I found this speech very educational and informative when it comes to how we should think about Flock cameras in Oakland. We have to keep ourselves educated and informed when it comes to new technological solutions.
Sounds like exactly what Oakland needs to augment Chp and our understaffed police department. Love that it could identify criminals as they’re moving around the city.
The criminals just need to learn to say cheese for the cameras ✌️
As a resident of Oakland, I feel safer having flock in our city. I have nothing to hide, I’m not a criminal. So what if a government camera logs data that I went to Safeway on Monday and back home? That information isn’t going to be used maliciously against me. I’m a law abiding citizen. I feel safer with flock in our town and city crime rates going down, I hope we keep flock.
People looking for complete 100% privacy from the government, well guess what, we all have smart phones that log our data and our movements already. We all use the internet that logs what we search and consume on our phones and computers. We have to sacrifice a bit of our privacy to be safer as a society and I’m completely fine with that.
Look at countries that DON’T use technology to help make their society safer, Mexico, Brazil, Afghanistan, Colombia, Iraq, Sudan, and many more. They definitely don’t have flock in hundreds of cities, is not having flock the solution to some of these countries safety issues? No, I’m pretty sure they don’t even have the technology to monitor phones in some of those countries. But having some more government intervention and monitoring does go a long way in keeping societies safer.
Having travel to most of those countries I’ve mentioned, I’m glad the most of peoples worries here is whether or not the government can see where my car drives. In other places, it’s a whole lot worse that’s forsure
Good ole fashion police work, a focus on violent crimes and property crimes only, and prosecuting violent and property crimes, removing criminals from the neighborhoods.
The police have all but abandoned the populace. There's like 30 floating around, playing on their phones at any given time. Meanwhile, West Oakland has become the dumping ground of stolen vehicles, garbage and unfettered homelessness. Many rvs are lined up on Mandela and more arrive every day. Flock has a purpose in helping rid us of those problems. We have a weak mayor system who is surrounded by imbecile council members looking for internet clout. Both Fife and Houston represent opposite spectrums but Houston wants positive change on my earlier points. Oakland is in its current state is a failure and the voting population is partly to blame. Town business is embarrassing.
Exactly. And this is the crux of the problem, a problem that Flock can't fix. Trying to introduce Flock is pointless without fixing the police problem, and fixing the police problem would pay way more dividends then Flock, with less privacy and 4A concerns.
Or another way of saying it: Flock isn't the solution; fixing the police problem is. You can't throw technology at systemic issues and expect the systemic problems to resolve themselves, but if you solve the systemic issues, you no longer need to deploy the technology solution.
My guy, there is quite literally an interview with a serial criminal in Oakland saying how easy it is to commit crime in Oakland because the OPD do not chase and they can’t monitor them. Thanks to the Oakland police commission for handicapping the OPD with that No chase policy. That said criminal also said they come from out of town specifically to Oakland to commit crime because of how easy it is and unpunished it goes due to the OPD and prosecuting DA’s policies. You can’t say it’s systemic issues when criminals are coming to Oakland specifically to commit crimes due to the cities policies.
This video on youtube was published a couple weeks ago that has millions of views by TommyG
Flock is at least a database that can utilized. Under/non performing police are the norm in Oakland. Most of the things you want done from your previous comment have to do with the district attorney. Safety outweighs the notion of privacy being diminished. Until I can walk my kids throughout the entirety of my neighborhood without the ongoing nonsense we have now I'll gladly invite flock. Are people under the impression their phones, cars, tvs, credit cards, etc aren't listening and tracking? To act like technology shouldn't be utilized to make our streets safer is a wild statement.
How about use technology and improve police effectiveness?
I am also dubious the city can “fix” the police problem - they have shown they are incapable of making any improvements for years. I am pretty sure they do not even know what fixing it means.
The video starts with a very misleading intro...even deceptive - especially since it was posted here within the context of trying to undo what Oakland City Council voted for - an extension of the Flock contract after a full public debate.
For instance, how would anyone know the video isn't just for East Colfax? I didn't see Denver mentioned, unless I missed it.
Again, it's NOT a lesson for Oakland because Denver's Mayor signed an extension with Flock without going to the citizens first. This is completely different than what Oakland did.
In fact, Oakland set a standard for other cities to deploy Flock - already, other cities are looking at Oakland's process as an example of how to successfully deploy street-level surveillance.
Roughly 20 cities have either refused to deploy Flock or cancelled a Flock contract out of five thousand cities that have deployed Flock, in addition to roughly 1000 other entities, like HOA's.
is there good evidence that sacrificing our privacy with these cameras will significantly reduce crime? I have a lot of doubt that flock will improve anything. Privacy matters and being recorded everywhere you go in town and put in a database is not the same as your phone data (warrant needed)
I took the complete transcript of the video and used Chat GPT to summarize the conversation, and organize the concerns. Hopefully this helps for those who do not have 10 minutes to watch the video on 2x speed.
Summary of the Meeting and Key Concerns
John McKinney, president of the East Colfax Neighborhood Association and a technology consultant, spoke at a community meeting opposing Denver’s deployment of Flock Safety surveillance cameras. He argued the issue goes beyond neighborhood improvements and raises serious Fourth Amendment and privacy concerns.
How Flock Technology Works
McKinney explained that Flock is more than a license-plate reader:
Solar-powered cameras capture images of every passing vehicle
Data is transmitted to a privately owned, off-site database
Sounds like exactly what Oakland needs to augment Chp and our understaffed police department. Love that it could identify criminals as they’re moving around the city.
