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It makes me so sad that even in 2025 this person thinks that men have “better things to do than washing dishes or vacuuming”, but women don’t. More women are literally graduating from medical school (and even applying to med school) than men (my med school class was something like 57 women and 43 men), and this is true for many other post secondary degrees as well- but men still are seen as having more legitimate ambitions than women. I hate it so much.
The majority of men with this mindset are not doing anything that would prevent them from sharing the duties around the house. They work normal jobs, if they work at all. If they really want to stretch their Weaponized Incompetence, weekends exist.
This is just an excuse to not do chores and maintain the house that they live in.
The text has "us" and then "they," so I'm not at all positive that it isn't a man posting their stereotypical rottage on this (religious) point to justify our "moral subjugation."
I was talking about the first one in purple not the blue guy. That’s 100% a guy and a bad one at that. Obv there’s a good chance “I’m a woman” is lying. But it’s a very realistic self defeating pov of someone who’s so good at managing their expectations that they don’t have any.
It mostly is. Seems like finding a decent guy is like looking for a unicorn these days. Just makes me extra grateful to have one I've been with for decades. Seems like the younger people are all turning to the manosphere, which will turn them into incels :(
Remember that that line - “you will do as he commands or suffer eternal punishment” - doesn’t come from Jesus, but the Apostle Paul, who was forcefully converted by God decades after Jesus’s death.
Paul was also an unmarried man who relied on the charity of churches he went visited to support his work and got arrested and escaped frequently from prison.
Christians follow the words of Paul more much often than Jesus Christ, they should be labeled Paulians.
The Bible also says that it's totally cool to live a single life if you feel called to it. There's nothing in the Bible that says "women must vacuum the carpet and be a bangmaid for a man who has 'more important things to do than take care of his own house' or burn in hell".
So, I have a very religious coworker and I actually asked why fear was a good reason to worship God. He said it wasn't about the fear itself, but that it's a way to acknowledge the extreme power of God. He does love all of us, but he has standards and if you don't meet them he punishes you. He doesn't want to, but that is the contract you make for his bringing you into the world.
Cool dude, very reasonable guy. Also not one of the bad Christians that hate sinners. He acknowledges it's not his place to judge
“Contract you make” yeah but name a single person who consented to being born. Also “he punishes you but he doesn’t want to,” sounds like every abuser ever.
Oh totally agree. To play Gods advocate, we are born into contracts in other areas, such as the social contract.
And yeah, it comes off as abusive, but it's also how a parent would see treating a misbehaving child. But most parents don't put their kid in an oven for the rest of eternity for not following the rules
As I was reading that, the "protect and provide" bell kept ringing. But not in the way we keep being told.
I have come to realize that it is women who "protect and provide" in all ways domestic and social. Other than more work and more stress, what do these men provide? What exactly are they protecting, other than their "special place"?
The I have a book doesn't really fly that well anymore.
No one is made to be anything. We grow and find that which calls to us. And what a terrible version of God this dude follows. Either do the dishes, little lady, or suffer in H-E-Double Hockey Stick
I get what they mean though. Men often just aren’t raised (by their parents and by society) the way women are. They don’t have the same pressures as women do. It’s why the cycle continues of mediocre men raising mediocre men. That doesn’t have anything to do with getting married though. It’s not like marriage flips the “mediocrity switch.”
Why does all tradwife rhetoric sound like a cry for help with their head up their own ass hiding behind religion as the excuse? No one wants to be placed, then saying what place it is, and then denying it was ever any other way because some old fart is in a book.
Not staying together in an unhappy relationship is the adult responsible thing to do. I don't feel like people get enough support for leaving unhealthy relationships, there's so much unnecessary stigma that it litterally traps people. It sucks that this person feels like they have a life sentence.
