Following up on yesterday's discussion, we are adding a new rule to the subreddit, effective immediately.
If you missed yesterday's discussion, see here
The mods want to make it absolutely clear that this will not be tolerated in this subreddit.
Rule 15: NO SLUT SHAMING OR MODESTY POLICING
Shaming of our posters for being too modest or not modest enough won't be tolerated.
This prohibits:
- Inference about sexual or romantic activities, plans, or goals from outfits
- Suggesting that an outfit is associated with sex work or pornography
- Unsolicited advice on how modest an outfit is
- Pushing your religious, cultural, or personal values on others
- Stating an outfit is being worn for career advancement through nonprofessional activities
Depending on the severity of the offense, this will be enforced through removals/warnings and bans. The types of comments in the screenshots (see comments) in the linked post above will result in an immediate, permanent ban from the subreddit.
Note that this does not prohibit giving advice when asked for about the appropriateness or modesty of attire for a given occasion, nor does it affect in any way the ability to give advice unrelated to modesty.
For example, if someone makes a post asking if a short dress is appropriate for a formal wedding, you can absolutely tell them that formal attire for women generally implies floor length gowns. You can't tell them that wearing the dress they show implies they want to get laid or are easy. Saying a dress is inappropriate for a given dress code is not a modesty concern, it's about interpreting a dress code correctly.
Lastly, some modesty concerns are appropriate to discuss if a poster is a minor. This rule is about not shaming adults or policing their bodies.
Feel free to offer feedback here. We may choose to modify this based on the feedback received here. There could be things we have not thought of.
If you have questions or concerns about how this rule applies, feel free to ask here or modmail us!
Love this! I remember seeing a woman in shorts and a crop top asking of it was appropriate for the grocery store and there were lots of comments being like ' I would be put off if I saw you' and how it's the same as a man walking in topless?? It was the majority of comments and it was such a shame to see it from people, especially other women and people defending her or being kind got downvoted. This was in Summer time as well! It's not the only time either, tbh I almost left the sub because of the amount of slut shaming. Glad to see a policy being made :)
Yup, these are absolutely the kinds of comments we want to target.
We want our accepting users to stay and feel welcome. You are supported by the mods. Your view fits the view of the subreddit.
HELL YES. Very happy to see these new guidelines being implemented, it’s been so disheartening seeing the amount of mean and spiteful comments directed towards outfits with a certain amount of skin showing. Hopefully this will make posting here a little more positive experience for people.
This is our goal! We definitely strive to be the accepting, kind, and supportive subreddit for fashion. We don't always meet our goal but we keep trying.
I’m glad that this is being enforced because there was someone that posted her party outfit a few months ago and the comments were hella misogynistic all cause she was showing skin. Then when I tried to tell OP that her outfits were gorgeous and called out other commenter’s for being sexist, I got so many downvotes
We've seen this on a lot of posts recently, and we're fed up with it and taking action.
I don't know if you'll still get downvoted - we have little control over that (other than the fact that banned users' votes do not count) - but we can definitely get rid of misogynist comments.
All of my downvoted comments on Reddit are for the same reason.
It's ridiculous this has to be said. Some people have no shame or manners whatsoever.
You would think it would be common decency right?
Sadly, it's not.
I guarantee you if those rutabagas got the same treatment they'd be crying to mods in a heartbeat.
Oh they always act like they're oppressed. Constant complaints of censorship and how they have free speech. It's the classic - rules for thee, not for me!
Agree… but Mods need to verify and check the onlyfans posters with provocative photos to get clout too though..
We take a very aggressive approach to finding adult content creators here, and that won't change. I'm sure we still have some - there are times when it's impossible to know. There are definitely some posters I am suspicious of.
In the event that you do have evidence someone is an adult content creator that we have missed, please send it to modmail or use the report button.
What if someome asks if an outfit is appropriate for work party but it’s obviously too revealing? Can we say that?
Yes, but how you frame it matters.
These would be unacceptable:
These would be ok:
Re: ‘what kind of message does this send”? Isn’t that the reason it would be considered inappropriate? Because to me this reads as ‘you’re allowed to say something is inappropriate but not why it is inappropriate’
That message generally is used by slut-shamers to imply that the person wearing it is seeking sex. As such, we would not allow it.
Thank you! 💖
You're welcome!
Would my comment yesterday that followed yours and had links to published academic research and included excerpts from the abstracts now be banned? The post was about a school uniform skirt in Asia and the links were about the history of the an Asian nation's problems with school girl look for sex workers. One of the abstracts included how sex worker recruiters look at indicators for socio-economic status in the school girls, which were social class indicators quite similar to what Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell looked for.
Obviously I was pushing this to its extreme because of the opening of that too-snug skirt that had creeped its way up and out of dress code. I do think that this new rule goes way to far and ignores a great deal of the social history of clothing.
First, we certainly would not have banned you for it. At the absolute most, something like that might be a removal.
That said, I think I would have approved your comment. It wasn't about shaming the poster - it was about discussing issues in society and potential problems associated with fashion and its origins. The way you phrased everything was not blaming her. It was sympathetic to her but pointing out wider trends in an intelligent and sensitive way.
