It is an actual e-stop though, they look like that, it just needs the housing behind the plate (the bit with the electrical contact blocks and wiring). Source: I've fixed tens of them
They use a dual channel normally-closed signal. I wonder why they don't design the contact blocks so that they're only Normally Closed when the button is installed onto them, so if the button falls off or loosens then the machine stops. (there's probably a good reason)
Rockwell make self monitoring blocks that open if the contact block holder or contact block separates SMCB
So do Schneider Schneider SMCB. Not sure about other manufacturers.
They use a dual channel normally-closed signal. I wonder why they don't design the contact blocks so that they're only Normally Closed when the button is installed onto them, so if the button falls off or loosens then the machine stops. (there's probably a good reason)
I’ve had one fall apart on me and yes the machine will run with the button fallen off.
Which is your reason right here. The button maker just wants to sell buttons, and regulations don’t require that the button shouldn’t do that very specific thing.
The way such e-stops are mounted to the machine is absolutely atrocious. No other thing on that machine I worked on was mounted as badly as the e-stop.
Which is your reason right here. The button maker just wants to sell buttons, and regulations don’t require that the button shouldn’t do that very specific thing.
Yeah I'm going to disagree with that. These types of things are highly regulated and also enforced too.
There's almost certainly a very good engineering reason why they don't do it the way I suggested, I just can't think of it right now.
More exposed, maybe, since your circuit now extends up into the button?
No concerns about contact welding at safety circuit power, wear would increase but they fail safe if the wires break... If you install it wrong, then the circuit probably just doesn't form.
In many situations, hitting E-Stop vs. performing a graceful shutdown can have severe consequences for the health of the equipment and/or the ability to restart the system.
So, if you want an E-Stop to happen, it better be for a darn good reason determined by a human. Having an E-Stop occur because of button failure would therefore be catastrophic. Much better to have a process to inspect button condition regularly than to have it automatically E-Stop.
And if you're worried about a button failure occurring between regular inspections, you can solve that with redundancy by having multiple E-Stop buttons near each other.
He’s a good explanation why estops suck so much. Because the small business owner boss would prefer that the machine run with broken safety system, than not run.
Regulator would prefer it not run when broken, thats why its normally closed, except they never thought the switch makers will make the emergency stop be the absolute fucking jankiest switch of their whole lineup.
There's almost certainly a very good engineering reason why they don't do it the way I suggested, I just can't think of it right now.
Because the switches and actuators are modular and interchangeable, and the rest of the range has the switch spring push towards the actuator.
It's cheaper to use a bog standard momentary switch on the back of the plastic mushroom actuator, rather than manufacturing a special one that works in the opposite direction.
That's really bad, stop button should be the first things you rely on! . I used to work on printing presses and the old "Stop the presses" thing was very true because we had several different stops. One that would stop your area of the press. Ie the reelstand and nothing else which was used a lot. Another which would stop the entire press but the press could be started again at a push of a button and one which was the big EMERGENCY stop that someone, who had absolutely no idea about the machines and could have just walked in from outside would press if they saw someone in trouble. They were more of an insurance thing or last resort because the 'smaller' stop I mentioned before would absolutely stop the press and could easily be started again. Those big buttons , when pressed in the past have shut us down for hours at a time, sometimes a full day, because it will shut the whole software down and the software is old and 'clunky' and the only way we've been able to get it up and running again in the past is by paying the German manufactures a lot of money to walk us through it step by step over the phone
Once we had a breakdown and a guy who thought he was the dogs bollocks went into one of the control panels moving things around which made things so, so much worse. We had to fly a guy in from Germany to reprogram the whole thing. That on top of being stood for a whole week cost A LOT of money. I saw the idiot do it but of course you keep it to yourself and give him shit afterwards!
Yep, I was training a guy years ago, and we were having a problem with shitty maintenance and the bosses not providing funds to fix the issues. The plates weren't locking in properly because it needed fixing which obviously wasn't being done. When the plates came off during runs it sounded like a full auto machine gun being fired. New guy heard it and hit the BIG stop. People gave him shit but I stuck up for him and told them to fix the plate holders because it had been happening for a while and how was a new guy to know it and he was literally trying to do good at his new job.
