Hi r/OUTFITS!
This has been on my mind a lot and I wanted to have a discussion about these issues. Comment guidance will be temporarily disabled so these ideas can be discussed without it getting in the way (yes, it blocks mods too, I know it can be annoying - for why we have it, read on). That doesn’t mean it’s ok to make sexist or slut-shaming comments. This problem is not unique to this sub, and I think we’re better than most subs, but we have a long way to go.
I’m very concerned about how judgmental many members of this subreddit can be towards women who, according to them, do not dress modestly enough. Note that this is not a criticism of women who dress modestly - this subreddit supports you in your fashion choices too. This is about moral judgments or behavioral inferences based on the fashion choices of other women. This derives ultimately from the belief that women and our sexuality is inherently wrong, and that while men should be proud of their sexuality, we should be ashamed of ours. This is regressive, misogynist thinking and has no place in this subreddit.
This isn’t about a single post, but rather an ongoing pattern I have observed modding this sub. A lot of the worst comments are never seen as we remove them first. It’s much easier to get rid of the creepy sexual comments from men. They tend to use words easily picked up by filters, they usually don’t have much history in the sub, and many have a lot of NSFW account history. This is not the case for many of the women who make judgmental comments here. They are often mixed in with genuine fashion advice or compliments, and the phrasing is often complex and not easily filtered.
This is also not about minors - that is a separate discussion. We are far stricter with minors in this sub for good reason. This is about adult women.
This is also not about giving advice on what is appropriate for an occasion in a respectful way. If someone suggests wearing a low cut clubbing dress to a conservative church funeral, of course you should tell them it’s not appropriate - advice posts should have good advice! That doesn’t mean you should leave a comment saying that someone is trying to find a husband though. People sometimes don’t know what is appropriate for an occasion, and this can be communicated politely without slut shaming.
Whenever we see a post where a woman chooses to dress in a way that shows her body at all (keep in mind, these are always SFW posts as we don’t allow anything else), we see a number of slut shaming comments from our users that imply that she is involved in sex work (almost always false, as this sub doesn’t allow adult content creators), that she is doing it to get a raise or promotion from a male boss, or that she is seeking some kind of sexual encounter.
This is incredibly misogynist. It implies that women can only dress to satisfy the male gaze, and that we can’t simply want to look beautiful and be proud of how we look. The number of terms we block now that people try to use to equate anything but modest dress with sex work is appalling. Whatever your views on sex work, these comments are meant to degrade women by comparing them to sex workers, and there is no way they can be thought of as feminist.
The idea that women dress a certain way to get raises and promotions is regressive and antifeminist. This devalues women’s abilities and accomplishments, reducing them to nothing but sexual objects. It implies that women cannot get ahead based on their skills, and instead must rely on seeking the favor of men because our only value is in our bodies. I hope you don’t believe that to be the case.
If you believe you can infer a woman’s sexual or romantic goals or motivations based on what she is wearing, you’re the person who asks a rape victim what she was wearing. An outfit doesn’t equal consent to be hit on or sexualized. It doesn’t justify any kind of moral judgment, ever. It’s an outfit.
We need to stop with the constant accusations of “seeking attention” or “looking for validation”. People are here, supposedly, because they love fashion. They come here to share their own personal style. If you think that’s somehow wrong and attention-seeking, kindly get lost. That’s what the sub is about.
I’d genuinely like to open this up to some discussion and potential solutions. We’ve been restricting comments more and more because of these types of comments, and yes, I know it can be very annoying because I get the same message. The alternative is to simply ban everyone who makes these comments, and we often remove otherwise good comments due to a single sentence that reveals serious misogyny.
I am writing this in the hope of making some of you think about the misogynist ideas you may have internalized. This post is targeted mostly at women - not because men aren’t deeply sexist, but because I want the women of this sub to really reflect on this and why they hold these beliefs. Ask yourself questions about your own life. Maybe one time you wore a short dress or a low cut top got a rude comment. I think we’ve all received comments like that in our lives and found them hurtful. Let’s not continue this.
Let’s break the cycle. Let’s show every woman that she has innate value that is not reduced in any way by her choice of clothing. Let’s put the toxicity of the patriarchy behind us. It’s time for us, as women, to stop keeping other women down and lift each other up. We can be better.
