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If men were actually incapable of functioning in society because of their testosterone levels, we'd be like elephants and kick out men from the matriarchal group once they matured, only tolerating their presence for reproduction during mating season.
Men lashing out, raping, etc. are rarely "out of control of their actions" as evidenced by the fact they take into account the presence/lack of witnesses and rarely damage possessions important to them.
As a counterpoint, does anyone really think a woman would get any sympathy if they committed a violent crime because she was a week away from her period, she had just changed her birth control and her PMS was acting up something awful?
Because that's basically what we're talking about.
I have heard that menopausal rage is a force to behold (not looking forward to this in my future) but I have not heard of women in their 50’s committing a lot of violent crimes. I assume it’s because they keep some control over themselves…
Imagine if some Nazi war criminal, or British or Dutch official on trial for colonial atrocities, mounted the defense of "But you see, I couldn't help my innate furor Teutonicus; we Germanic peoples are just born with an insatiable thirst for blood!
Fun fact: eunuchs historically were associated with some of the same negative stereotypes also applied to women, including both "duplicitous bitch" (especially in the context of their usual positions as royal courtiers) and, relevant to this thread's subject of hormones, "hysterical"
Roid rage is different from naturally having too high of a testosterone level. The post is bullshit. All those things mentioned are a result of lack of accountability and responsibility, not hormones, except the extreme sports part which is driven by adrenaline and not testosterone.
In my case, speaking anecdotally [shrill ContraPoints voice] AS A TRANS WOMAN:
My natural hormone levels, AND my levels when I was on oral estradiol and spiro, tended to make me more emotionally erratic, especially without my proper psych meds
When I'm at my natural hormone levels, that tends to express as a mix of panic and rage, sometimes in quick succession
Going on E and spiro made me more prone to loud rage in the first few months, and subsequently more prone to panic
Currently I'm on oral progesterone and injected E, and I'm probably the most emotionally stable I've been in a long-ass time (admittedly a low bar)
While extreme levels of T can prompt more intense emotional responses, most studies show that T's effect is in every direction, not just in the direction of "anger." Which means if a guy is more prone to anger, sure it'll get worse, but he's still an angry person on his own, there's no magic bio-blame to let him dodge culpability for it
It is actually the fluctuation and excess/deficiency of hormones itself in humans rather than the amount that causes changes to mood. The exact same is true of women and estrogen, which is why many of us experience mood swings and increased emotional volatility when menstruating and during menopause.
The idea that testosterone itself exclusively and/or inherently causes higher amounts of rage/aggression is bioessentialist, scientifically proven to be untrue, and unhelpful to anyone. It's the exact same argument that men use to invalidate and belittle women as hysterical or too emotional, just in reverse. Men have a higher tendency towards aggression because society enables and encourages them to do so by framing that aggression as powerful and manly and by both refusing to teach them other emotional management/coping skills and by framing those other, healthier emotional responses as weak and feminine. Using the same BS bioessentialist narrative to discredit them on the basis of their hormones just gives credence to their BS arguments about us.
Bobby Joe Long was man with XXY syndrome…a condition that can result in excessive oestrogen, lower testosterone and lower libido. He was also a serial killer and serial rapist. It’s just not that simple.
As a trans man, this idiocy is painful. I was warned by educated doctors that Testosterone could make me more angry and aggressive. Y'know what actually happened? I got calmer and more assertive because my gender dysphoria and the associated anxiety and depression eased up significantly. The studies don't support that assumption anymore, anyway. The only time it causes anger and violence is when it's abused and you're looking at long-term overdose symptoms.
Unfortunately, we do have an intimate relationship with testosterone and it's effects. I'm in the online community too, so I notice how rare it is for a guy to pop up with "it's happening, I'm more violent now". And I have yet to see an example of a guy actually becoming violent on testosterone. It's always been victims of abuse having reasonable angry outbursts in response to their abuse and then getting gaslit into believing they're the abusive one because they had the outburst. It's never been a case of a guy going "oh I want to beat women now and treat them like sexual objects because I can and I want to."
Obviously, there are misogynistic trans men. It happens. But it's something that existed a long time before they started testosterone.
Testosterone made me calmer too and not only because it helped with dysphoria. Actually, when I start losing my temper and patience that’s my cue to get my levels checked because it’s a sign my T is too LOW.
