Their intervention in Ex-Yu is probably the most successful operation ever carried, they managed to prop my people up into a free and democratic society.
Yeah okay i know there was a suprising amount of NATO forces accidentally hitting civillian targets, but the intervention there gotta be one of the most basedest there has ever been. Ended one genocide, prevented another. Securing peace till today.
Serbians and for some reason some fringe leftists who claim poor old Milošević was only bombed because he was socialist. God forbid socialist countries have hobbies (like genociding minorities)
✅ Start from the axiom that Western power is Bad and Wrong
✅ If the West wants to stop faraway atrocities, that must be Wrong, probably Western propaganda
✅ Therefore Milošević / Assad / Gaddafi / Hussein / Khmer Rouge / the Ayatollahs must be OK
✅ You don't have to actually care about the oppressed masses in a different country. You can just make up a story if you want, use them as a token. I saw a "Hands Off Syria" rally in London where they hired security staff to prevent any actual Syrians getting near the microphone.
✅ As a corollary, Chomskyism only requires you to deny atrocities if they are covered in mainstream media - you can forget about it when the news stories end. Denying historic atrocities is a fundamentally different nationalist thing. And Chomskyists with access to different media have to deny different atrocities; for instance there are a few French lefties who deny the Rwanda genocide, but not American lefties, because CNN wasn't saying much about intervention to stop that particular genocide.
You can always spot them in conversations as well because they rarely want to talk about actual leftist politics and would much rather just discuss how to dismantle Nato and the West entirely. Then when you ask them what kind of ideas they have for improving Leftism in the EU/US they just kind of seize up because it was only ever a team sport for them and they're just rooting for anyone who can fuck up the team they hate.
You people are like clockwork. You realise most Americans probably don’t even know about the NATO intervention at all, let alone that one specific aircraft got shot down?
Also, obligatory “Keep coping, you can’t un-bomb Belgrade”.
The bombs were indeed dropped before the shoot down as it was the bomb doors opening to drop the bomb that allowed them to get the lock on in the first place.
Except that wasn't the case. It was sheer luck that the Serbs were using VHF search radars that could easily see stealth aircraft (they still can, but you can't use them for the shooting part), the jamming aircraft weren't present and the F-117 was close enough to the SAM battery that the tracking radar could see it, too. Just a perfect storm.
The bomb bay doors would be open for half a second, tops. In that time, the SAM would have to see the target, identify what it is, take aim and hold that aim until the missile hits. That's never gonna happen in half a second.
It wasn't luck they were using vhf. The commander had ordered its use based on (turns out correct) speculation on how stealth technology worked. He also was in charge of the radar unit that spotted the craft. He set up based on full knowledge of the flight path regularly taken, and had his radar unit operating longer than he had ordered the rest of his unit to allow. He knew he had all the parts to get a target lock
F-117 was also picked up by the P-18 at ~20-24km. Go look up average detection range for F-15 sized target on the P-18. Even in very low frequencys it still struggled, it also shows that F-117 was optimized for more than just X-band radars (another myth). It took until about 8-12km for the SA-3 to acquire lock.
The F-117 was basically right on top of the SAM. Like no shit they saw it.
It was right on top of the SAM because they knew the flight path. It was a huge mistake on the part of the US to continually use the same flight path for days.
Yes they were, that's how they managed to shoot it down in fact as far as I remember, the Serbs happened to turn the radar on while the bomb bays were still open, which breaks stealth.
"He was headed for a "heavily defended" target in the Serbian capital of Belgrade, which was protected by an advanced, Russian-made integrated air defense system."
"His S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile command was nearly 40 years out of date by then"
the article needs to make up its mind, was it advanced or out of date?
If Russia hadn't made any AA system by the time said incident happened then the S-125 would both be advanced AND out of date. But if Russia had made a successor by then, then the article would be contradicting itself
most air defense systems that are used in Ukraine right now are even more than 40 years old, so for 1990's S-125 really wasnt ''outdated'' it was more or less the standard what most armies that didnt have top of the line weapons had. Even Soviet union still relied on S-125 in 1991 even in front-line units
Before I saw it in a video I literally NEVER heard about it. Nobody outside the airforce gives a shit about it being shot down, and even the most probably don't. We lost like 3 planes to people being morons during peacetime in the past decade. Losing 1 in combat is expensive but expected to eventually happen
Is there anything more NATO than having your greatest hardware losses be due to incompetent idiots? I can't wait to see how many F-35s we drop off the QEs. (This joke would be funnier if the royal navy still mattered.... I'm going to go cry in front of my picture of Lord Nelson now)
A. If anyone is stuck on that it's the serbs, they have a whole damn museum dedicated to it
B. I personally celebrate it as the most lucky/impressive air defense shot ever made. It deserves to be remembered.
When the only thing your countries‘ nationalists keep bringing up to establish the glory of their own nation is that they once, with their enemies‘ pure carelessness, with advantaged knowledge and a fully unprotected open sky managed to get a single lucky shot on a single plane, which while absolutely trying their best, they could never replicate, that‘s a sad fucking type of nationalism
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UN and the Danish politicians back home be like: "Wait, you aren't supposed to defend yourself with live ammunition! This is outrageous!"