I feel like unless the OP has specifically asked, there’s no need to comment at all on whether you think an outfit is “appropriate” or modest enough. Just mind your business and stick to the subject at hand!
I think we're going to be stricter about keeping comments on target. If OP wants to know if something is appropriate, and she asks, then sure - it's fair game (but that doesn't mean you get to use offensive stereotypes and sexist slurs in offering that advice).
Even when they do ask, I kind of feel that people can be a bit too misogynist. There was a recent post asking that question about a work holiday party dress, and I thought at least a few of the comments were borderline rude.
Look at some of the screenshots I've posted in this thread. Some of those were from that post.
On this sub I’ve been careful to only ever comment on revealing outfits saying things like “you might try shorts underneath so you can sit down and not worry about anything” for a short dress for example (in additions to compliments on the fit ofc). Because slut shaming is bullllllshit.
https://preview.redd.it/mg73jzz39i1g1.png?width=2428&format=png&auto=webp&s=abacb15ac84bb6630c88e43de5db9092f0c65cd9
This is the kind of comment we see often - this is from just today. You can see the comment in the lower right under recent comments. The user was permanently banned, but sees nothing wrong with the comment.
It blows my mind that this person thought they had a chance at winning an appeal! Super out of touch.
https://preview.redd.it/05bz045q9i1g1.png?width=628&format=png&auto=webp&s=d50dce8808a53cb41356a3e9ab457ecbd890079e
Yes I totally agree!! The comments get so venomous sometimes
Thank you! It has really become a problem and the mods are sick of it. We will be taking action. This is not acceptable in 2025.
I am slightly suspicious this may be a trap to lure out the problem people, but I don't tend to comment. I will, however, report people who seem to purposefully be pushing butt/boob to the front and center. ESPECIALLY if they have pay links, or private instagram/social media, or a link tree that may conveniently hide their "special forum" in their profile. Its frustrating to find fashion subs that I can open in public already, with most of the Emo and Alt based ones being entirely taken over and the mods there basically being non-existent.
If I wanted a more sexual focused sub, I'd go to those. I realise you're probably pointing towards more "rave" outfits or corsets where this issue comes up where the issues mentioned occur. I do, however, also report men's posts that seem to basically just be thirst traps. I make sure my guidelines are equal for everyone, or at least try to.
I think a "risqué/nsfw/suggestive" flair might be appropriate, but I don't tend to post much on any subreddit so I'm not sure how well that would work for this sub. I don't tend to pay attention to flairs at all. However, an amazing art sub that I used to enjoy didn't crack down on nsfw art being marked as such, and therefore every single post is now marked. I don't want to see the nsfw stuff, but I have to click every post to find out if it actually is or not now. If this sub is at risk of that or not, staff would know better than I. But I don't want it to go that way either.
I invite you to check out r/gothgirls and r/gothstyle, which I mod with another mod from outfits, as we are quite strict on adult content creators and ban there for nsfw accounts as we do here.
Everything in this sub must be an outfit you can wear out. If it's not, we wouldn't allow it. We do not allow the use of NSFW tags, because if it needs to be tagged, it shouldn't be in this sub.
We don't allow NSFW content creators either, and I don't know of any sub where mods look harder to make sure they are removed.
Admins are absolutely marking more and more subs NSFW because they allow adult content creators. I do not think we are at any risk based on my discussions with admins and the fact that we have the strictest policy I know of on reddit towards adult content creators.
I think it’s weird that you would define the “sexuality” of an outfit based on your own standards of modesty. This is the same thought process for rapists who say things like “well look what she was wearing.”
100%! The subjective idea of who is pushing their boobs/butts “to the front” also just means someone with my body type would never look that sexual because mine are tiny but a woman with a larger chest might trigger someone just existing in a tshirt.
Right? I mean, if a woman has big boobs she should obviously leave those at home when posting here! /s
Women with certain body types are absolutely affected more by this kind of judgmental behavior.
100! I got a double mastectomy years ago (I am a trans man) but prior to that I had a big chest and I could be wearing the same outfit as someone with a smaller chest and be called “slutty.”