Also trans guy here, definitely got more confident on T. But anger is definitely not something I deal with on a regular basis, I don’t even get agitated any more than I did before.
I did however get a lot hungrier. So maybe hangry?
It’s more correlated with lack of impulse control. Lack of impulse control is highly correlated with all sorts of crime and just lack of success in life in general.
im pretty sure most rapes dont happen because men get horny and lose control, but are part of a culture where men enforce their power over women and disregard their personal autonomy.
It’s an extremely well documented link. If you put ‘low impulse control and violent crime’ into a search bar, a huge number of articles and links come up. I’m on a phone which makes giving a comprehensive literature review a bit difficult and also about to leave the house, but try putting that in google scholar and see what comes up.
You are correct in linking violent crime and impulse control, but not all violent crime is equal. It's easier to shoot someone when you're angry than it is to rape them. Rape tends to have more steps and thus (generally) requires premeditation.
Now, does rape happen because of a lack of impulse control? Sometimes. But there are many more reasons people rape outside of impulse
The post is not only concerning rape but also domestic and other violence, most of the violent crimes linked are in fact the kind of spontaneous crimes that low impulse control is a risk factor for.
Except most rapists use alcohol or other substances to incapacitate their victims, which in and of itself is an act of premeditation. They usually also take the victim to a place where they won’t be seen or interrupted. So they’re aware what they’re doing is wrong, realise there would be consequences and decide to do it anyway. They actively try to conceal their crime, even before the fact, and they take care that they’ll get to complete it. Not all that impulsive.
Most rapists are also quite selective about their victims and very rarely assault someone who has the power to actually retaliate, personally or by proxy, such as their boss, a rich heiress or the kid of a mafia boss. Because they do understand that, unlike with assaulting some rando who will have to rely on their luck with a very fucked up judicial system, there will be problems if they attack someone with actual power. Also contradicts choosing to do it on mere impulse.
Nor do you see the vast majority of rapists randomly jump people in the open street in broad daylight, which they would be doing if they had such poor control over themselves. People who do something on mere impulse don’t plan the most strategically advantageous way to commit their crime.
Sure, it may be true of a number of coercive and forcible attacks, such as consensual sex gone sour (e.g. ignoring a request to stop or doing something not agreed upon, like anal, spontaneously), or pressuring the victim into it when horny and ignoring their no, non-verbal signs of disagreement like backing away, a lack of response, or bad responses like crying. And for crimes of opportunity, like Brock Turner’s.
I can believe it for a substantial number of rapists, though many of them still at least partially act with premeditation. But they’re not in the majority. To use Turner’s example: I don’t remember if they determined he actually found Miller behind that dumpster or actively moved her there. But it would seem likely he’d move her behind an obscuring object, and it makes little sense for her to lie there otherwise. While it’s a convenient spot for the commission of his crime. At least it would’ve been, if it weren’t for the lucky coincidence of the two Swedes cycling by in the middle of the night.
So even rapes that could realistically be classified as somewhat impulsive aren’t entirely free of considerations to avoid interference and capture. The overwhelming majority of perpetrators are not just acting on impulse. They make a conscious decision to rape. They understand they shouldn’t, but they do it anyway, and they’re cold-blooded and controlled enough to know to hide it in the vast majority of cases.
Poor impulse control doesn’t eliminate your agency and responsibility. You may have a harder time to stop yourself from doing stupid and irresponsible stuff — primarily to your own detriment — but you still can decide against it. You’re not a runaway train. Even addicts can learn to call someone before they go pick up drugs.
Poor impulse control makes you doomscroll all day instead of studying for a pending exam, drink too much at a party when you need to get up early next morning, or eat the whole bag of chips in one sitting. It doesn’t make you commit rape out of the blue. That’s a behaviour that requires a lot more serious inhibition overcoming, and a hell lot of rationalising mental gymnastics and/or denial.
The fact that even most psychopaths — a population with notoriously poor impulse control and often significant lack of emotional empathy, shame, fear and remorse — aren’t rapists should clue you in that it’s really not that easy to get to this point. You have to want to do it. And then to give yourself permission to act on it.
Many rapists have admitted that they’ve fantasised about it and debated it for a long time before they actually struck for the first time. Rape is not just a random impulsive act in the vast majority of cases.