The criminals just need to learn to say cheese for the cameras ✌️
As a resident of Oakland, I feel safer having flock in our city. I have nothing to hide, I’m not a criminal. So what if a government camera logs data that I went to Safeway on Monday and back home? That information isn’t going to be used maliciously against me. I’m a law abiding citizen. I feel safer with flock in our town and city crime rates going down, I hope we keep flock.
People looking for complete 100% privacy from the government, well guess what, we all have smart phones that log our data and our movements already. We all use the internet that logs what we search and consume on our phones and computers. We have to sacrifice a bit of our privacy to be safer as a society and I’m completely fine with that.
Look at countries that DON’T use technology to help make their society safer, Mexico, Brazil, Afghanistan, Colombia, Iraq, Sudan, and many more. They definitely don’t have flock in hundreds of cities, is not having flock the solution to some of these countries safety issues? No, I’m pretty sure they don’t even have the technology to monitor phones in some of those countries. But having some more government intervention and monitoring does go a long way in keeping societies safer.
Having travel to most of those countries I’ve mentioned, I’m glad the most of peoples worries here is whether or not the government can see where my car drives. In other places, it’s a whole lot worse that’s forsure
This sub has devolved to anti flock rhetoric. Zero ideas put forth to fix the issues of Oakland. Let's hear some wisdom.
Good ole fashion police work, a focus on violent crimes and property crimes only, and prosecuting violent and property crimes, removing criminals from the neighborhoods.
The police have all but abandoned the populace. There's like 30 floating around, playing on their phones at any given time. Meanwhile, West Oakland has become the dumping ground of stolen vehicles, garbage and unfettered homelessness. Many rvs are lined up on Mandela and more arrive every day. Flock has a purpose in helping rid us of those problems. We have a weak mayor system who is surrounded by imbecile council members looking for internet clout. Both Fife and Houston represent opposite spectrums but Houston wants positive change on my earlier points. Oakland is in its current state is a failure and the voting population is partly to blame. Town business is embarrassing.
Exactly. And this is the crux of the problem, a problem that Flock can't fix. Trying to introduce Flock is pointless without fixing the police problem, and fixing the police problem would pay way more dividends then Flock, with less privacy and 4A concerns.
Or another way of saying it: Flock isn't the solution; fixing the police problem is. You can't throw technology at systemic issues and expect the systemic problems to resolve themselves, but if you solve the systemic issues, you no longer need to deploy the technology solution.
My guy, there is quite literally an interview with a serial criminal in Oakland saying how easy it is to commit crime in Oakland because the OPD do not chase and they can’t monitor them. Thanks to the Oakland police commission for handicapping the OPD with that No chase policy. That said criminal also said they come from out of town specifically to Oakland to commit crime because of how easy it is and unpunished it goes due to the OPD and prosecuting DA’s policies. You can’t say it’s systemic issues when criminals are coming to Oakland specifically to commit crimes due to the cities policies.
This video on youtube was published a couple weeks ago that has millions of views by TommyG
Flock is at least a database that can utilized. Under/non performing police are the norm in Oakland. Most of the things you want done from your previous comment have to do with the district attorney. Safety outweighs the notion of privacy being diminished. Until I can walk my kids throughout the entirety of my neighborhood without the ongoing nonsense we have now I'll gladly invite flock. Are people under the impression their phones, cars, tvs, credit cards, etc aren't listening and tracking? To act like technology shouldn't be utilized to make our streets safer is a wild statement.
How about use technology and improve police effectiveness?
I am also dubious the city can “fix” the police problem - they have shown they are incapable of making any improvements for years. I am pretty sure they do not even know what fixing it means.
The video starts with a very misleading intro...even deceptive - especially since it was posted here within the context of trying to undo what Oakland City Council voted for - an extension of the Flock contract after a full public debate.
For instance, how would anyone know the video isn't just for East Colfax? I didn't see Denver mentioned, unless I missed it.
Again, it's NOT a lesson for Oakland because Denver's Mayor signed an extension with Flock without going to the citizens first. This is completely different than what Oakland did.
In fact, Oakland set a standard for other cities to deploy Flock - already, other cities are looking at Oakland's process as an example of how to successfully deploy street-level surveillance.
Roughly 20 cities have either refused to deploy Flock or cancelled a Flock contract out of five thousand cities that have deployed Flock, in addition to roughly 1000 other entities, like HOA's.
[deleted]
Wrong.
This is in regards to Denver's deployment of Flock cameras across the entire city of 730,000 people! So this is much bigger than East Colfax.
The only problem I have with Flock is that they’re not a public company - I do wish I could invest thousands of dollars in them.
They’re using technology for social good - liberating oppressed communities from the tyranny of crime.
is there good evidence that sacrificing our privacy with these cameras will significantly reduce crime? I have a lot of doubt that flock will improve anything. Privacy matters and being recorded everywhere you go in town and put in a database is not the same as your phone data (warrant needed)
I took the complete transcript of the video and used Chat GPT to summarize the conversation, and organize the concerns. Hopefully this helps for those who do not have 10 minutes to watch the video on 2x speed.
Summary of the Meeting and Key Concerns
John McKinney, president of the East Colfax Neighborhood Association and a technology consultant, spoke at a community meeting opposing Denver’s deployment of Flock Safety surveillance cameras. He argued the issue goes beyond neighborhood improvements and raises serious Fourth Amendment and privacy concerns.
How Flock Technology Works
McKinney explained that Flock is more than a license-plate reader:
Major Concerns Raised
Creation of Personal Profiles
Mass Data Collection and Security Risks
Expansion of Surveillance Infrastructure
Threats to Civil Liberties
Transparency and Trust
Thanks ChatGPT!