Once an older woman complained about my WORK uniform (which was a button up Dennys shirt) being inappropriate. I was mortified and 16 years old and I maintain it was sexual harassment.
Yup this happens a lot. We really try to not allow that here. No one's body is inherently more sexual than the bodies of others.
I would define it as the photos where breasts or butt are purposefully put closer in perspective to the camera or the center of the frame. I know its harder to avoid with selfies sometimes, but there are times where its at least somewhat obvious they're meant to be the center of attention.
We don't have any rules about provocative outfits, but we do have a rule about provocative poses. However, not every photo that shows boobs/butt is a provocative pose.
Here's another one:
https://preview.redd.it/u1oprezf9i1g1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=95d2d5fe321767e9290c03f0e949f05030f2251f
Really like your point: “If you believe you can infer a woman’s sexual or romantic goals or motivations based on what she is wearing, you’re the person who asks a rape victim what she was wearing.”
Absolutely in support of everything posted here. We can all be different. We can have different ideas about modesty or sexuality, differing opinions on what we’d cover up if we were the ones wearing the outfit, etc etc. But ultimately, we can all have different styles that are influenced by different factors and still share the love of fashion, the camaraderie and sisterhood of boosting eachother up.
I was not a modestly dressed woman in my early twenties, nobody could tell me anything. There are plenty of factors that inspire someone to express themselves through fashion. All that being said, I was very over-sexualized as a child and endured horrible things in my own home at the hands of people who were meant to care for me and keep me safe. I went through things I would never wish on someone else, and the ripple effect was a hypersexual, underdressed young lady trying to find herself. The LAST thing I needed was someone slut-shaming me or virtue signaling me. I have endured enough, to receive negative feedback on something that felt like genuine self expression would often anger me or put me back in my shell.
All that to say, we have no idea the histories of anyone on this sub. Be fuckin kind for christ’s sake. It costs nothing. If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
We see so many men who make gross comments, and then after they get banned, they use the excuse in modmail of "look what she's wearing!" This is not ok. No matter what she is wearing, it's never an excuse for sexual harassment. I think most of us have gotten those judgmental comments at some time - it's just part of existing as a woman. It's not ok though.
And I agree - just be kind. It's not that hard.
Thank you so much for posting this. This is beautifully written and strongly expressed. I have noticed the same thing on this sub and just felt disappointed that we’re still dealing with these attitudes, and it’s sad to see women policing each other’s bodies.
We can and will change this in this sub. It will take time, but we can do it.
https://preview.redd.it/q5rk4y7vdi1g1.png?width=1258&format=png&auto=webp&s=209d9e7c2fae8ebe5b24b8b8cdf8112f02793731
I only frequent this sub occasionally and rarely look at the comments, but I can 100% see how that could be a common problem :/
I think there is sometimes a tricky grey area with some posts though; I recall a post a few weeks ago where a young OP showed some of her outfits, and specifically asked for advice on how to dress for school and similar activities, in order to be perceived and treated a certain way by other people. While the outfits were cool and fun, there were some aspects that... clearly stood out as being potentially off-putting to some people.
I remember that a lot of comments were definitely unnecessarily harsh when pointing them out, which sucks, but surprisingly enough, the advice was mostly pretty solid tbh. I'm not saying that's okay, at ALL; I think people should have been much more tactful and gentle, even when OP didn't seem particularly receptive to the advice she got.
But in situations like those – where an OP specifically asks for feedback on how their style or outfits might be perceived by other people – would it still be okay to gently point out how certain aspects might make an unfavourable first impression, and offer actual constructive criticism on how to improve the outfit in order to achieve whatever effect they're aiming for?
In general, we absolutely look at what OP is requesting! This whole thing is not about saying that something is inappropriate. It's about the nature of the comments and the ways in which it is said. If someone asks a question that's a very different matter. Even then, however, the nature of the comment and how it is phrased matters. Saying "that dress is inappropriate for a funeral" is fine. Saying "good dress if you're trying to get pregnant" is not.
Ohh okay I see, thank you for explaining it with an example! (Autism girlie here, so I really appreciate the added clarity)
You don't see a lot of the really offensive ways people phrase these things because we remove them. But they are often very crass and strongly infer a sexual motive from any outfit that doesn't look like fundamentalist religious attire.