I don't think they are excusing the behaviour by saying it's due to a lack of impulse control.
You are also very correct in contradicting them.
"The empirical evidence indicates that while some sex offenders have trouble with sexual impulse control, this is not the case for all sexual offenders. In fact, research shows that a comparably small number of sex offenders have problems with self-regulation (Proulx, Perreault & Ouimet, 1999)." - Etiology of Adult Sexual Offending
by Susan Faupel, M.S.W., and Roger Przybylski
It’s definitely a risk factor and I never implied causation. In fact it is a well known and well studied risk factor. Do you just pop in and say ‘correlation=/=causation’ whenever you see the word correlation? Is there perhaps some kind of Pavlovian trigger at play?
Sociology crime and deviance… 20 years and three degrees ago. Low impulse control is a well studied risk factor in violent crimes. In multivariate models it generally ranks one of the risk factors with more strength in the model. Certainly higher than ‘T’, which is what people here try to blame it on.
I don't think most of the people correcting you are blaming it on 'T'... They're pointing out that poor impulse control is difficult to blame for premeditated crimes, which rape often is. The uncle who grooms his niece has likely spent quite a bit of time ensuring he's alone with her, that she won't tell anyone, etc. That does not largely track with the concept of poor impulse control.
Imo a significant factor is not testosterone itself but the way society often excuses men's poor behavior & discourages women from standing up for themselves.
It seems you don’t understand what a risk factor is, and your takeaway from stats 101 was that correlations don’t matter because they’re not causation.
I think the term 'well it helps we don't have the drug T coursing through our veins' is supposed to say that men have extreme amounts of T in comparison to women, not that women don't have T
I am a trans woman who no longer has an ounce of testosterone in my body. And arguably I am more controlled by my nethers than I ever was before.....BUT I WOULD NEVER RAPE SOMEONE.
My God rape is a choice, it's not driven by testosterone. I don't like the stuff but it doesn't need this kind of slander.
Funny how we can go to the grocery store, work, etc and see plenty of men out there in the world and yet somehow the overwhelming majority of those guys manage to peacefully exist like normal human beings doing normal everyday stuff. Like in all my years I've never once seen any of them laying withering on the floor of a store, unable to function due to such wild, overbearing urges.
Has OOP ever considered that maybe the people they mentioned are, in fact, abnormally deranged individuals?
We're human beings, behaviors are a choice.
I can give it that, sure, hormones (and not just that one) can, esp when levels shift (oh hi PMS), make people feel more aggressive or agitated at times, among other things. But considering throughout history men have often valued civilized and peaceful communities, etc... that kind of flies in the face of what OOP is saying. Humans developed the intelligence for self-control.
So, as a trans person with adhd who is on testosterone, there is a very short period called second puberty where there is extreme horniness. So I had extra extra energy. All you need to do is exercise and masturbate. Literally that’s it.
Or get the depo shot. If they can’t control their urges, that surely will.
I just want to make a note that women indeed do have testosterone in their bodies, just a smaller amount than men, and yes it decreases after your 30-40's, but you still have it in your body, as your bones and and muscle mass and energy and libido needs it, so the op is wrong in that statement, and as well as the same can go for estrogen in men, as said just in smaller amounts compared to women.
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones.
We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning.
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If men were actually incapable of functioning in society because of their testosterone levels, we'd be like elephants and kick out men from the matriarchal group once they matured, only tolerating their presence for reproduction during mating season.
Men lashing out, raping, etc. are rarely "out of control of their actions" as evidenced by the fact they take into account the presence/lack of witnesses and rarely damage possessions important to them.
Exactly. Men choose to do those things. Hormones aren't making them mindless fuck bois... their stupidity and selfishness are a choice.
Exactly. Many times we’ve been shown that abusers and rapists CHOOSE when to allow themselves to “lost control”
As a counterpoint, does anyone really think a woman would get any sympathy if they committed a violent crime because she was a week away from her period, she had just changed her birth control and her PMS was acting up something awful?
Because that's basically what we're talking about.
I have heard that menopausal rage is a force to behold (not looking forward to this in my future) but I have not heard of women in their 50’s committing a lot of violent crimes. I assume it’s because they keep some control over themselves…
Some women are already kicking men out of their lives
Men abuse because it gives them benefits, and they feel entitled to those benefits.