Hell, there was a Japanese mecha anime where it starts with a Japanese UN gundam force being wiped out because they weren't authorized to defend themselves against a insurgency rolling with cold war era vehicles, ATGMs and RPGs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHoCPtWaCtw
I'll have to read it up again. I thought there was controversy in Denmark over if a particular Danish commander gave the order to open fire (and the commander denied that they did so), or if the soldiers just lit up the shooting Serbians on their own. Or I might be mixing that with another operation.
The main "controversy" has been some dispute from other soldiers about what actually happened and has been up for some debate about what orders were given and such, but not from the governments side. In general the danish government has been quite supportive of what the armed forces has been doing in their deployments, of course done investigations if they felt there was a need juat to be sure.
There was for example some publicised footage from a trench storm made by danish forces in Afghanistan, where they are seen taking out taliban soldiers at extreme close quarters and killing wounded taliban soldiers during the active trench clearing. The involved soldiers were cleared of any wrongdoing as the investigation deemed that the soldiers were in their right taking out seemingly wounded taliban soldiers as they during the fighting were still able to fight back.
I am sorry but out of all places where one SHOULD finish wounded enemy combatants, Afghanistan along with whole Middle East is easily 1st place with no competition. Taking any chances against fighters known to wear suicide vests and going off with a glee, thats just stupid hazard. Shoot first, dont ask later moment imho.
Strikes were in 1999, after Serbs picked a fight with majority of ex-Yugoslavia and lost. Lost so fucking hard, that US actually threatened ArBiH and HV with bombing in 1995, lest they drive on to Banja Luka, and having a proper country instead of this monstrous Bosnia and Herzegovina. Putting aside NATO and UN were about as useful as a dick that had a close encounter with a circular saw for the period of 1991-1995, lest we forget Srebrenica.
It was the Croatian Army that lifted the Siege of Bihać, relieving ArBiH and preventing another massacre, even larger then what Srebrenica was. Dugo smo vas čekali, the Muslim said to the Catholic, as they shook hands. And then that saxophone playing fucker ruined it all, stopping ArBiH and HV excising the cancer that infests BiH to this fucking day.
As a few people have already pointed out, I accidentally wrote 1991 instead of 1999. The UN interventions and NATO bombings happened during the Kosovo war, not the breakup of Yugoslavia
B52 is just the ultimate payload truck for areas where you have air superiority already relatively cheap to fly compared to the alternative a stealth bomber of some sort and it carries more payload
And when things go boom, it looks fucking fantastic. Like a fireworks show, I remember that vid where a b-52 carpet bombed I think it was isis and the Iraqi Generals face was priceless. As much as I dislike the yank‘s current government. They know how to make a statement.
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Based NATO, forever thankful to them.
Their intervention in Ex-Yu is probably the most successful operation ever carried, they managed to prop my people up into a free and democratic society.
Yeah okay i know there was a suprising amount of NATO forces accidentally hitting civillian targets, but the intervention there gotta be one of the most basedest there has ever been. Ended one genocide, prevented another. Securing peace till today.
Serbians eternally salty to this day that they had to stop genociding
Some are, most younger people though just want to move past it.
Serbians and for some reason some fringe leftists who claim poor old Milošević was only bombed because he was socialist. God forbid socialist countries have hobbies (like genociding minorities)
It's basically Chomskyism:
✅ Start from the axiom that Western power is Bad and Wrong
✅ If the West wants to stop faraway atrocities, that must be Wrong, probably Western propaganda
✅ Therefore Milošević / Assad / Gaddafi / Hussein / Khmer Rouge / the Ayatollahs must be OK
✅ You don't have to actually care about the oppressed masses in a different country. You can just make up a story if you want, use them as a token. I saw a "Hands Off Syria" rally in London where they hired security staff to prevent any actual Syrians getting near the microphone.