Thank you for working so hard to keep the sub wholesome and welcoming! :)
It's really sad to hear that some women are so judgemental and crass towards others whose modesty standards differ from their own, though :/
You're welcome! This has long been a passion of mine.
Look at the screenshots I added for examples too - it will give you an idea of what mods remove.
I just looked, and I'm so grossed out🤮 That's the kind of stuff that, even if it does cross your mind, you don't say it out loud (nor in writing to another person)...
These people might consider themselves virtuous, but there is really nothing positive about being a bully.
I think some people don't realize that this kind of stuff is pervasive in fashion subreddits - but if the mods are doing their jobs, you don't see it.
But it still reflects a major problem in how we view women in our society.
We won't have that in this sub.
Thank you for keeping the creeps out – both the male and female ones – for the rest of us🥲
I think it's great that you guys decided to address it though; ignoring stuff like that, never helps👍
part of the issue too tho is not all fashion subs are modded this way. on reddit there are a bunch that are loosely modded and have questionable posters, borderline baiters etc and what ends up happening is that reddit recommends all these posts to the same ppl and not to make an excuse for their actions but some won’t even see what sub this is but see the post and comment. they’ll get used to seeing a bunch of OF bait posts and comment harshly and then just see someone in this sub post wear clothing that maybe isn’t in line with with their perception of modesty and then comment harshly as well
It's definitely true that if you go and look at the subs reddit considers to be fashion, there is a huge range in moderation styles. I believe we are the most actively modded (along with some other subs that I also mod like r/dressforyourbody). That's part of our moderation philosophy. Not everyone agrees with that, and many mods simply don't do much or have much interest in modding. You can't keep this kind of subreddit clean checking in once a day for a few minutes - and there are absolutely fashion subs where the mods don't check in nearly that much.
The way reddit generates user feeds is a huge problem. It's not even just the other fashion subs - it's even more that they literally show our posters in a mixed feed with porn posts. We have no influence at all on how we are promoted in the reddit feed. We can't choose any characteristics of people to see us more or less. Recommendations are made, as far as I can tell, based only on what a user wants to see, not what is good for the subreddit.
A lot of officially SFW subs really are now just OF bait. It's really unfortunate. Other than the subs I mod, I only know a few fashion subs that really do a good job keeping out OF spammers. It's also a lot of work to do it.
Reddit has been cracking down on SFW OF subs though. So many of them have been reclassified by reddit as NSFW. It happens all the time now, and there are a lot of posts on modsupport about it - some mod comes to modsupport and wants to know why their sub was marked NSFW by admins and they can't change it, and you look at the sub and it's all onlyfans with lots of gross comments and bait titles. Reddit seems to be aware of this issue and has been addressing it. I've seen at least 2 disappear from the fashion topic in the last week or so because they were marked NSFW.
If you run a fashion sub, selfie sub, or similar, and you want to stay SFW, you have to ban adult content creators. If you don't, you won't be marked SFW for long. We did it before that was the case, because we want people who are genuinely interested in fashion, not here to sell content. I agree with Reddit's approach in this though. We should have spaces that are free of porn spam.
that’s bc reddit allows essentially corn on the same platform as regular content which is problematic. It attracts the wrong crowd and causes problems. the same stuff happens on IG. there’s more and more OF and sexual content being allowed and it normalizes it for users. they then comment crude shit on posts and then get recommended “regular” users posts in their feed too and then now they end up harassing others. sometimes the algorithm works and sometimes it just causes problems. lol like for ex I just want to keep this acc kpop focused but now since I’ve posted here I keep seeing fashion and selfie subs in my feed now 😭
Thank you for writing this. I have noticed several harsh and degrading comments from some on this sub, and it makes me sad.
As someone who disregarded fashion in her youth, I am just now learning about general best practices, and like many OPs I’m looking for kind, non-judgemental, and helpful advice.
I am in complete support of implementing measures to keep this sub loving, helpful, and inclusive.
Please always report these and we'll look at them!
I do sometimes struggle over whether to remove a comment because different posters respond differently to them, but we're definitely going to get stricter about the slut shaming.