So no, you're fine. This is not what we are targeting. If you want a good idea of what we are targeting, read the screenshotted comments on the other post. That type of comments are why we are doing this.
I think discussions from a feminist perspective should be welcome.
Enforcement of the rule will be done intelligently and not be blind to intent.
Comments that express reality while clearly stating that it shouldn't be a certain way will be given much more leeway.
😊
Also if you have specific concerns feel free to mention them here - we may still alter the rule some, and I can do more to explain it as well.
I'll also add that if you ever were to get banned for something like that, modmail and ask for me. That is not the target here. And apparently we're getting downvoted already!
Was that about the girl in the gold(?) sparkle dress going to the work holiday party?
This isn't about a single user or post. We've observed this pattern in a number of posts recently. I had written about this a bit even before the post you mentioned when I was very disappointed with the judgmental attitude towards a young woman who posted her pics I a beautiful dress for homecoming.
I'm very happy about this new rule!
Obviously shaming is an old issue but it reminds me how on Reddit I've seen a lot of people conflating rude, unwanted comments with 'honesty'. Almost like it's a virtue of theirs that stupid people just can't handle.
Yeah, we see this all the time in modmail. People argue that you can't ban them because they are being honest. They act as if they are somehow noble or virtuous by voicing hurtful thoughts because they are "honest".
Exactly! I think it's born from a desperate attempt to control reality or at least distort in a way that makes them feel less insecure.
What exactly is the thinking behind the third to last paragraph? Why should random adults be giving modesty advice to children on the internet?
It's the job of every adult on the internet to help protect all the minors we encounter. That can come in the form of advice to help keep them safe and general wisdom that they simply haven't learned yet due to a younger age.
Additionally, we are a lot stricter with what we'll allow minors to post. Many outfits we'd allow for an adult we will not allow for a minor.
That second part makes a lot of sense. Of course this sub needs to be careful about what kind of images of minors it broadcasts.
The first part, though, seems like an invitation, in the worst case, for people to shame and/or sexualize children. And even in the best case, it’s an invitation to whoever interacts here to try to impress upon children their own takes on the sex and gender political debates of the day. Of course children need to be educated on how to engage critically and thoughtfully in those debates, but inviting random adults on the internet to tell them whether their outfits are sufficiently modest does not further that goal.
On minor posts, every comment goes to mods to check before it goes live to prevent that.
This seems very well thought out.
Thanks!
Much needed!!
<3
Fantastic choice
Thanks!
Great rule!
Thanks!
Yes, this!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!
It's so hard seeing all the negative comments on women's posts, bringing down their confidence or making them feel lile they're in the wrong, when all they want is help. This is one of the best things to happen on reddit for this type of group, hopefully others will follow asap!!
I'd like to think that we are at the forefront of maintaining a welcoming and accepting space among our peers. It's something that's really important to me. Reddit can be really lawless and just cruel sometimes but it's definitely not what I want for this subreddit. I want to be a place where people can come to get advice but also to be lifted up.
Thanks for the award! I hope you will hang around in the subreddit and contribute some positive and uplifting comments!
Absolutely!!! Will be so nice to be able to see and join in on the uplifting positive comments instead of time down voting all the bullies! ❤️
Embarrassing someone should never be allowed. I'm glad it's very clear here. Because for many people it is obvious that you should never shame anyone from any point of view. Unfortunately, it has to be made very clear to other people. Greetings
Agreed, I don't know why it even has to be said. It should just be the default way people act.
Appreciate these guidelines. There’s no need to tear people apart when they’re merely asking for advice.
I'm not sure why people do not understand how to give advice in a tactful way. Some sadly seem to enjoy being as cruel as possible.
This is amazing! Thank you mods for all the work you do to keep this sub safe and positive for users. I haven’t seen such negative comments myself, likely because you’re always quick to remove anything that’s borderline rude or breaks the sub’s rules. Still, it’s disheartening that a rule like this even has to exist. Sadly the internet is a place where people will say the most negative things while hiding behind anonymity, forgetting that their words are directed at real human beings.
Thanks Dusky! If we are doing our jobs you won't see any rude comments. I take it as a personal failing any time a poster has to see that kind of thing and it really upsets me. We just want a kind and welcoming community where everyone feels free to share their personal style.
You are always positive and kind and that's part of why we love you!
I love you guys too❤️ I see how much good work you do to keep this subreddit the way it is. Please keep up the good work! 💕
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You're welcome! <3
Wow. Those comments were so bad. And they didn't even think they were bad too... Anyways,
I feel like you don't need this rule because those comments break Rule 1, no? Maybe I don't understand the extent of rule 1, but to me those comments were just plain rude. Nothing constructive about them. Same with rules 3 and 4. If someone says something that breaks 3 or 4 then they've said something that breaks Rule 1. Again, I could be misunderstanding Rule 1.
They can be removed and assigned to other rules usually. Rule 1 can cover a lot in theory. However, we wanted to make this crystal clear and send a message.