I work with printing presses as well and for some reason they tried out having a shelf with the most needed stuff set up right next to the industrial compressor that powers all of the presse's rollers. I was grabbing a notepad one day and bumped the emergency stop that was inches away from the side of the shelf. It stopped all of the presses and the converting machinery but it was at least as easy as powering the compressor back up so they could get going again, and luckily it was at shift change so not much was going on at the time. The shelf was moved the next day lol
A stop button is a stop button, doesn't matter if its a laminator or a lathe! Will your boss care about you if you get hurt working for them? Highly doubt it!
shame op deleted the comment "it's safe unless you're an idiot" because it's a prime example of shoddy regulations leading to negligent coworkers. and the coworkers don't even think to post evidence unless they get karma on reddit. op said it doesn't matter so i doubt they are even reporting it to osha.
a good boss makes you care about yourself to save themselves money. for example, good anti fog safety glasses protect your eyes which are going to give you better visuals than any television could.
if a boss wants to be cheap on safety, they can make you buy your own stuff, but ignoring regulations will cost them money.
unfortunately bosses who don't enforce safety regulations are just idiots who can't do the math.
i don't think we are even registered to osha, we are such a small business.
i didnt want to get downvoted to oblivion with that comment, so i deleted it. yes, i did say that, and honestly, its a little hard for me to see why we would need an estop on that machine when it moves at ~.1 mph and cant pull any sort of weight on its own
Serious question, is laminating it's own job? I only ever got as far as mahogany on .118+.acrylic / epvc, but I said fuck this shit when they added it on top of material handling and shipping.
As someone who used to work in the industry I have maintained for years that OSHA needs more power. Companies will ignore violations outright because the fines are so small. Meanwhile whole time everyone working there is living on borrowed time because of their company's insistence on saving a little money
These things twist into a base on the other side, the base is usually only attached by the smallest screw know to man. Actually stopping the machine and then twisting the button to unlock it almost always ends like this eventually. Lock it machine and call maintenance/mechanic
That’s the perfect answer! “In case of emergency, depress button. After ten seconds, it will pop back out. Remove button, light cigarette, and kiss your ass goodbye “
Yeah this is some serious business, assuming this isn’t staged. Considerations made down to the type of contact behind that emergency stop are critical.
I pressed a non-detented one on a 40HP test stand once. The motor started sinning down till I let go. Then it started back up. The ass had blown out of a contact block on the 800T actuator.
They need to be tested weekly.
Lol, when doing unscheduled site audits I would hit the e- stop buttons to see what the reactions were, and if they worked - kinda a 50/50 thing. Goodtimes.
If it is instal correctly. The machine won't start/will shut down if it fall. It's because the emergency switch has a safety feature that if the buton fall the circuit is broken.
It's the emergency stop asking questions button: you press it, it falls off, you ask around, put it back, repeat.
Looks like a cigarette lighter
Honestly if I could get that as my cars lighter I would
You could adapt one in.
Brb gonna rip one off the machines at work
May I recommend a compactor of some kind?
Put a actual e stop next to it that throws you in park no matter what to keep it fun
And then anytime a passenger pushes it in you slam on the brakes as hard as you can.
I have one that looks like an eject button lmao
It is an actual e-stop though, they look like that, it just needs the housing behind the plate (the bit with the electrical contact blocks and wiring). Source: I've fixed tens of them
They use a dual channel normally-closed signal. I wonder why they don't design the contact blocks so that they're only Normally Closed when the button is installed onto them, so if the button falls off or loosens then the machine stops. (there's probably a good reason)
Rockwell make self monitoring blocks that open if the contact block holder or contact block separates SMCB So do Schneider Schneider SMCB. Not sure about other manufacturers.
I’ve had one fall apart on me and yes the machine will run with the button fallen off.
Which is your reason right here. The button maker just wants to sell buttons, and regulations don’t require that the button shouldn’t do that very specific thing.
The way such e-stops are mounted to the machine is absolutely atrocious. No other thing on that machine I worked on was mounted as badly as the e-stop.
Yeah I'm going to disagree with that. These types of things are highly regulated and also enforced too.
There's almost certainly a very good engineering reason why they don't do it the way I suggested, I just can't think of it right now.
More exposed, maybe, since your circuit now extends up into the button?
No concerns about contact welding at safety circuit power, wear would increase but they fail safe if the wires break... If you install it wrong, then the circuit probably just doesn't form.
Yeah I dunno! Might just be spec inertia.
In many situations, hitting E-Stop vs. performing a graceful shutdown can have severe consequences for the health of the equipment and/or the ability to restart the system.