I think a lot of the modesty policing people do in outfit threads comes from internalized misogyny. Unless someone specifically asks ‘Is this appropriate for X?’ or ‘Is this too revealing for Y?’ there’s no reason to comment on whether their clothes are modest enough. Everyone has their own comfort level and style.
When I scroll the sub I interact with outfits I love and if something isn’t my style or feels too revealing for me I just keep scrolling. It’s really easy to let people wear what they want without projecting our personal standards onto them.
Sure some people might be NSFW etc but for the most part, I feel like the group does good at keeping that sort of posting out. Just because somebody’s wearing revealing clothing doesn’t mean they are content creator.
Exactly. You don't need to comment or vote on every post. If you really don't like something, just keep scrolling.
>We need to stop with the constant accusations of “seeking attention” or “looking for validation”.
I know this wasn't the primary focus of your post, but this is the thing that really upsets me.
Even if someone is looking for validation or seeking attention, why should that bother anyone? GIVE Them some positive attention and validation, it's going to brighten their day and hopefully make the world just a little bit brighter.
Sometimes maybe someone is down and not in a good place. Is it so awful to look for reassurance or a kind word? Does it hurt you so much to give that? I completely agree with you. I don't want to see those comments at all. We're pretty good at filtering them.
I suppose some people want others to be as miserable as they are.
https://preview.redd.it/3v95r1rydi1g1.png?width=1166&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ed05838bc2d5fb00eab335137a498a314099d19
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As a man who frequents this sub sometimes I am constantly surprised with how mean some of the comments women give to others in here. There is a lot of modesty policing, maybe because I live in Montreal but I find the avg commenter is extremely conservative from my perspective. Very few people in my circles are not as conservative in their outfits as the comments in here.
Also from Montreal (and a woman) and I too have be shocked by the claims of completely normal outfits that I wear/would wear to work being called inappropriate.
why do you say women are the ones leaving the comments? i don’t investigate every user so i honestly assumed a lot of the misogynistic comments came from men who don’t care about fashion but use this sub to target women
Men are worse offenders, but the types of comments we get from them are different. They tend to be overtly sexual. They get filtered out more easily by automod or banned by the bot that checks if your account is a porn account. Women's comments tend to be more subtle with a less obvious kind of misogyny. It's definitely not that women are a bigger problem in this sub than men. They are, however, a harder problem to solve, because those comments are linguistically more complex and harder to filter, and women make up much more of the sub.
Wow, interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights!
https://preview.redd.it/2a9zqgj6ai1g1.png?width=1748&format=png&auto=webp&s=69e928ef3402e3bed8b5fb098e8706394454706f
Same as the last one.
https://preview.redd.it/zpjdtm5ddi1g1.png?width=1214&format=png&auto=webp&s=55993109d109253940fd728d97750319958247c9
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I would expect it from men but it's really sad that it also comes from other women. I'm sorry you get downvoted. I have too! We need to support each other. There are far too many male-centered women.
Half the time the outfit isn't even revealing, the woman wearing it is just a baddie. So it's also body shaming
Thanks for this Emily. I personally tend to dress more modestly just because I tend to like wearing dresses skirts etc. and my comfort level. Do I see outfits posted that I would feel uncomfortable in? Yes! But that doesn’t mean that person should not wear that outfit if they are comfortable and confident. If someone specifically asks if an outfit is appropriate then I will comment but I don’t go out of my way to be rude and mean.
Too many people get their jollies off bringing down other people and it’s really sad. Not every outfit will be for everyone (I’m sure many people think mine are cringe lol) but what really grinds my gears is when people comment just to be jerks. Of course this is the internet and that will happen but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to. I really enjoy this group and that is in part to the low tolerance of negativity and creeps. Thank you and all the mods!
I love how you dress too, and it reflects your own personality and values. I always know though that you are never the person to pass judgment or shame anyone else for their choices. Modesty is a completely valid choice too, and we support that here as well.
I'm less modest than you probably but I also sometimes see outfits I wouldn't be comfortable wearing. That doesn't mean I don't think they look amazing on the poster!
