the one I’d interviewed for. When I asked why, I was told a staffer had raised some concerns and the company would not be moving forward with my candidacy. I’m heartbroken. I worked so hard for so long to get the training required for this type of work, and I don’t think I deserve to be blacklisted for something I said when I was 17. I have my former classmate’s work email. Should I beg for forgiveness?
For Alison's response to the original post, please refer to this link here
Editor’s note: below are OOP’s comments that will help provide more context
Relevant Comments
Commenter 1: When OP said she “probably was pretty awful” to the person, it suggested she doesn’t fully remember what she did to her I read it to mean she remembers her as someone from school but not the extent of it. This seems to happen with some bullies, what seems like inconsequential childhood stuff to them lingers with their victims for years. I got a Facebook message from someone once who was excited to reconnect with me. He remembered me as a supportive friend and spoke fondly of the times we spent together- meanwhile I remember him as the bully I had nightmares about until my 20s.
I don’t think OP should apologise unless they can actually remember the details because “I was probably pretty mean to you” is going to sound like CYA even if they do wait a year or two to reapply. Personally there are few circumstances where I would work directly with one of my bullies and I have moved departments to get away from them in the past.
Commenter 2: Maybe I’m reading the letter wrong, but I didn’t get the impression the OP was applying for a job that was on par in title, responsibility, or pay as the former classmate. I thought it was definitely a more entry-level job but at the same company.
Commenter 3: Yeah. Social ostracization is really hard on people. It’s why solitary confinement is considered torture by the UN and why in biblical times it was the worst punishment you could mete out on an unrepentant sinner. Being frozen out by not just one person but your entire social group? Ouch. I really feel for Rock Star now.
Commenter 4: Commenter: Whoa, I could only read the first hundred or so comments before I realized something seemed off– AAM is the one who used the term “bully, ” the OP did not; instead, the phrase used was “not very nice.” There were plenty of people who were “not very nice” to me in high school, but never bullied me. And reading the OP’s description of what actually happened above, I have to say.. that doesn’t sound like bullying, although I certainly agree it was unkind. But again.. I was a weirdo in high school and there were plenty of people who weren’t always nice to me, but that doesn’t make them bullies. Of course, there were probably people that I was mean to because I was 16 with raging hormones, but I wouldn’t think about THAT until someone mentioned it to me (in a situation like this, perhaps).
I am sure there are many people who are commenting who had terrible experiences with bullies.. but there is a lot of projection here. If I were the OP, I’d maybe ask some friends or other high school classmates (with Facebook, surely there are some!) and ask for an honest opinion on how horrible they were. I guess I feel like people are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on their own personal experiences.
Commenter 5: What jumps out at me is OP saying the rockstar called OP her best friend, but rockstar wasn’t OP’s best friend. There was a very unpopular girl in my class who would glom onto people and try to push the relationship between them into a high degree of intimacy immediately. It caused a lot of problems for her. With some people, it led to real bullying. But even if you weren’t a bully — if you were someone who would otherwise have been civil and reasonably kind (because I don’t think anyone is a bully for NOT wanting to be best friends with someone — however, you do have to be civil), she would push and cling so much that it was overwhelming and extremely off putting and there didn’t seem to be a middle option of being friendly/civil at school — either you ignored her/avoided her completely or you were BEST FRIENDS ALL THE TIME and had to be with her for EVERYTHING to the exclusion of any other friends you might have had. Not an easy situation for an awkward teenager to deal with tactfully while still maintaining some boundaries.
So with that perspective — I could completely see this being a situation where OP wasn’t a bully, but just didn’t accept the level of friendship that the rockstar wanted, and the way she dealt with
The bullies never remember just how cruel they were to their victims.
The axe forgets what the tree remembers.
I remember clearly the last time I communicated my desperation for help to each of my parents because it was important to me and I naively thought that would make it important to them just to have them completely treat me like shit and sink the proverbial lifeboat I was struggling to enter. I'm sure neither of them could have told you what that day was, my needs meant that little to them. But I sure remember.