✅ As a corollary, Chomskyism only requires you to deny atrocities if they are covered in mainstream media - you can forget about it when the news stories end. Denying historic atrocities is a fundamentally different nationalist thing. And Chomskyists with access to different media have to deny different atrocities; for instance there are a few French lefties who deny the Rwanda genocide, but not American lefties, because CNN wasn't saying much about intervention to stop that particular genocide.
Spot on actually.
You can always spot them in conversations as well because they rarely want to talk about actual leftist politics and would much rather just discuss how to dismantle Nato and the West entirely. Then when you ask them what kind of ideas they have for improving Leftism in the EU/US they just kind of seize up because it was only ever a team sport for them and they're just rooting for anyone who can fuck up the team they hate.
and Ameris eternally salty about that one single AA kill.
Edit: all the "we don't even care" comments show you care immensely, keep serthing, ameribros.
One aircraft for ending a genocide? I'd say that's a good trade.
"I don't blame you, Damn good deal!!!"
You people are like clockwork. You realise most Americans probably don’t even know about the NATO intervention at all, let alone that one specific aircraft got shot down?
Also, obligatory “Keep coping, you can’t un-bomb Belgrade”.
hey, the discount Russkies deserved it, but y'all can't unkill that tiptop stealth plane either.
Can't un-bomb Belgrade
I wish they bombed it more.
Based but I will downvote you anyway because it's funny
oh no, we lost our cool stealth plane. we've only got 63 left now
https://en.meming.world/images/en/thumb/3/3c/Squidward%27s_Clock_Closet_2_panel.jpg/300px-Squidward%27s_Clock_Closet_2_panel.jpg
Unlike Serbia we have the ability to build modern military equipment instead of having to buy it second- or third-hand.
The B-2 flew in this war.
The F-117 was already obsolete by this time.
Yeah, but the F-117 is prettier
What tiptop stealth plane?
Bro, the 117 was already outdated when it got shot down, the US was already making new ones,
1 plane out of literal thousands of sorties. I'd say that is a pretty damn good loss rate.
You mean the "tiptop stealth plane" that was already obsolete at the time?
To this day the most expensive thing in serbia
Congrats, you delayed the bombings by an hour tops.
Bombs were dropped before the shootdown, dont quote me on that as my source is Lazerpig video, I love him but am also too lazy to check it myself
The bombs were indeed dropped before the shoot down as it was the bomb doors opening to drop the bomb that allowed them to get the lock on in the first place.
Nice how using basic logic can end argument and no sources are needed
As long as the logic actually holds. Gotta be careful of that.
Except that wasn't the case. It was sheer luck that the Serbs were using VHF search radars that could easily see stealth aircraft (they still can, but you can't use them for the shooting part), the jamming aircraft weren't present and the F-117 was close enough to the SAM battery that the tracking radar could see it, too. Just a perfect storm.
The bomb bay doors would be open for half a second, tops. In that time, the SAM would have to see the target, identify what it is, take aim and hold that aim until the missile hits. That's never gonna happen in half a second.
It wasn't luck they were using vhf. The commander had ordered its use based on (turns out correct) speculation on how stealth technology worked. He also was in charge of the radar unit that spotted the craft. He set up based on full knowledge of the flight path regularly taken, and had his radar unit operating longer than he had ordered the rest of his unit to allow. He knew he had all the parts to get a target lock
F-117 was also picked up by the P-18 at ~20-24km. Go look up average detection range for F-15 sized target on the P-18. Even in very low frequencys it still struggled, it also shows that F-117 was optimized for more than just X-band radars (another myth). It took until about 8-12km for the SA-3 to acquire lock.
The F-117 was basically right on top of the SAM. Like no shit they saw it.
It was right on top of the SAM because they knew the flight path. It was a huge mistake on the part of the US to continually use the same flight path for days.
Yes they were, that's how they managed to shoot it down in fact as far as I remember, the Serbs happened to turn the radar on while the bomb bays were still open, which breaks stealth.
I’m not salty; I’m impressed. The pilot was too.
https://www.military.com/military-life/how-air-force-pilot-became-friends-man-who-shot-down-his-f-117.html
"He was headed for a "heavily defended" target in the Serbian capital of Belgrade, which was protected by an advanced, Russian-made integrated air defense system."
"His S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile command was nearly 40 years out of date by then"
the article needs to make up its mind, was it advanced or out of date?