I don't know why people feel a need to bring others down when it's so easy to just be kind. That is what we want here. Women supporting women. People supporting other people. That's what I want this sub to always be about. Negativity and cruelty have no place here.
https://preview.redd.it/lt6srutfdi1g1.png?width=1192&format=png&auto=webp&s=869ab95ed99c3a1b716a14dc5155b6e96889b3d9
Thank you! I have found these sorts of morally policing comments disgusting. I’ve thought about leaving because of them but I’m glad I stuck around to see the mods DO care about women.
Unless a woman is specifically asking about the “modesty” of an outfit, I find it to be sexual harassment to bring up a woman’s body in relation to her clothing in that way. And it’s almost always directed at young women. Very concerning.
A lot of the people who can't wait to jump in and criticize for immodesty can't be bothered to offer any helpful advice on anything else. They just like to criticize. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves.
Oh I'm so glad a mod has said something. I occasionally browse through the sub and have often been disappointed by the attitude and constant modesty policing within. I saw a post about whether a work dinner dress was appropriate and many of the comments were unhelpful comments on making the dress more modest when imo what she needed was advice on how to make the outfit more professional. People are quick to downvote innocuous comments too.
As for solutions you're probably going to have to just get harsh. You could do like a normal judgement tag or rule but people are definitely gonna still break that lol. Very good of you to bring it up for discussion though, usually I see subs reach a melting point before much change takes place.
That's interesting - people conflate modest with professional. I'm sure there is overlap there but it's not the same thing.
I for one have been shocked at how conservative/judgy some commenters seem to be. I remember one girl showing her outfit for a concert and so many comments were saying she was showing too much skin. It was literally like a mini skirt and boots or something. Nothing too out there.
I've noticed the same! I'm particularly bothered by the pervasive idea that those outfits imply something about what you want to do - often sexually. I wear minis all the time. They are practically my uniform. It doesn't mean anything except that I like them and how I look in them.
I have often seen women shamed for clothing that I wear all the time.
Love that you wrote this! Thank you!
Welcome, ty for your comment!
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I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this.
It's not me I am concerned about. It's our posters. They are the ones putting themselves out there.
👏👏👏👏👏
This is a great topic and thanks for posting about it. In fact I think it should be made a sticky so that it’s always there, top of mind, to show that this sub (and our society) shouldnt promote misogynistic behaviour.
How to combat it? It’s tough it’s all around us like you said. Whether it’s Reddit or any other platform like IG or tiktok or X there are so many misogynistic comments towards women, judging them and sexualizing them and making character judgments and passing them off as okay or just “jokes”. It’s really sad. But how do we stop it? Well I think firstly having these conversations and talking about it is a positive step in the right direction. Ppl need to know and understand it is not okay to attack others this way.
I also think part of the problem, specifically with this sub, is that there is a large gap between older and younger users who ultimately have large differences in views towards fashion. Those that are older and hold more conservative views will judge younger and more liberal fashion choices more harshly. They don’t rlly think too much in the shoes of the poster but just judge them and the way they dress by their own situation and standards.
I think continually bringing up these issues, talking about it and telling ppl that it’s not right is the only way for ppl to learn. If u ban someone and remove their comments for their misogynistic take they prolly won’t learn from it bc they just think you’re uptight or can’t take a joke, but as you reinforce these further and explain that it isn’t right, it empowers others to step up to this conversation as well and over time we can push the needle in the right direction
I'm glad you fixed the typo in the first paragraph lol.
In the end, the way to combat it is to simply remove the problem. In some cases, we may try warnings, but in the end, if a user continues down that path, they will be banned. Bans for the first offense are quite common - it's the borderline cases that get warnings.
I do think there's correlation with age but I'd urge caution there too. My grandmother has purple hair and marched for civil rights and the ERA. She votes leftist. She goes to protest marches now for far left causes. She would be here cheering on every woman and telling them to fuck the patriarchy. I also made the mistake of assuming geography was key - and while I'm sure it also correlates - there are exceptions there too, as a user pointed out to me once.