Yeah same. I remember every dropped promise. Every time they didn't want to hear it. Every life choice I made that they shat on because it wasn't what they would have done. The time they were so very surprised to hear I was being bullied into feeling suicidal from my teacher, just for example.
Every. Single. Time.
Now I'm sure they occasionally wonder why I gave up talking to them at all - when they remember I exist, which is probably about twice a year.
She actually remembers exactly what we she did she just brushed over it so fast it.
They were part of the same friend group liked the same guy and then all of sudden not part of the same friend group. But she doesnt remember exactly how that happened. Its just did.
The ones who haven’t done any real sort of self reflection and then haven’t held themselves accountable for what they’ve done definitely don’t recall how cruel they were to others. To recall would mean they’d have to confront how they aren’t as good a person as they need to believe they are.
It's funny because she tries to make it sound like something long in the past when she jumps immediately into attacking her the second they're in the same room again. They just hadn't been in the same room since high school.
Yeah, that was quite concerning.
I was already shaking my head at OOP saying what she did wasn't that bad. Then she doesn't call her job to let them know she can't come in, and while I acknowledge she was having a very hard time, that shows disregard for others in that she's very woe is me about losing said job.
And then lashing out when she ran into the woman and saying she still has resentment for her... The fact that she didn't get a job at that company and is blacklisted by their entire network is her own fault entirely.
As always, whenever this old favourite comes back, it boils down to
I really am trying to let my resentment of my old classmate go, but it’s hard
Sometimes, the real victim is the bully who persecuted someone so badly they had to flee the state to escape being tormented.
Right? Any tiny remaining shred of sympathy I might've had for OOP instantly evaporated when I saw that. She still refuses to take any responsibility for ANY part of her own downfall here. She's out here resenting her once-victim for becoming someone who can impose consequences for her own bad behavior instead of considering how else she might move forward.
Also there's a definite sense of entitlement - she got the degree, she's done the internships, so now she feels entitled to a job in her field, and feels entitled to complain and blame anything or anyone that stands in her way.
To your point about entitlement, when she couldn't get her part-time job back because
just tells me she's not that great at the work even adjacent to the work she feels entitled to.
And the boyfriend cheating? She clearly still makes poor choices about who to surround herself with.
Also, her whole meltdown at the restaurant just completely reinforced that Rock Star was right to not want to work with her! Could you imagine running into your high school bully and having them scream in your face that you'd ruined their life? Bonkers.
Just a complete and utter lack of self awareness here.
The other thing that always catches my attention is that she got fired from the scholarship position for no showing. She didn't even call in sick. No consideration for anyone else around.
Yeah. That honestly made me laugh because holy shit this girl doesn't understand she's not special nor the center of the universe. I missed one day of school and work when I was 19 after I had to go get my mother from the hospital after a suicide attempt. I also have to make myself go to class and work when I put my dog to sleep (moved to another country and ran out of money to treat my dog that i brought with me for a sudden illness) then a year later my bf of 7 years dumped me. He was the reason I moved abroad.
I really wanted to just hole up in my room and despair, but I got bills and rent to pay, so I had to make myself go to work and not miss class at uni. I'd I couldn't work I'd call my manager and explain why, that I needed one or two days to pull myself together because I just couldn't afford not to work. This girl had not matured at all
She's got huge "peaked in high school" energy. No wonder she only finished college at 26 if she took that same attitude with her to college and was wondering why she didn't end up being the queen bee there too.
So, it IS entirely possible to be hit so hard by depression that you genuinely cannot make yourself do the necessary minimum to survive. Obviously that's an extreme case, not at all the norm, but a series of traumatic events would be a likely trigger for it to hit that badly. It happened to my brother after going through an ugly divorce, an even uglier custody battle, and then finding his new girlfriend had ended her life in his bedroom. He had to move back in with our parents for a few years before he could even start putting his life back together.