God's got nothing to do with this, it's the reason why patriarchy and later capitalism both hinge on exploiting women's unpaid labor to function. I'd bet their little "shut up and cook hubby a pot roast and let the men folk do the thinking" method of marital harmony wouldn't be as acceptable if women were allowed to read, study, vote etc from the beginning, like men were
The weird thing is if you brought a devout Christian woman from 500 years ago to the present, she'd be incredibly confused by the idea that she's just supposed to stay home and cook. In fact, she might even think it's directly un-Christian. In her time, as for most of history, women have been producers alongside men. Women cooked food, brewed alcohol, worked out in the fields, tended to animals, practiced medicine, and sewed every piece of fabric you'd ever see, from clothes to towels. If anything, this was their "role", not some bs housewife chores.
Ah yes, the old entitled viewpoint that men are the center of the world and you're just there to be his servant and take care of his needs that he can't be bothered with while he lives his life. F*** that. That person would only make useful kindling and that's about it.
I decided, at age six, that God doesn't exist and that religion is a human construct. (A "made-up story," as I phrased it then.) No one "indoctrinated" me into bucking my family's Catholicism. I merely looked at the world around me and how people behaved, plus I read a lot of history as a child. I'm aghast that in the 21st Century, billions of my fellow humans still believe in supernatural beings.
Believing in supernatural beings is one thing. But believing that you yourself know for sure exactly how such a being operates, what they want, and their rules for humanity, is quite egomaniacal if you ask me.
I'm an early 40yo guy, been married for 16 years (with my wife for 19 years). For the purple poster's original comment, the burden of homemaking still falls to women in too many marriages. That being said, I am very thankful to have had great examples of men who were involved and actively engaged in their household as a child. My friend group and those my wife and I are around mirror our situation as well and I have seen a lot more Millennial husbands/fathers be increasingly engaged in their homes.
A quick snapshot of our house. Both my wife (also early 40s) and I work outside the home. We have two kids. We share the household duties; I tend to cook 90% of the time and I'm a "clean while I cook" kind of person. It leaves minimal dishes after and we both toss them into the dishwasher together. Our kids remove dishes from the dishwasher as part of their chores. Laundry is a shared experience. Typically she'll start a load and I'll put it in the dryer and fold it when it comes out. For our kids' laundry, they are in charge of folding and putting it away now (11 and 7). Doctors/dentists - we share that as well. I work at a Director level and am basically "on call" to answer questions all day, however my schedule is slightly more flexible than hers as she is a teacher. I tend to take our kids to the doctor/dentist and set their next appointment. Our oldest has some additional medical needs that we are BOTH a part of. None of this approach where "Only mom knows the child's medical needs." For school, since my wife works there, she is the primary in terms of relationships with their teachers because they are also her coworkers.
Seeing from purple that
he does a little bit here and there, but at the end of the day this is the inevitable end result of marriage
it feels so defeatist and just accepting a sad situation.
And then you have Mr. Blue here who is spouting off an even more horrible take.
I'm confused. If you love your partner and believe yourself to be in a happy marriage, why would you regret that? Surely whatever issues she's citing are issues with the relationship, itself, and not with the piece of paper that lets you file joint tax returns.
Funny, I am married for like 6.5 years, we share housework and he does all the cooking, as I hate it, I just do the dishes... being married is not 50/50, divource is. Being married is 100/100. We both give it our all. And helping is not the same as placating a man-child.
Bitch, what about MY goals and dreams? Life doesn’t check to see if you have a penis before giving you passions and dreams, jfc. They really truly don’t see us as equal people to them.
Why do people think it's a foreign fucking concept that you can be BOTH the homemaker and the breadwinner? It doesn't have to be that black and white!!!
Could someone be so kind to also put it into not how guys work, cause „we are not able to provide for ourself“
Maybe also a not how people work subreddit would be helpfull
Holy unhingedness Batman! (Yes, I did I type that. And yes, I also hit the post button)
It’s always somewhat funny to me when “Christians” like this post this kind of shit.