The system in Belgrade could be advanced even if the one system that shot him down wasnt
If Russia hadn't made any AA system by the time said incident happened then the S-125 would both be advanced AND out of date. But if Russia had made a successor by then, then the article would be contradicting itself
most air defense systems that are used in Ukraine right now are even more than 40 years old, so for 1990's S-125 really wasnt ''outdated'' it was more or less the standard what most armies that didnt have top of the line weapons had. Even Soviet union still relied on S-125 in 1991 even in front-line units
Lol not even we just think it's funny that one AA kill is the peak of your military history
and it wasn't even a serbian who did it lol
Before I saw it in a video I literally NEVER heard about it. Nobody outside the airforce gives a shit about it being shot down, and even the most probably don't. We lost like 3 planes to people being morons during peacetime in the past decade. Losing 1 in combat is expensive but expected to eventually happen
Edit: 2 in the last year
We lost two of them this year alone due to people being fuckups
Is there anything more NATO than having your greatest hardware losses be due to incompetent idiots? I can't wait to see how many F-35s we drop off the QEs. (This joke would be funnier if the royal navy still mattered.... I'm going to go cry in front of my picture of Lord Nelson now)
To be fair, the past two years has felt like a decade in terms of stuff happening
Lord Poseidon craves the F/A-18. Who are we to deny his insatiable appetite?
We love feeding the ocean hornets.
Dude I'm not salty at all, that was good work, and demonstrated to us the importance of not getting complacent.
I actually kind of want one of those "SORRY WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS INVISIBLE" shirts.
The only people who constantly bring that one up are Serbians
You way inflate how much anyone cares about that.
Although all the replies and downvotes say otherwise. Not saying I agree, just an observation
A. If anyone is stuck on that it's the serbs, they have a whole damn museum dedicated to it B. I personally celebrate it as the most lucky/impressive air defense shot ever made. It deserves to be remembered.
Mate... The average westerner, let alone the average American, doesn't even know about the night hawk shoot down.
Not at all
I'd be content losing the entire air force to stop a genocide, personally.
I'd be content losing all our planes if it stopped a genocide, personally.
When the only thing your countries‘ nationalists keep bringing up to establish the glory of their own nation is that they once, with their enemies‘ pure carelessness, with advantaged knowledge and a fully unprotected open sky managed to get a single lucky shot on a single plane, which while absolutely trying their best, they could never replicate, that‘s a sad fucking type of nationalism
Nationalism in itself is a sad fucking type of ideology
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NATO je bog.
Try for 2 next time.
oh look a serbitard in the wild
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Normally not the biggest fan of any geopolitical alliances but stopping genocide is a based and good reason to go full-send and intervene.
My family helped shelter and welcome Kosovar refugees from this back in the day, totally not biased.
NORDBAT did nothing wrong with Op Bollebank.
Nothing wrong with changing ROE if it saves lives, especially if its done as proactive humanitarian effort. Shoot-back
UN and the Danish politicians back home be like: "Wait, you aren't supposed to defend yourself with live ammunition! This is outrageous!"
Hell, there was a Japanese mecha anime where it starts with a Japanese UN gundam force being wiped out because they weren't authorized to defend themselves against a insurgency rolling with cold war era vehicles, ATGMs and RPGs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHoCPtWaCtw
The danish government and public thought it was neat and it is still celebrated
I'll have to read it up again. I thought there was controversy in Denmark over if a particular Danish commander gave the order to open fire (and the commander denied that they did so), or if the soldiers just lit up the shooting Serbians on their own. Or I might be mixing that with another operation.
The main "controversy" has been some dispute from other soldiers about what actually happened and has been up for some debate about what orders were given and such, but not from the governments side. In general the danish government has been quite supportive of what the armed forces has been doing in their deployments, of course done investigations if they felt there was a need juat to be sure.
There was for example some publicised footage from a trench storm made by danish forces in Afghanistan, where they are seen taking out taliban soldiers at extreme close quarters and killing wounded taliban soldiers during the active trench clearing. The involved soldiers were cleared of any wrongdoing as the investigation deemed that the soldiers were in their right taking out seemingly wounded taliban soldiers as they during the fighting were still able to fight back.
I am sorry but out of all places where one SHOULD finish wounded enemy combatants, Afghanistan along with whole Middle East is easily 1st place with no competition. Taking any chances against fighters known to wear suicide vests and going off with a glee, thats just stupid hazard. Shoot first, dont ask later moment imho.
Fair. But I would like someone to explain to me why we were there in the first place
Trying to ward off China
Afghanistan was a terrorist haven run by actual terrorists who actually WERE sheltering Bin Laden.
-Name op “Operation Bully Bashing”
-somehow surprised when bullies get bashed
Never change UN. Or better yet, do.
Whelp I definitely need to watch more patlabor. I tried watching the series, but I guess the movies are where it’s really at.