I say this not to excuse OOP, but to point out that the specific part about her being unable to take care of herself isn't necessarily a product of someone being emotionally immature (plus there's plenty of other proof for OOP's immaturity already!)
Oh I totally agree. I had a massive burnout during the second year of my PhD. I still shot my supervisor a text saying I wasn't doing well and needed some time off. I couldn't go through the whole process to start a sabbatical at that point, but just a proof of life and promise to check in later is usually enough to get some breathing room. OP was fired after the third no show. She was probably contacted and warned, but still couldn't just send a quick email back?
Yeah... while I can think of a lot of factors that could make a situation like that more sympathetic (were people trying to reach out and she didn't respond? did she ever communicate her situation at all, at any point? how far apart did they happen? etc), I'm not terribly inclined to give OOP specifically that kind of benefit of the doubt.
The way I understood it, she didn't show up or showed sign of life for three days in a row
I've been cheated on and it sucked but I still got up and went to work the next day. OP seems to be lacking in any kind of emotional regulation
I would also bet money that her account of what she did to Rock Star was either not the thing at all or severely lacking crucial details. I'm guessing it was way more than getting the friend group to drop her.
It's giving "missing missing reasons" yeah.
She’s not acknowledging how bad it was. Rock star will leave her awesome job where she’s very successful if OOP starts working there. That’s not being petty, it’s actual trauma.
(I have PTSD from bullying myself so I understand)
She did get a job in her field. And then she blew it because it wasn't the specific job at the specific company in the specific town that she wanted to work in.
Even then, she could have found work somewhere else but she decided to blow her own reputation even worse with her stunt in the restaurant.
It's hardly surprising, though. Bullies are driven by their own entitlement. And it had only been a measly three years since she had been actively bullying Rock Star. There was no reason to think she would change or mature in such a small amount of time since this was the first time she had actually faced any negative consequences for her actions.
What I found to be delicious irony was that she hated the new town she was in because she couldn't make any friends. Social isolation is no fun, right? Maybe now you know how Rock Star felt when you decided to have her booted from the friend group. 🤪
Also her "excuse" for not being able to find any friends is complete bullshit. Who cares if theyre not in your immediate age bracket. You can still find common ground. Its not like they speak a completely different language
Yeah... it can be hard on non-traditional, older students when they get that first job. They don't fit in, and it does sound like OOP is struggling to figure out how to adult anyway and it is going to be very hard.
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I think there’s a heavy irony there. The OP is very awful, in so many ways. Perhaps the biggest takeaway that she continues to miss is that she would be a genuinely awful employee for anyone, for more reasons than I can succinctly summarise here.
The other irony, OP is exactly in the same ostracized situation that she put Rock Star in.
Rock Star got to live the fantasy of every bullied kid who ever existed - I am envious.
Seriously, I am in awe.
That was such a satisfying saga on AAM. 😹
Is anyone else curious about what the niche industry could be?
I’m not sure if I believe in karma, but this story makes a great case for it. I remember in middle school being bullied and how terrible I felt. I ran into one of them in university and they had no recollection of their cruelty and acted as if we were friends who lost touch. It was jarring to realize the pain they caused wasn’t even memorable to them.
I believe she replied somewhere about being a producer, so I'm guessing local news or something like that.
I cleave to the current fan theory that it's television. She talks about a niche industry in a small town that scales with the size of the town she's in. She hated moving to the larger town and couldn't keep up with the job in that context, and then discovered she was easily replaced in her original position. Rock Star isn't just a big deal at her company, but something of a community voice.
My own job is in media production, which very much scales with its environment; at a smaller outlet, five people might do everything, but at a statewide gig, it might take over 200 to do the same jobs. It's a competitive industry that's almost entirely community-facing. OOP also used the word "network," not just in the sense of a career network, but in the sense of a national organization with local subsidiaries.
This is more thought than I usually put into these stories; usually it's just "Ha ha ha how jejune, what's for lunch," but this story is my kryptonite. I could very well be talking through my hat.
IIRC, it was said in a reply it was radio.