We get a lot of people who try to argue it was just a joke. If that's their idea of a joke, we don't want them here.
lol I reread it and went oops!
yea and maybe that is the lesson here too: that we rlly can’t stereotype and judge ppl based on things we don’t know abt or they have no control over
Firstly, I think it’s great what you’re doing. I’ve only posted/commented here occasionally, but I’ve been admirer of the moderation style here. It’s really hard to remove the male gaze from fashion discussion, but it’s reeeally important that we try and don’t just give up entirely. So thank you for the effort there.
It’s just so easy to be exhibit misogyny online from every gender identity. Even on Instagram, where names and friend circles are often tied directly to accounts, people do it anyway. Anonymity only dumps gasoline on the problem.
I think it’s good to remove these comments and ban the perpetrators, but I can’t help but wish there were some social consequences for these folks. When they get hidden, I assume more misogynists are likely to pile on and agree, but I wish people would instead pile on and absolutely bury them for saying stuff like that.
I’ve heard it said that, “Women can just show their bodies and get attention for whatever they want,” but there are male versions of this too — guys showing off cars is such a great example. Instagram is full of content like this. No one calls these men lewd names. It’s not a perfect allegory, but no one would ever think to even try and draw a comparison to stuff men historically get attention for.
I probably have more thoughts but this is getting way too long
Some people were never taught “if you don’t have something nice to say, then don’t say anything at all” and it really shows. Thank you for making this post, and sharing some of the comments. Reading this post made me feel happy that there’s fight back against the shamers…and then I read the comments and just felt so disappointed in people instead. #1, there’s no place for shaming. #2, people have the right to feel good about themselves in whatever it is they are wearing. #3, as a woman, I’m already hard enough in myself as it is, I don’t need anyone else to chime in with that hard talk. #4, you have no idea what any of these people are going through. Your negative comments could be doing real mental damage to someone. Let’s cheer each on instead. Why is that so difficult?
I am hard on myself and so many of my friends are too. We certainly don't need other people piling on. Society is already so judgmental about how women look and sets impossible standards. Like one friend who had perfect skin used to talk about her acne scars. Another who was a totally normal and healthy weight would worry about her weight all the time. It's hard enough as it is, we shouldn't make it worse.
I've seen people on reddit pile on someone who is going through something really hard. I never want to be the person who does that.
If this was the fashion sub I would say that yes, a lot of pieces are objectifying women purposefully and there isn't a male equivalent since we don't see men in shear suits and g-strings on the red carpet and calling it "expressing their sexuality" or "fashion." But since this is downstream and more of a product of consumerism it's not really an individual's fault and we should point more towards people creating and profiting off of women's bodies.
I think you make some good points on how society treats men and women differently. We are always the ones who are sexualized. I think that criticism of an industry or society for the way it views women's bodies is entirely valid - but it shouldn't be extended to criticism of individual women making choices about how to dress. We have to live in this world. The deck is already stacked against us. I don't want to make it harder. I want to support other women.
I completely agree! It’s never ok to shame someone for their outfits. My policy - if you don’t have something nice to say, no need to say it ☺️
I think it’s also important that people take into account different cultural context with outfits when suggesting if something is “appropriate”.
It's such a simple rule and I wish more people thought like that! It would certainly make our job easier here!
Iv never seen any of what you mentioned in this sub. Most of the times I expect a kids to say stuff like pull the skirt up abit and repost etc but never have.
You don’t see it because we remove it. You can see on this thread OP who is a mod shared many screenshots about what she is talking about.
Funny, I see far more posts where the first photo is boob or booty shot that I read coments like this post is discussing. Prehaps it is when the outfits seems to be about cleavage, it holds less interest to me, hence I am less likely to click on that post and never see the comments.
This post brought to my mind a thesis I came across a few years back.
I can't get it to download right now, but the paper has a section on the social history of the Lolita style that may be pertinent to this discussion as it is both about the male gaze and the young women deliberately luring in that gaze. The paper also goes into changing societal sexual norms for young women.
A lot of that is because we remove them - look at some of the screenshots in this thread I just added.
I will check out the paper!
If comment guidance has ever annoyed you, this is why it exists.
Try this link. Lolita Latina : an examination of Gothic and Lolita style in the Mexican environment : a thesis submitted in fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Visual and Material Culture, College of Creative Arts, Massey University, Wellington, New Zealand https://share.google/YQ53tGKZGyQlkm3nl
Also, you might enjoy going over to Google Scholar, search for "gothic Lolita" then browsing the abstracts and papers.