So, if you want an E-Stop to happen, it better be for a darn good reason determined by a human. Having an E-Stop occur because of button failure would therefore be catastrophic. Much better to have a process to inspect button condition regularly than to have it automatically E-Stop.
And if you're worried about a button failure occurring between regular inspections, you can solve that with redundancy by having multiple E-Stop buttons near each other.
There’s a thousand other things in that machine that would be catastrophic if they fell off.
And yet the estop, the only purely safety thing on it, is what falls off.
Everything you just wrote is nonsense.
No it wouldn't. Having an e-stop occur because of button failure is absolutely one of the best justifications for an e-stop to occur.
Talk about nonsense!
It depends on the application. An unintentional, non-safety related e-stop can be catastrophic to equipment and production.
An e-Stop because the e-Stop mechanism just failed is in fact an extremely good thing.
Use that matter between your ears for something more than holding up your hat.
An e-stop activation due to a critical failure of the safety system is absolutely safety related. You're wrong that you think otherwise.
He’s a good explanation why estops suck so much. Because the small business owner boss would prefer that the machine run with broken safety system, than not run.
Regulator would prefer it not run when broken, thats why its normally closed, except they never thought the switch makers will make the emergency stop be the absolute fucking jankiest switch of their whole lineup.
Oh sure, the normally closed electrical connection is mandated and nobody’s gonna skimp on that.
Also a really good reason for mounting it worse than literally anything else on that machine.
The reason is that it’s shite.
Because the switches and actuators are modular and interchangeable, and the rest of the range has the switch spring push towards the actuator.
It's cheaper to use a bog standard momentary switch on the back of the plastic mushroom actuator, rather than manufacturing a special one that works in the opposite direction.
It's how a lot of E-stops look when they don't have the back part attached.
I guess you should call me Captain Obvious.
? Genuinely didn't know if you had seen a disassembled E-stop before. Unless you've installed one there's no reason to think you would.
They easily break when people rabbit punch them. Yeah, I've seen a few from the inside out.
That's really bad, stop button should be the first things you rely on! . I used to work on printing presses and the old "Stop the presses" thing was very true because we had several different stops. One that would stop your area of the press. Ie the reelstand and nothing else which was used a lot. Another which would stop the entire press but the press could be started again at a push of a button and one which was the big EMERGENCY stop that someone, who had absolutely no idea about the machines and could have just walked in from outside would press if they saw someone in trouble. They were more of an insurance thing or last resort because the 'smaller' stop I mentioned before would absolutely stop the press and could easily be started again. Those big buttons , when pressed in the past have shut us down for hours at a time, sometimes a full day, because it will shut the whole software down and the software is old and 'clunky' and the only way we've been able to get it up and running again in the past is by paying the German manufactures a lot of money to walk us through it step by step over the phone
Once we had a breakdown and a guy who thought he was the dogs bollocks went into one of the control panels moving things around which made things so, so much worse. We had to fly a guy in from Germany to reprogram the whole thing. That on top of being stood for a whole week cost A LOT of money. I saw the idiot do it but of course you keep it to yourself and give him shit afterwards!
the big emergency button was the "oh fuck" button
Yep, I was training a guy years ago, and we were having a problem with shitty maintenance and the bosses not providing funds to fix the issues. The plates weren't locking in properly because it needed fixing which obviously wasn't being done. When the plates came off during runs it sounded like a full auto machine gun being fired. New guy heard it and hit the BIG stop. People gave him shit but I stuck up for him and told them to fix the plate holders because it had been happening for a while and how was a new guy to know it and he was literally trying to do good at his new job.
I hated that place so much!
....did it get fixed?
Of course, not. Be realistic.
Took about 2 years. Not joking
I work with printing presses as well and for some reason they tried out having a shelf with the most needed stuff set up right next to the industrial compressor that powers all of the presse's rollers. I was grabbing a notepad one day and bumped the emergency stop that was inches away from the side of the shelf. It stopped all of the presses and the converting machinery but it was at least as easy as powering the compressor back up so they could get going again, and luckily it was at shift change so not much was going on at the time. The shelf was moved the next day lol
Did the idiot get in trouble with management?