I don't know if I am remembering that subconsciously, but it sounds like production.
One of the highlighted comments said it was public radio and that Rockstar no longer worked there and had taken a different job. OP started an urban farm but they couldn’t find any information about it.
Chatter in the original posts' comments is that it's in the entertainment/media industry, and "Rockstar" isn't an understatement. She probably reached some level of national attention for her work. That's the kind of business where yes, it is possible to get blackballed for being awful to work with.
Pretty much every bully I had I'm school has done this. Fortunately as we've gotten older there's more plausible deniability so we can just ignore each other. What's wild is that these people's parents will still recognize me and tell me all about how their adult bully is as if I care.
Honestly, if this kind of thing was a regular consequence of bullying, we'd probably live in a better society.
I'm so curious what she actually DID to Rockstar. She ran away from home and changed schools to get away from her? That's pretty intense. I understand why OOP wouldn't write about her actual actions - it sounds like she would have gotten absolutely shredded in the comments.
I know people can be bullies without necessarily realizing it, and obviously bullying is going to stick in the mind of the victim more than the mind of the tormentor. But even at the very end, when her own friend pointed out how bad it was, she still focuses on her own resentment. There's no hint of "I really fucked up" even after she accosted Rockstar in a cafe.
The sad part is I believe OOP really doesn't know what she did. If OOP was actively targeting Rockstar then I would have expected her to notice when Rockstar ran away for a while. For OOP to have no idea then it seems like OOP was so toxic she didn't even register bullying severe enough to cause that.
That's a really good point. "The axe forgets, but the tree remembers."
I wonder how many other people OOP mistreated. I would love the chance to ask OOP's old high school friend about that.
Maybe. The problem is that few school age bullies would accept that their actions might cause them problems down the road, and the ones that did wouldn't care.
Of course not, bullies like her (and not all are), are all about self. They bully because putting others down makes them feel powerful. Other types will often understand, later in life, how bad of people they were, and even change, but that's no redemption story - the lives they (may) have ruined, and for sure damaged, are improved by their late in life change of heart.
What’s crazy is OOP wouldn’t have been blacklisted from that niche field if she didn’t go after rockstar. She just couldn’t work for the company rockstar is in but could’ve gotten a job (although difficult) somewhere else. It was by her own actions she’s black listed and is STILL blaming rockstar for her own actions
She had an internship in her coveted job that would have led to her getting hired except she blew it off for 3 days by not showing up and not calling in. But that wasn’t her fault either somehow.
Exactly! OOP can’t take an accountability
I'm not in media, but I have worked at a place with very coveted internships and entry level jobs. The kids who burn out and can't do it, well, it is very very hard on them emotionally. We have had interns go back to school and change majors. Accepting that you are the problem, that the job you built up in your head isn't what you are good at is hard to accept. Having seen those kids I feel a little bad for OOP, OOP has taken so much time for whatever reasons to get the qualifications, and seems to have pinned her entire life on getting a specific thing. When she got a dream job she blamed everything around it for not being what she wanted it to be.
ohh boo hoo!! [insert clip of mr krabs playing the worlds smallest violin here]
reap what you sow! reap what you sow! reap what you sow!
REAP WHAT YOU FUCKING SOW
If this sub allowed gifs in comments, I'd reply with the gif of that.
I remember that one. So obvious there was a lot of downplaying on OOPs part and missing missing reasons. Plus her own words providing evidence she was a crap employee when she did manage to get a job and her own words showing she was still a crap person outside of work.
It was just sad to see her stuff her life up so badly due to a lack of self reflection and self awareness.
I love when this one pops up. Everyone loves a story of the bully who peaked in high school having a miserable life, especially if their miserable life was because they were a bully.
But the best part of it is that each version of it I see has more detail - not because people are embellishing a folktale, but because the story is so attractive that everyone who engages with it does a deep-dive on the originating threads in search of more detail. So each reiteration becomes more incisive. Unless she weighs in again, we're as close to a comprehensive version as we're going to get.