Because it’s the kind of shit they’ll say is because “Jesus died for our sins” or sumn so we need to live by the Bible whether you believe in it or not or you’ll go to hell. If Jesus died for our sins, wouldn’t that include the ones we “commit” now, so everyone who isn’t a completely evil fuck up of a person can go to heaven?
Also, another thing that makes me laugh when I think about it is; Catholics (at least in Europe it’s Catholics, don’t know what holidays the us/unhinged Christians have) celebrate “Mariä Empfängnis” on 8th of December, which is essentially the day a woman got laid and pregnant out of wedlock. And then, like 16 days later (almost) everyone celebrates the birth of that same child, which should be in August but because they took the day from the pagans Christmas is in fucking December and everyone who celebrates 8th of Dec goes along with a 16 day pregnancy lol.
Edit: not Catholic, but had that conversation recently on the 8th with someone, because I grew up Protestant and do not get the metric fuckton of holidays Catholics have 🙃
Again: not catholic, largely just confused at the logic at this point
December 8 is the feast of the Immaculate Conception. It’s the celebration of Mary being conceived without original sin. It’s a holy day of obligation for Catholics. It isn’t the conception of Jesus. I went to catholic kindergarten, grade school, and high school, and my parents and grandparents were super Catholic, so even though I haven’t practiced for years, I still remember all this stuff.
The 8th is (according to my calendar) the Immaculate Conception in English. That's when Mary was supposed to be conceived, not Jesus. The Annunciation, which celebrates Gabriel telling Mary she's going to have a son, is in March.
According to ancient tradition, people would die on the that they were conceived. Since Jesus is said to have died at/on/around Passover (which happens in the spring), that gave ancient religious scholars a "good reason" to put the birth in the middle of winter.
But Mary wasn’t conceived via immaculate conception, that one was Jesus, so neither of these make sense… also, “Christmas” was originally a literal pagan holiday (Yule iirc) with pagan traditions that were co-opted by Christians so there’s that.
Like the tree for example.
Yes, Christmas is a syncretic celebration derived from Yule, Saturnalia, and other celebrations around the winter solstice. No, the immaculate conception was not Jesus, it was Mary. It was to prepare her to be the perfect vessel to carry the baby Jesus. It seems you skipped a bit of the story.
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones.
We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning.
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It makes me so sad that even in 2025 this person thinks that men have “better things to do than washing dishes or vacuuming”, but women don’t. More women are literally graduating from medical school (and even applying to med school) than men (my med school class was something like 57 women and 43 men), and this is true for many other post secondary degrees as well- but men still are seen as having more legitimate ambitions than women. I hate it so much.
And you just know his big ambition is making it big by gambling on crypto or something.
Exactly.
The majority of men with this mindset are not doing anything that would prevent them from sharing the duties around the house. They work normal jobs, if they work at all. If they really want to stretch their Weaponized Incompetence, weekends exist.
This is just an excuse to not do chores and maintain the house that they live in.
I'm 2nd gen fem. Med daughter got a s**t ton of education and expects ambition. Her firefighter/EMT husband is playing catch up.
“Goals and dreams to achieve? That’s for boys!”
It’s really sad that the first commentator genuinely thinks her mediocre marriage is inevitable
The text has "us" and then "they," so I'm not at all positive that it isn't a man posting their stereotypical rottage on this (religious) point to justify our "moral subjugation."
I was talking about the first one in purple not the blue guy. That’s 100% a guy and a bad one at that. Obv there’s a good chance “I’m a woman” is lying. But it’s a very realistic self defeating pov of someone who’s so good at managing their expectations that they don’t have any.
Yes.. I was adding to the conversation about the messages when taken as a whole - the whole feeling of "something's rotten in Denmark," as it were.
Oh! That makes sense. I was specifically talking about the first comment by itself so I didn’t get your analysis.
It mostly is. Seems like finding a decent guy is like looking for a unicorn these days. Just makes me extra grateful to have one I've been with for decades. Seems like the younger people are all turning to the manosphere, which will turn them into incels :(
"you will do as he commands or suffer eternal punishment"
Such love, such mercy, such benevolence.