It's a choice.
Imagine if some Nazi war criminal, or British or Dutch official on trial for colonial atrocities, mounted the defense of "But you see, I couldn't help my innate furor Teutonicus; we Germanic peoples are just born with an insatiable thirst for blood!
If they really think like this then why do they want men in any kind of position of power?
i think oop is a woman. they say „we dont have t“. it’s possible they dont want men in positions of power. or perhaps just those without weak minds.
Or eunuchs?
Fun fact: eunuchs historically were associated with some of the same negative stereotypes also applied to women, including both "duplicitous bitch" (especially in the context of their usual positions as royal courtiers) and, relevant to this thread's subject of hormones, "hysterical"
im not surprised
Could be a might makes right mentality or a lesser of two evils
i cannot fathom what athletes have to do with this
Yeah, the way they dropped extreme sports athletes in with rapists and murderers was an odd choice!
It's kinda true but that's usually when you have an unusually high amount of testosterone. Which makes you more
angryemotional than horny really.It’s why when guys go on steroids, a lot of them start acting reckless and having affairs and having roid rage.
Roid rage is different from naturally having too high of a testosterone level. The post is bullshit. All those things mentioned are a result of lack of accountability and responsibility, not hormones, except the extreme sports part which is driven by adrenaline and not testosterone.
Low testosterone can actually make them irritable and moody.
In my case, speaking anecdotally [shrill ContraPoints voice] AS A TRANS WOMAN:
My natural hormone levels, AND my levels when I was on oral estradiol and spiro, tended to make me more emotionally erratic, especially without my proper psych meds
When I'm at my natural hormone levels, that tends to express as a mix of panic and rage, sometimes in quick succession
Going on E and spiro made me more prone to loud rage in the first few months, and subsequently more prone to panic
Currently I'm on oral progesterone and injected E, and I'm probably the most emotionally stable I've been in a long-ass time (admittedly a low bar)
While extreme levels of T can prompt more intense emotional responses, most studies show that T's effect is in every direction, not just in the direction of "anger." Which means if a guy is more prone to anger, sure it'll get worse, but he's still an angry person on his own, there's no magic bio-blame to let him dodge culpability for it
It is actually the fluctuation and excess/deficiency of hormones itself in humans rather than the amount that causes changes to mood. The exact same is true of women and estrogen, which is why many of us experience mood swings and increased emotional volatility when menstruating and during menopause.
The idea that testosterone itself exclusively and/or inherently causes higher amounts of rage/aggression is bioessentialist, scientifically proven to be untrue, and unhelpful to anyone. It's the exact same argument that men use to invalidate and belittle women as hysterical or too emotional, just in reverse. Men have a higher tendency towards aggression because society enables and encourages them to do so by framing that aggression as powerful and manly and by both refusing to teach them other emotional management/coping skills and by framing those other, healthier emotional responses as weak and feminine. Using the same BS bioessentialist narrative to discredit them on the basis of their hormones just gives credence to their BS arguments about us.
Bobby Joe Long was man with XXY syndrome…a condition that can result in excessive oestrogen, lower testosterone and lower libido. He was also a serial killer and serial rapist. It’s just not that simple.
Also I mentioned eunuchs upthread and they were responsible for a lot of political assassinations
As a trans man, this idiocy is painful. I was warned by educated doctors that Testosterone could make me more angry and aggressive. Y'know what actually happened? I got calmer and more assertive because my gender dysphoria and the associated anxiety and depression eased up significantly. The studies don't support that assumption anymore, anyway. The only time it causes anger and violence is when it's abused and you're looking at long-term overdose symptoms.
Took me way too long to find a comment by a T guy saying, "not how that works"
Unfortunately, we do have an intimate relationship with testosterone and it's effects. I'm in the online community too, so I notice how rare it is for a guy to pop up with "it's happening, I'm more violent now". And I have yet to see an example of a guy actually becoming violent on testosterone. It's always been victims of abuse having reasonable angry outbursts in response to their abuse and then getting gaslit into believing they're the abusive one because they had the outburst. It's never been a case of a guy going "oh I want to beat women now and treat them like sexual objects because I can and I want to."
Obviously, there are misogynistic trans men. It happens. But it's something that existed a long time before they started testosterone.