[deleted]
A stop button is a stop button, doesn't matter if its a laminator or a lathe! Will your boss care about you if you get hurt working for them? Highly doubt it!
shame op deleted the comment "it's safe unless you're an idiot" because it's a prime example of shoddy regulations leading to negligent coworkers. and the coworkers don't even think to post evidence unless they get karma on reddit. op said it doesn't matter so i doubt they are even reporting it to osha.
a good boss makes you care about yourself to save themselves money. for example, good anti fog safety glasses protect your eyes which are going to give you better visuals than any television could.
if a boss wants to be cheap on safety, they can make you buy your own stuff, but ignoring regulations will cost them money.
unfortunately bosses who don't enforce safety regulations are just idiots who can't do the math.
i don't think we are even registered to osha, we are such a small business.
i didnt want to get downvoted to oblivion with that comment, so i deleted it. yes, i did say that, and honestly, its a little hard for me to see why we would need an estop on that machine when it moves at ~.1 mph and cant pull any sort of weight on its own
who cares about karma lol.
i do 🤷♀️
[deleted]
Good for him !
Did you lift the roll to prolong it's service life after you used it?
This guy laminates.
Serious question, is laminating it's own job? I only ever got as far as mahogany on .118+.acrylic / epvc, but I said fuck this shit when they added it on top of material handling and shipping.
yeah, lamination is a separate process here. i can't share too much because im on an nda but we use a roland with it
Its* service life
no
Hot take from someone not in the industry: OSHA should have the power to arrest managers who break safety codes
Or shut a place completely like fire marshalls can, until it's fixed.
Non-American here. OSHA doesn’t have the power to issue stop-work orders?
They can't stop a whole place, but for ex they can order for a crane doing something to stop and bring down what it's lifting etc. o
As someone who used to work in the industry I have maintained for years that OSHA needs more power. Companies will ignore violations outright because the fines are so small. Meanwhile whole time everyone working there is living on borrowed time because of their company's insistence on saving a little money
That is one of those fancy Bluetooth E-Stops
These things twist into a base on the other side, the base is usually only attached by the smallest screw know to man. Actually stopping the machine and then twisting the button to unlock it almost always ends like this eventually. Lock it machine and call maintenance/mechanic
that would be lovely if we weren't a small business of >10 people
Small business of greater than 10 people?
less than, sorry im not smart
Why does that stop you from locking the machine and calling a mechanic?
because i dont have a lock and i cant stop production. the shop is too broke to call a mechanic
Cheap switch but the mechanical bits are likely inside the housing if you want to fix it.
yea, looks like someone turned it too hard and the bayonet mounted switch inside came off..
It's not decorative, it serve a legal function
It's fine, there are two other buttons on the machine that you can use. /s
That's the "oh stop it" button
That’s to light your last cig
That’s the perfect answer! “In case of emergency, depress button. After ten seconds, it will pop back out. Remove button, light cigarette, and kiss your ass goodbye “
Oh it's one of those cigarette lighters
That coil looked like it to me.
Yeah this is some serious business, assuming this isn’t staged. Considerations made down to the type of contact behind that emergency stop are critical.
Remember, production over safety!
I fully expected that to be a cigarette lighter ngl
I pressed a non-detented one on a 40HP test stand once. The motor started sinning down till I let go. Then it started back up. The ass had blown out of a contact block on the 800T actuator.
They need to be tested weekly.
meanwhile his RIGHT hand is slowly being sucked into the rollers.
Is that a car lighter?
Emergency fidget
Are you not supposed to push it?
That’s actually a cigarette lighter. 🙃
We had a few of these at one of the Ford plants I worked at.
Lol, when doing unscheduled site audits I would hit the e- stop buttons to see what the reactions were, and if they worked - kinda a 50/50 thing. Goodtimes.
You're supposed to throw it to the operator's face to stop the machine
I have the same laminator. It kinda sucks.
yes holy shit its the worst laminator known to man
I also have the same lamintor. It kinda sucks.
Display model…?
Its stress relief button
Maybe you push it in to stop?
Reminds me of the Family Guy gag with the novelty fire extinguisher.
I loved that laminator, bought one used for700 and got my money’s worth
r/thefrontfelloff
Inspect animation
If it is instal correctly. The machine won't start/will shut down if it fall. It's because the emergency switch has a safety feature that if the buton fall the circuit is broken.
Lmao, I want to make a bunch of those that are magnetic now.
E-motional Support Stop
This made my hands itchy. Gotta fix
In an emergency it stops being a button.
Aren’t you supposed to smack these, rather than pull on them?
"Safety is a recommendation, not a priority" type shit.
It looks like the button just fell apart. If you look inside you'll probably see the actual switch part hanging out
it is empty unfortunately, we got this laminator from a garage sale