Why do they always portray their god in the evilest possible way and then get mad that people don't want to follow their fucked up religion?
Remember that that line - “you will do as he commands or suffer eternal punishment” - doesn’t come from Jesus, but the Apostle Paul, who was forcefully converted by God decades after Jesus’s death.
Paul was also an unmarried man who relied on the charity of churches he went visited to support his work and got arrested and escaped frequently from prison.
Christians follow the words of Paul more much often than Jesus Christ, they should be labeled Paulians.
Absolutely they are Paulians.
Maneki, you might be interested in listening to Dr. Dan McClellan. He's a biblical scholar and not a theologian. His tag-line is Data > Dogma
A good portion of the works ascribed to Paul were forgeries, written after his death.
I think the real jesus would be aghast at what his legacy has turned into, tbh
Yeah, I think he’d usher in his Wrath from Revelations upon seeing just how insanely corrupt his churches and houses of prayer have become.
Flipping over tables in the temple isn’t gonna cut it!
There’s no love like Christian hate
I thought it was the other way around: “there’s no hate like Christian love”
You might be right. I think it might be interchangeable.
The Bible also says that it's totally cool to live a single life if you feel called to it. There's nothing in the Bible that says "women must vacuum the carpet and be a bangmaid for a man who has 'more important things to do than take care of his own house' or burn in hell".
So, I have a very religious coworker and I actually asked why fear was a good reason to worship God. He said it wasn't about the fear itself, but that it's a way to acknowledge the extreme power of God. He does love all of us, but he has standards and if you don't meet them he punishes you. He doesn't want to, but that is the contract you make for his bringing you into the world.
Cool dude, very reasonable guy. Also not one of the bad Christians that hate sinners. He acknowledges it's not his place to judge
“Contract you make” yeah but name a single person who consented to being born. Also “he punishes you but he doesn’t want to,” sounds like every abuser ever.
Oh totally agree. To play Gods advocate, we are born into contracts in other areas, such as the social contract.
And yeah, it comes off as abusive, but it's also how a parent would see treating a misbehaving child. But most parents don't put their kid in an oven for the rest of eternity for not following the rules
Apparently, women dont have goals and dreams to achieve
god with a rolled up newspaper: no, bad woman. no dreams. drop it.
What motherloving forum was this on?
In the comments of a meme about marriage, asking whether it's good or not etc
Very interested in which sub it was in
As I was reading that, the "protect and provide" bell kept ringing. But not in the way we keep being told.
I have come to realize that it is women who "protect and provide" in all ways domestic and social. Other than more work and more stress, what do these men provide? What exactly are they protecting, other than their "special place"?
The I have a book doesn't really fly that well anymore.
No one is made to be anything. We grow and find that which calls to us. And what a terrible version of God this dude follows. Either do the dishes, little lady, or suffer in H-E-Double Hockey Stick
No, women are not naturally or divinely designated helpers. It's all social conditioning.
I’ll take the eternal punishment if it comes with freedom, equality and autonomy, please.
The original comment is bad enough. There is nothing about being male that makes you incapable of cleaning a house.
I get what they mean though. Men often just aren’t raised (by their parents and by society) the way women are. They don’t have the same pressures as women do. It’s why the cycle continues of mediocre men raising mediocre men. That doesn’t have anything to do with getting married though. It’s not like marriage flips the “mediocrity switch.”
Oh I certainly agree that this is often the case. That’s a structural and cultural problem. But it is not some kind of biological certainty.
All of these tradwife people need to just admit that they have a dominance and submission fetish and stop pretending this is normal.
Why does all tradwife rhetoric sound like a cry for help with their head up their own ass hiding behind religion as the excuse? No one wants to be placed, then saying what place it is, and then denying it was ever any other way because some old fart is in a book.