Testosterone made me calmer too and not only because it helped with dysphoria. Actually, when I start losing my temper and patience that’s my cue to get my levels checked because it’s a sign my T is too LOW.
Also trans guy here, definitely got more confident on T. But anger is definitely not something I deal with on a regular basis, I don’t even get agitated any more than I did before.
I did however get a lot hungrier. So maybe hangry?
Isn't this not how men work?
this is indeed not how men work. t is not the reason men become rapists or other kinds of violent criminals more often than women.
It’s more correlated with lack of impulse control. Lack of impulse control is highly correlated with all sorts of crime and just lack of success in life in general.
im pretty sure most rapes dont happen because men get horny and lose control, but are part of a culture where men enforce their power over women and disregard their personal autonomy.
That’s certainly a contributing factor, but violent crime in general is highly correlated with low impulse control. A lot of poor outcomes are.
sounds like you have a statistic i need to read ;) could you link it?
It’s an extremely well documented link. If you put ‘low impulse control and violent crime’ into a search bar, a huge number of articles and links come up. I’m on a phone which makes giving a comprehensive literature review a bit difficult and also about to leave the house, but try putting that in google scholar and see what comes up.
You are correct in linking violent crime and impulse control, but not all violent crime is equal. It's easier to shoot someone when you're angry than it is to rape them. Rape tends to have more steps and thus (generally) requires premeditation.
Now, does rape happen because of a lack of impulse control? Sometimes. But there are many more reasons people rape outside of impulse
The post is not only concerning rape but also domestic and other violence, most of the violent crimes linked are in fact the kind of spontaneous crimes that low impulse control is a risk factor for.
OP is, but the person you replied to was talking about rape
Except most rapists use alcohol or other substances to incapacitate their victims, which in and of itself is an act of premeditation. They usually also take the victim to a place where they won’t be seen or interrupted. So they’re aware what they’re doing is wrong, realise there would be consequences and decide to do it anyway. They actively try to conceal their crime, even before the fact, and they take care that they’ll get to complete it. Not all that impulsive.
Most rapists are also quite selective about their victims and very rarely assault someone who has the power to actually retaliate, personally or by proxy, such as their boss, a rich heiress or the kid of a mafia boss. Because they do understand that, unlike with assaulting some rando who will have to rely on their luck with a very fucked up judicial system, there will be problems if they attack someone with actual power. Also contradicts choosing to do it on mere impulse.
Nor do you see the vast majority of rapists randomly jump people in the open street in broad daylight, which they would be doing if they had such poor control over themselves. People who do something on mere impulse don’t plan the most strategically advantageous way to commit their crime.
Sure, it may be true of a number of coercive and forcible attacks, such as consensual sex gone sour (e.g. ignoring a request to stop or doing something not agreed upon, like anal, spontaneously), or pressuring the victim into it when horny and ignoring their no, non-verbal signs of disagreement like backing away, a lack of response, or bad responses like crying. And for crimes of opportunity, like Brock Turner’s.
I can believe it for a substantial number of rapists, though many of them still at least partially act with premeditation. But they’re not in the majority. To use Turner’s example: I don’t remember if they determined he actually found Miller behind that dumpster or actively moved her there. But it would seem likely he’d move her behind an obscuring object, and it makes little sense for her to lie there otherwise. While it’s a convenient spot for the commission of his crime. At least it would’ve been, if it weren’t for the lucky coincidence of the two Swedes cycling by in the middle of the night.
So even rapes that could realistically be classified as somewhat impulsive aren’t entirely free of considerations to avoid interference and capture. The overwhelming majority of perpetrators are not just acting on impulse. They make a conscious decision to rape. They understand they shouldn’t, but they do it anyway, and they’re cold-blooded and controlled enough to know to hide it in the vast majority of cases.
Poor impulse control doesn’t eliminate your agency and responsibility. You may have a harder time to stop yourself from doing stupid and irresponsible stuff — primarily to your own detriment — but you still can decide against it. You’re not a runaway train. Even addicts can learn to call someone before they go pick up drugs.
Poor impulse control makes you doomscroll all day instead of studying for a pending exam, drink too much at a party when you need to get up early next morning, or eat the whole bag of chips in one sitting. It doesn’t make you commit rape out of the blue. That’s a behaviour that requires a lot more serious inhibition overcoming, and a hell lot of rationalising mental gymnastics and/or denial.