So who here wants to hear from Rock Star?
See i actually am in the minority because i think bullies actually CAN grow up and mature, part of that is accepting responsibility for their actions and acknowledging how much they hurt others…OOP does NOT do that in this post…
The thing is everyone can do that. It's something everyone has the ability to do.
But just because they can, doesn't mean they will. Many don't make the choice to do better.
I don't think that anyone that trickles out a story that starts with "I just didn't want to hang out with her" and ends with "I bullied her so badly that she ran away from home" can though. It's like they have a perception filter so strong they never even get to the part where they can reason and reflect over their own actions because reality is so warped they genuinely believe they're the one being treated unfairly.
Like she so desperately wanted to get into this industry - but not more so than that she no-called, no-showed three days in a row because woe is me. I don't condone cheating but it sounds like she voluntold her live-in boyfriend she'd move 7 hours away then called home to trauma dump on him every night - not a word on his feelings. And nobody else made her get blitzed and make a scene.
She's lighting bridges on fire like a fucking arsonist, running around with gasoline and matches but nothing is ever her fault even though she's both the immediate and root cause - no, my bullying victim ruined my life by refusing to work with me. People like that don't change, they go through their life as perpetual victims until they die bitter and lonely over how the world has wronged them.
They certainly can. But sometimes being a bully is indicative of a deep character flaw, rather than an aberration.
Yeah they can and I've seen it happen. But one of the hardest parts is accepting that even if you've changed, you're still not owed forgiveness from the people you hurt. That's a thing that can only be given, not taken.
This OOP still doesn't understand any of the things required for real growing up and by the sound of it, never will. Self-reflection is too hard when you can just keep blaming stuff in everyone else instead I guess 🤷
When OOP tried to frame it as rock star being clingy and them innocently just being like "I don't want to be friends", I knew they were full of it.
People don't run away from home because someone is a little mean to them. I'm sure there was a lot of cruelty involved. The fact that even OOPs old friends are like "umm no you were not great" tells me they were horrible.
The fact OOP blames those around them for their own failures while also not getting an old job back because they found someone more productive. They really don't know how to do any self reflection.
Part of me feels for humans whose lives spiral but not all of them.
The part about not getting her job back stuck out to me. Maybe she didn't get the job because she just sucks as a candidate. I kinda feel like OOP fabricated a reason for getting denied in her mind because she doesn't have an ounce of self-awareness and it couldn't be they just didn't like her. Like why would the company tell her to reapply if Rock-star had already blackballed her? She needed someone else to blame.
I agree, I've known people like this in my life and they have zero self reflection but it's more than that. Many times they will hear or read something and have a completely different take on the meaning. It's truly bizarre to witness.
The fact OOP got drunk and attacked rock star to bad that they were blacklisted from the eatery is also telling they have not changed. They may not be the same type of bully, but I bet they are a bully at work. I wonder if it's that sad mid 20s type who says a lot of crass things, nobody laughs and they are like "guess none of you have a sense of humor" and everyone just ignores them and hopes they go away.
I wonder if that's how they were at their other jobs.
I'm speculating of course but it's kind of fun to play "what if" lol.
Hahaha man that’s great to read
This is the most "oh no consequences" I've ever seen. She's completely allergic to taking responsibility for a single choice she makes. I'm also really curious what the niche industry is...
A highlighted comment said it was public radio.
OOF.
I still have resentment towards people who did me dirty in high school. Best friend slept with my girlfriend. He's probably 41 this year. Imo he deserves everything bad that ever happens to him even though we were dumbass kids at the times. That period of time is really emotional. Strong fee fees. A lot of people fantasize about being able to get revenge on their bullies. This lady got to live that fantasy out.
The biggest signal to me was when her sister asked to get to move out because she “needed her guest room back”.
She needed it for her baby. Her literal child. And OOP is acting like she’s being kicked to the curb for no reason 😂
We all know exactly what OOP was like at school and she’s clearly got no self-awareness or remorse about it.