Not staying together in an unhappy relationship is the adult responsible thing to do. I don't feel like people get enough support for leaving unhealthy relationships, there's so much unnecessary stigma that it litterally traps people. It sucks that this person feels like they have a life sentence.
“Men has dreams to achieve, fk women. Women must obey and submit, fk women. Your opinion doesn’t matter, fk women.”
Sincerely, Losers who are so desperate to be better or above women that they have to make 💩 up.
God's got nothing to do with this, it's the reason why patriarchy and later capitalism both hinge on exploiting women's unpaid labor to function. I'd bet their little "shut up and cook hubby a pot roast and let the men folk do the thinking" method of marital harmony wouldn't be as acceptable if women were allowed to read, study, vote etc from the beginning, like men were
The weird thing is if you brought a devout Christian woman from 500 years ago to the present, she'd be incredibly confused by the idea that she's just supposed to stay home and cook. In fact, she might even think it's directly un-Christian. In her time, as for most of history, women have been producers alongside men. Women cooked food, brewed alcohol, worked out in the fields, tended to animals, practiced medicine, and sewed every piece of fabric you'd ever see, from clothes to towels. If anything, this was their "role", not some bs housewife chores.
I knew it was going to get worse the minute he referred to god as "His" to emphasize his god is a man.
You are always supposed to capitalize the pronouns when referring to the Almighty/Christ
Ah yes, the old entitled viewpoint that men are the center of the world and you're just there to be his servant and take care of his needs that he can't be bothered with while he lives his life. F*** that. That person would only make useful kindling and that's about it.
I cannot wait for natural selection to start kicking men like him in the ass in the coming years
How dare women have goals and dreams!!! That is only for men!!
I have better things to do than housework and I'm not giving up my goals and dreams to wash dishes.
This is the culture that men are being taught. Women are nothing more than “helpmeets”.
Religion is awful.
It truly is.
I decided, at age six, that God doesn't exist and that religion is a human construct. (A "made-up story," as I phrased it then.) No one "indoctrinated" me into bucking my family's Catholicism. I merely looked at the world around me and how people behaved, plus I read a lot of history as a child. I'm aghast that in the 21st Century, billions of my fellow humans still believe in supernatural beings.
Believing in supernatural beings is one thing. But believing that you yourself know for sure exactly how such a being operates, what they want, and their rules for humanity, is quite egomaniacal if you ask me.
Both of these commenters are sad, in my opinion.
I'm an early 40yo guy, been married for 16 years (with my wife for 19 years). For the purple poster's original comment, the burden of homemaking still falls to women in too many marriages. That being said, I am very thankful to have had great examples of men who were involved and actively engaged in their household as a child. My friend group and those my wife and I are around mirror our situation as well and I have seen a lot more Millennial husbands/fathers be increasingly engaged in their homes.
A quick snapshot of our house. Both my wife (also early 40s) and I work outside the home. We have two kids. We share the household duties; I tend to cook 90% of the time and I'm a "clean while I cook" kind of person. It leaves minimal dishes after and we both toss them into the dishwasher together. Our kids remove dishes from the dishwasher as part of their chores. Laundry is a shared experience. Typically she'll start a load and I'll put it in the dryer and fold it when it comes out. For our kids' laundry, they are in charge of folding and putting it away now (11 and 7). Doctors/dentists - we share that as well. I work at a Director level and am basically "on call" to answer questions all day, however my schedule is slightly more flexible than hers as she is a teacher. I tend to take our kids to the doctor/dentist and set their next appointment. Our oldest has some additional medical needs that we are BOTH a part of. None of this approach where "Only mom knows the child's medical needs." For school, since my wife works there, she is the primary in terms of relationships with their teachers because they are also her coworkers.
Seeing from purple that
it feels so defeatist and just accepting a sad situation.
And then you have Mr. Blue here who is spouting off an even more horrible take.
Stuck out as really sad to me, too. She does not sound as happy as she initially states she is. She just sounds resigned.