The fact that even most psychopaths — a population with notoriously poor impulse control and often significant lack of emotional empathy, shame, fear and remorse — aren’t rapists should clue you in that it’s really not that easy to get to this point. You have to want to do it. And then to give yourself permission to act on it.
Many rapists have admitted that they’ve fantasised about it and debated it for a long time before they actually struck for the first time. Rape is not just a random impulsive act in the vast majority of cases.
I don't think they are excusing the behaviour by saying it's due to a lack of impulse control.
You are also very correct in contradicting them.
"The empirical evidence indicates that while some sex offenders have trouble with sexual impulse control, this is not the case for all sexual offenders. In fact, research shows that a comparably small number of sex offenders have problems with self-regulation (Proulx, Perreault & Ouimet, 1999)." - Etiology of Adult Sexual Offending by Susan Faupel, M.S.W., and Roger Przybylski
Correlation =/= causation
It’s definitely a risk factor and I never implied causation. In fact it is a well known and well studied risk factor. Do you just pop in and say ‘correlation=/=causation’ whenever you see the word correlation? Is there perhaps some kind of Pavlovian trigger at play?
No, only when I see people acting as if correlation=causation.
Aw, someone just took their psych 101 midterms...
Sociology crime and deviance… 20 years and three degrees ago. Low impulse control is a well studied risk factor in violent crimes. In multivariate models it generally ranks one of the risk factors with more strength in the model. Certainly higher than ‘T’, which is what people here try to blame it on.
I don't think most of the people correcting you are blaming it on 'T'... They're pointing out that poor impulse control is difficult to blame for premeditated crimes, which rape often is. The uncle who grooms his niece has likely spent quite a bit of time ensuring he's alone with her, that she won't tell anyone, etc. That does not largely track with the concept of poor impulse control.
Imo a significant factor is not testosterone itself but the way society often excuses men's poor behavior & discourages women from standing up for themselves.
Then one would think you'd know better
It seems you don’t understand what a risk factor is, and your takeaway from stats 101 was that correlations don’t matter because they’re not causation.
The first comment would fit this sub. We infact have T in us.
I think the term 'well it helps we don't have the drug T coursing through our veins' is supposed to say that men have extreme amounts of T in comparison to women, not that women don't have T
I am a trans woman who no longer has an ounce of testosterone in my body. And arguably I am more controlled by my nethers than I ever was before.....BUT I WOULD NEVER RAPE SOMEONE.
My God rape is a choice, it's not driven by testosterone. I don't like the stuff but it doesn't need this kind of slander.
Thank you. Rape is something men chose to do.
Funny how we can go to the grocery store, work, etc and see plenty of men out there in the world and yet somehow the overwhelming majority of those guys manage to peacefully exist like normal human beings doing normal everyday stuff. Like in all my years I've never once seen any of them laying withering on the floor of a store, unable to function due to such wild, overbearing urges.
Has OOP ever considered that maybe the people they mentioned are, in fact, abnormally deranged individuals?
We're human beings, behaviors are a choice.
I can give it that, sure, hormones (and not just that one) can, esp when levels shift (oh hi PMS), make people feel more aggressive or agitated at times, among other things. But considering throughout history men have often valued civilized and peaceful communities, etc... that kind of flies in the face of what OOP is saying. Humans developed the intelligence for self-control.
men stop relating or faulting things to biology challenge failed once again
You really think that poster was a man? Look at who they're talking about when they say "we."
Sounds like someone with really dark urges projecting
Roid rage is real. Normal testosterone levels don't make half the population into assholes. Hope this helps the OOP.
So, as a trans person with adhd who is on testosterone, there is a very short period called second puberty where there is extreme horniness. So I had extra extra energy. All you need to do is exercise and masturbate. Literally that’s it.
Or get the depo shot. If they can’t control their urges, that surely will.
I just want to make a note that women indeed do have testosterone in their bodies, just a smaller amount than men, and yes it decreases after your 30-40's, but you still have it in your body, as your bones and and muscle mass and energy and libido needs it, so the op is wrong in that statement, and as well as the same can go for estrogen in men, as said just in smaller amounts compared to women.
Weird. When I started T I just cried a lot over those Sarah MacLachlan ASPCA ads.