Patlabor 2, by the inimitable Mamoru Oshii. It's very very different than either the original movie or the series.
This from Patlabor 2 is one of my favourite scenes from any movie ever:
https://youtu.be/JnOfNQ9VWo0?si=8BcyXom1hB-NQ6is
Chinese UN troops "I thought you just flee in terror the first time an rpg gets fired at you?"
Shootbat my beloved.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1530781.stm
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-29-me-27493-story.html
The only thing the bombing campaign achieved is to create in the heart of Europe an enclave run by criminal gangs under NATO protection.
I dunno chief, shipping civilian bodies to a secret site to be piled into mass graves sounds like an attempted genocide to me
How many such bodies have been found? The total across all sites is less than the number of civilians that had been killed by NATO bombs.
Incorrect
I hate to use numbers to tell somebody he is wrong but 10000 of dead Kosovians is bigger then 500 of dead Serbs in numbers of civilians.
Man single bad thing about bombing Belgrade is that it stopped
This discussion is over, you have now 28 minutes to withdraw.
That’s not a question, that’s an order.
Based Bundeswehr-Clip ever. Even better than „NAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEELLLLL!“
I found it funny how many people I know were there as UN and then immediately swap hats to NATO.
The UN watched the genocide at first (Shit RoE), NATO then took action to intervene.
Good trade
NATO Stops Genocide
Serbians go to the Hague
Thank you USA You are my best friend.
Helping small Kosova You are the legeeend
This song really hits driving 90mph down the highway to Pristina
Strikes were in 1999, after Serbs picked a fight with majority of ex-Yugoslavia and lost. Lost so fucking hard, that US actually threatened ArBiH and HV with bombing in 1995, lest they drive on to Banja Luka, and having a proper country instead of this monstrous Bosnia and Herzegovina. Putting aside NATO and UN were about as useful as a dick that had a close encounter with a circular saw for the period of 1991-1995, lest we forget Srebrenica.
It was the Croatian Army that lifted the Siege of Bihać, relieving ArBiH and preventing another massacre, even larger then what Srebrenica was. Dugo smo vas čekali, the Muslim said to the Catholic, as they shook hands. And then that saxophone playing fucker ruined it all, stopping ArBiH and HV excising the cancer that infests BiH to this fucking day.
Anyways, it was is '99 when NATO intervened.
On one hand, pretty based that Slick Willy held his proxies to a higher standard and didn't make an Oluja 2.
On the other hand, 🚜 go vroom.
Me when I'm a post-Yugoslav salt contest and I have to find a way to out-jerk the Serbs:
And then Nordbat came and fucked them up a bit too a few years later
The title is wrong. The bombings were in 1999. Nordbats were already over before Srebrenica.
Shootbat my beloved
If I'm a Serbian in 1991 then I abso-fucking-lutely deserve to be bombed.
As a few people have already pointed out, I accidentally wrote 1991 instead of 1999. The UN interventions and NATO bombings happened during the Kosovo war, not the breakup of Yugoslavia
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Thank you NATO 🥰❤️❤️
Serbs hold the record for the second fastest capitulation in modern history.
"you can't spell civillian without villian!" -NATO motto, 1991
F-117! F-117! F-117! F-117! F-117! F-117! F-117! F-117!
Sorry, we didn’t know Belgrade was so bombable.
Serbmissive and Bombable
Classic western mistake. Bomb a country back enough stone ages and it has the opposite effect. Like the monkeys with typewriters.
Can’t see an issue with warheads on foreheads.
Cope all you want, it still won't unbomb Serbia.
The already obsolete stealth plane?
"already" seems a bit weird for something over 40 years old now, especially as the first implementation of a new technology and doctrine.
The b-52 is an exception and I will take no questions on it's status.
B52 is just the ultimate payload truck for areas where you have air superiority already relatively cheap to fly compared to the alternative a stealth bomber of some sort and it carries more payload
And if you haven't got air superiority, just use it to drop missiles that then go on to decorate the enemy nations with funny fungal shaped clouds.
The BUFF is eternal. The M2 Browning of making things explode all the way over there.
And when things go boom, it looks fucking fantastic. Like a fireworks show, I remember that vid where a b-52 carpet bombed I think it was isis and the Iraqi Generals face was priceless. As much as I dislike the yank‘s current government. They know how to make a statement.
He’s saying with was already obsolete by the time it got shot down
It had been in operational use for less than 10 years when it was shot down.
Though I wonder if the OP confused everything about dates by handing the Serbian army a leaflet from 8 years in the future.
The B2 spirit already flew by then, which was the replacement for the F-117
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