You reap what you sow lol
as a former bully, posts like these actually warm my heart because i remember every awful thing i did in excruciating detail and regret it all. i could never downplay or forget it and i fully accept any consequences for what i did. there are probably people who still hate me to this day and i deserve it. bullies who don't reflect and change can't hide who they are and they get what they deserve.
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🤷
There are a lot of apologists in the comments. saying what the OOP did didn't sound that bad. Some of the worst ad most painful bullying is the subtle kind. I used to blame myself for being bullied, Thinking I was "too weird, too quiet, too weak and too shy" so i deserved to be ostracized, picked on, teased relentlessly, and abused.
It was not my fault. the fault was with the group of mean girls who decided it would be good sport to make my life a living hell throughout my school days. "Rock Star" did not cause her own bullying.
Just for context, OOP's definition of "rubbing salt in the wound" is her bullying victim living her own life, completely unaware of OOP's presence.
And not mentioning OOP by name, just bringing light to resources for support and mental health help for youth being bullied. Rockstar could’ve put her on blast but took the high road.
OOP can apologize; the other woman does have to accept it. And even if somehow she does accept it, she doesn’t have to go out of her way for OOP to get a job.
*doesn't have to
Obviously a typo in context.
Ok, I might be ignorant but isn't the answer to this problem to move to a bigger area far away from rockstar? Or maybe look for jobs in a more isolated area that need to bring in specialty skilled people?
I understand she wants to stay in her hometown but she can see that's a dead-end so... The other option seems to be go for a different job field.
Neither of those options are easy but they seem to be the answers.
I realize she doesn't see those options because shes still got the bully mindset of "I can do whatever, and get what i want!" But those are the answers right?
I wonder where the OP is right now…
Denial, still.
OOP thinks Rock Star is rubbing salt in OOP’s wound.
Rock Star tweeted out the National Suicide Hotline.
OOP cannot connect the dots.
The people responding at AAM are much kinder than I could compel myself to be. I hope Rock Star is still amazing and that OOP has gotten the help she needs.
This is a BORU classic! The justice plays out so sweetly that I do wonder if it's too good to be true.
I’ve always believed she chose that restaurant because she saw while stalking Rock Star’s twitter that she’d be there. How else did she know it was their wedding anniversary?
I didn't even think about that, but you might be right. It's very strange
Woman ruins her own life with her own actions, yet she can’t let go of her resentment towards her victim. Tale as old as time.
There was a girl who HATED me in high school. She was a year ahead of me, and we rode the same bus for a year. She would regularly try to start fights with me, which I usually ignored (I am VERY good at ignoring people I don't like). Some people thought I should have fought back and that I was weak, but those who knew me well were impressed at how unfazed I was... and it was amusing to see how bad it. Pissed. Her. Off. that I ignored her so completely; I had only ever responded the first time she ever said anything. She even smacked me in the back of the head once "on accident" and I didn't even look up. She wasn't worth my energy.
About 15 years or so later, she came into the nightclub where I worked. She came up to my bar and ordered a drink, and SHE brought up what had happened then. She told me it was because she thought I was after a guy that her younger sister liked, and she was sticking up for her sister. I guess it was her way of apologizing? She and her friends didn't stay long, though, even though they had several other bartenders in the club to choose from.
That was the first and last time I ever spoke to her. She was beneath my contempt then, and she has no place in my head now.
Sheen, this is the 7th week in a row you've shown "I didn't get a job because I was a bully in high school" to the class.
So the bully still hasn't learned and blames her victim. This is actually a sunshine story, the bully's victim rises to stardom and bully's life is in shambles.
Cheers!
How tf is the mood spoiler sad? This is one of my fav posts and makes me happy to see sometimes bullies get what they deserve. The update post maker must've been just like OOP and expected validation and "what the person in the story did isn't that bad!" so they can feel better about theirself
The update makes me doubt the story. It's just too over the top.
I have to agree with you. It seems way over the top.
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