The comment guidence that would not allow me to reference "Desperately Seeking Susan" was annoying because it took me a while to figure out why the comment would not post, lol!
Right and that's obviously not the point of comment guidance. It also triggers if you try to talk about Sex and the City. It's a very imperfect tool, but just seeing it off for the last several hours we've seen a huge uptick in people comparing posters to sex workers.
We can't have nice things because people can't behave.
I have some concerns about Lolita fashion myself. The origin of the word is obviously from Nabokov and that has some very creepy connotations, even if most people wearing it today are not thinking of it that way.
How disturbing is the idea though that to appeal to men, women would try to look like little girls? That's upsetting on so many levels.
I agree it is is disturbing on many levels. The young people wearing it may not be thinking of it that way only because they do not know the history. The older men absolutely know the history, and Japan in particular has been called out for this. This is CNN, not a reseqrch piece. "Japan school girl culture: The dark truth | CNN" https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/27/asia/japan-schoolgirl-cafes-jk
Yeah I agree with you on this. We've had discussions about lolita fashion in this sub. The opinions are mixed. I'm not entirely sure what I think myself. There's real darkness there though and it shouldn't be glossed over.
Where to draw the line then, between posters who do not yet know the history of these fahions, and well, your post?
Anyone who has frequently passed certain corners in the major cities of the world is familiar with the workwear of sex workers. Julia Roberts was a sex worker trying to attract the "male gaze" in this https://share.google/images/Dfiyr7pTCu8PRdpzE She was still a sex worker in this https://share.google/images/x14CqVIJd75eh8tH1, but the purpose of this white suit dress was that she not look like a sex worker. Same job, different workplace.
I do not know that a line can be found ever, much less in quick, short responses on Reddit.
At this time we don't draw the line. We allow any and all outfits (at least as far as modesty goes - we remove low effort/off topic outfits).
We ban adult content creators when we have evidence they are selling adult content, not because of what they wear in their posts on the subreddit.
It's women that slutt shame, not so much the men.
I’m not even in this sub but I found this post and I cried because this gave me hope again that there are people out there who care about what I’m going through and want to see things change for women who have been hurt by internalized misogyny. Most women are absolutely wonderful to me but there is still too many women/enough women I have met that have made my life a living hell with victim blaming, morality shaming (based on outfit or make up or body type), modesty policing, reputation damaging gossip feigned as concern and severe social exclusion. Like I said most women don’t do this but it does not take every woman doing this before it really traumatizes you as a person. Thank you so much for making this post because it really shows the ceiling of how women can be in supporting and standing up for one another 💖
This sub is all about women supporting other women! Thank you for your comment! I'm sorry you've had to go through all that.
I just came here from the post about the girl asking about dresses she knows are risque.
And I just gotta say that I love the spirit of this sub. I just wish I had a reason to post (no one cares which one of my graphic tees looks better with my blue jeans) or any fashion sense at all to comment. FWIW, I'm a dude that just wants to behave in a way that wouldn't disappoint my mother. Or my father, he was a pretty cool guy, too.
I like how the sub is sfw and a haven against subtle OF links, it really ensures that the community aspect is maintained. Something I wish more subs would do.
I'm gonna subscribe to this place for vibes alone.
Modesty tends to be a cultural thing and there are social mores associated with various cultures around dress. This doesn’t necessarily mean it is misogynistic. Reddit however invites everyone from all over to speak, so it’s not surprising there will be a clash of mores.
People are welcome to hold any views they choose for themselves, but judging others for their choices is sexist and won't be permitted.
If you want to dress modestly, this sub will support you completely.
If you want to shame others for not meeting standards of your culture or religion, you aren't welcome here.
The argument is that those policing others aren’t necessarily doing it out of misogyny whether permitted or not. I’m not arguing that policing others is a good thing to do.
It's not something we'll tolerate regardless of the person's internal motivations, which are impossible to know entirely anyways.
No agreed shouldn’t be tolerated. The point was solely that you can’t assume motives for basically anything written on forums.