It is only the inevitable outcome if you allow it to be. Expect more of your partner. Don't settle for being less than equal.
One thing I'm not gonna do is play supporting character to a man. My husband is my biggest fan and supports every amibition I have.
I'm confused. If you love your partner and believe yourself to be in a happy marriage, why would you regret that? Surely whatever issues she's citing are issues with the relationship, itself, and not with the piece of paper that lets you file joint tax returns.
Counterpoint, God isn't real
The photo is hard AF to read on mobile.
Funny, I am married for like 6.5 years, we share housework and he does all the cooking, as I hate it, I just do the dishes... being married is not 50/50, divource is. Being married is 100/100. We both give it our all. And helping is not the same as placating a man-child.
Bitch, what about MY goals and dreams? Life doesn’t check to see if you have a penis before giving you passions and dreams, jfc. They really truly don’t see us as equal people to them.
If only they knew what the original Hebrew word meant. 😂
Why do people think it's a foreign fucking concept that you can be BOTH the homemaker and the breadwinner? It doesn't have to be that black and white!!!
as a child in a dual income household, that concept in the title is kinda wrong
Could someone be so kind to also put it into not how guys work, cause „we are not able to provide for ourself“
Maybe also a not how people work subreddit would be helpfull
Bible thumping evangelical. Even if he isn’t now he probably was raised that way.
Holy unhingedness Batman! (Yes, I did I type that. And yes, I also hit the post button) It’s always somewhat funny to me when “Christians” like this post this kind of shit.
Because it’s the kind of shit they’ll say is because “Jesus died for our sins” or sumn so we need to live by the Bible whether you believe in it or not or you’ll go to hell. If Jesus died for our sins, wouldn’t that include the ones we “commit” now, so everyone who isn’t a completely evil fuck up of a person can go to heaven?
Also, another thing that makes me laugh when I think about it is; Catholics (at least in Europe it’s Catholics, don’t know what holidays the us/unhinged Christians have) celebrate “Mariä Empfängnis” on 8th of December, which is essentially the day a woman got laid and pregnant out of wedlock. And then, like 16 days later (almost) everyone celebrates the birth of that same child, which should be in August but because they took the day from the pagans Christmas is in fucking December and everyone who celebrates 8th of Dec goes along with a 16 day pregnancy lol.
Edit: not Catholic, but had that conversation recently on the 8th with someone, because I grew up Protestant and do not get the metric fuckton of holidays Catholics have 🙃 Again: not catholic, largely just confused at the logic at this point
December 8 is the feast of the Immaculate Conception. It’s the celebration of Mary being conceived without original sin. It’s a holy day of obligation for Catholics. It isn’t the conception of Jesus. I went to catholic kindergarten, grade school, and high school, and my parents and grandparents were super Catholic, so even though I haven’t practiced for years, I still remember all this stuff.
The 8th is (according to my calendar) the Immaculate Conception in English. That's when Mary was supposed to be conceived, not Jesus. The Annunciation, which celebrates Gabriel telling Mary she's going to have a son, is in March.
According to ancient tradition, people would die on the that they were conceived. Since Jesus is said to have died at/on/around Passover (which happens in the spring), that gave ancient religious scholars a "good reason" to put the birth in the middle of winter.
TLDR: nobody celebrates a 16 day pregnancy.
But Mary wasn’t conceived via immaculate conception, that one was Jesus, so neither of these make sense… also, “Christmas” was originally a literal pagan holiday (Yule iirc) with pagan traditions that were co-opted by Christians so there’s that. Like the tree for example.
You don't have to believe it if you're not Catholic, but yes she was.
I’m not and I don’t, atp I’m just confused by this holiday and its background
Yes, Christmas is a syncretic celebration derived from Yule, Saturnalia, and other celebrations around the winter solstice. No, the immaculate conception was not Jesus, it was Mary. It was to prepare her to be the perfect vessel to carry the baby Jesus. It seems you skipped a bit of the story.